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We were discussing the situation at Elephant Plains, on the Kruger thread, and it got me thinking about the things that happened back then. The loss of Rasta was a really big blow, just as the loss of KT was even bigger, but, I still believe that the loss of Dreadlocks, to poachers, was the biggest loss to the 6 Mapogos. They had been able to regroup and recover from all of the others, and Dreadlocks played a big role in that. Once Dreadlocks was killed, the end of the Mapogo reign came relatively quickly afterwards.
(12-13-2024, 10:43 PM)BA0701 Wrote: We were discussing the situation at Elephant Plains, on the Kruger thread, and it got me thinking about the things that happened back then. The loss of Rasta was a really big blow, just as the loss of KT was even bigger, but, I still believe that the loss of Dreadlocks, to poachers, was the biggest loss to the 6 Mapogos. They had been able to regroup and recover from all of the others, and Dreadlocks played a big role in that. Once Dreadlocks was killed, the end of the Mapogo reign came relatively quickly afterwards.
This is something I agree with completely. I thought Rasta was also lost to humans...
(12-13-2024, 10:43 PM)BA0701 Wrote: We were discussing the situation at Elephant Plains, on the Kruger thread, and it got me thinking about the things that happened back then. The loss of Rasta was a really big blow, just as the loss of KT was even bigger, but, I still believe that the loss of Dreadlocks, to poachers, was the biggest loss to the 6 Mapogos. They had been able to regroup and recover from all of the others, and Dreadlocks played a big role in that. Once Dreadlocks was killed, the end of the Mapogo reign came relatively quickly afterwards.
This is something I agree with completely. I thought Rasta was also lost to humans...
I had, at one time, believed that as a possibility as well, however, I have since come to think that something else happened to him. Originally, has been mentioned, there are those who say that Rasta disappeared, after some interaction, between unknown lions in EP, that was not witnessed, but then we are told that Rasta was actually seen after that incident. Not long after that, though, Rasta vanished, and PB was also seen badly injured, one of several such occurrences. I am not sure of the time span, between Rasta's disappearance and PB's injuries.
Dreadlocks was the “nail in coffin” I guess for the mapogo I know we can’t do what ifs but if dreadlocks had been around when the selatis arrived I think things would be different Mr T was the only one that was “healthy” and in fighting condition in 2012… but whatever happened to Rasta we know the majinagline caught pretty boy but he survived I mean he was beaten pretty badly
(12-13-2024, 10:43 PM)BA0701 Wrote: We were discussing the situation at Elephant Plains, on the Kruger thread, and it got me thinking about the things that happened back then. The loss of Rasta was a really big blow, just as the loss of KT was even bigger, but, I still believe that the loss of Dreadlocks, to poachers, was the biggest loss to the 6 Mapogos. They had been able to regroup and recover from all of the others, and Dreadlocks played a big role in that. Once Dreadlocks was killed, the end of the Mapogo reign came relatively quickly afterwards.
Ye his death very quickly signified the end of them, eventhough they held off for Selatis a few times, it was never enough. It’s always been said that around the time he died, Dreadlocks could have been the most dominant at that time, if he doesn’t die they prolly hold off the Selatis longer than they did and are able to raise their cubs, would likely have some male offspring that survived too.
Altogether tho it wouldn’t have changed a lot, PB still would have eventually succumb to TB, although maybe not as fast still being a pride male, Makhulu still likely would have passed away in 2013 being he was 15. Would have been hard for Dreadlocks and T to do anything other than raise their current cubs before being ousted themselves.
Nothing worse than a lion not being able to choose his own way out, and I genuinely do believe they know these things. When they go into territorial fights, they know their life is on the line but see a greater upside to fighting and being able to keep onto the pride they have, I don’t at all think it’s just all instinctual. There’s too many videos like HB going in circles, constantly changing his scent and throwing the Majingilanes off to accept they’re not atleast partly knowledgeable in their actions.
The following 1 user Likes KM600's post:1 user Likes KM600's post • BA0701
12-14-2024, 02:52 AM( This post was last modified: 12-14-2024, 02:52 AM by BA0701 )
(12-14-2024, 02:44 AM)KM600 Wrote:
(12-13-2024, 10:43 PM)BA0701 Wrote: We were discussing the situation at Elephant Plains, on the Kruger thread, and it got me thinking about the things that happened back then. The loss of Rasta was a really big blow, just as the loss of KT was even bigger, but, I still believe that the loss of Dreadlocks, to poachers, was the biggest loss to the 6 Mapogos. They had been able to regroup and recover from all of the others, and Dreadlocks played a big role in that. Once Dreadlocks was killed, the end of the Mapogo reign came relatively quickly afterwards.
Ye his death very quickly signified the end of them, eventhough they held off for Selatis a few times, it was never enough. It’s always been said that around the time he died, Dreadlocks could have been the most dominant at that time, if he doesn’t die they prolly hold off the Selatis longer than they did and are able to raise their cubs, would likely have some male offspring that survived too.
Altogether tho it wouldn’t have changed a lot, PB still would have eventually succumb to TB, although maybe not as fast still being a pride male, Makhulu still likely would have passed away in 2013 being he was 15. Would have been hard for Dreadlocks and T to do anything other than raise their current cubs before being ousted themselves.
