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~~Roberto~~ · 09-30-2019, 05:47 AM

(09-30-2019, 05:40 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(09-30-2019, 05:18 AM)Roberto Wrote: Pckts: i had already seen that discussion and i saw that Shadow agrees with me. (For once, lmao).

So why post the exact same article again?

just to remind you that its still a possibility that a huge sloth bear killed that tiger. But like i said before, its not confirmed.

Shadow · 09-30-2019, 09:58 AM

What comes to that tiger possibly killed by a sloth bear. I have time to time tried to find final conclusion by officials, but not yet found it. So for me that is still an open question what killed that tiger. It was said to have been a very big male sloth bear, which was seen there. So unless proven otherwise, it can´t be ruled out to have been the killer of that tiger, imo. Hopefully someone finds more information one day.

Then this tiger P212, it was easier to find some articles. Interesting to see differences in stories :)

http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/3yrold-panna-tiger-under-watch-after-rabid-dog-bites-its-tail/1170597/

This one again talks about one dog and multiple bites. Still majority of articles mention one bite. But what makes this next article interesting is, that in it is said, that this was second time in short period when this tiger P212 was treated by humans. It´s told, that before this incident in Spetember 2013 it was treated in April 2013 with a 2 and half hour surgery to treat a wound it sustained while making a kill. Hopefully, if true, it has made it from subadult to adult though.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bhopal/Rabid-dog-bites-tiger-at-Panna-Tiger-Reserve/articleshow/22664719.cms

Eventhough this person, who wrote this article talks about cub abd baby, this tiger was in age in which it has to make it alone or die. Not quite a baby anymore even though not an adult :)

http://indiasendangered.com/3-year-old-tiger-bitten-by-rabid-dog/

But this case seems to be confirmed now, that no pack of dogs. One dog and unlucky tiger, that it was a rabid dog.

Pckts · 10-01-2019, 03:27 AM

Nikhil Tambekar
"TIGER IN THE MAKING"
Life time sighting... Cant get 'Lucky' enough than this to Shoot the entire sequence of a successful killing of Sloth Bear by the Tiger family (Tigress with her 4 Cubs)
A lesson learning process in itself...
Featuring one of the Telia cubs... Putting all his efforts to Kill the Sloth Bear...

*This image is copyright of its original author

Rishi · 10-01-2019, 07:33 AM

(09-30-2019, 12:15 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(09-29-2019, 09:38 PM)Shadow Wrote:
(09-29-2019, 09:09 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(09-29-2019, 06:17 PM)Shadow Wrote: I noticed by accident more information about one older case, where dogs injured a tiger. Looks like those were stray dogs. In this article was just mentioned wild dogs https://zeenews.india.com/news/eco-news/pack-of-wild-dogs-attack-and-injure-tiger-at-panna-reserve_877236.html

In this article is now said clearly that stray dogs and a bit more information concerning injuries.

Quote:

"On September 10, 2013, a three-year-old tiger, P-212, was attacked by a stray dog near Hinouta range inside Panna Tiger reserve in one of the rarest occurrences.

The tiger was tranquilized and shifted to enclosure following multiple bites on its nose and tail.

Incidents of dogs and wild boars chasing tigers have been reported from other forest areas, too."

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bhopal/now-wild-boars-kill-tiger/articleshow/63590359.cms

Both incidents sound speculative, if a Tiger was killed by a boar it'd show wounds and no stray dog could be anything more than prey for a Tiger, even a 3 year old.

Edut: I found it, P212 was treated for rabies.
Well, wild boars have been reported to kill some tigers in official reports from India and Russia, so nothing special in it. Then again if tiger is treated for rabies, dog bites are for sure a good reason to do so.
I cannot recall a single case of an Indian Boar killing a Tiger nor can I recall a Russian one either, but it'd be more believable with a Russian boar.

