There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
02-28-2019, 02:31 PM( This post was last modified: 02-28-2019, 02:39 PM by johnny rex )
(02-10-2019, 08:17 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote:
(02-06-2019, 12:09 AM)peter Wrote:
(01-25-2019, 03:31 AM)epaiva Wrote:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Interesting, Epaiva. Could you get hold of the precise measurements (in mm.) of all skulls and add a few details (source, age, year, gender, captive, wild)? Things like that. The more details, the better.
It would be very nice if you could show all skulls of big cats next to each other. This will enable readers to see the differences between them at a glance. Thanks in advance.
Is possible for a modern lion/tiger skull to attain above 30 cm in the zygomatic width?
Here is a male liger skull from the online taxidermist @oddarticulations.
The total length is 410 mm and width is 308 mm, the rostrum looks to be around 135 mm.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
I just asked @oddarticulations on Instagram about the current measurements of the largest liger skull. It is actually 409.58mm long and 299.40mm wide. Do skulls shrink in size after awhile?
But anyway, I do think the largest modern tiger and lion skull (liger skull included) should be around 17 inches in length and around 12 inches in width.
Interesting, Epaiva. Could you get hold of the precise measurements (in mm.) of all skulls and add a few details (source, age, year, gender, captive, wild)? Things like that. The more details, the better.
It would be very nice if you could show all skulls of big cats next to each other. This will enable readers to see the differences between them at a glance. Thanks in advance.
Is possible for a modern lion/tiger skull to attain above 30 cm in the zygomatic width?
Here is a male liger skull from the online taxidermist @oddarticulations.
The total length is 410 mm and width is 308 mm, the rostrum looks to be around 135 mm.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
I just asked @oddarticulations on Instagram about the current measurements of the largest liger skull. It is actually 409.58mm long and 299.40mm wide. Do skulls shrink in size after awhile?
But anyway, I do think the largest modern tiger and lion skull (liger skull included) should be around 17 inches in length and around 12 inches in width.
I remember, that when I searched for information about it, that how bones change in time when drying after death, that there is some marginal change in size. It was some time ago and not the easiest issue to find good information. But as far as I remember, bones (and naturally including skull) do shrink marginally in time. But I don´t feel comfortable to put here any estimations because I don´t remember now too well, that what was meant by marginal there.
Interesting, Epaiva. Could you get hold of the precise measurements (in mm.) of all skulls and add a few details (source, age, year, gender, captive, wild)? Things like that. The more details, the better.
It would be very nice if you could show all skulls of big cats next to each other. This will enable readers to see the differences between them at a glance. Thanks in advance.
Is possible for a modern lion/tiger skull to attain above 30 cm in the zygomatic width?
Here is a male liger skull from the online taxidermist @oddarticulations.
The total length is 410 mm and width is 308 mm, the rostrum looks to be around 135 mm.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
I just asked @oddarticulations on Instagram about the current measurements of the largest liger skull. It is actually 409.58mm long and 299.40mm wide. Do skulls shrink in size after awhile?
But anyway, I do think the largest modern tiger and lion skull (liger skull included) should be around 17 inches in length and around 12 inches in width.
I remember, that when I searched for information about it, that how bones change in time when drying after death, that there is some marginal change in size. It was some time ago and not the easiest issue to find good information. But as far as I remember, bones (and naturally including skull) do shrink marginally in time. But I don´t feel comfortable to put here any estimations because I don´t remember now too well, that what was meant by marginal there.
AFAIK according to someone in Quora.com when someone asked does cranium shrink as we age, the bones do not shrink. The cartilage between moving bones can compress so it's possible that the skeleton can get shorter. But the skull is composed of immobile interlocking bones, so it doesn't change size. I don't know.
Interesting, Epaiva. Could you get hold of the precise measurements (in mm.) of all skulls and add a few details (source, age, year, gender, captive, wild)? Things like that. The more details, the better.
It would be very nice if you could show all skulls of big cats next to each other. This will enable readers to see the differences between them at a glance. Thanks in advance.
Is possible for a modern lion/tiger skull to attain above 30 cm in the zygomatic width?
Here is a male liger skull from the online taxidermist @oddarticulations.
The total length is 410 mm and width is 308 mm, the rostrum looks to be around 135 mm.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
I just asked @oddarticulations on Instagram about the current measurements of the largest liger skull. It is actually 409.58mm long and 299.40mm wide. Do skulls shrink in size after awhile?
But anyway, I do think the largest modern tiger and lion skull (liger skull included) should be around 17 inches in length and around 12 inches in width.
I remember, that when I searched for information about it, that how bones change in time when drying after death, that there is some marginal change in size. It was some time ago and not the easiest issue to find good information. But as far as I remember, bones (and naturally including skull) do shrink marginally in time. But I don´t feel comfortable to put here any estimations because I don´t remember now too well, that what was meant by marginal there.
