There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
10-25-2024, 03:48 PM( This post was last modified: 10-25-2024, 03:50 PM by KM600 )
(10-24-2024, 11:31 PM)BA0701 Wrote:
(10-24-2024, 11:13 PM)KM600 Wrote: I agree with the point that maybe these things are being done as they are under heavy pressure from their lions being poached, but at the same time they don’t even seem to care about that. We got a report about them sending rangers out looking for Olobor even after numerous sources confirmed he was speared to death all because they didn’t want to be honest and admit the problems they’re having with HWC.
In terms of them doing it for the lion population, it seems pretty stable to me, especially in the area where this took place. I mean if u look around the surrounding area, u have 7 Topi subadult males, 5 Rongai subadult males, 3 (now 2 Paradise boys - heard there could be 5 altogether but 3 seemed to have split off) 6 Fig Tree subadult males and u still have so many more nomads too. One death isn’t going to change the fact that so many more of these males are going to die, especially with this many big upcoming coalitions in close proximity, albeit a lot of them aren’t ready to challenge yet, but they eventually will.
Exactly what I am saying. IF poaching is causing the numbers to be lower than they should be, then the simple solution is to enforce the laws that already exist. Though, as you mentioned, I am not sure we are at that point yet. However, in the Mara, they seem to have zero interest in that, instead choosing to allow the humans to encroach upon the lions territory, and then allowing them to kill them with impunity. It is disgusting, and is exactly why any time anyone asks me where they should go, if planning a safari, I always tell them to stay away from the Mara, at all costs. The only thing that will get them to change their corrupted stance, is for the tourism to cease, people to stop visiting the area. I guarantee you they will then change their current positions.
I’ve had quite a few conversations with ppl recently about wanting to go on a safari and the first place they always suggest is Masai Mara, I’ve started to get tired of explaining why that’s a place I’d never wish to go given the current environment over there, through no fault of their own ofc, they’ve just never read up on it. Thankfully majority of these ppl have never went and aren’t planning on visiting Masai Mara anytime soon, so they don’t know the indecency that they’d be funding.
If I’m being completely honest, I wish I had never starting getting invested in this thread, that way I wouldn’t have to see all the great lions being slaughtered, that seems the best word for me right now, Human Wildlife Conflict doesn’t do it justice. Damn the Black Rock Boys. Just playing. Hopefully we start to see some very serious changes over there but I seriously doubt it..
I was actually thinking about a way to solve the current issue at hand over there, it will never be applied but I think it could seriously work. So u see how we have all these private game reserves opening up like Sandringham recently being acquired by Sabi Sabi, higher ups could force Masai Mara hand and force them to better conditions or else they’d start moving a lot of their lions / prides to these locations.
It wouldn’t work for quite a few reasons, first of all it’d be quite expensive to transport these lions to other locations and aside from that, it seems the higher ups aren’t exactly in a rush to stop these monstrosities from happening. Then the new reserves would also have to be vetted to make sure the lions are 100% better off over there, for example, Sandringham has problems with poaching from what I’ve heard.
This is obviously quite an extreme idea all because they can’t control herders from killing their lions, but one I genuinely believe could work.
(10-24-2024, 11:13 PM)KM600 Wrote: I agree with the point that maybe these things are being done as they are under heavy pressure from their lions being poached, but at the same time they don’t even seem to care about that. We got a report about them sending rangers out looking for Olobor even after numerous sources confirmed he was speared to death all because they didn’t want to be honest and admit the problems they’re having with HWC.
In terms of them doing it for the lion population, it seems pretty stable to me, especially in the area where this took place. I mean if u look around the surrounding area, u have 7 Topi subadult males, 5 Rongai subadult males, 3 (now 2 Paradise boys - heard there could be 5 altogether but 3 seemed to have split off) 6 Fig Tree subadult males and u still have so many more nomads too. One death isn’t going to change the fact that so many more of these males are going to die, especially with this many big upcoming coalitions in close proximity, albeit a lot of them aren’t ready to challenge yet, but they eventually will.
