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Bears as Predators ~

India brotherbear Offline
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My father-in-law had a big Herford bull that was very playful. He had cows and hogs. One day his bull got playful with a boar hog. The hog cut the bull's face causing the bull to bleed to death. Being around domestic hogs, I know that it is possible for a big hog to kill a bear or even a tiger. The predator likely, I would think, win more often, but there is no doubt that wild boars are formidable adversaries. 
As for a grizzly being playful, the bear and the wolf comes to mind. Can't remember what country they live, but their pictures are popular.
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United States Polar Offline
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(01-16-2018, 06:20 AM)Wolverine Wrote: During childhood I red one curious hunting story from Bulgaria, probably there is some fantasy there, but maybe in same time the story was based on a real case. Its happen that that on narrow game trail in the forest a brown bear and a huge male wild boar ran into each other. Both animals were surprised and nobody wanted to withdrow from the trail first, the tention started to increase. Suddenly the bear noticed a branch above its head and climbed on it, leaving the boar opportunity to pass the trail beneath. Than that scenario start to repeat almost every day for many weeks, both the bear and wild boar strangely liked to do same weird ritual. Sometimes even the bear waited the boar above the same tree for a hour and than climbed to the branch kinda playng with the huge boar. But one day a tragedy happened. Branch suddenly crashed and the bear fell exactly on the head of the boar... Both animals were shocked, suddenly became very aggressive to each other and a mortal fight began. The bear killed the boar but the boar succeeded to penetrate with his sharp canine teeth the bear's abdominal aria and it also died not long after that later found by hunters... Don't know how this old story from the hunting novel is true, but in generally bears are enough smart animals and probably sometimes could be in "playing mood" with other animals.

In general brown bears of course have a weight advantage to the boar. As long as I know the largest both brown bears and wild boars in Europe live in Carphatian mountains in Romanian Transilvania (also known as a "Draculla-land") with average weight of adult male Carphatian brown bear at 260 kg and average weight of adult male Carpathian wild boar of about 110-130 kg if I am not wrong. So that is 2,3 times advantage of the body mass... and such a struggle would not be very fear. But in case a boar is huge (the record for Romania is 275 kg) and equal to the bear's mass he could be formidable adversary. I don't think that a wild boar could kill a brown bear, but for sure sometimes boars inflict a wounds on the bears trying to hunt them, and the prove of this is that sometimes the hunters discover a broken boar's canine teeth in bear's flash.

Interesting, and they do have medium-sized boars and bears (but super rare) in the native mountains in the west of the country. I'm from Bulgaria and never heard of that myself lol! Thanks for sharing.
"Be the reason someone smiles. Be the reason someone feels loved and believes in the goodness in people."

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India brotherbear Offline
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(01-16-2018, 06:34 AM)brotherbear Wrote: My father-in-law had a big Herford bull that was very playful. He had cows and hogs. One day his bull got playful with a boar hog. The hog cut the bull's face causing the bull to bleed to death. Being around domestic hogs, I know that it is possible for a big hog to kill a bear or even a tiger. The predator likely, I would think, win more often, but there is no doubt that wild boars are formidable adversaries. 
As for a grizzly being playful, the bear and the wolf comes to mind. Can't remember what country they live, but their pictures are popular.

The "bear and wolf best pals" are in Finland.
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Canada Wolverine Offline
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( This post was last modified: 01-16-2018, 08:32 PM by Wolverine )

(01-16-2018, 07:03 AM)Polar Wrote:
(01-16-2018, 06:20 AM)Wolverine Wrote: During childhood I red one curious hunting story from Bulgaria, probably there is some fantasy there, but maybe in same time the story was based on a real case. Its happen that that on narrow game trail in the forest a brown bear and a huge male wild boar ran into each other. Both animals were surprised and nobody wanted to withdrow from the trail first, the tention started to increase. Suddenly the bear noticed a branch above its head and climbed on it, leaving the boar opportunity to pass the trail beneath. Than that scenario start to repeat almost every day for many weeks, both the bear and wild boar strangely liked to do same weird ritual. Sometimes even the bear waited the boar above the same tree for a hour and than climbed to the branch kinda playng with the huge boar. But one day a tragedy happened. Branch suddenly crashed and the bear fell exactly on the head of the boar... Both animals were shocked, suddenly became very aggressive to each other and a mortal fight began. The bear killed the boar but the boar succeeded to penetrate with his sharp canine teeth the bear's abdominal aria and it also died not long after that later found by hunters... Don't know how this old story from the hunting novel is true, but in generally bears are enough smart animals and probably sometimes could be in "playing mood" with other animals.

