History's most brutal killers, the Majingilane Male Lions

[HouseOfLions]

(11-24-2018, 08:07 AM)Tshokwane Wrote:

(11-23-2018, 06:00 PM)HouseOfLions Wrote: Did you not hear what the rangers said about T???? He fought them and was injured by them. He was seen limping while going back west. If he just engaged them for a bit and retreated, he wouldn't have gotten that limp and looked injured. So yes, he did fight them in a 1 vs 4.

(11-24-2018, 02:18 AM)AbcXyz Wrote: I didn't hear any ranger saying that Mr. T fought again the Majingilanes in 1 vs 4. Instead I heard that "Mr. T was slightly injured and ran west to join up with his four coalition brothers."

I hope that this doesn't turn into a "Mapogo thread 2", otherwise you are going to have to read my last post there and apply it here.

Now, this is what the reports actually say:

Lion Warfare – An Update: By Rich Laburn, July 1, 2010.

Quote:29 June – Mohawk Male (Satan) was seen with slight injuries in the river. He appeared to be heading north possibly to link up with the females.


29 June – The 4 new males from the Kruger were seen for the first time at Londolozi moving west across Marthly.  That night Mohawk Male was seen and heard roaring at Ximpalapala.  Not even 2km away the 4 males heard him and started roaring back.  Rangers stuck with them and the 4 headed west but so did Mohawk Male head west avoiding conflict.

30 June – In the morning there were tracks of at least 2 males seemingly chasing Mohawk Male west across our boundary.  The report from our western neighbor was that Mohawk Male (Satan) joined up with 3 other Mapogo on a Buffalo kill.

This alone should be enough to settle it.

Sorry, but what should this settle up??? That there wasn't a fight? Even when they themselves say there was a chase and would have been a fight? Reply

[Tshokwane]

(11-24-2018, 07:53 PM)HouseOfLions Wrote: Sorry, but what should this settle up??? That there wasn't a fight? Even when they themselves say there was a chase and would have been a fight?

That Mr.T, quite naturally, avoided a confrotation and, when chased by two of the boys, he went west and joined up his brothers.

The injuries they mention for June 29 must be the ones they and the 5th gave him back in June 5-6(yes, it takes that long to heal up), not from a new fight, that's why they said that day it was the very first time they saw the Majingilane in Londolozi, so there had not been a new fight. Reply

[AbcXyz]

(11-24-2018, 07:43 PM)HouseOfLions Wrote:

(11-24-2018, 02:18 AM)AbcXyz Wrote:

(11-23-2018, 06:00 PM)HouseOfLions Wrote:

(11-23-2018, 01:41 AM)AbcXyz Wrote:

(11-22-2018, 06:56 PM)HouseOfLions Wrote:

(11-13-2018, 10:39 PM)Silver60 Wrote: I watched a video about this famous night when Kinky Tail was killed by majingilanes. They follow the pair during the night. KT is described as the dominant male. It sounds strange because he's often presented as Mr T bodyguard. 
But in the video he is by far the most furious, chasing the majingilane. T looked really less angry !
But to rush them was really a bad idea, we know the outcome. Dark Mane was a master, he saw the opportunity and took it. 

I remeber another video : the pair meet tourists, T was very shy and cautious but KT just did not care at all. This lion was maybe really totally fearless ... 

Years later, it was T who decided to stand his ground against Selati males while Mak and PB prefered to vanish, maybe the explanation is about who is in charge. Maybe because the boss is the one who is full of confidence or maybe who has the most to lose.

KT was not described as the dominant male. T was always the dominant male and every ranger who say them said that. T won over kinky more. There are many reports when T was the one seen charging at lions, with Kinky only following later after.

At the beginning of that chase, both were chasing the manginjis away. T probably stopped because he saw they were running away and most of the time, that is enough. But yes, both kinky and T were fearless and their record number shows that.

Did you know, after kinky's death, TG faced the 4 manginjis by himself again. All alone in a 1 vs 4 like kinky.

Mr. T ripped nose says something else about domination inside the Mlowathis coalition. Anyway, Mr. T escaping from Majingilanes attack on Tsalalas, after KT's death, is far from "1 vs 4 like kinky".

Having a ripped nose does not mean he didn't win the fight. Lions get injured all the time, all that matters is that he WON that fight.

