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+---- Thread: Big cat and Bear tale (/topic-big-cat-and-bear-tale)
Big cat and Bear tale - sanjay - 08-01-2014
This is amazing story when a male and female tiger and tigress have to back up from a fierce mother(sloth bear). This is incident on April 2011 When one of our most famous wildlife photographer Dicky Singh from India capture all the moments in his camera. Dicky Singh is very respectable wildlife photographer and wildfact community truly appreciate his work.
--------------------- Story: ---------------------------
9th April 2011. In the morning safari some jeeps saw a pair of tigers walking from Ranthambhore national park towards the Kalapani anicut in the Kundaal valley at the edge of the national park. In the evening we found the mating tigers (T24 male and T39 female – both young adults) in a rocky plateau across the Kalapani anicut.
*This image is copyright of its original author
The plateau had a short grass cover and some low trees. The sun was behind the tigers and the back light was very strong. Most of the time the tigers were in the shade and were no good for photography. After about half an hour the tigress suddenly got up and started stalking towards the edge of the plateau.
*This image is copyright of its original author
A mother bear with two small cubs riding on her back was walking towards the mating pair of tigers and the tigress had gone to confront them. By the time the bear realized that there were tigers close by, the tigress had got very close to them. That’s when the mother became aware of the tiger’s presence.
*This image is copyright of its original author
The bear appeared to be in serious trouble and we expected the bear to bolt away but the bear had other plans. The bear cubs flattened themselves on the mother’s back while the mother charged at the approaching tigress.
*This image is copyright of its original author
I don’t think that the tigress expected the bear to charge and tried to get out of what was by now a messy situation for both of them. The bear blocked the tiger’s path and stood up on her hind legs to confront the tigress. By this time the tigress desperately wanted to get out of the confrontation and kept backing off. T 39 in a young tigress who probably did not have the experience to take on a desperate mother.
*This image is copyright of its original author
The bear started screaming loudly and got increasingly aggressive. Soon there was a loud slanging match between the two, which the bear won. The tigress beat a hasty retreat while the bear stood her ground.
*This image is copyright of its original author
By this time the male tiger who was observing the drama from a little distance decided to get involved. T 24 is about 4 years old and had just come into dominance. We were worried for the bear.
*This image is copyright of its original author
We had seriously underestimated the power of an angry mother. T 24, the young male star of southern Ranthambhore, could not even budge the bear. These two had another loud slanging match that went in the bear’s favour.
*This image is copyright of its original author
T 24 soon realized the fury of an angry mother and started backing away from a now “one sided” fight and did not stop till he reached a safe distance.
*This image is copyright of its original author
All this happened in exactly two minutes and 10 seconds. When the clock started it seemed that the mother bear had got herself into a very dangerous spot. In ten seconds she had taken control and two minutes later she had forced two tigers to back off. The victor walked off leaving behind two sheepish cats.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Pardon the large watermarks but these pictures have been downloaded and used by far too many people / agencies without any credit.
--------------------- End of story ---------------------------
This show how a desperate mother can go to any limit to protect her cubs.
All copyright and credit belong to Aditya Dicky Singh. here is his blog http://www.dickysingh.com/
RE: tiger and bear tale - Pckts - 08-01-2014
Great story, Obviously I think that if you have a adult T24 you probably have a different outcome.
But still cool to see.
Recently saw a post of a old male sloth bear on FB. The caption spoke of his many scars on his face and how he had to overcome many battles in its life to make it so long.
It must be very hard for a sloth to make it to prime adulthood, they seem like extremely durable and capable fighters.
RE: tiger and bear tale - Vinod - 08-01-2014
now that's brave [img]images/smilies/exclamation.gif[/img] seeing that a mating pair would be too much for anyone.
how in Africa a cape buffalo mother would even confront an entire pride to protect her calf.
RE: tiger and bear tale - Pckts - 08-01-2014
(08-01-2014, 09:56 PM)'Vinod' Wrote: now that's brave [img]images/smilies/exclamation.gif[/img] seeing that a mating pair would be too much for anyone.
how in Africa a cape buffalo mother would even confront an entire pride to protect her calf.
