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Big cat and Bear tale
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Was he actually weighed?; I assume so as the number is not a 'round' number'. But if not, these are guys ( Rangers ) who know grizzlies up close and personal; thus can fairly accurately estimate their weights. Since Fatso's weight was estimated by Park Rangers at 1,120 pounds ( if not actually weighed ) then its fairly cetain he weighed at least 1,000 pounds. That is my opinion.
 (11-12-2015, 02:22 AM)brotherbear Wrote: Was he actually weighed?; I assume so as the number is not a 'round' number. But if not, these are guys ( Rangers ) who know grizzlies up close and personal; thus can fairly accurately estimate their weights. Since Fatso's weight was estimated by Park Rangers at 1,120 pounds ( if not actually weighed ) then its fairly cetain he weighed at least 1,000 pounds. That is my opinion. Ok, so the weight was estimated then, according to the Park Ranger? The reason I ask is because the the account i posted of the largest verified weight from Yellowstones site with a bear ID and people involved. Probably why they say he is the largest bear weighed at yellowstone, I would think.
Ok, so the weight was estimated then, according to the Park Ranger?
I said that perhaps this is an estimation. If so, estimated by Park Rangers who should certainly make some fairly accurate estimations. Then again, perhaps this bear was weighed. In any case, this bear very likely weighed 1,000+ pounds. However, this was an obese bear. But, there have been others weighing from 800 to 900 pounds while in good healthy condition.
The reason I ask is because the the account i posted of the largest verified weight from Yellowstones site with a bear ID and people involved. Probably why they say he is the largest bear weighed at yellowstone, I would think.
...During that particular study. (11-12-2015, 02:54 AM)brotherbear Wrote: The reason I ask is because the the account i posted of the largest verified weight from Yellowstones site with a bear ID and people involved. Probably why they say he is the largest bear weighed at yellowstone, I would think. It was a 25 year study and he was born when only 300 bears lived there till the number of 750 now. "Born in 1990 during the midst of a grizzly baby boom, No. 211 witnessed the return of wolves, and has become one of the most recognizable bruins by park visitors who’ve dubbed him Scarface due to healed gashes from fights with other bears. Scientists say genetic matches show he fathered at least three offspring during a 25-year span that saw the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem grizzly bear population rise from about 300 to more than 750." "The first capture of No. 211 happened in 1993 near Mount Washburn in the northeast part of the park. At 3 years old, he weighed an estimated 150 pounds." So do you know when these other bears were weighed? If the numbers before the baby boom were only 300, the odds of having larger individuals than him are greatly decreased but if they are from the very early 1900s or late 1800s, that would be more likely of finding a larger specimen.
The Bear Almanac by Gary Brown.
Northern Montana, near Choteau: In May 2007 a 750-pound male grizzly bear was trapped ( for research ). Also very large for the spring, the bear, if it had gained normal weight, again considering its habitat and time of year, would have weighed 900 pounds by fall. With a length of 7 feet, 6 inches, 3.5 inch claws, and a 4-foot neck circumference, the bear is the second-largest grizzly recorded in the Northern Continental Divide Ecosystem. The Grizzly Almanac by Robert H. Busch. Perhaps the most colorful taxonomic description of all came from biologist Theodore Walker, who once said that "the grizzly, of course, is nothing more than an underfed Alaskan brown bear."
Weights in excess of 453 kg ( 1,000 pounds ) have also been reliably reported for the Grizzly bear ( ursus arctos horribilis ), although the average adult male weighs about 272 kg ( 600 pounds ) and stands about 1.06 m ( 42 inches ) at the shoulder. One huge male killed in the Okanogan Forest Reserve, Washington, U.S.A., in early August 1924 weighed over 1,100 pound. It was a notorious cattle-killer, and over a period of three years took nearly 50 head of cattle and more than 150 sheep. ( Annual Report Dept. of Agriculture, 1924. ) Another grizzly killed in Idaho in the 19th century was sold to a butcher in Spokane, who claimed that he paid for 531 kg ( 1,173 pounds ) of meat. This figure was placed on the carcass as it hung in front of his shop ( Wright 1909 ).
In May 1920, archer Arthur Young of San Francisco killed a monstrous grizzly in the Yellowstone National Park, Wyoming, with a single arrow through the heart. Later Dr. Saxton Pope, who accompanied Young on the trip, wrote: "As we dismembered him, we weighed the parts. The veins were absolutely dry of blood, and without this substance, he was 916 pounds. There was hardly an inch of fat on his back. At the end of the summer this adipose layer would be nearly 6 inches thick. He would then have weighed 1,400 pounds. If we make due allowance for over-enthusiasm, this bear probably scaled 521 kg ( 1,150 pounds ) at its heaviest. Animal facts and feats by Gerald L. Wood.