AFAIK according to someone in Quora.com when someone asked does cranium shrink as we age, the bones do not shrink. The cartilage between moving bones can compress so it's possible that the skeleton can get shorter. But the skull is composed of immobile interlocking bones, so it doesn't change size. I don't know.
Yes it is one thing, when alive. But after death there are other kind of changes. That issue is surprisingly difficult to find clear information from internet. But when any tissue dries it happens to shrink same time. Bone naturally much less than some softer tissue.
02-28-2019, 10:33 PM( This post was last modified: 02-28-2019, 10:36 PM by GrizzlyClaws )
(02-28-2019, 02:31 PM)johnny rex Wrote:
(02-10-2019, 08:17 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote:
(02-06-2019, 12:09 AM)peter Wrote:
(01-25-2019, 03:31 AM)epaiva Wrote:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Interesting, Epaiva. Could you get hold of the precise measurements (in mm.) of all skulls and add a few details (source, age, year, gender, captive, wild)? Things like that. The more details, the better.
It would be very nice if you could show all skulls of big cats next to each other. This will enable readers to see the differences between them at a glance. Thanks in advance.
Is possible for a modern lion/tiger skull to attain above 30 cm in the zygomatic width?
Here is a male liger skull from the online taxidermist @oddarticulations.
The total length is 410 mm and width is 308 mm, the rostrum looks to be around 135 mm.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
I just asked @oddarticulations on Instagram about the current measurements of the largest liger skull. It is actually 409.58mm long and 299.40mm wide. Do skulls shrink in size after awhile?
But anyway, I do think the largest modern tiger and lion skull (liger skull included) should be around 17 inches in length and around 12 inches in width.
I don't think the skull would get shrunk, but rather after being fully cleaned; the flesh and tissue around the skull have been fully removed.
BTW, it is still a very large and robust skull. And can you make more inquiry to @oddarticulations about the weight of the skull and canine tooth?
03-01-2019, 11:47 AM( This post was last modified: 03-01-2019, 11:55 AM by johnny rex )
(02-28-2019, 10:33 PM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote:
(02-28-2019, 02:31 PM)johnny rex Wrote:
(02-10-2019, 08:17 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote:
(02-06-2019, 12:09 AM)peter Wrote:
(01-25-2019, 03:31 AM)epaiva Wrote:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Interesting, Epaiva. Could you get hold of the precise measurements (in mm.) of all skulls and add a few details (source, age, year, gender, captive, wild)? Things like that. The more details, the better.
It would be very nice if you could show all skulls of big cats next to each other. This will enable readers to see the differences between them at a glance. Thanks in advance.
Is possible for a modern lion/tiger skull to attain above 30 cm in the zygomatic width?
Here is a male liger skull from the online taxidermist @oddarticulations.
The total length is 410 mm and width is 308 mm, the rostrum looks to be around 135 mm.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
I just asked @oddarticulations on Instagram about the current measurements of the largest liger skull. It is actually 409.58mm long and 299.40mm wide. Do skulls shrink in size after awhile?
But anyway, I do think the largest modern tiger and lion skull (liger skull included) should be around 17 inches in length and around 12 inches in width.
I don't think the skull would get shrunk, but rather after being fully cleaned; the flesh and tissue around the skull have been fully removed.
BTW, it is still a very large and robust skull. And can you make more inquiry to @oddarticulations about the weight of the skull and canine tooth?
He did said the skull is slightly swollen when it was still wet so I think you're right and he didn't used calipers when he measured the skull previously. The second time he measured the skull with calipers, he eventually got the accurate measurements.
Do you mean length of the canine teeth? The full length of its canines including the root is 5' straightline. He still didn't weigh the skull because it is still not fully cleaned.
Interesting, Epaiva. Could you get hold of the precise measurements (in mm.) of all skulls and add a few details (source, age, year, gender, captive, wild)? Things like that. The more details, the better.
It would be very nice if you could show all skulls of big cats next to each other. This will enable readers to see the differences between them at a glance. Thanks in advance.
Is possible for a modern lion/tiger skull to attain above 30 cm in the zygomatic width?
Here is a male liger skull from the online taxidermist @oddarticulations.
The total length is 410 mm and width is 308 mm, the rostrum looks to be around 135 mm.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
I just asked @oddarticulations on Instagram about the current measurements of the largest liger skull. It is actually 409.58mm long and 299.40mm wide. Do skulls shrink in size after awhile?
But anyway, I do think the largest modern tiger and lion skull (liger skull included) should be around 17 inches in length and around 12 inches in width.
I don't think the skull would get shrunk, but rather after being fully cleaned; the flesh and tissue around the skull have been fully removed.