Nobody messes with a "momma bear"
lol
RE: tiger and bear tale - Pckts - 08-01-2014
Here is another story that is similar to this but the Tigers are the protective parents
The last one with Gita Male (RIP) vs Mother Sloth with Cub
Bear and Big Cat interactions in the wild - brotherbear - 11-03-2015
This is a discussion about the interspecific relationship between the big cats and bears. I am not interested in fight-club scenarios taking place by captive animals. Any data on recent or historical events is welcome. I will also edit and add the Russian wild boar.
RE: Bear and Big Cat interactions in the wild - brotherbear - 11-03-2015
Bear Almanac by Gary Brown.
Tiger - Tigers prey on bears in their respective habitat. The diet of some Siberian tigers is 5 to 8 percent Asiatic black bear, though the bears have been observed displacing tigers from their kills.
Bengal tigers kill sun bears, though they will often avoid them, and they ambush or sneak up on a sloth bear. Brown bears are a more formidable challenge for a Siberian tiger, and most of those bears killed are young, orphaned, or bears too old or weak to defend against a tiger.
RE: Bear and Big Cat interactions in the wild - brotherbear - 11-03-2015
The Works of Theodore Roosevelt - volume 4 of 14.
How the prowess of the grisly compares with that of the lion or tiger would be hard to say; I have never shot rather of the latter myself, and my brother, who has killed tigers in India, has never had a chance at a grisly. Any one of the big bears we killed on the mountains would, I should think, have been able to make short work of either a lion or a tiger; for the grisly is greatly superior in bulk and muscular power to either of the great cats, and its teeth are as large as theirs, while its claws, though blunter, are much longer; never-the-less, I believe that a lion or a tiger would be fully as dangerous to a hunter or other human being, on account of the superior speed of its charge, the lighting-like rapidity of its movements, and its apparently sharper senses. Still,, after all id said, the man should have a thoroughly trustworthy weapon and a fairly cool head who would follow into his own haunts and slay Old Ephraim.
The above is quoted by Teddy Roosevelt in his early years, before traveling abroad. After experiencing lion hunting in Africa, TR made this statement: Teddy Roosevelt once stated that a stripped carcass of a grizzly bear is far more robust than the same of a lion . The bear is just more powerfully and larger built .
RE: Bear and Big Cat interactions in the wild - GrizzlyClaws - 11-03-2015
The fight to death between the big predators, it is about the raw power and brute strength to determine the final outcome.
Just like this hypothetical scenario between the prehistoric cave bear and cave lion.
BTW, no versus intention in my post.
RE: Bear and Big Cat interactions in the wild - Pckts - 11-03-2015
(11-03-2015, 04:32 AM)brotherbear Wrote: The Works of Theodore Roosevelt - volume 4 of 14.
How the prowess of the grisly compares with that of the lion or tiger would be hard to say; I have never shot rather of the latter myself, and my brother, who has killed tigers in India, has never had a chance at a grisly. Any one of the big bears we killed on the mountains would, I should think, have been able to make short work of either a lion or a tiger; for the grisly is greatly superior in bulk and muscular power to either of the great cats, and its teeth are as large as theirs, while its claws, though blunter, are much longer; never-the-less, I believe that a lion or a tiger would be fully as dangerous to a hunter or other human being, on account of the superior speed of its charge, the lighting-like rapidity of its movements, and its apparently sharper senses. Still,, after all id said, the man should have a thoroughly trustworthy weapon and a fairly cool head who would follow into his own haunts and slay Old Ephraim.
The above is quoted by Teddy Roosevelt in his early years, before traveling abroad. After experiencing lion hunting in Africa, TR made this statement: Teddy Roosevelt once stated that a stripped carcass of a grizzly bear is far more robust than the same of a lion . The bear is just more powerfully and larger built .
Hardly scientific
RE: Bear and Big Cat interactions in the wild - Dr Panthera - 11-03-2015
I am going to list a brief description of the interactions of each of the big cats with sympatric bear species, generally the cats are dominant over bears of similar weight but encounters go either way:
Puma:
Sympatric with brown bears, American black bear, and Andean bear, all these scavenge from puma kills and steal them.
Generally brown bears are dominant over pumas, Andean bears rarely interact with pumas, and with black bears it goes either way, Mark Elbroch documented a three year old female puma who lost her kill to a three year old black bear and returned and killed the bear.
Jaguar:
Little overlap with both black bears and Andean bears, little scientific documentation of interactions
Lion:
Not sympatric with bears, historically lions were sympatric with Atlas brown bears, Syrian brown bears, and cave bears in Eurasia even at those times the Bears lived in mountainous and hilly areas with little interaction with lions
Cheetah:
Not sympatric, different habitats.