This is what I got.. Read the next 5-6 posts too.
https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-tiger-p...6#pid53056

Pckts · 10-01-2019, 07:38 AM

(10-01-2019, 07:33 AM)Rishi Wrote:
(09-30-2019, 12:15 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(09-29-2019, 09:38 PM)Shadow Wrote:
(09-29-2019, 09:09 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(09-29-2019, 06:17 PM)Shadow Wrote: I noticed by accident more information about one older case, where dogs injured a tiger. Looks like those were stray dogs. In this article was just mentioned wild dogs https://zeenews.india.com/news/eco-news/pack-of-wild-dogs-attack-and-injure-tiger-at-panna-reserve_877236.html

In this article is now said clearly that stray dogs and a bit more information concerning injuries.

Quote:

"On September 10, 2013, a three-year-old tiger, P-212, was attacked by a stray dog near Hinouta range inside Panna Tiger reserve in one of the rarest occurrences.

The tiger was tranquilized and shifted to enclosure following multiple bites on its nose and tail.

Incidents of dogs and wild boars chasing tigers have been reported from other forest areas, too."

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bhopal/now-wild-boars-kill-tiger/articleshow/63590359.cms

Both incidents sound speculative, if a Tiger was killed by a boar it'd show wounds and no stray dog could be anything more than prey for a Tiger, even a 3 year old.

Edut: I found it, P212 was treated for rabies.
Well, wild boars have been reported to kill some tigers in official reports from India and Russia, so nothing special in it. Then again if tiger is treated for rabies, dog bites are for sure a good reason to do so.
I cannot recall a single case of an Indian Boar killing a Tiger nor can I recall a Russian one either, but it'd be more believable with a Russian boar.

This is what I got.. Read the next 5-6 posts too.
https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-tiger-p...6#pid53056

It's the same article that was posted in regards to P212
Post #873
Like most TOI articles, evidence is lacking and the claim isn't verified with many questions left unanswered.
Usually seems like poaching or poisoning cover ups over actual animal encounters.

Shadow · 10-01-2019, 09:48 AM

(10-01-2019, 07:38 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(10-01-2019, 07:33 AM)Rishi Wrote:
(09-30-2019, 12:15 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(09-29-2019, 09:38 PM)Shadow Wrote:
(09-29-2019, 09:09 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(09-29-2019, 06:17 PM)Shadow Wrote: I noticed by accident more information about one older case, where dogs injured a tiger. Looks like those were stray dogs. In this article was just mentioned wild dogs https://zeenews.india.com/news/eco-news/pack-of-wild-dogs-attack-and-injure-tiger-at-panna-reserve_877236.html

In this article is now said clearly that stray dogs and a bit more information concerning injuries.

Quote:

"On September 10, 2013, a three-year-old tiger, P-212, was attacked by a stray dog near Hinouta range inside Panna Tiger reserve in one of the rarest occurrences.

The tiger was tranquilized and shifted to enclosure following multiple bites on its nose and tail.

Incidents of dogs and wild boars chasing tigers have been reported from other forest areas, too."

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bhopal/now-wild-boars-kill-tiger/articleshow/63590359.cms

Both incidents sound speculative, if a Tiger was killed by a boar it'd show wounds and no stray dog could be anything more than prey for a Tiger, even a 3 year old.

Edut: I found it, P212 was treated for rabies.
Well, wild boars have been reported to kill some tigers in official reports from India and Russia, so nothing special in it. Then again if tiger is treated for rabies, dog bites are for sure a good reason to do so.
I cannot recall a single case of an Indian Boar killing a Tiger nor can I recall a Russian one either, but it'd be more believable with a Russian boar.

This is what I got.. Read the next 5-6 posts too.
https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-tiger-p...6#pid53056
It's the same article that was posted in regards to P212
Post #873
Like most TOI articles, evidence is lacking and the claim isn't verified with many questions left unanswered.
Usually seems like poaching or poisoning cover ups over actual animal encounters.