In general brown bears of course have a weight advantage to the boar. As long as I know the largest both brown bears and wild boars in Europe live in Carphatian mountains in Romanian Transilvania (also known as a "Draculla-land") with average weight of adult male Carphatian brown bear at 260 kg and average weight of adult male Carpathian wild boar of about 110-130 kg if I am not wrong. So that is 2,3 times advantage of the body mass... and such a struggle would not be very fear. But in case a boar is huge (the record for Romania is 275 kg) and equal to the bear's mass he could be formidable adversary. I don't think that a wild boar could kill a brown bear, but for sure sometimes boars inflict a wounds on the bears trying to hunt them, and the prove of this is that sometimes the hunters discover a broken boar's canine teeth in bear's flash.

Interesting, and they do have medium-sized boars and bears (but super rare) in the native mountains in the west of the country. I'm from Bulgaria and never heard of that myself lol! Thanks for sharing.
Ти си от България? Направо ме разби.... И аз съм от там, от 8 години сме в Ванкувър. Къде учите?
Расказът доколкото си спомням се казва "Клонът" или нещо такова и беше включен в някакъв сборник от ловни раскази, нищо чудно авторът да беше чехословак или от ГДР вече не помня.

Two guys from Bulgaria in one forum is a little bit amazing...
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United States Polar Offline
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(01-16-2018, 08:30 PM)Wolverine Wrote:
(01-16-2018, 07:03 AM)Polar Wrote:
(01-16-2018, 06:20 AM)Wolverine Wrote: During childhood I red one curious hunting story from Bulgaria, probably there is some fantasy there, but maybe in same time the story was based on a real case. Its happen that that on narrow game trail in the forest a brown bear and a huge male wild boar ran into each other. Both animals were surprised and nobody wanted to withdrow from the trail first, the tention started to increase. Suddenly the bear noticed a branch above its head and climbed on it, leaving the boar opportunity to pass the trail beneath. Than that scenario start to repeat almost every day for many weeks, both the bear and wild boar strangely liked to do same weird ritual. Sometimes even the bear waited the boar above the same tree for a hour and than climbed to the branch kinda playng with the huge boar. But one day a tragedy happened. Branch suddenly crashed and the bear fell exactly on the head of the boar... Both animals were shocked, suddenly became very aggressive to each other and a mortal fight began. The bear killed the boar but the boar succeeded to penetrate with his sharp canine teeth the bear's abdominal aria and it also died not long after that later found by hunters... Don't know how this old story from the hunting novel is true, but in generally bears are enough smart animals and probably sometimes could be in "playing mood" with other animals.

In general brown bears of course have a weight advantage to the boar. As long as I know the largest both brown bears and wild boars in Europe live in Carphatian mountains in Romanian Transilvania (also known as a "Draculla-land") with average weight of adult male Carphatian brown bear at 260 kg and average weight of adult male Carpathian wild boar of about 110-130 kg if I am not wrong. So that is 2,3 times advantage of the body mass... and such a struggle would not be very fear. But in case a boar is huge (the record for Romania is 275 kg) and equal to the bear's mass he could be formidable adversary. I don't think that a wild boar could kill a brown bear, but for sure sometimes boars inflict a wounds on the bears trying to hunt them, and the prove of this is that sometimes the hunters discover a broken boar's canine teeth in bear's flash.

Interesting, and they do have medium-sized boars and bears (but super rare) in the native mountains in the west of the country. I'm from Bulgaria and never heard of that myself lol! Thanks for sharing.
Ти си от България? Направо ме разби.... И аз съм от там, от 8 години сме в Ванкувър. Къде учите?
Расказът доколкото си спомням се казва "Клонът" или нещо такова и беше включен в някакъв сборник от ловни раскази, нищо чудно авторът да беше чехословак или от ГДР вече не помня.

Two guys from Bulgaria in one forum is a little bit amazing...

Oh I'm sorry...couldn't read what you wrote because I only know a little bit of Bulgarian. Had to use Google Translate for some of it lol!