Exactly what I am saying. IF poaching is causing the numbers to be lower than they should be, then the simple solution is to enforce the laws that already exist. Though, as you mentioned, I am not sure we are at that point yet. However, in the Mara, they seem to have zero interest in that, instead choosing to allow the humans to encroach upon the lions territory, and then allowing them to kill them with impunity. It is disgusting, and is exactly why any time anyone asks me where they should go, if planning a safari, I always tell them to stay away from the Mara, at all costs. The only thing that will get them to change their corrupted stance, is for the tourism to cease, people to stop visiting the area. I guarantee you they will then change their current positions.
I’ve had quite a few conversations with ppl recently about wanting to go on a safari and the first place they always suggest is Masai Mara, I’ve started to get tired of explaining why that’s a place I’d never wish to go given the current environment over there, through no fault of their own ofc, they’ve just never read up on it. Thankfully majority of these ppl have never went and aren’t planning on visiting Masai Mara anytime soon, so they don’t know the indecency that they’d be funding.
If I’m being completely honest, I wish I had never starting getting invested in this thread, that way I wouldn’t have to see all the great lions being slaughtered, that seems the best word for me right now, Human Wildlife Conflict doesn’t do it justice. Damn the Black Rock Boys. Just playing. Hopefully we start to see some very serious changes over there but I seriously doubt it..
I was actually thinking about a way to solve the current issue at hand over there, it will never be applied but I think it could seriously work. So u see how we have all these private game reserves opening up like Sandringham recently being acquired by Sabi Sabi, higher ups could force Masai Mara hand and force them to better conditions or else they’d start moving a lot of their lions / prides to these locations.
It wouldn’t work for quite a few reasons, first of all it’d be quite expensive to transport these lions to other locations and aside from that, it seems the higher ups aren’t exactly in a rush to stop these monstrosities from happening. Then the new reserves would also have to be vetted to make sure the lions are 100% better off over there, for example, Sandringham has problems with poaching from what I’ve heard.
This is obviously quite an extreme idea all because they can’t control herders from killing their lions, but one I genuinely believe could work.
I, too, have stopped using the term HWC, as you mentioned it is not fitting the current situation in Masai Mara, and does not give justice to what is actually taking place. It is either straight out poaching, or as you mentioned "slaughter", but this is not HWC.
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(10-24-2024, 11:13 PM)KM600 Wrote: I agree with the point that maybe these things are being done as they are under heavy pressure from their lions being poached, but at the same time they don’t even seem to care about that. We got a report about them sending rangers out looking for Olobor even after numerous sources confirmed he was speared to death all because they didn’t want to be honest and admit the problems they’re having with HWC.
In terms of them doing it for the lion population, it seems pretty stable to me, especially in the area where this took place. I mean if u look around the surrounding area, u have 7 Topi subadult males, 5 Rongai subadult males, 3 (now 2 Paradise boys - heard there could be 5 altogether but 3 seemed to have split off) 6 Fig Tree subadult males and u still have so many more nomads too. One death isn’t going to change the fact that so many more of these males are going to die, especially with this many big upcoming coalitions in close proximity, albeit a lot of them aren’t ready to challenge yet, but they eventually will.
Exactly what I am saying. IF poaching is causing the numbers to be lower than they should be, then the simple solution is to enforce the laws that already exist. Though, as you mentioned, I am not sure we are at that point yet. However, in the Mara, they seem to have zero interest in that, instead choosing to allow the humans to encroach upon the lions territory, and then allowing them to kill them with impunity. It is disgusting, and is exactly why any time anyone asks me where they should go, if planning a safari, I always tell them to stay away from the Mara, at all costs. The only thing that will get them to change their corrupted stance, is for the tourism to cease, people to stop visiting the area. I guarantee you they will then change their current positions.