Still it has to be remembered, that tigers do get killed by other animals too. It is just so, that sometimes big predators have bad days and things go wrong. I don´t see anything too special in it, that sometimes no other explanation can be found, but for instance wild boar. Tigers just aren´t invulnerable. Big cats can take sometimes huge punishment and survive, sometimes hit/wound comes to wrong spot and they die. Of course if we think about poaching cover ups, do we actually have any evidence, that tigers would have killed even one rhino or elephant as often is claimed.... difficult questions.

But from Russia there are also studies confirming, that wild boars have killed tigers. But what is enough evidence is naturally a question, which everyone have to decide themselves.

Pckts · 10-01-2019, 09:40 PM

(10-01-2019, 09:48 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(10-01-2019, 07:38 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(10-01-2019, 07:33 AM)Rishi Wrote:
(09-30-2019, 12:15 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(09-29-2019, 09:38 PM)Shadow Wrote:
(09-29-2019, 09:09 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(09-29-2019, 06:17 PM)Shadow Wrote: I noticed by accident more information about one older case, where dogs injured a tiger. Looks like those were stray dogs. In this article was just mentioned wild dogs https://zeenews.india.com/news/eco-news/pack-of-wild-dogs-attack-and-injure-tiger-at-panna-reserve_877236.html

In this article is now said clearly that stray dogs and a bit more information concerning injuries.

Quote:

"On September 10, 2013, a three-year-old tiger, P-212, was attacked by a stray dog near Hinouta range inside Panna Tiger reserve in one of the rarest occurrences.

The tiger was tranquilized and shifted to enclosure following multiple bites on its nose and tail.

Incidents of dogs and wild boars chasing tigers have been reported from other forest areas, too."

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bhopal/now-wild-boars-kill-tiger/articleshow/63590359.cms

Both incidents sound speculative, if a Tiger was killed by a boar it'd show wounds and no stray dog could be anything more than prey for a Tiger, even a 3 year old.

Edut: I found it, P212 was treated for rabies.
Well, wild boars have been reported to kill some tigers in official reports from India and Russia, so nothing special in it. Then again if tiger is treated for rabies, dog bites are for sure a good reason to do so.
I cannot recall a single case of an Indian Boar killing a Tiger nor can I recall a Russian one either, but it'd be more believable with a Russian boar.

This is what I got.. Read the next 5-6 posts too.
https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-tiger-p...6#pid53056
It's the same article that was posted in regards to P212
Post #873
Like most TOI articles, evidence is lacking and the claim isn't verified with many questions left unanswered.
Usually seems like poaching or poisoning cover ups over actual animal encounters.

Still it has to be remembered, that tigers do get killed by other animals too. It is just so, that sometimes big predators have bad days and things go wrong. I don´t see anything too special in it, that sometimes no other explanation can be found, but for instance wild boar. Tigers just aren´t invulnerable. Big cats can take sometimes huge punishment and survive, sometimes hit/wound comes to wrong spot and they die. Of course if we think about poaching cover ups, do we actually have any evidence, that tigers would have killed even one rhino or elephant as often is claimed.... difficult questions.

But from Russia there are also studies confirming, that wild boars have killed tigers. But what is enough evidence is naturally a question, which everyone have to decide themselves.

They can be but when Tigers fight with any animals that are capable of killing them there isn't going to be a lack of evidence. There will be injuries, blood splatter and destroyed ground, you won't walk up to them and not be able to tell if they were electrocuted or poisoned compared to being killed in a drawn out fight.
Also, Fecal matter and hair are hardly conclusive considering you're in the forest where those things exist everywhere.

In regards to adult Rhinos, you have accounts of Rhinos being killed by Tigers in Dudhwa, if you chose to not except those without images that's fine and nobody is saying you're wrong, in regards to Elephants, they have definitely been predated on and there is far more real world evidence to go on, but both cases would be extremely rare and I myself have a hard time believing either healthy adult would ever fall victim to a Tiger. But between the 2, I'd say Tigers have a better chance of taking a Female Elephant over a Rhino, but if either did occur you can bet there would be signs of a long drawn out battle, it wouldn't just be an intact Elephant or Rhino on the ground with no wounds.