I was born in Bulgaria (mother from Angola, Africa and father a native Bulgarian) in 1998 and came here as an infant in 2000, but being only an infant in Bulgaria, I didn't know much Bulgarian when I came to the US. Even though my parents speak to each other in Bulgarian, I became more accustomed to the ways and motions of America and spoke English to them. To this day I still do, although most of my Bulgarian friends speak Bulgarian since they lived there for a long time before coming here. I also study construction engineering at Virginia Tech in Virginia, US. 

I don't want to derail this thread into more personal matters, so we can just PM each other instead!

Plan on going back to Varna with my father right after graduation. Some of my relatives live there! :)
"Be the reason someone smiles. Be the reason someone feels loved and believes in the goodness in people."

- Roy T. Bennett
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India brotherbear Offline
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https://www.researchgate.net/publication...ral_Alaska  
 
Radio-collared grizzly bears (Ursus arctos) were sighted daily for approximately 1-month periods during spring, summer, and fall to estimate predation rates. Predation rates on adult moose (Alces alces) were highest in spring, lowest in summer, and intermediate in fall. The highest kill rates were by male grizzlies killing cow moose during the calving period. We estimated that each adult male grizzly killed 3.3–3.9 adult moose annually, each female without cub(s) killed 0.6–0.8 adult moose and 0.9–1.0 adult caribou (Rangifer tarandus) annually, and each adult bear killed at least 5.4 moose calves annually. Grizzly predation rates on calves and grizzly density were independent of moose density and are probably more related to area-specific factors, e.g., availability of alternative foods. An important implication of our results is that managers should not allow moose densities to decline to low levels, because grizzlies can have a greater relative impact on low- than on high-density moose populations and because grizzly predation can be difficult to reduce. Grizzly bears were primarily predators, rather than scavengers, in this area of low prey availability (11 moose/grizzly bear); bears killed four times more animal biomass than they scavenged.

Predation on moose and caribou by radio-collared grizzly bears in east central Alaska (PDF Download Available). Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/238015031_Predation_on_moose_and_caribou_by_radio-collared_grizzly_bears_in_east_central_Alaska [accessed Jan 17 2018].
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India brotherbear Offline
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www.researchgate.net/publication/290297996_Grizzly_bear_predation_on_a_bull_bison_in_Yellowstone_national_park

... Previous studies (Mattson 1997; Schwartz et al. 2014 ) identified ungulate meat as an alternative food for grizzly bears during years exhibiting poor whitebark pine cone production. The importance of ungulates [mule deer (Odocoileus hemionus), elk, moose, and bison] for grizzly bears in the GYE is well documented, both as prey and for scavenging opportunities (Schleyer 1983; Gunther and Renkin 1989; Mattson et al. 1991; Green et al. 1997; Mattson 1997; Wyman 2002). Bison experienced large fluctuations in abundance due to disease management, but overall increased during the study period (Cross et al. 2010; White et al. 2011 ). ...

... Grizzlies also hunt actively for wapiti calves (Cole, 1972). Grizzlies are capable of killing adult bison and have been observed killing a bison calf, although most wildlife experts point out that bison are much better defenders of their young than elk or caribou (Varley and Gunther, 2002; Wyman, 2002). However, we can be fairly sure that some bison calves would have fallen prey to grizzly bears. ...

... Most meat consumed by extant brown bears is from ungulates of various sizes (Clevenger & Purroy, 1991). Scavenging is the most common form of animal resource procurement (Mattson, 1997; Wyman, 2002). Because bears do not move carcasses to their dens, they are most likely to be found in archaeological contexts of hibernation, where several events can be identified, or even in the same areas occupied by other carnivores or hominids (Andrews & Fernández Jalvo, 1997; Stiner, 1998a Stiner, , 1998b Pinto & Andrews, 2002; ...
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India brotherbear Offline
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www.tolweb.org/treehouses/?treehouse_id=4728

Hunting Techniques.
When searching for prey, grizzlies primarily rely on their acute sense of smell by bowing their heads low to the ground and sniffing while they walk.  They also capitalize on their sight and hearing by periodically standing on their hind legs to gain a better view of their surroundings as well as hear further.  While standing, they turn their head and ears in various directions to scan the area.  Most of the time, a bear will not know where a herd of ungulates is located and can spend up to several hours conducting a search.  Grizzlies are usually searching for calves that are lying down and sleeping, or bedding calves, as these are the easiest to catch.  When a herd is located, the bear will pace around a 200 m radius where the herd was just previously standing in hopes of finding a bedding calf.  While doing this, the bear will avoid being seen by the herd.