Animal facts and feats by Gerald L. Wood... The greatest reliable weight recorded for a European brown bear ( Ursus arctos arctos ) is 480 kg ( 1,058 pounds ) for a 2.43 m ( 8 feet ) long male shot in the Oural District, northern Russia ( Kazeeff, 1878 ). The average adult male weighs 204 to 249 kg ( 450 to 550 pounds ).
From the lost files of AVA... BigBonns.... Apol and Bold.
Just had this email back from Chris Servheen. Yes Steve the tragic Grizzly was killed by a truck near Lincoln in Montana and weighed at 830lb with a set of Marlin and Shark scales. The paws were almost 9 inches across and he had 5 inch claws. He is about as big as they get around here and bold enough to take the highway in broad daylight. He had lifted a Bull Elk carcass out of a pick up and made off with it into the Lincoln hills a week before. He had also been shot and hit by a car in the past but was in otherwise fine condition. Yes an 843lb Grizzly was relocated to Denali in 2008. He had become an habitual nuisance bear but it was decided to relocate rather than shoot him. We hope to see more like him but prefer they stay away from the highway.
Another from AVA... First posted by Big Bonns: http://animalsversesanimals.yuku.com/
In answer to Bold... They have just darted and weighed a Rockies Grizzly (usually the smallest subspecies in the Americas) at 750lb just after hibernation, complete with 3.5 inch claws and 8 inch wide pads. It was predcited to easily weigh 900lbs at fall........ but is the second largest for the region. Utter and conclusive proof that interior Grizzly (even in the barren ground of the Rockies) can do 850lb. See the site http://www.mammalz.com The tally is starting to grow. This one in the Rockies at 750lb possibly rising to 900lb and the second of this size. The 1050lb Khutz Grizzly The 900lb and 1120lb (heaviest ever) specimens from Yellowstone. The 2 recent road kill specimens also Yellowstone. 750lb and 847lb The transplanted rogue male from Yellowstone at 843lb The Yukon 940lb bear. Its suggesting an upper weight area of 800lb to 900lb for large specimens for the interior Grizzly. ....and means at best weights Interior Grizzly are potentially superior to Bigcats.
Pckts, just because this one person or team of naturalists captured and weighed no grizzly weighing above the 500 pound range does not mean that there are none there. There are indeed reliable records of bears within that location, inland grizzlies, weighing between 800 and 900 pounds. I remember that a long-lasting study of the Siberian tiger captured and weighed no tigers above the 400 pound range. Should I assume that there are no tigers weighing as much as 500 pounds?
Here are a few more good examples; again from AVA:
From a 2011 debate at AvA... the highlights... http://animalsversesanimals.yuku.com/
First posted by Big Bonns... There was a prime Khutzy male weighed during last Summer that hit slightly under 800lb and the road killed Yellowstone specimen the previous year at 843lb with another of 847lb being repatriated to Denali in 2004. Yukons heaviest ever was suprizingly 900lbs but they more routinely struggle to get above 450lb due to exceedingly poor scrub vegetation and almost no meat or fish. Yellowstones heaviest is 1120lb. Thus it looks to me that inland Grizzly run around 500lbish upto about 850lbs. I would probably remove the 1120lb Yellowstone animal as a super massive freak as the second heaviest there was 900lbs and this over 30 years ago but then again is no more a freak than say Hairfoot.
Big Bonns... Trouble is averages dont work for Bears in a debate like this. Average stats might be ok for a Bear researcher trying to gauge the health of a population or tabulate a mean density of 4 year olds or similar but it does not allow for large numbers of principal males which dominate areas.
