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ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)
ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)
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ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)
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 (05-02-2019, 02:25 AM)Sanju Wrote:(04-28-2019, 12:37 AM)Pckts Wrote: Cont'dAll those beautiful tigers.. A good news is that now even Wikipedia is taking the view about there being 6 subspecies more seriously (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger#Subspecies), in light of the genetic study in 2018 (https://www.cell.com/current-biology/ful...all%3Dtrue), so hopefully, people don't just listen to the Cat Specialist Group's assertion in 2017 about there being only 2 subspecies (https://repository.si.edu/bitstream/hand...sAllowed=y). 
@BorneanTiger Hmm...
 (05-02-2019, 07:48 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote: Wikipedia is taking the view about there being 6 subspecies more seriouslyWell, I'm a wiki editor too. (05-02-2019, 07:48 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote:(05-02-2019, 02:25 AM)Sanju Wrote:(04-28-2019, 12:37 AM)Pckts Wrote: Cont'dAll those beautiful tigers.. I find it more interesting, that when you look WWF site(s), vast majority and their main site have 6 subspecies even today there. I wonder if they wait for something or are they just lazy to update :) Could be both :) But then again not all biologists agree with cat specialist group in this matter so some instance can wait and see still how discussion and studies continue. One interesting thing would be to know has it had any influence for instance to Amur tiger conservation. Somehow I have this feeling, that not. http://wwf.panda.org/tigers.cfm (05-02-2019, 09:14 PM)Shadow Wrote:(05-02-2019, 07:48 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote:(05-02-2019, 02:25 AM)Sanju Wrote:(04-28-2019, 12:37 AM)Pckts Wrote: Cont'dAll those beautiful tigers.. Not only would there be disagreement with the Cat Specialist Group, but also within the group. 2 of the people who insisted that there are indeed 6 subspecies (https://www.cell.com/current-biology/ful...all%3Dtrue), Carlos Driscoll and Shu-Jin Luo, are members of the Cat Specialist Group (Page 2: https://repository.si.edu/bitstream/hand...sAllowed=y). I wonder why this would happen, did Driscoll and Luo want to prove to the other members that their classification in 2017 about there being only 2 subspecies had to be revised? (05-02-2019, 09:28 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote:(05-02-2019, 09:14 PM)Shadow Wrote:(05-02-2019, 07:48 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote:(05-02-2019, 02:25 AM)Sanju Wrote:(04-28-2019, 12:37 AM)Pckts Wrote: Cont'dAll those beautiful tigers.. Well science is not always so simple, not the first time there are contradictions in it how something should be considered and what kind of conclusions. Many kind of speculations are possible. Sometimes it would be interesting to be a fly on the roof of the room, where these people argue  I was looking at same thing, that 2 people wanted to put their disagreement public and also participated then to new study. We will see what happens in next 1-2 years.
lol, I am the Tijkil guy on wikipedia who brought out the issue. We will just have to wait to see what the scientists say. But like i said (on wiki), wikipedia should reflect the general consensus, ask any zoologist or anybody who is experienced with tigers and they will tell you and be able to differentiate between the subspecies.
And yes, two scientists who were working for the cat specialist group were the ones who done the study a year later that shows 6 subspecies. They did more research and took diferent approaches.  (05-02-2019, 09:28 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote:(05-02-2019, 09:14 PM)Shadow Wrote:(05-02-2019, 07:48 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote:(05-02-2019, 02:25 AM)Sanju Wrote:(04-28-2019, 12:37 AM)Pckts Wrote: Cont'dAll those beautiful tigers.. One interesting thing to see is website of Cat Specialist Group at the moment, today. When you look at information about tiger and open part Description. When we remember it, that many people seek information from websites and then we look at that site and what it tells to people... For me it looks like, that they haven´t been able to find consensus yet in science community. It looks something like asking: Yes or no? And getting answer: I don´t know. http://www.catsg.org/index.php?id=124 
THE SUNDERBANS
a - Climate change Every now and then, tropical storms hit India. The northeastern part in particular has quite a reputation in this respect. Although wild animals seem to be able to get to weather forecasts themselves, finding a refuge isn't easy. One of the reasons they drown every now and then is a lack of room to move in case of an emergency. Based on what is known (referring to countless studies on climate change), it's more than likely that the number of severe storms will increase in the next decades. Islands and coastal regions will be affected most. One of the regions expected to disappear almost completely is the Sunderbans. I got this link from a friend a few days ago. Could be of interest, she said. I agree: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/06/science/tigers-climate-change-sundarbans.