Nothing worse than a lion not being able to choose his own way out, and I genuinely do believe they know these things. When they go into territorial fights, they know their life is on the line but see a greater upside to fighting and being able to keep onto the pride they have, I don’t at all think it’s just all instinctual. There’s too many videos like HB going in circles, constantly changing his scent and throwing the Majingilanes off to accept they’re not atleast partly knowledgeable in their actions.
100%, I agree that lions have the ability of forethought, strategizing, and preplanning. They are a lot more than simple minded automatons. The video of Fang and Ololashe <sp?> is absolute proof of this, in my opinion, it has cemented these things in my mind, for sure. Another one is watching Jesse sneak crouch down, sneaking through the weeds, in order to still get the female.
(12-13-2024, 10:43 PM)BA0701 Wrote: We were discussing the situation at Elephant Plains, on the Kruger thread, and it got me thinking about the things that happened back then. The loss of Rasta was a really big blow, just as the loss of KT was even bigger, but, I still believe that the loss of Dreadlocks, to poachers, was the biggest loss to the 6 Mapogos. They had been able to regroup and recover from all of the others, and Dreadlocks played a big role in that. Once Dreadlocks was killed, the end of the Mapogo reign came relatively quickly afterwards.
Ye his death very quickly signified the end of them, eventhough they held off for Selatis a few times, it was never enough. It’s always been said that around the time he died, Dreadlocks could have been the most dominant at that time, if he doesn’t die they prolly hold off the Selatis longer than they did and are able to raise their cubs, would likely have some male offspring that survived too.
Altogether tho it wouldn’t have changed a lot, PB still would have eventually succumb to TB, although maybe not as fast still being a pride male, Makhulu still likely would have passed away in 2013 being he was 15. Would have been hard for Dreadlocks and T to do anything other than raise their current cubs before being ousted themselves.
Nothing worse than a lion not being able to choose his own way out, and I genuinely do believe they know these things. When they go into territorial fights, they know their life is on the line but see a greater upside to fighting and being able to keep onto the pride they have, I don’t at all think it’s just all instinctual. There’s too many videos like HB going in circles, constantly changing his scent and throwing the Majingilanes off to accept they’re not atleast partly knowledgeable in their actions.
100%, I agree that lions have the ability of forethought, strategizing, and preplanning. They are a lot more than simple minded automatons. The video of Fang and Ololashe <sp?> is absolute proof of this, in my opinion, it has cemented these things in my mind, for sure. Another one is watching Jesse sneak crouch down, sneaking through the weeds, in order to still get the female.
I also agree with you guys that these animals got something else other than instincts. If they were pure instinct, all their actions were predictable and that's not the case despite the fact that most of their actions are based upon instincts.
(12-13-2024, 10:43 PM)BA0701 Wrote: We were discussing the situation at Elephant Plains, on the Kruger thread, and it got me thinking about the things that happened back then. The loss of Rasta was a really big blow, just as the loss of KT was even bigger, but, I still believe that the loss of Dreadlocks, to poachers, was the biggest loss to the 6 Mapogos. They had been able to regroup and recover from all of the others, and Dreadlocks played a big role in that. Once Dreadlocks was killed, the end of the Mapogo reign came relatively quickly afterwards.
Yeah, they were still the strongest coalition around before Dreadlocks died, though even before his death, they had already given up on their entire north and east territory, accepting the Majingilane rule, which came with Rasta's death and PB's injuries. Even after PB very quickly full recovery, they never attempted to challenge Majingilane for Londolozi, Northern Sector or MalaMala. I think, however, that if Mr.T had not killed the Ximungwe cubs, bringing the females back to estrus, there might have been a chance for them to make another move against Majingilane.
Still, technically speaking, Dreadlocks wasn't poached, to say he was poached would be to say someone illegally sneaked into the reserve and shot him, but he was killed outside Sabi Sands and the demand to kill him instead of allowing him to get darted and brought back, came from leaders of some local tribes.
But anyway, back to the dynamics, lion strategy or whatever, one should give full credit to Majingilane, I'm sure luck always plays its role, but the bond, intelligence, coordination and teamplay of the Majingis was out of this world, they had competition and clashes with coalitions of 6 ( Mapogo, Matimba ), 5 ( Bboys ), 4 ( Selati ), 3 ( Sand Rivers ) and never lost any members, hell, no member has even been seriously injured, their only lost ever was that of 5th in their first territorial challenge, after that they went into an insane spree off successfully competing with other males.
12-15-2024, 09:59 AM( This post was last modified: 12-15-2024, 10:02 AM by Mapokser )
(12-14-2024, 02:41 AM)Ttimemarti Wrote: Dreadlocks was the “nail in coffin” I guess for the mapogo I know we can’t do what ifs but if dreadlocks had been around when the selatis arrived I think things would be different Mr T was the only one that was “healthy” and in fighting condition in 2012… but whatever happened to Rasta we know the majinagline caught pretty boy but he survived I mean he was beaten pretty badly
Mr.T was still primeish, but the others were in fighting condition too, just not as strong as Mr.T, it was the fights against the Selatis in early 2012 that left PB and Makhulu too weak to compete. Guides thought at the time that Mapogo were favored against the much younger Selatis and I don't blame them, had PB not been caught alone, they may have had the upper hand, but after that they were doomed.
Rasta vanished at the same time PB showed up badly injured ( in late July 2010 ), and 2 Majingis were reported to have injuries too, we even have pics of injured Majingi that date that exact same time.