Army cutworm moths, Euxoa auxiliaris, are an important food source for some grizzly populations. Image © Whitney Cranshaw
When a bedding calf cannot be found, a grizzly can resort to a chase or an ambush to catch its prey.  The bear will stalk a herd closely while remaining unseen, and suddenly attack with a burst of speed.  They will focus on straggling calves that lag behind the herd and have little protection from adults.  When the bear closes in on its prey it can knock it over with its muzzle or paw, and will usually begin eating the abdomen of the calf to quickly kill the victim.  Grizzlies have been seen waiting on the edges of forests near fields and meadows for herds to enter where they can easily ambush their prey.
Large numbers of grizzly bears on the Absaroca Mountains in Yellowstone National Park rely heavily on army cutworm moths (Euxoa auxiliaris) as a main source of nutrition during the months of late June to mid September (French et al, 1994).  Large numbers of moths arrive here during flowering season, and during the day take shelter under large rocks covering the side of the mountain.  After locating a cluster of moths by their scent, the bears move rocks, dig and excavate until they find the moths.  Although bears are found in large groups here, there is little social tension as plenty of food reduces the need for competition.  Moth eating Grizzlies have also been found on Talus slopes in the Mission Mountains of Montana and in Glacier National Park.
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Canada Wolverine Offline
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( This post was last modified: 01-20-2018, 11:46 AM by Wolverine )

(01-16-2018, 07:03 AM)Polar Wrote: [quote pid='49997' dateline='1516063808']

Interesting, and they do have medium-sized boars and bears (but super rare) in the native mountains in the west of the country. 

[/quote]
There are from 600 to 800 brown bears in Bulgaria, mainly in major mountain arias and lot of wild boars everywhere.
But the largest brown bear population in European Union is in neighbouring Romania - 4300 bears and also 3000 timber wolves and 2000 lynx - in Romania live 50% of all big predators in Europe (excluding Russia). They inhabit mainly the huge endless forests of Transylvania covering 80 000 sq. km. Both brown bears and boars in Romania belong to large subspecies.
http://wildcarpathiaadventure.ro/en/tur/...arnivores/
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United States Pckts Offline
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Wild boar v sloth bear.
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*This image is copyright of its original author


I doubt this is much of a predatory event but more of a territorial one but I'm sure the bear wouldn't turn down an easy meal if it could catch one.
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India brotherbear Offline
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Interesting Pckts. I was watching a documentary not so long ago about Indian wildlife. The camera was trained on a pack of wild boar feeding off the ground. I can't remember what they were eating ( acorns or fruit perhaps ). But what I do remember was the sloth bear who suddenly walked right down to where the wild hogs were feeding. He took over the available food. There were a fairly large number of the wild boar. But they fled from the single sloth bear. I was surprised. I don't believe that sloth bears are very predatory. If they hunt at all; probably very rarely. But it was clear that the wild boars feared him.
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United States Pckts Offline
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(01-23-2018, 10:56 PM)brotherbear Wrote: Interesting Pckts. I was watching a documentary not so long ago about Indian wildlife. The camera was trained on a pack of wild boar feeding off the ground. I can't remember what they were eating ( acorns or fruit perhaps ). But what I do remember was the sloth bear who suddenly walked right down to where the wild hogs were feeding. He took over the available food. There were a fairly large number of the wild boar. But they fled from the single sloth bear. I was surprised. I don't believe that sloth bears are very predatory. If they hunt at all; probably very rarely. But it was clear that the wild boars feared him.

They've attacked and killed humans so they pose a threat.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
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Canada Wolverine Offline
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( This post was last modified: 05-04-2018, 01:31 PM by Wolverine )

Brown bear hunts wild boars and catch a cub:




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Mexico Shir Babr Offline
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I was looking forward to this thread, but to put it mildly, is fanboyish. There are some appreciated and on point contributions, but most pages are filled by those dubious old stories about giant bears who would karate-chop charging bulls à la Masutatsu Oyama movie, pretended as proof of the brown bear prowess as predator. Are you kidding me?

Honestly, how is that different from statements by people from the same period of time or even later claiming that wolves and pumas were bloodthirsty man-eaters, that lions killed prey by breaking their necks with a paw strike, that a lion would jump a 2 meter tall fence carrying a bull in its mouth, a tiger killing a tusker or a wolverine killing a polar bear? Is nonsense!