Its a little like taking say B2 the largest dominant Tiger from a given location .....not using him in the stats... and average Tigers comng out at 200kg.....but times by a factor 20 in the case of Brown Bear. Bears just do return much bigger males than any cat and on a very routine, high frequency basis......regardless of the average stats. As a for instance, weve had atleast 8 Bears from one small area of Yelowstone which are atleast double the average weight. If we try that for Tiger, we just dont get Cats twice the weight at all, let alone 8 animals. Thus average stats return nothing in the comparsion argument for Grizzly/Brown Bear. Almost meaningless to bring average weights in th first place when dealing with Bear. The 843lb road kill will testify to this. Bears here supposed to be 400lb....and then turns up by remote accident infront of a truck that is more than double the weight...and we never even had to look for him! Another at 847lb 2 900lb animals....incredibly a 700lb female, a raft of 650lb specimens and one at 1120lb....would also suggest something is wrong with averages when dealing with Bear. Try a visit to the Chicago Museum of NH. Take a look at the skeleton of the Kodiak estimated at 850lb. Not a particulary big specimen (about half the record for the species) now look at its framework. Thats all there is....theres no skin on the skeletons section in here and you will see that it is about 0.5ft shorter than that of the Lion but almost twice as wide. The legs are placed atleast twice as wide on the stand, where the Lions drop directly below the Lions body. Only the shoulder heights are roughly the same, although even here i would say this moderate Kodiak is taller in the skeleton. Looking at the leg bones they were atleast half again as thick...as were the joints. Only the jaws of the Lion looked more impressive and this one with particulary large canines.....about the biggest ive ever seen on any bigcat....which did puzzle me a bit.......this is where i would concentrate my argument if i were you. As regard not accepting Grizzly from Yellowstone at double the weight, John Craighead actually weighed the 1966 1120lb monster himself and reported he wasnt fat....just a huge lumbering, muscular beast. 2 more were weighed at 900lb in the 70s and recently 2 at almost 850lb...both weighed. A 650lb specimen was shot during the spring of 2010 way before his Autumn best weight and even one huge female reportedly managed 700lb. Grizzly Years reported another 650lb to 700lb male in Wyoming which borders the Yellowstone territory. Largest Khutzy specimens are 1053lb and another 950lb. Largest Yukon specimen 930lb.....all Interior Grizzly. Grizzly just do get upto 850lb ish (freaks removed) its a fact and theres no point arguing against it. Finally take a look at that recent road kill grizzly. Legs and shoulders twice as big as any lions youll ever see....huge paws and claws but remember some 300lb Light of the potential of the species.
Go to: North American Interior Grizzly Bears - size chart on page #1. http://shaggygod.proboards.com/board/55/...bear-brown
These are bears weighed from age #9 and up: 199 kg = 438.72 lbs. 168.9 kg = 372.36 lbs. 224 kg = 493.84 lbs. 199 kg = 438.72 lbs. 261.1 kg = 575.63 lbs. 233.8 kg = 515. 44 lbs. 301.9 kg = 665.58 lbs. 259.9 kg = 572.98 lbs. 147.6 kg = 325.40 lbs. 215.7 kg = 475.54 lbs. 238.4 kg = 525.58 lbs. ...the average mature male Yellowstone grizzly averages out at roughly 500 pounds. Note also that this study was made prior to the wolf reintroduction, 1975 - 1985. (11-12-2015, 03:41 PM)brotherbear Wrote: Pckts, just because this one person or team of naturalists captured and weighed no grizzly weighing above the 500 pound range does not mean that there are none there. There are indeed reliable records of bears within that location, inland grizzlies, weighing between 800 and 900 pounds. I remember that a long-lasting study of the Siberian tiger captured and weighed no tigers above the 400 pound range. Should I assume that there are no tigers weighing as much as 500 pounds? That is from all of yellowstones data base, over a 25 year period. I have no doubt that bears get larger than said bear, but I don't think that their were any larger than he during that time period. Yellowstone officials know their bears inside and out, I assume its like tiger or lion reserves. They usually know every specimen they see, Tiger and lion reserves get new individuals very rarely and usually its a tiger/lion that has traveled a long way through a corridor to search for new territory. What corridor connect yellowstone grizzlies to other populations? " John Craighead actually weighed the 1966 1120lb monster himself and reported he wasnt fat....just a huge lumbering, muscular beast. 2 more were weighed at 900lb in the 70s and recently 2 at almost 850lb...both weighed. A 650lb specimen was shot during the spring of 2010 way before his Autumn best weight and even one huge female reportedly managed 700lb. Grizzly Years reported another 650lb to 700lb male in Wyoming which borders the Yellowstone territory. Largest Khutzy specimens are 1053lb and another 950lb. Largest Yukon specimen 930lb.....all Interior Grizzly. Grizzly just do get upto 850lb ish (freaks removed) its a fact and theres no point arguing against it. Finally take a look at that recent road kill grizzly." Who was there for this alleged weighing? Did he do it himself? If so, How? Do you have a link for these weights, scientist verification, any of that? I'm not skeptical of bears reaching over that weight, but I am skeptical of weights claimed without verification attached. I have no doubt that neighboring populations could very well have larger bears, I'm simply using Yellowstones data base and speaking on those specimens only. Usually we can see body measurements, date of capture, location and etc. |
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