Guides straight up said they thought Mapogo fought the Majingi, Rasta died and PB was badly beaten, the narrative only became complex and heated because of Mapogo fanatics creating drama, attacking guides, accusing reserve from poaching Rasta and so on.
It went pretty much like this, chronologically speaking:
1. Mr.T returns in early July 2010, Mapogo then move to Londolozi together for the first time in many many months, roaring while Majingis were further east:
*This image is copyright of its original author
2. Few days later, July 9, audio of some clash between lions happens, Majingis probably involved, maybe attacking Tsalala pride or something:
3. Few days later, July 2010, all 5 Mapogo filmed roaring in Leopard Hills by Dave Pusey:
OG post is still up in the Londolozi blog to this very day, shared on July 14:
Such stuff had been posted in this thread already years ago.
4. Few days later, around July 19, Pretty Boy shows up in Singita, he was badly injured, had a bent spine with punctures on his back and himdlimbs, he was also bullied by his 2 Othawa subadults sons while injured:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Days later ( July 30-August 2 ), Rob Vamphew films PB's injuries, 3:23:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Around the same time, in late July 2010, Rob Rutner takes pics of 4 Majingi with a lioness in the North, Arathusa. We can see fresh injuries in at least one of the Majingilane:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
A month later, in August, when asked, Idube replies that yes, it seems Rasta was killed by Majingilane because he hasn't been seen since the fight that left PB badly injured and 2 Majingis seen badly battered:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Around a month later, early Octuber, Rob Vamhpew films 3 Mapogo ( Dreadlocks, Mr.T, and PB ) patrolling together, he tells his guests, at 2:05 of the video, that Pretty Boy was caught in a big fight when the Mapogo went to try to fight the new coalition, adding that PB and his twin brother took the brunt of that fight, and that "the other one [Rasta] died, we think":
5. Elehphant Plains reports for July and August says the Majingilane took over the North from the Mapogo after killing 2 of their members, Kinky Tail and Pretty Boy ( they mistook PB for Rasta ), the OG reports can be read here: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-the-mig...s?page=104
6. In conclusion, we have a pretty straightfoward narrative: Majingi challenges Mlowathi, 5th & KT dies, Mr.T is ousted from the North, MalaMala and Londolozi > Mr.T goes back West > Mapogo start venturing East, mainly Londolozi, to investigate and confront the Majingilane > a big fight happens around July 19 leaving PB badly injured, Rasta dead and 2 Majingis pretty beaten up > By August 2010 Mapogos had relinquished their claims over any territory east of Singita, accepting the Majingilane rule as neighbors.
Obviously, there's no absolute proof Rasta was killed in the same fight PB was injured, nor even killed by Majingilane instead of by literally anything else, but given the evidence we have, using common sense, it's very likely that this was what exactly what happened.
(12-14-2024, 02:41 AM)Ttimemarti Wrote: Dreadlocks was the “nail in coffin” I guess for the mapogo I know we can’t do what ifs but if dreadlocks had been around when the selatis arrived I think things would be different Mr T was the only one that was “healthy” and in fighting condition in 2012… but whatever happened to Rasta we know the majinagline caught pretty boy but he survived I mean he was beaten pretty badly
Mr.T was still primeish, but the others were in fighting condition too, just not as strong as Mr.T, it was the fights against the Selatis in early 2012 that left PB and Makhulu too weak to compete. Guides thought at the time that Mapogo were favored against the much younger Selatis and I don't blame them, had PB not been caught alone, they may have had the upper hand, but after that they were doomed.
Rasta vanished at the same time PB showed up badly injured ( in late July 2010 ), and 2 Majingis were reported to have injuries too, we even have pics of injured Majingi that date that exact same time.
Guides straight up said they thought Mapogo fought the Majingi, Rasta died and PB was badly beaten, the narrative only became complex and heated because of Mapogo fanatics creating drama, attacking guides, accusing reserve from poaching Rasta and so on.
It went pretty much like this, chronologically speaking:
1. Mr.T returns in early July 2010, Mapogo then move to Londolozi together for the first time in many many months, roaring while Majingis were further east:
*This image is copyright of its original author
2. Few days later, July 9, audio of some clash between lions happens, Majingis probably involved, maybe attacking Tsalala pride or something:
3. Few days later, July 2010, all 5 Mapogo filmed roaring in Leopard Hills by Dave Pusey:
OG post is still up in the Londolozi blog to this very day, shared on July 14:
Such stuff had been posted in this thread already years ago.
4. Few days later, around July 19, Pretty Boy shows up in Singita, he was badly injured, had a bent spine with punctures on his back and himdlimbs, he was also bullied by his 2 Othawa subadults sons while injured:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Days later ( July 30-August 2 ), Rob Vamphew films PB's injuries, 3:23:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Around the same time, in late July 2010, Rob Rutner takes pics of 4 Majingi with a lioness in the North, Arathusa. We can see fresh injuries in at least one of the Majingilane:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
A month later, in August, when asked, Idube replies that yes, it seems Rasta was killed by Majingilane because he hasn't been seen since the fight that left PB badly injured and 2 Majingis seen badly battered:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Around a month later, early Octuber, Rob Vamhpew films 3 Mapogo ( Dreadlocks, Mr.T, and PB ) patrolling together, he tells his guests, at 2:05 of the video, that Pretty Boy was caught in a big fight when the Mapogo went to try to fight the new coalition, adding that PB and his twin brother took the brunt of that fight, and that "the other one [Rasta] died, we think":
5. Elehphant Plains reports for July and August says the Majingilane took over the North from the Mapogo after killing 2 of their members, Kinky Tail and Pretty Boy ( they mistook PB for Rasta ), the OG reports can be read here: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-the-mig...s?page=104
6. In conclusion, we have a pretty straightfoward narrative: Majingi challenges Mlowathi, 5th & KT dies, Mr.T is ousted from the North, MalaMala and Londolozi > Mr.T goes back West > Mapogo start venturing East, mainly Londolozi, to investigate and confront the Majingilane > a big fight happens around July 19 leaving PB badly injured, Rasta dead and 2 Majingis pretty beaten up > By August 2010 Mapogos had relinquished their claims over any territory east of Singita, accepting the Majingilane rule as neighbors.