Did you not hear what the rangers said about T???? He fought them and was injured by them. He was seen limping while going back west. If he just engaged them for a bit and retreated, he wouldn't have gotten that limp and looked injured. So yes, he did fight them in a 1 vs 4.

The only difference is that kinky got killed while T didn't.

Show me the proof that he did win that fight.

I didn't hear any ranger saying that Mr. T fought again the Majingilanes in 1 vs 4. Instead I heard that "Mr. T was slightly injured and ran west to join up with his four coalition brothers." I also heard Rundle's opinion: "Quite frankly I never thought Mr T had it in him."

He won that fight as he was seen mating with the female while Kinky had a massive cut across his nose.

Show me the proof that Mr. T mated with a lioness after that fight.
Maybe you are confusing the events. I'm talking about this one:

Does KT has any injury in this video? Reply

[HouseOfLions]

(11-24-2018, 08:01 PM)Tshokwane Wrote:

(11-24-2018, 07:53 PM)HouseOfLions Wrote: Sorry, but what should this settle up??? That there wasn't a fight? Even when they themselves say there was a chase and would have been a fight?

That Mr.T, quite naturally, avoided a confrotation and, when chased by two of the boys, he went west and joined up his brothers.

The injuries they mention for June 29 must be the ones they and the 5th gave him back in June 5-6(yes, it takes that long to heal up), not from a new fight, that's why they said that day it was the very first time they saw the Majingilane in Londolozi, so there had not been a new fight.

Sorry but there were barely any injuries on Mr T after that fight. Kinky was more injured with his paw. T was in nearly tip top condition.

And this article doesn't mention there wasn't a fight after t was chased. He could have easily turned around and fought and then went back to his brothers. Reply

[Raj8143]

AT what age did they gave up and surrender their territory and became nomadic ? Reply

[Tshokwane]

(11-24-2018, 10:26 PM)HouseOfLions Wrote: Sorry but there were barely any injuries on Mr T after that fight.

That's what Londolozi said, yes. "Slight injuries".

(11-24-2018, 10:26 PM)HouseOfLions Wrote: And this article doesn't mention there wasn't a fight after t was chased. He could have easily turned around and fought and then went back to his brothers.

That's a bit of wishful thinking, honestly. 
This is the article you're referring to, the monthly Mala Mala archives:

Quote:June 2010


(8 years 7 months): (10 sightings)

This all happened in the first two weeks of the month and the rest of the month saw mostly a roaring contest between the remaining Mlowathi male and the 4 KNP males. The Mlowathi male has since recovered from his injuries and towards the end of the month settled with the Marthly pride eating two buffalo with them as he regained strength. However the 4 young males wanted the last say and caught up with the Marthly pride, killing 4 sub-adults and chasing the Mlowathi male off. The last we heard was that the Mlowathi male was with his three older Eyrefield brother to the west of Mala Mala, it will be very interesting if they will come across and challenge the 4 KNP males, it happened before with the Split Rock males.

Their report basically says the same thing that Londolozi's: 
- That Mr.T's injuries were minor enough for him to be recovered by the end of the month.
- When he roared the Majingilane roared back and went to hunt him down.
- He escaped, they chased him off and he went back to the bros in the west.
How you or anyone else decide to fill in the gaps the info has, well... that's up to you, but this is what the information we have says. Reply

[Tshokwane]

(11-24-2018, 10:56 PM)Raj8143 Wrote: AT what age did they gave up and surrender their territory and became nomadic ?

If you mean the Majingilane, they didn't surrender their territory. 

It's more of they were forced to move east to try to get some meals, because at that point they were in a bad physical condition, and of course age worsened that.

They were about 13-14 years old, which is grandpa age for a lion. Reply

[Potato]

You sure aren't they born between end of 2005 to beggining 2006. Aren't they same age as Matimbas which would make them about 12 and half years old by the time of their death? Reply

[Tshokwane]

(11-24-2018, 11:32 PM)Potato Wrote: You sure aren't they born between end of 2005 to beggining 2006.

No one knows exactly when they were born, the general consensus is that they were born in 2005, but it's an estimation.