In regards to Russian Boars killing tigers, do you know which Studies have confirmed this?

Shadow · 10-01-2019, 10:34 PM

(10-01-2019, 09:40 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(10-01-2019, 09:48 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(10-01-2019, 07:38 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(10-01-2019, 07:33 AM)Rishi Wrote:
(09-30-2019, 12:15 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(09-29-2019, 09:38 PM)Shadow Wrote:
(09-29-2019, 09:09 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(09-29-2019, 06:17 PM)Shadow Wrote: I noticed by accident more information about one older case, where dogs injured a tiger. Looks like those were stray dogs. In this article was just mentioned wild dogs https://zeenews.india.com/news/eco-news/pack-of-wild-dogs-attack-and-injure-tiger-at-panna-reserve_877236.html

In this article is now said clearly that stray dogs and a bit more information concerning injuries.

Quote:

"On September 10, 2013, a three-year-old tiger, P-212, was attacked by a stray dog near Hinouta range inside Panna Tiger reserve in one of the rarest occurrences.

The tiger was tranquilized and shifted to enclosure following multiple bites on its nose and tail.

Incidents of dogs and wild boars chasing tigers have been reported from other forest areas, too."

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bhopal/now-wild-boars-kill-tiger/articleshow/63590359.cms

Both incidents sound speculative, if a Tiger was killed by a boar it'd show wounds and no stray dog could be anything more than prey for a Tiger, even a 3 year old.

Edut: I found it, P212 was treated for rabies.
Well, wild boars have been reported to kill some tigers in official reports from India and Russia, so nothing special in it. Then again if tiger is treated for rabies, dog bites are for sure a good reason to do so.
I cannot recall a single case of an Indian Boar killing a Tiger nor can I recall a Russian one either, but it'd be more believable with a Russian boar.

This is what I got.. Read the next 5-6 posts too.
https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-tiger-p...6#pid53056
It's the same article that was posted in regards to P212
Post #873
Like most TOI articles, evidence is lacking and the claim isn't verified with many questions left unanswered.
Usually seems like poaching or poisoning cover ups over actual animal encounters.

Still it has to be remembered, that tigers do get killed by other animals too. It is just so, that sometimes big predators have bad days and things go wrong. I don´t see anything too special in it, that sometimes no other explanation can be found, but for instance wild boar. Tigers just aren´t invulnerable. Big cats can take sometimes huge punishment and survive, sometimes hit/wound comes to wrong spot and they die. Of course if we think about poaching cover ups, do we actually have any evidence, that tigers would have killed even one rhino or elephant as often is claimed.... difficult questions.

But from Russia there are also studies confirming, that wild boars have killed tigers. But what is enough evidence is naturally a question, which everyone have to decide themselves.
They can be but when Tigers fight with any animals that are capable of killing them there isn't going to be a lack of evidence. There will be injuries, blood splatter and destroyed ground, you won't walk up to them and not be able to tell if they were electrocuted or poisoned compared to being killed in a drawn out fight.
Also, Fecal matter and hair are hardly conclusive considering you're in the forest where those things exist everywhere.

In regards to adult Rhinos, you have accounts of Rhinos being killed by Tigers in Dudhwa, if you chose to not except those without images that's fine and nobody is saying you're wrong, in regards to Elephants, they have definitely been predated on and there is far more real world evidence to go on, but both cases would be extremely rare and I myself have a hard time believing either healthy adult would ever fall victim to a Tiger. But between the 2, I'd say Tigers have a better chance of taking a Female Elephant over a Rhino, but if either did occur you can bet there would be signs of a long drawn out battle, it wouldn't just be an intact Elephant or Rhino on the ground with no wounds.

In regards to Russian Boars killing tigers, do you know which Studies have confirmed this?