Obviously, there's no absolute proof Rasta was killed in the same fight PB was injured, nor even killed by Majingilane instead of by literally anything else, but given the evidence we have, using common sense, it's very likely that this was what exactly what happened.
It makes sense but some stuff doesn’t make sense too me. I had always heard Rasta and pretty boy went east if Rasta had been killed then how did pretty boy walk away with bad injuries and escape. Only 2 things could’ve happened 1 is a definite pretty boy was caught and beaten up badly either Rasta was also killed or something else which left pretty boy alone and he got beaten up but I’ve come to the conclusion that I have no idea and I’m ready to put it to bed for good lol but thank you for that, but I’m not saying he was poached its just that many lions died during the mapogo era due to humans so it’s always an unfortunate option that it may have happened but without anyone seeing what happened we’ll never know so either he was killed by the majin or poached but given the location I’m leaning towards him dying due to other lions
(12-14-2024, 02:41 AM)Ttimemarti Wrote: Dreadlocks was the “nail in coffin” I guess for the mapogo I know we can’t do what ifs but if dreadlocks had been around when the selatis arrived I think things would be different Mr T was the only one that was “healthy” and in fighting condition in 2012… but whatever happened to Rasta we know the majinagline caught pretty boy but he survived I mean he was beaten pretty badly
Mr.T was still primeish, but the others were in fighting condition too, just not as strong as Mr.T, it was the fights against the Selatis in early 2012 that left PB and Makhulu too weak to compete. Guides thought at the time that Mapogo were favored against the much younger Selatis and I don't blame them, had PB not been caught alone, they may have had the upper hand, but after that they were doomed.
Rasta vanished at the same time PB showed up badly injured ( in late July 2010 ), and 2 Majingis were reported to have injuries too, we even have pics of injured Majingi that date that exact same time.
Guides straight up said they thought Mapogo fought the Majingi, Rasta died and PB was badly beaten, the narrative only became complex and heated because of Mapogo fanatics creating drama, attacking guides, accusing reserve from poaching Rasta and so on.
It went pretty much like this, chronologically speaking:
1. Mr.T returns in early July 2010, Mapogo then move to Londolozi together for the first time in many many months, roaring while Majingis were further east:
*This image is copyright of its original author
2. Few days later, July 9, audio of some clash between lions happens, Majingis probably involved, maybe attacking Tsalala pride or something:
3. Few days later, July 2010, all 5 Mapogo filmed roaring in Leopard Hills by Dave Pusey:
OG post is still up in the Londolozi blog to this very day, shared on July 14:
Such stuff had been posted in this thread already years ago.
4. Few days later, around July 19, Pretty Boy shows up in Singita, he was badly injured, had a bent spine with punctures on his back and himdlimbs, he was also bullied by his 2 Othawa subadults sons while injured:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Days later ( July 30-August 2 ), Rob Vamphew films PB's injuries, 3:23:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Around the same time, in late July 2010, Rob Rutner takes pics of 4 Majingi with a lioness in the North, Arathusa. We can see fresh injuries in at least one of the Majingilane:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
A month later, in August, when asked, Idube replies that yes, it seems Rasta was killed by Majingilane because he hasn't been seen since the fight that left PB badly injured and 2 Majingis seen badly battered:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Around a month later, early Octuber, Rob Vamhpew films 3 Mapogo ( Dreadlocks, Mr.T, and PB ) patrolling together, he tells his guests, at 2:05 of the video, that Pretty Boy was caught in a big fight when the Mapogo went to try to fight the new coalition, adding that PB and his twin brother took the brunt of that fight, and that "the other one [Rasta] died, we think":
5. Elehphant Plains reports for July and August says the Majingilane took over the North from the Mapogo after killing 2 of their members, Kinky Tail and Pretty Boy ( they mistook PB for Rasta ), the OG reports can be read here: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-the-mig...s?page=104
6. In conclusion, we have a pretty straightfoward narrative: Majingi challenges Mlowathi, 5th & KT dies, Mr.T is ousted from the North, MalaMala and Londolozi > Mr.T goes back West > Mapogo start venturing East, mainly Londolozi, to investigate and confront the Majingilane > a big fight happens around July 19 leaving PB badly injured, Rasta dead and 2 Majingis pretty beaten up > By August 2010 Mapogos had relinquished their claims over any territory east of Singita, accepting the Majingilane rule as neighbors.
Obviously, there's no absolute proof Rasta was killed in the same fight PB was injured, nor even killed by Majingilane instead of by literally anything else, but given the evidence we have, using common sense, it's very likely that this was what exactly what happened.