Leopards:
Sympatric with Syrian brown bears, Eurasian brown bears, Isabella brown bear, Asiatic black bear, sloth bear, sun bear, and giant panda.
Predation on panda cubs, black bear cubs, and sun bear cubs is documented, little interaction with adult bears, probably the leopard is subordinate to all of them.
Snow Leopard:
Sympatric with brown bear and asiatic black bear, predation on juveniles of bears is documented , including Heptner and Sludskii s account of the predation on a two year old brown bear.
Tiger:
Sympatric with brown bear, asiatic black bear, sloth bear, and sun bear.
Predation on these bears by tigers is well documented scientifically up to the range of female brown bears of circa 140 kg in Russia, all bear species scavenge tiger kills and in many cases dominate female and subadult tigers, large male brown bears have killed and eaten Amur tigers even adult young males, reported interactions go either way.
Black bears made 22% of Amur tigers diet in one area and brown bears were another 9%
Bengal tigers prey on sloth bears and asiatic black bears and lose kille to them
Indochinese tigers on asiatic black bears and sun bears
Malayan tigers on sun bears ( possibly asiatic black bear)
Sumatran tigers on sun bears as well.
Tiger kills are a good source of animal protein to all bears.
In most cases the cats withdraw but as I said either outcome is possible depending on the situation.
RE: Bear and Big Cat interactions in the wild - brotherbear - 11-03-2015
Pckts, Historical is seldom scientific. Here are the words of an early American pioneer: Man Meets Grizzly by Young and Beyers'
"They talk of bears," said Preston, fixed upon mine, with still regard, his large gray eyes; "of bears in Arkansas. I was bred to the bear as well as to the 'bar', and through ten seasons hunted on the Red River with men of the woods, 'bar' hunters of the border, who have all the forest wisdom. I have read, too, what has been written by the great hunters, but none of them knew the bear of California. He is the sovereign of beasts; in strength, weight, endurance, and sagacity superior to the lion, and I doubt not has formerly destroyed some great and powerful tribe of lions on this continent."
RE: Bear and Big Cat interactions in the wild - brotherbear - 11-03-2015
The Grizzly Book by Jack Samson - Hunting the Grizzly Bear by Ned W. Frost.
In these days when you hear so much concerning rugged individualism, it is high time that sportsmen should give some consideration to the American Grizzly, Ursus horribilis, with particular emphasis on the subspecies imperator or "Silver Tip" as he is generally called. This animal is the grandest and most rugged individual of them all. Collective security means nothing to him. His ultimatum is: You go your way and I'll go mine," with the added warning "but don't let your way cross mine, for I brook no interference." He is a peaceful, shy individual when left alone, but he can become the most savage, raging beast on earth once he is aroused.
Authorities who are interested in the subject, and who have looked up all possible records and checked all maulings of hunters by dangerous game animals, place him ahead of the African Lion, Water Buffalo, and Seladang, when numbers of hunters and trophies taken are considered. By birthright he is king of the North American animals, and by reason of his unbelievable strength and dominating courage he has maintained his claim to the ruler's throne. Yet the characteristics which have made him stand above other wild animals have also brought about his downfall, because he is considered the finest trophy of a sportsman's collection.
*Note: Seladang = gaur.
RE: Bear and Big Cat interactions in the wild - Pckts - 11-03-2015
It's a nice story, I certainly don't doubt a large male bear would be able to take on a male lion or tiger. Anybody who would think that an animal with a significant weight advantage wouldn't have an advantage over another with similar weapons would be crazy. But at the end of the day, tigers and lions have killed bears and vice versa. For every impressive bear vs big cat stories there are just as impressive big cat vs bear story.
Unless this person has seen both, measured both, weighed, hunted, etc. There really cannot be much stake put into an opinion.
Just reading the Yellowstone article I posted, the largest bear ever weighed there was 597lbs which is the same as the largest tigers that have been weighed. We both are aware of the morphological differences between the two, I have heard of stories of single shots killing them and other times the single shot does nothing to them. Both are durable as it gets, lion included.
RE: Bear and Big Cat interactions in the wild - brotherbear - 11-03-2015
GrizzlyClaws, the video will not show in this country ( must be too violent for the U.S. of A. ).