Some people believe, that tigers have killed rhinos and elephants. Some don´t. It´s basically same situation, do people believe what is told. What comes to Russia, there is a study, it has been shared here in thread on the edge of extinction concerning tigers. It was about tiger mortality in Russian far east, Miquelle and some others have made it. If someone is interested it should be relatively easy to find also from researchgate.

Nyers · 10-01-2019, 11:49 PM

About boar and tiger intereactions I think that's will be interesting:

https://life.ru/t/новости/126743

Around 5-6 yo tiger in the fight was seriosly injured. He has many injuries to his internal organs, and his hind legs also failed. Nevertheless he killed boar. And with people help this tiger survived.

here photo of tiger and boar skull
https://portamur.ru/news/detail/posle-rokovoy-vstrechi-s-kabanom-tigr-propolz-kilometrov-i-uspel-povzdorit-s-medvedem/

after succesful hunt hunt he walked only on his forepaws 10 km

Pckts · 10-01-2019, 11:58 PM

@Nyers
Good account, much more believable with evidence provided, Russian Boars are very fomiformidable.

Very interesting that the Tiger continued to hunt boar after this kill and even tried to hunt a young bear in its den.

Spalea · 10-02-2019, 12:05 AM

(10-01-2019, 10:34 PM)Shadow Wrote:
(10-01-2019, 09:40 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(10-01-2019, 09:48 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(10-01-2019, 07:38 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(10-01-2019, 07:33 AM)Rishi Wrote:
(09-30-2019, 12:15 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(09-29-2019, 09:38 PM)Shadow Wrote:
(09-29-2019, 09:09 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(09-29-2019, 06:17 PM)Shadow Wrote: I noticed by accident more information about one older case, where dogs injured a tiger. Looks like those were stray dogs. In this article was just mentioned wild dogs https://zeenews.india.com/news/eco-news/pack-of-wild-dogs-attack-and-injure-tiger-at-panna-reserve_877236.html

In this article is now said clearly that stray dogs and a bit more information concerning injuries.

Quote:

"On September 10, 2013, a three-year-old tiger, P-212, was attacked by a stray dog near Hinouta range inside Panna Tiger reserve in one of the rarest occurrences.

The tiger was tranquilized and shifted to enclosure following multiple bites on its nose and tail.

Incidents of dogs and wild boars chasing tigers have been reported from other forest areas, too."

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bhopal/now-wild-boars-kill-tiger/articleshow/63590359.cms

Both incidents sound speculative, if a Tiger was killed by a boar it'd show wounds and no stray dog could be anything more than prey for a Tiger, even a 3 year old.

Edut: I found it, P212 was treated for rabies.
Well, wild boars have been reported to kill some tigers in official reports from India and Russia, so nothing special in it. Then again if tiger is treated for rabies, dog bites are for sure a good reason to do so.
I cannot recall a single case of an Indian Boar killing a Tiger nor can I recall a Russian one either, but it'd be more believable with a Russian boar.

This is what I got.. Read the next 5-6 posts too.
https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-tiger-p...6#pid53056
It's the same article that was posted in regards to P212
Post #873
Like most TOI articles, evidence is lacking and the claim isn't verified with many questions left unanswered.
Usually seems like poaching or poisoning cover ups over actual animal encounters.

Still it has to be remembered, that tigers do get killed by other animals too. It is just so, that sometimes big predators have bad days and things go wrong. I don´t see anything too special in it, that sometimes no other explanation can be found, but for instance wild boar. Tigers just aren´t invulnerable. Big cats can take sometimes huge punishment and survive, sometimes hit/wound comes to wrong spot and they die. Of course if we think about poaching cover ups, do we actually have any evidence, that tigers would have killed even one rhino or elephant as often is claimed.... difficult questions.

But from Russia there are also studies confirming, that wild boars have killed tigers. But what is enough evidence is naturally a question, which everyone have to decide themselves.
They can be but when Tigers fight with any animals that are capable of killing them there isn't going to be a lack of evidence. There will be injuries, blood splatter and destroyed ground, you won't walk up to them and not be able to tell if they were electrocuted or poisoned compared to being killed in a drawn out fight.
Also, Fecal matter and hair are hardly conclusive considering you're in the forest where those things exist everywhere.