It makes sense but some stuff doesn’t make sense too me. I had always heard Rasta and pretty boy went east if Rasta had been killed then how did pretty boy walk away with bad injuries and escape. Only 2 things could’ve happened 1 is a definite pretty boy was caught and beaten up badly either Rasta was also killed or something else which left pretty boy alone and he got beaten up but I’ve come to the conclusion that I have no idea and I’m ready to put it to bed for good lol but thank you for that, but I’m not saying he was poached its just that many lions died during the mapogo era due to humans so it’s always an unfortunate option that it may have happened but without anyone seeing what happened we’ll never know so either he was killed by the majin or poached but given the location I’m leaning towards him dying due to other lions
But what have changed from than to now that we thankfully dont see that much lions getting poached in Kruger? Atleast in Sabi Sands and well known reserves ( Maniyeleti its his own case)
(12-14-2024, 02:41 AM)Ttimemarti Wrote: Dreadlocks was the “nail in coffin” I guess for the mapogo I know we can’t do what ifs but if dreadlocks had been around when the selatis arrived I think things would be different Mr T was the only one that was “healthy” and in fighting condition in 2012… but whatever happened to Rasta we know the majinagline caught pretty boy but he survived I mean he was beaten pretty badly
Mr.T was still primeish, but the others were in fighting condition too, just not as strong as Mr.T, it was the fights against the Selatis in early 2012 that left PB and Makhulu too weak to compete. Guides thought at the time that Mapogo were favored against the much younger Selatis and I don't blame them, had PB not been caught alone, they may have had the upper hand, but after that they were doomed.
Rasta vanished at the same time PB showed up badly injured ( in late July 2010 ), and 2 Majingis were reported to have injuries too, we even have pics of injured Majingi that date that exact same time.
Guides straight up said they thought Mapogo fought the Majingi, Rasta died and PB was badly beaten, the narrative only became complex and heated because of Mapogo fanatics creating drama, attacking guides, accusing reserve from poaching Rasta and so on.
It went pretty much like this, chronologically speaking:
1. Mr.T returns in early July 2010, Mapogo then move to Londolozi together for the first time in many many months, roaring while Majingis were further east:
*This image is copyright of its original author
2. Few days later, July 9, audio of some clash between lions happens, Majingis probably involved, maybe attacking Tsalala pride or something:
3. Few days later, July 2010, all 5 Mapogo filmed roaring in Leopard Hills by Dave Pusey:
OG post is still up in the Londolozi blog to this very day, shared on July 14:
Such stuff had been posted in this thread already years ago.
4. Few days later, around July 19, Pretty Boy shows up in Singita, he was badly injured, had a bent spine with punctures on his back and himdlimbs, he was also bullied by his 2 Othawa subadults sons while injured:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Days later ( July 30-August 2 ), Rob Vamphew films PB's injuries, 3:23:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Around the same time, in late July 2010, Rob Rutner takes pics of 4 Majingi with a lioness in the North, Arathusa. We can see fresh injuries in at least one of the Majingilane:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
A month later, in August, when asked, Idube replies that yes, it seems Rasta was killed by Majingilane because he hasn't been seen since the fight that left PB badly injured and 2 Majingis seen badly battered:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Around a month later, early Octuber, Rob Vamhpew films 3 Mapogo ( Dreadlocks, Mr.T, and PB ) patrolling together, he tells his guests, at 2:05 of the video, that Pretty Boy was caught in a big fight when the Mapogo went to try to fight the new coalition, adding that PB and his twin brother took the brunt of that fight, and that "the other one [Rasta] died, we think":
5. Elehphant Plains reports for July and August says the Majingilane took over the North from the Mapogo after killing 2 of their members, Kinky Tail and Pretty Boy ( they mistook PB for Rasta ), the OG reports can be read here: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-the-mig...s?page=104
6. In conclusion, we have a pretty straightfoward narrative: Majingi challenges Mlowathi, 5th & KT dies, Mr.T is ousted from the North, MalaMala and Londolozi > Mr.T goes back West > Mapogo start venturing East, mainly Londolozi, to investigate and confront the Majingilane > a big fight happens around July 19 leaving PB badly injured, Rasta dead and 2 Majingis pretty beaten up > By August 2010 Mapogos had relinquished their claims over any territory east of Singita, accepting the Majingilane rule as neighbors.
Obviously, there's no absolute proof Rasta was killed in the same fight PB was injured, nor even killed by Majingilane instead of by literally anything else, but given the evidence we have, using common sense, it's very likely that this was what exactly what happened.