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share b - Man-eating tigers Sunderban tigers have long been an enigma. In the last two decades the region, to a degree, has opened some of its doors. Today, there are quite a few videos in which wild Sunderban tigers feature. Research is getting more attention of the general public as well. Most of what I read is interesting, but 'Spell of the tiger' (S. Montgomery, 1995) still tops my list. I completely agree with Elizabeth Marshall Thomas (author of 'The tribe of tiger'): " ... Not since Jim Corbett wrote Man-eaters of Kumaon has there been a better book on tigers. Never has there been a better book on the coastal forests of India and Bangladesh and the people who inhabit them. Spell of the tiger is a work of genius, filled with beauty and suspence ... " (E.M. Thomas). Jim Corbett, born and raised in circumstances that enabled him to get to intimate knowledge about the natural world in the days it was far more present than today, was very informed about the habits of the man-eating tigers he hunted. On his own, he was able to contact and outwit them. Or was he? When reading his book, it's easy to get to the conclusion that just about everything is possible when you have what is needed. That conclusion, however, would only be part of it. Knowledge and experience no doubt are important, but hunting an experienced man-eating big cat also requires well-developed senses, quick thinking and, most of all, a decent amount of what we call 'luck'. Luck, however, wouldn't quite cover it. There is a difference between luck (partly affected by trained senses and sound decisions) and coincidence (not affected by any kind of skill). It's not easy to describe the difference, but Sy Montgomery's attempt is interesting. I'm not referring to what she wrote (great), but to what she didn't write (even better). Some things can't be described. They need to be sensed and, when possible, painted. Or suggested in another way. Montgomery got close. My guess is Jim Corbett would agree with that conclusion. He knew about the sense triggered by impeding danger, but felt unable to describe it. He did say it is very real and those who read his book most probably agree. In spite of his skill and the accurate descriptions he offered, coincidence and luck were always close. Over the years, I visited a number of wild regions. Based on what I saw, I'd say that most of those living in regions that have dangerous predators know next to nothing about the habits and intentions of their wild neighbours. The hole caused by a lack of knowledge and interest often is filled with convictions based on religion, superstition and hearsay (in the western hemisphere we prefer preference and outright ignorance). The usual result is accidents. Every year, many hundreds are killed by wild animals. Every now and then, however, you'll find a Corbett of some kind. Most of those I met were somewhat different from the others. They usually kept their distance. Only few of them had hunted large predators. Too dangerous, they thought. In their opinion, big cats are thinking animals and individuality is as pronounced as in humans. You never know, that is. I'm not too sure about the Sunderbans, but I do know that some of those employed by the Forest Service (both in India and Bangladesh) have hunted man-eating tigers. One of them wrote a book that was discussed some years ago, but I never heard about this man: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjfUH1i3Uuc In spite of the recent documentaries, the Sunderbans is an unknown and mysterious region. One that, apart from severe storms, has tigers, sharks, large crocs and an unknown number of snakes able to kill a human in less than an hour. Every year, humans are killed by tigers. Most of those killed had a permit to collect honey. They're the ones you see in statistics. Those killed without a permit remain invisible, just like the tigers. Although opportunism always is important, there's no doubt that experienced man-eaters are heavily involved. Some of them deliberately follow boats and strike at night. The skill displayed by these specialists is quite incredible. Specialists seldom fail, but every now and then the victim survives. Some get away with a few scratches, but others, like this poor man, are maimed for life: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXu5r18xqX4 (05-11-2019, 05:54 PM)Shadow Wrote:(05-02-2019, 09:28 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote:(05-02-2019, 09:14 PM)Shadow Wrote:(05-02-2019, 07:48 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote:(05-02-2019, 02:25 AM)Sanju Wrote:(04-28-2019, 12:37 AM)Pckts Wrote: Cont'dAll those beautiful tigers.. They also kept the pages on the African lion (http://www.catsg.org/index.php?id=108&L=...31%3Fid%3D) and Asiatic lion (http://www.catsg.org/index.php?id=113), despite the fact that they're no longer seen as subspecies, with the Asiatic lion being grouped with lions in northern parts of Africa, including the Barbary lion, as Panthera leo leo, which might sound peculiar because the geographical separation between African and Indian lions is far greater than that between the Sumatran tiger in the Sunda Islands and the Malayan tiger in Mainland Asia, and it seems unanimous amongst geneticists and taxonomists, be it the Cat Specialist Group (https://repository.si.edu/bitstream/hand...sAllowed=y), or the 'rebels' Driscoll and Luo (https://www.cell.com/current-biology/ful...all%3Dtrue), that the Sumatran tiger is not the same subspecies as its Mainland Asian cousins. As in, the Sumatran tiger is either a different subspecies, or member of a different subspecies, to its mainland Asian cousins, but the Asiatic lion is not a different subspecies to all African lions, despite the vast geographical separation. Either way, it seems that the CSG recognized that the 2017 revision of subspecies of lions and tigers is not enough to not treat the different populations of lions and tigers separately. For instance, people know that the Amur tiger of Northeast Asia is geographically, genetically and morphologically different to the Bengal tiger of South Asia, in the same way that people know that African and Asiatic lions are geographically and morphologically different to each other (even if not so much genetically), and a change in taxonomy doesn't change that, looking at the body of modern literature or media on these types of lions and tigers, even post-2017. 