BTW, it is still a very large and robust skull. And can you make more inquiry to @oddarticulations about the weight of the skull and canine tooth?
He did said the skull is slightly swollen when it was still wet so I think you're right and he didn't used calipers when he measured the skull previously. The second time he measured the skull with calipers, he eventually got the accurate measurements.
Do you mean length of the canine teeth? The full length of its canines including the root is 5' straightline. He still didn't weigh the skull because it is still not fully cleaned.
Had he weighed the 5' canine tooth so far?
Just need to know the weight of his largest liger canine tooth.
Interesting, Epaiva. Could you get hold of the precise measurements (in mm.) of all skulls and add a few details (source, age, year, gender, captive, wild)? Things like that. The more details, the better.
It would be very nice if you could show all skulls of big cats next to each other. This will enable readers to see the differences between them at a glance. Thanks in advance.
Is possible for a modern lion/tiger skull to attain above 30 cm in the zygomatic width?
Here is a male liger skull from the online taxidermist @oddarticulations.
The total length is 410 mm and width is 308 mm, the rostrum looks to be around 135 mm.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
I just asked @oddarticulations on Instagram about the current measurements of the largest liger skull. It is actually 409.58mm long and 299.40mm wide. Do skulls shrink in size after awhile?
But anyway, I do think the largest modern tiger and lion skull (liger skull included) should be around 17 inches in length and around 12 inches in width.
I don't think the skull would get shrunk, but rather after being fully cleaned; the flesh and tissue around the skull have been fully removed.
BTW, it is still a very large and robust skull. And can you make more inquiry to @oddarticulations about the weight of the skull and canine tooth?
He did said the skull is slightly swollen when it was still wet so I think you're right and he didn't used calipers when he measured the skull previously. The second time he measured the skull with calipers, he eventually got the accurate measurements.
Do you mean length of the canine teeth? The full length of its canines including the root is 5' straightline. He still didn't weigh the skull because it is still not fully cleaned.
Had he weighed the 5' canine tooth so far?
Just need to know the weight of his largest liger canine tooth.
Not yet, because he told me the canines are still at the casters.
04-12-2019, 06:27 PM( This post was last modified: 04-12-2019, 06:28 PM by GreenGrolar )
There is a lot of good information on this thread. I usually stay out of bear and big cat topics as things get heated. My opinion on the comparison of anatomy. Cats are powerful animals and have deadly claws and a better killing bite, however, the bulkier built of bears plus their denser bones gives the stronger forearms etc and thus making bears more powerful than pantherines and felines pound to pound. Bears at equal length are also heavier and taller than cats at similar lengths.
(04-12-2019, 06:27 PM)GreenGrolar Wrote: There is a lot of good information on this thread. I usually stay out of bear and big cat topics as things get heated. My opinion on the comparison of anatomy. Cats are powerful animals and have deadly claws and a better killing bite, however, the bulkier built of bears plus their denser bones gives the stronger forearms etc and thus making bears more powerful than pantherines and felines pound to pound. Bears at equal length are also heavier and taller than cats at similar lengths.
The bear's body structure is designed to take more punishment. Therefore, the big cats would need better weaponry to inflict more damage if they have a chance to grapple on a vulnerable spot.
(04-12-2019, 06:27 PM)GreenGrolar Wrote: There is a lot of good information on this thread. I usually stay out of bear and big cat topics as things get heated. My opinion on the comparison of anatomy. Cats are powerful animals and have deadly claws and a better killing bite, however, the bulkier built of bears plus their denser bones gives the stronger forearms etc and thus making bears more powerful than pantherines and felines pound to pound. Bears at equal length are also heavier and taller than cats at similar lengths.
The bear's body structure is designed to take more punishment. Therefore, the big cats would need better weaponry to inflict more damage if they have a chance to grapple on a vulnerable spot.
Agreed. I still believe a tiger and lion can put up a good fight at parity although the bear will be the victor ultimately. The anatomy of bears still allows them to carry more weight. For example a tiger or lion at 700 pounds plus will probably be overweight and tire easily whereas a brown bear and polar bear can reach 1000 pounds plus and still move relatively quickly and is not considered overweight. Thats just how their body is built.
07-30-2019, 07:13 AM( This post was last modified: 07-30-2019, 07:15 AM by peter )
(03-14-2019, 03:29 AM)epaiva Wrote: Panthera tigris sondaica - Javan Tiger in Natural History Museum in Oudenbosch, Netherlands
Credit to @poelmo3579
*This image is copyright of its original author
Didn't vist that museum yet, but that will change. Very nice skull.
Although Sumatra and Java are separated by the narrow Sunda Straights, Sumatran tigers are very different from Javan tigers, PC. Javan tigers often have the typical Shere Khan mandibula (concave), a vaulted profile and a narrow occiput, which is not true for many Sumatran tigers.