It makes sense but some stuff doesn’t make sense too me. I had always heard Rasta and pretty boy went east if Rasta had been killed then how did pretty boy walk away with bad injuries and escape. Only 2 things could’ve happened 1 is a definite pretty boy was caught and beaten up badly either Rasta was also killed or something else which left pretty boy alone and he got beaten up but I’ve come to the conclusion that I have no idea and I’m ready to put it to bed for good lol but thank you for that, but I’m not saying he was poached its just that many lions died during the mapogo era due to humans so it’s always an unfortunate option that it may have happened but without anyone seeing what happened we’ll never know so either he was killed by the majin or poached but given the location I’m leaning towards him dying due to other lions
But what have changed from than to now that we thankfully dont see that much lions getting poached in Kruger? Atleast in Sabi Sands and well known reserves ( Maniyeleti its his own case)
I might not be the right one to answer this but it’s a anti poaching team but that’s as much as I know poaching in sabi sands has stopped but manyeleti does not have an anti poaching team I believe
(12-14-2024, 02:41 AM)Ttimemarti Wrote: Dreadlocks was the “nail in coffin” I guess for the mapogo I know we can’t do what ifs but if dreadlocks had been around when the selatis arrived I think things would be different Mr T was the only one that was “healthy” and in fighting condition in 2012… but whatever happened to Rasta we know the majinagline caught pretty boy but he survived I mean he was beaten pretty badly
Mr.T was still primeish, but the others were in fighting condition too, just not as strong as Mr.T, it was the fights against the Selatis in early 2012 that left PB and Makhulu too weak to compete. Guides thought at the time that Mapogo were favored against the much younger Selatis and I don't blame them, had PB not been caught alone, they may have had the upper hand, but after that they were doomed.
Rasta vanished at the same time PB showed up badly injured ( in late July 2010 ), and 2 Majingis were reported to have injuries too, we even have pics of injured Majingi that date that exact same time.
Guides straight up said they thought Mapogo fought the Majingi, Rasta died and PB was badly beaten, the narrative only became complex and heated because of Mapogo fanatics creating drama, attacking guides, accusing reserve from poaching Rasta and so on.
It went pretty much like this, chronologically speaking:
1. Mr.T returns in early July 2010, Mapogo then move to Londolozi together for the first time in many many months, roaring while Majingis were further east:
*This image is copyright of its original author
2. Few days later, July 9, audio of some clash between lions happens, Majingis probably involved, maybe attacking Tsalala pride or something:
3. Few days later, July 2010, all 5 Mapogo filmed roaring in Leopard Hills by Dave Pusey:
OG post is still up in the Londolozi blog to this very day, shared on July 14:
Such stuff had been posted in this thread already years ago.
4. Few days later, around July 19, Pretty Boy shows up in Singita, he was badly injured, had a bent spine with punctures on his back and himdlimbs, he was also bullied by his 2 Othawa subadults sons while injured:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Days later ( July 30-August 2 ), Rob Vamphew films PB's injuries, 3:23:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Around the same time, in late July 2010, Rob Rutner takes pics of 4 Majingi with a lioness in the North, Arathusa. We can see fresh injuries in at least one of the Majingilane:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
A month later, in August, when asked, Idube replies that yes, it seems Rasta was killed by Majingilane because he hasn't been seen since the fight that left PB badly injured and 2 Majingis seen badly battered:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Around a month later, early Octuber, Rob Vamhpew films 3 Mapogo ( Dreadlocks, Mr.T, and PB ) patrolling together, he tells his guests, at 2:05 of the video, that Pretty Boy was caught in a big fight when the Mapogo went to try to fight the new coalition, adding that PB and his twin brother took the brunt of that fight, and that "the other one [Rasta] died, we think":
5. Elehphant Plains reports for July and August says the Majingilane took over the North from the Mapogo after killing 2 of their members, Kinky Tail and Pretty Boy ( they mistook PB for Rasta ), the OG reports can be read here: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-the-mig...s?page=104
6. In conclusion, we have a pretty straightfoward narrative: Majingi challenges Mlowathi, 5th & KT dies, Mr.T is ousted from the North, MalaMala and Londolozi > Mr.T goes back West > Mapogo start venturing East, mainly Londolozi, to investigate and confront the Majingilane > a big fight happens around July 19 leaving PB badly injured, Rasta dead and 2 Majingis pretty beaten up > By August 2010 Mapogos had relinquished their claims over any territory east of Singita, accepting the Majingilane rule as neighbors.
Obviously, there's no absolute proof Rasta was killed in the same fight PB was injured, nor even killed by Majingilane instead of by literally anything else, but given the evidence we have, using common sense, it's very likely that this was what exactly what happened.
It makes sense but some stuff doesn’t make sense too me. I had always heard Rasta and pretty boy went east if Rasta had been killed then how did pretty boy walk away with bad injuries and escape. Only 2 things could’ve happened 1 is a definite pretty boy was caught and beaten up badly either Rasta was also killed or something else which left pretty boy alone and he got beaten up but I’ve come to the conclusion that I have no idea and I’m ready to put it to bed for good lol but thank you for that, but I’m not saying he was poached its just that many lions died during the mapogo era due to humans so it’s always an unfortunate option that it may have happened but without anyone seeing what happened we’ll never know so either he was killed by the majin or poached but given the location I’m leaning towards him dying due to other lions
But what have changed from than to now that we thankfully dont see that much lions getting poached in Kruger? Atleast in Sabi Sands and well known reserves ( Maniyeleti its his own case)
I might not be the right one to answer this but it’s a anti poaching team but that’s as much as I know poaching in sabi sands has stopped but manyeleti does not have an anti poaching team I believe
hmm interesting because back in the day you would hear lions getting poached or dissaperaing in Kruger never to be seen, nowadays things seems to have really calmed down and even lions that go into Kruger seem to be easly spotted, that is also due to anti poaching or do we got more information nowadays from Kruger and more people following lions? Im sorry to ask all this questions and thank you for your attention
(12-14-2024, 02:41 AM)Ttimemarti Wrote: Dreadlocks was the “nail in coffin” I guess for the mapogo I know we can’t do what ifs but if dreadlocks had been around when the selatis arrived I think things would be different Mr T was the only one that was “healthy” and in fighting condition in 2012… but whatever happened to Rasta we know the majinagline caught pretty boy but he survived I mean he was beaten pretty badly
Mr.T was still primeish, but the others were in fighting condition too, just not as strong as Mr.T, it was the fights against the Selatis in early 2012 that left PB and Makhulu too weak to compete. Guides thought at the time that Mapogo were favored against the much younger Selatis and I don't blame them, had PB not been caught alone, they may have had the upper hand, but after that they were doomed.