(11-24-2018, 11:32 PM)Potato Wrote: Aren't they same age as Matimbas

They were about 6 months to a year older than the Matimba males. Reply

[Potato]

If they would be 13-14 years old by time their death that would make them 6-7 years old by the time of their first arrival on Londolozi. They would be full maned adult lions if it would be true. No way! I am now looking at their pictures from that time and they definitely do not look for such age. They look like 3-4 years old to my eye. Do someone know who is that Tara Pirie(from the pic)?
some pics:
https://www.google.se/imgres?imgurl=http...mrc&uact=8
https://www.google.se/imgres?imgurl=http...mrc&uact=8
https://www.facebook.com/Majingilane.Lio...%22R%22%7D Reply

[HouseOfLions]

(11-24-2018, 11:12 PM)Tshokwane Wrote:

(11-24-2018, 10:26 PM)HouseOfLions Wrote: Sorry but there were barely any injuries on Mr T after that fight.

That's what Londolozi said, yes. "Slight injuries".

(11-24-2018, 10:26 PM)HouseOfLions Wrote: And this article doesn't mention there wasn't a fight after t was chased. He could have easily turned around and fought and then went back to his brothers.

That's a bit of wishful thinking, honestly. 
This is the article you're referring to, the monthly Mala Mala archives:

Quote:June 2010


(8 years 7 months): (10 sightings)

This all happened in the first two weeks of the month and the rest of the month saw mostly a roaring contest between the remaining Mlowathi male and the 4 KNP males. The Mlowathi male has since recovered from his injuries and towards the end of the month settled with the Marthly pride eating two buffalo with them as he regained strength. However the 4 young males wanted the last say and caught up with the Marthly pride, killing 4 sub-adults and chasing the Mlowathi male off. The last we heard was that the Mlowathi male was with his three older Eyrefield brother to the west of Mala Mala, it will be very interesting if they will come across and challenge the 4 KNP males, it happened before with the Split Rock males.

Their report basically says the same thing that Londolozi's: 
- That Mr.T's injuries were minor enough for him to be recovered by the end of the month.
- When he roared the Majingilane roared back and went to hunt him down.
- He escaped, they chased him off and he went back to the bros in the west.
How you or anyone else decide to fill in the gaps the info has, well... that's up to you, but this is what the information we have says.

But the Malamala report proves that he did fight them, even if it was for a little while. 

Also, you are confusing things here. In the mala mala report, he had recovered from the slight injuries (before the manginjis attack) but in the Londolozi one, he was still seen with injuries while traveling west. That alone means that he was in a 1 vs 4 fight but got out alive. Reply

[Tshokwane]

(11-25-2018, 12:15 AM)Potato Wrote: Do someone know who is that Tara Pirie(from the pic)?

She worked in the Sabi sands, at Djuma.

(11-25-2018, 12:15 AM)Potato Wrote: If they would be 13-14 years old by time their death that would make them 6-7 years old by the time of their first arrival on Londolozi. They would be full maned adult lions if it would be true. No way! I am now looking at their pictures from that time and they definitely do not look for such age. They look like 3-4 years old to my eye.

Yes, that's the general consensus as well. The age they were given is an estimate, as I already said.

To me, Dark mane and Hip scar seemed to be the older males, I think he could easily have been 13-14 years old.

Both Golden Mane and Scar nose looked to be younger, so they could have been 12-13 years old. Reply

[Tshokwane]

(11-25-2018, 12:18 AM)HouseOfLions Wrote: but in the Londolozi one, he was still seen with injuries while traveling west. That alone means that he was in a 1 vs 4 fight but got out alive.

No. 

The londolozi one, from June 29, is the same MalaMala speaks about. He was with said "slight injuries" and went with the Tsalala females, the same thing MalaMala says.

This is leading nowhere, House. You have to stop interpreting it, or rather I should say twisting it to your own opinion. Reply

[Potato]

Yeah Dark Mane looked older. About 4 and half to 5 years old judging by his mane. 

"The age they were given is an estimate, as I already said"

Yeah but I think your estimation is very far from the true. As I said that would make DM and HS 6-7 years old in 2010 and SN and GM 5-6. Don't you think it is impossible having such poor manes at that age?  Reply

[Tshokwane]

(11-25-2018, 01:13 AM)Potato Wrote: Yeah but I think your estimation is very far from the true. As I said that would make DM and HS 6-7 years old in 2010

You're probably the only one that has ever said that, from what I've read. I don't really know where you're coming up with that.

(11-25-2018, 01:13 AM)Potato Wrote: Don't you think it is impossible having such poor manes at that age? 

No. 

I don't think they were 6 or 7 years old, you're the one saying that, but if you take 5 second and look up other non-territorial lions of that age, and you'll see that it is possible.

Look up the Tsalala young males, for example. Reply