In regards to adult Rhinos, you have accounts of Rhinos being killed by Tigers in Dudhwa, if you chose to not except those without images that's fine and nobody is saying you're wrong, in regards to Elephants, they have definitely been predated on and there is far more real world evidence to go on, but both cases would be extremely rare and I myself have a hard time believing either healthy adult would ever fall victim to a Tiger. But between the 2, I'd say Tigers have a better chance of taking a Female Elephant over a Rhino, but if either did occur you can bet there would be signs of a long drawn out battle, it wouldn't just be an intact Elephant or Rhino on the ground with no wounds.

In regards to Russian Boars killing tigers, do you know which Studies have confirmed this?

Some people believe, that tigers have killed rhinos and elephants. Some don´t. It´s basically same situation, do people believe what is told. What comes to Russia, there is a study, it has been shared here in thread on the edge of extinction concerning tigers. It was about tiger mortality in Russian far east, Miquelle and some others have made it. If someone is interested it should be relatively easy to find also from researchgate.

I sincerely believe, now, that a male tiger is able to kill an adult rhino or elephant... But that remains a matter of proportion. It has been said that, in some parks, tigers were responsible for the rhinos extinction... I think it's abusive. Tigers and rhinos, tigers and bears, have been living together within the same regions without the formers exterminated the latters for 2 or 3 millions years. But since some men have started to watch them, it is no more a struggle for life but a total war of extermination. Let us stop to be delirious.

Nyers · 10-02-2019, 12:18 AM

Update on this case
5 days later tiger unfortunately was dead. But after autopsy vets found a real cause of death - kidney and adrenal gland cancer and maybe this was the reason why paralyzed his hind legs

https://www.tvc.ru/news/show/id/31664

Shadow · 10-02-2019, 12:39 AM

This is study/report, which mentions between 1985-1996 7 tigers killed by bears and 4 tigers killed by wild boars.

Conducted by: E. N. Matyushkin, D. G. Pikunov, Y. M. Dunishenko, D. G. Miquelle, I. G. Nikolaev, E. N. Smirnov, G. P. Salkina, V. K. Abramov, V. I. Bazylnikov, V. G. Yudin and V. G. Korkishko.
https://pdfslide.net/documents/amur-tiger-census-1996.html

Not something to happen too often, but time to time.

epaiva · 10-02-2019, 12:47 AM

(10-02-2019, 12:39 AM)Shadow Wrote: This is study/report, which mentions between 1985-1996 7 tigers killed by bears and 4 tigers killed by wild boars.

Conducted by: E. N. Matyushkin, D. G. Pikunov, Y. M. Dunishenko, D. G. Miquelle, I. G. Nikolaev, E. N. Smirnov, G. P. Salkina, V. K. Abramov, V. I. Bazylnikov, V. G. Yudin and V. G. Korkishko.
https://pdfslide.net/documents/amur-tiger-census-1996.html

Not something to happen too often, but time to time.

@Shadow
Thanks for sharing valuable information

Pckts · 10-02-2019, 12:57 AM

(10-02-2019, 12:39 AM)Shadow Wrote: This is study/report, which mentions between 1985-1996 7 tigers killed by bears and 4 tigers killed by wild boars.

Conducted by: E. N. Matyushkin, D. G. Pikunov, Y. M. Dunishenko, D. G. Miquelle, I. G. Nikolaev, E. N. Smirnov, G. P. Salkina, V. K. Abramov, V. I. Bazylnikov, V. G. Yudin and V. G. Korkishko.
https://pdfslide.net/documents/amur-tiger-census-1996.html

Not something to happen too often, but time to time.

Unfortunately any details on the accounts aren't provided

"Table 10. Summary of tiger mortalities during past 10 years, based on information supplied by counters during the 1995-1996 winter census in Khabarovsk and Primorye Krais"

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