Rasta vanished at the same time PB showed up badly injured ( in late July 2010 ), and 2 Majingis were reported to have injuries too, we even have pics of injured Majingi that date that exact same time.
Guides straight up said they thought Mapogo fought the Majingi, Rasta died and PB was badly beaten, the narrative only became complex and heated because of Mapogo fanatics creating drama, attacking guides, accusing reserve from poaching Rasta and so on.
It went pretty much like this, chronologically speaking:
1. Mr.T returns in early July 2010, Mapogo then move to Londolozi together for the first time in many many months, roaring while Majingis were further east:
*This image is copyright of its original author
2. Few days later, July 9, audio of some clash between lions happens, Majingis probably involved, maybe attacking Tsalala pride or something:
3. Few days later, July 2010, all 5 Mapogo filmed roaring in Leopard Hills by Dave Pusey:
OG post is still up in the Londolozi blog to this very day, shared on July 14:
Such stuff had been posted in this thread already years ago.
4. Few days later, around July 19, Pretty Boy shows up in Singita, he was badly injured, had a bent spine with punctures on his back and himdlimbs, he was also bullied by his 2 Othawa subadults sons while injured:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Days later ( July 30-August 2 ), Rob Vamphew films PB's injuries, 3:23:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Around the same time, in late July 2010, Rob Rutner takes pics of 4 Majingi with a lioness in the North, Arathusa. We can see fresh injuries in at least one of the Majingilane:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
A month later, in August, when asked, Idube replies that yes, it seems Rasta was killed by Majingilane because he hasn't been seen since the fight that left PB badly injured and 2 Majingis seen badly battered:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Around a month later, early Octuber, Rob Vamhpew films 3 Mapogo ( Dreadlocks, Mr.T, and PB ) patrolling together, he tells his guests, at 2:05 of the video, that Pretty Boy was caught in a big fight when the Mapogo went to try to fight the new coalition, adding that PB and his twin brother took the brunt of that fight, and that "the other one [Rasta] died, we think":
5. Elehphant Plains reports for July and August says the Majingilane took over the North from the Mapogo after killing 2 of their members, Kinky Tail and Pretty Boy ( they mistook PB for Rasta ), the OG reports can be read here: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-the-mig...s?page=104
6. In conclusion, we have a pretty straightfoward narrative: Majingi challenges Mlowathi, 5th & KT dies, Mr.T is ousted from the North, MalaMala and Londolozi > Mr.T goes back West > Mapogo start venturing East, mainly Londolozi, to investigate and confront the Majingilane > a big fight happens around July 19 leaving PB badly injured, Rasta dead and 2 Majingis pretty beaten up > By August 2010 Mapogos had relinquished their claims over any territory east of Singita, accepting the Majingilane rule as neighbors.
Obviously, there's no absolute proof Rasta was killed in the same fight PB was injured, nor even killed by Majingilane instead of by literally anything else, but given the evidence we have, using common sense, it's very likely that this was what exactly what happened.
It makes sense but some stuff doesn’t make sense too me. I had always heard Rasta and pretty boy went east if Rasta had been killed then how did pretty boy walk away with bad injuries and escape. Only 2 things could’ve happened 1 is a definite pretty boy was caught and beaten up badly either Rasta was also killed or something else which left pretty boy alone and he got beaten up but I’ve come to the conclusion that I have no idea and I’m ready to put it to bed for good lol but thank you for that, but I’m not saying he was poached its just that many lions died during the mapogo era due to humans so it’s always an unfortunate option that it may have happened but without anyone seeing what happened we’ll never know so either he was killed by the majin or poached but given the location I’m leaning towards him dying due to other lions
But what have changed from than to now that we thankfully dont see that much lions getting poached in Kruger? Atleast in Sabi Sands and well known reserves ( Maniyeleti its his own case)
I might not be the right one to answer this but it’s a anti poaching team but that’s as much as I know poaching in sabi sands has stopped but manyeleti does not have an anti poaching team I believe
hmm interesting because back in the day you would hear lions getting poached or dissaperaing in Kruger never to be seen, nowadays things seems to have really calmed down and even lions that go into Kruger seem to be easly spotted, that is also due to anti poaching or do we got more information nowadays from Kruger and more people following lions? Im sorry to ask all this questions and thank you for your attention
Lions still get poached in Kruger I think but it’s less common I mean we saw k1 was caught in a snare a year ago and I believe south of sabi sands is a hot spot for poaching but again I’m not 100% on that
(12-14-2024, 02:41 AM)Ttimemarti Wrote: Dreadlocks was the “nail in coffin” I guess for the mapogo I know we can’t do what ifs but if dreadlocks had been around when the selatis arrived I think things would be different Mr T was the only one that was “healthy” and in fighting condition in 2012… but whatever happened to Rasta we know the majinagline caught pretty boy but he survived I mean he was beaten pretty badly
Mr.T was still primeish, but the others were in fighting condition too, just not as strong as Mr.T, it was the fights against the Selatis in early 2012 that left PB and Makhulu too weak to compete. Guides thought at the time that Mapogo were favored against the much younger Selatis and I don't blame them, had PB not been caught alone, they may have had the upper hand, but after that they were doomed.