Funny thing. In the same tales you have these monster bears that can kill any bull with a single paw swipe, whilst at the same time could be safely captured by three men with ropes or be overwhelmed by rats in the same type of events where a 12 kilo terrier would kill a hundred without risk...

In Spain people used to pit their bulls against wild animals, and according to them, the bull was victorious, while in America people claimed that bears were the winners. Isn't it weird? Is almost like people were biased towards their respective national animals... Not to mention how uneducated people were and have always been known for greatly exaggerate animal sizes and feats in a way to satanize them by pretending they're monsters and justify their slaughter, and present themselves as "brave hunters".

The difference is, there are videos of Spanish fighting bulls gutting horses bigger than themselves with a single gore. Unlike wild animals, these kind of bulls were artificially breed for aggression and wont back down even injured. Yet you claim that a brown bear can kill any bull hands down. Is just not realistic.

At this point I'm surprised you haven't claimed that those images of brown bears feeding on beached whales prove that they can capture big cetaceans...

Besides, is it supposed to be astounding that a big bear, protected by a lot of fat, that isn't psychologically inhibited to avoid injuries (that could hamper its abilities and lead it starvation), can displace lighter animals that can't afford such injuries? Is not, if they have an advantage is not because they're "better".

Big brown bears can only develop in northern places were highly nutritious food is plentiful, of easy access, and competition is low, i.e. only where salmon is a keystone species. So let's stop pretending that bears in the Southwest US  were giants.

You even went as far as dismissing someone that brought up sloth bears, when in fact sloth bears are proportionally tougher because they evolved among larger predators and mega herbivores. They're also better armed than browns.

I'm curious about the cognitive dissonance when comparing those old wive's tales about grizzlies to the actual forensic and video evidence. Because in the videos posted here and many others I've watched, we have (mostly) successful predation on calves, piglets and small bears and cubs, attacks on weakened ungulates (like that boar that wasn't even trying to fight back), attempts on swimming (helpless) moose, and I remember a documentary where a grizzly attacked an already tired caribou (caribous aren't big) that had been previously injured by wolves, and the bear had a hard time bringing it down, even suffering a few antler blows, luckily antlers aren't as effective or deadly as bovine horns... even humans that have survived being mauled in the head. In all cases the bears used their (relatively short) canines -as all carnivores- as its main means to do damage. No great efficiency, no masterfully placed bull killing karate chops to be found neither. How telling.

I love brown bears, because they're an amazing polymorphic species, not because I anthropomorphize them as "fighters", neither I'm deluded to declare they're the most "badass" carnivores alive, when in fact, they're among the less carnivore and most mediocre predators in the Order.

And by the way, I'm just pointing out that this thread is mostly comprised of anecdotes unrelated to real bear predation; I don't mean to start one of those dumb and pointless "X vs. Y" discussions. I LOATHE THOSE. That's why I stopped visiting Carnivora forum years ago, there was nothing but fanboys irrationally cheering their favorite team. Just pointing out that the title is misleading and ought to be named "grizzly bear stories". Regards.
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Argentina Tshokwane Offline
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( This post was last modified: 05-22-2018, 04:50 PM by Tshokwane )

(05-22-2018, 08:05 AM)Shir Babr Wrote: I was looking forward to this thread, but to put it mildly, is fanboyish. There are some appreciated and on point contributions, but most pages are filled by those dubious old stories about giant bears who would karate-chop charging bulls à la Masutatsu Oyama movie, pretended as proof of the brown bear prowess as predator. Are you kidding me?

Chill down, mate, come on.

If there's something Brotherbear isn't is a fan boy.

Yes, many of the posts come from books, from stories, personal , first hand experiences and also, I'm sure, tales a little bit exaggerated. 

And all of that is clearly stated by him many times.

(05-22-2018, 08:05 AM)Shir Babr Wrote: And by the way, I'm just pointing out that this thread is mostly comprised of anecdotes unrelated to real bear predation;

Just pointing out that the title is misleading and ought to be named "grizzly bear stories".

It's his thread, his work, so I don't think anyone can say how he can call it.

Now, to be fair, I think the thread serves as both. 

With anecdotes of the likes he enjoys reading, from books and this older, classical style, but also with more modern and also more accurate hunting attempts.
‘Like night-watchmen they patrol the dark nights; marching with intent and chasing all those unwanted into the shadows…those that do not run are removed’
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