I’ve had quite a few conversations with ppl recently about wanting to go on a safari and the first place they always suggest is Masai Mara, I’ve started to get tired of explaining why that’s a place I’d never wish to go given the current environment over there, through no fault of their own ofc, they’ve just never read up on it. Thankfully majority of these ppl have never went and aren’t planning on visiting Masai Mara anytime soon, so they don’t know the indecency that they’d be funding.
If I’m being completely honest, I wish I had never starting getting invested in this thread, that way I wouldn’t have to see all the great lions being slaughtered, that seems the best word for me right now, Human Wildlife Conflict doesn’t do it justice. Damn the Black Rock Boys. Just playing. Hopefully we start to see some very serious changes over there but I seriously doubt it..
I was actually thinking about a way to solve the current issue at hand over there, it will never be applied but I think it could seriously work. So u see how we have all these private game reserves opening up like Sandringham recently being acquired by Sabi Sabi, higher ups could force Masai Mara hand and force them to better conditions or else they’d start moving a lot of their lions / prides to these locations.
It wouldn’t work for quite a few reasons, first of all it’d be quite expensive to transport these lions to other locations and aside from that, it seems the higher ups aren’t exactly in a rush to stop these monstrosities from happening. Then the new reserves would also have to be vetted to make sure the lions are 100% better off over there, for example, Sandringham has problems with poaching from what I’ve heard.
This is obviously quite an extreme idea all because they can’t control herders from killing their lions, but one I genuinely believe could work.
This is a topic that bothers me a lot, and I try to steer clear of it as well. The Masai want the life they think they are entitled to, and their meal ticket for so many years (the wildlife) is in their way of development. Much like the America's a few hundred years ago, they must rid the land of vermin to allow expansion. It's hypocritical of me to deny them that, even if I can hate them for it.
As for if I ever were to make it to Africa to see wild Lions, I'd probably do South Africa. I'd like to go see Kevin Richardson's operation and then go out to Sabi to one of the resorts there for a few days.
Rongai youngsters. Thought the sighting of two groups of Rongai Pride hunting two buffalo just some metres away from each other was real cool, especially as they both looked to be successful hunts. When these boys eventually get ousted I’ll hope they can survive being nomads, but it won’t be through lack of food, just more so avoiding dominant males.
10-28-2024, 09:17 AM( This post was last modified: 10-28-2024, 09:26 AM by KM600 )
Their impressive fathers, they’ve been showing the best bonding I’ve seen from them since Olobor passed. Lorkulup height is crazy, it’s like he couldn’t have both the insane height along with a real bulky body so he was only given one, both would be too unfair
10-28-2024, 09:21 AM( This post was last modified: 10-28-2024, 03:26 PM by KM600 )
Speaking about Lorkulup, here’s his younger brother and best look alike in Masai Mara. Kijana showing a croc he’s not to be messed with. By the way, look at the darkness in his mane at 5 years old, great genes!
10-28-2024, 07:55 PM( This post was last modified: 10-28-2024, 07:59 PM by BA0701 )
(10-28-2024, 09:13 AM)KM600 Wrote:
Rongai youngsters. Thought the sighting of two groups of Rongai Pride hunting two buffalo just some metres away from each other was real cool, especially as they both looked to be successful hunts. When these boys eventually get ousted I’ll hope they can survive being nomads, but it won’t be through lack of food, just more so avoiding dominant males.
How old is Olonkera, and how old is his brothers? Mane development would suggest they are near the same age, but the difference in size, which is quite notable, would suggest there is, perhaps, a 2 year gap between them.
Rongai youngsters. Thought the sighting of two groups of Rongai Pride hunting two buffalo just some metres away from each other was real cool, especially as they both looked to be successful hunts. When these boys eventually get ousted I’ll hope they can survive being nomads, but it won’t be through lack of food, just more so avoiding dominant males.