Rasta vanished at the same time PB showed up badly injured ( in late July 2010 ), and 2 Majingis were reported to have injuries too, we even have pics of injured Majingi that date that exact same time.
Guides straight up said they thought Mapogo fought the Majingi, Rasta died and PB was badly beaten, the narrative only became complex and heated because of Mapogo fanatics creating drama, attacking guides, accusing reserve from poaching Rasta and so on.
It went pretty much like this, chronologically speaking:
1. Mr.T returns in early July 2010, Mapogo then move to Londolozi together for the first time in many many months, roaring while Majingis were further east:
*This image is copyright of its original author
2. Few days later, July 9, audio of some clash between lions happens, Majingis probably involved, maybe attacking Tsalala pride or something:
3. Few days later, July 2010, all 5 Mapogo filmed roaring in Leopard Hills by Dave Pusey:
OG post is still up in the Londolozi blog to this very day, shared on July 14:
Such stuff had been posted in this thread already years ago.
4. Few days later, around July 19, Pretty Boy shows up in Singita, he was badly injured, had a bent spine with punctures on his back and himdlimbs, he was also bullied by his 2 Othawa subadults sons while injured:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Days later ( July 30-August 2 ), Rob Vamphew films PB's injuries, 3:23:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Around the same time, in late July 2010, Rob Rutner takes pics of 4 Majingi with a lioness in the North, Arathusa. We can see fresh injuries in at least one of the Majingilane:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
A month later, in August, when asked, Idube replies that yes, it seems Rasta was killed by Majingilane because he hasn't been seen since the fight that left PB badly injured and 2 Majingis seen badly battered:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Around a month later, early Octuber, Rob Vamhpew films 3 Mapogo ( Dreadlocks, Mr.T, and PB ) patrolling together, he tells his guests, at 2:05 of the video, that Pretty Boy was caught in a big fight when the Mapogo went to try to fight the new coalition, adding that PB and his twin brother took the brunt of that fight, and that "the other one [Rasta] died, we think":
5. Elehphant Plains reports for July and August says the Majingilane took over the North from the Mapogo after killing 2 of their members, Kinky Tail and Pretty Boy ( they mistook PB for Rasta ), the OG reports can be read here: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-the-mig...s?page=104
6. In conclusion, we have a pretty straightfoward narrative: Majingi challenges Mlowathi, 5th & KT dies, Mr.T is ousted from the North, MalaMala and Londolozi > Mr.T goes back West > Mapogo start venturing East, mainly Londolozi, to investigate and confront the Majingilane > a big fight happens around July 19 leaving PB badly injured, Rasta dead and 2 Majingis pretty beaten up > By August 2010 Mapogos had relinquished their claims over any territory east of Singita, accepting the Majingilane rule as neighbors.
Obviously, there's no absolute proof Rasta was killed in the same fight PB was injured, nor even killed by Majingilane instead of by literally anything else, but given the evidence we have, using common sense, it's very likely that this was what exactly what happened.
It makes sense but some stuff doesn’t make sense too me. I had always heard Rasta and pretty boy went east if Rasta had been killed then how did pretty boy walk away with bad injuries and escape. Only 2 things could’ve happened 1 is a definite pretty boy was caught and beaten up badly either Rasta was also killed or something else which left pretty boy alone and he got beaten up but I’ve come to the conclusion that I have no idea and I’m ready to put it to bed for good lol but thank you for that, but I’m not saying he was poached its just that many lions died during the mapogo era due to humans so it’s always an unfortunate option that it may have happened but without anyone seeing what happened we’ll never know so either he was killed by the majin or poached but given the location I’m leaning towards him dying due to other lions
But what have changed from than to now that we thankfully dont see that much lions getting poached in Kruger? Atleast in Sabi Sands and well known reserves ( Maniyeleti its his own case)
I might not be the right one to answer this but it’s a anti poaching team but that’s as much as I know poaching in sabi sands has stopped but manyeleti does not have an anti poaching team I believe
hmm interesting because back in the day you would hear lions getting poached or dissaperaing in Kruger never to be seen, nowadays things seems to have really calmed down and even lions that go into Kruger seem to be easly spotted, that is also due to anti poaching or do we got more information nowadays from Kruger and more people following lions? Im sorry to ask all this questions and thank you for your attention
Lions still get poached in Kruger I think but it’s less common I mean we saw k1 was caught in a snare a year ago and I believe south of sabi sands is a hot spot for poaching but again I’m not 100% on that
It certainly still happens, but most definitely not to the degree it did so a decade ago. Northern Kruger is a deadly wasteland however as there isn't any regulation or policing up there. Sending lions there is straight up a death sentence. This may change in the near future as well however because people like Kevin Richardson who is slowly redirecting the funds from his foundation to conservation as the lions he has cared for for the past almost 3 decades are starting to pass, and he's said repeatedly his sanctuary will only be for wild rehabilitation and his foundation is going to work to create more land for wildlife. One of the projects he is currently working on with his foundation is Northern Kruger and he is getting funds up there to clear Snares and adding more patrols.