Considering the evidence for big cats in Europe, including the Caspian tiger, from the work of authors like Heptner and Sludskii (https://archive.org/stream/mammalsofsov2...2/mode/2up), or even ancient or prehistoric statues or images like this Bronze Age lion statue from Italy or Spain that was displayed at the Louvre Abu Dhabi (Chapter 3, Page 52: https://tcaabudhabi.ae/DataFolder/report...-%20EN.pdf), I am thinking of making a new thread on big cats in Europe, bear with me on this.
(04-15-2019, 07:41 PM)peter Wrote: Interview with Pavelo Fomenko after he was attacked by the tigress. As we can see his face is badly mauled. Remarkable man. Despite his injuries in the video he makes a passionate speech for the protection of Amur tiger. He says that as icon specie, top of the food chain and harismatic animal the tiger is like un umbrella which protect all other species, without tiger the governments will not give money for the protection of the forests and other wild animals. He says that without tigers Ussuri forest would be much more boring place, etc. And this is a film about Fomenko before he was injured, as we can see on his face. One year before the accident like predicting his fate he says: "Life in the Ussuri forest is dangerous, you can get lost, you can get frozen, you can be attacked by big predator, its easy to die down there":  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
(05-16-2019, 08:05 AM)Wolverine Wrote: @peter your inbox is over-loaded and shows "quota for messages is reached" so in this moment is not possible to connect with you. Problem solved. Shadow joined the team. He'll do Finland, bears and big cats. I also want you in. Let us know what section you want. If tigers, my proposal is to start with Russia (research and Russian literature). Translations and summaries appreciated. Good post on Pavel Fomenko, a remarkable man. As a mod, you can contact him on behalf of WildFact. If you do, wish him well. The world needs people like him and his collegues. (05-17-2019, 10:13 AM)Wolverine Wrote:(04-15-2019, 07:41 PM)peter Wrote: Speaking of the Siberian tiger's close relative, the Caspian tiger, like I mentioned here: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-europea...9#pid81909 [quote pid='81909' dateline='1558198804'] ... it is likely that the tiger didn't just inhabit or occur in Transcaucasia or South Caucasus (Armenia, Azerbaijan and Georgia), but also in Ciscaucasia: *This image is copyright of its original author The tiger in this famous image from Berlin Zoo in 1999 was from the Caucasus: https://web.archive.org/web/200708240914...ger-13.htm  *This image is copyright of its original author Also, they mention an 11th-century Eastern European account from the book Poucheniya Detyam by Vladimir II Monomakh, Grand Prince of Kievan Rus', a state that is regarded as a cultural ancestor of the Ukraine, Belurus and Russia (not the 'Rus' in the latter 2 names). Map of Kievan Rus': https://02varvara.wordpress.com/2010/02/...h-century/  *This image is copyright of its original author In this account, Monomakh, while he ruled Turov (in modern-day Belarus), and Chernigrov (in modern-day Ukraine), he was on a hunt when he was attacked by a lyuti zver (лютый зверь, Old Russian for "fierce animal"). The zver sprang towards his thighs, and hurt him and his horse. Traditionally, the zver was considered to be a wolf or lynx, but according to Heptner and Sludskii, neither would spring at a rider or injure a horse, so it was more likely to be a big cat, with some people thinking that it could have been a leopard, or that it was more likely to be a tiger than a lion. The occurrence of the lion at the southern Russian Steppes, or the area of the mouth of the Don River, is disputed by Heptner and Sludskiy, whereas according to them, tigers likely occurred in the Russian Steppes or at the estuary of the Don River: https://archive.org/stream/mammalsofsov2...lyuti+zver *This image is copyright of its original author *This image is copyright of its original author The manner of this attack reminds me of this famous video from India: Also, this statue of a tiger attacking a man is in the area of Mount Akhun near Sochi, which as I mentioned above is in North Caucasus: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:...untain.JPG  *This image is copyright of its original author [/quote] |
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