How old is Olonkera, and how old is his brothers? Mane development would suggest they are near the same age, but the difference in size, which is quite notable, would suggest there is, perhaps, a 2 year gap between them.
Rongai youngsters. Thought the sighting of two groups of Rongai Pride hunting two buffalo just some metres away from each other was real cool, especially as they both looked to be successful hunts. When these boys eventually get ousted I’ll hope they can survive being nomads, but it won’t be through lack of food, just more so avoiding dominant males.
How old is Olonkera, and how old is his brothers? Mane development would suggest they are near the same age, but the difference in size, which is quite notable, would suggest there is, perhaps, a 2 year gap between them.
I do believe it is at least 1 year.
Thank you for that, my friend. I believe he is going to be a really big boy.
10-29-2024, 01:18 AM( This post was last modified: 10-29-2024, 01:31 AM by KM600 )
(10-28-2024, 07:55 PM)BA0701 Wrote:
(10-28-2024, 09:13 AM)KM600 Wrote:
Rongai youngsters. Thought the sighting of two groups of Rongai Pride hunting two buffalo just some metres away from each other was real cool, especially as they both looked to be successful hunts. When these boys eventually get ousted I’ll hope they can survive being nomads, but it won’t be through lack of food, just more so avoiding dominant males.
How old is Olonkera, and how old is his brothers? Mane development would suggest they are near the same age, but the difference in size, which is quite notable, would suggest there is, perhaps, a 2 year gap between them.
He either turned 3 last month or the month before. After him there’s Kidonge’oe (snipped tailed youngster) and another brother who guides have started refer to as ‘Cheema.’ They’re both the same age, then u have another 2 males who seem even younger. Prolly ranges from a year to just under a year and a half in age difference.
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Rongai youngsters. Thought the sighting of two groups of Rongai Pride hunting two buffalo just some metres away from each other was real cool, especially as they both looked to be successful hunts. When these boys eventually get ousted I’ll hope they can survive being nomads, but it won’t be through lack of food, just more so avoiding dominant males.
How old is Olonkera, and how old is his brothers? Mane development would suggest they are near the same age, but the difference in size, which is quite notable, would suggest there is, perhaps, a 2 year gap between them.
He either turned 3 last month or the year before. After him there’s Kidonge’oe (snipped tailed youngster) and another brother who guides have started refer to as ‘Cheema.’ They’re both the same age, then u have another 2 males who seem even younger. Prolly ranges from a year to just under a year and a half in age difference.
He almost appears like a sub in an adult's body, going to be a big boy from the looks of it. Thank you for that, my friend!
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10-29-2024, 04:14 PM( This post was last modified: 10-29-2024, 04:15 PM by KM600 )
More bad news unfortunately, all 3 BRBs have attacked Orkirikoi. For now, they’ve definitely done some damage but it seems survivable, with them resting so close to him, they could keep reattacking him anytime soon. I don’t think they have intentions to kill him atleast yet, not a lot of damage for 3 big males. I think this most likely happened in BRB territory, ever since the new Rongai cubs have been born, BRBs haven’t wandered far, would also make sense for Orkirikoi to find refugee elsewhere atleast for the moment with all the males he’s encountering in his territory.
(10-29-2024, 04:14 PM)KM600 Wrote: More bad news unfortunately, all 3 BRBs have attacked Orkirikoi. For now, they’ve definitely done some damage but it seems survivable, with them resting so close to him, they could keep reattacking him anytime soon. I don’t think they have intentions to kill him atleast yet, not a lot of damage for 3 big males. I think this most likely happened in BRB territory, ever since the new Rongai cubs have been born, BRBs haven’t wandered far, would also make sense for Orkirikoi to find refugee elsewhere atleast for the moment with all the males he’s encountering in his territory.
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The vets were called, but with the Black Rockers there, not much can be done unless they are going to tranquilze them all, which in my opinion is the worst option.
Other male lion coalitions from Masai Mara
