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Lions of Sabi Sands
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  (09-19-2024, 09:45 PM)afortich Wrote:(09-19-2024, 07:46 PM)BA0701 Wrote: In Djuma, Kruger Male showing a little dominance over S Avoca. Ha, indeed, my friend. I even checked, before posting it, LOL, go figure. Cheers! 
Although the guide says the mounting thing is a showing of dominance, I believe it is actually unrelated to dominance, other guides and rangers argue so and I believe it was doctor Craig Packer who also said so.
And although I might be wrong, I don't think the Kruger male is much younger than S.Avoca like she says, if I'm not mistaken, they are around the same age.  (09-19-2024, 10:46 PM)Mapokser Wrote: Although the guide says the mounting thing is a showing of dominance, I believe it is actually unrelated to dominance, other guides and rangers argue so and I believe it was doctor Craig Packer who also said so. Yea, no proof that this act is only sign of dominance, lions might just be happy/excited/affectionated towards partners/brothers, and because of similar emotions who arise when they are with females in estrus, they act the same. (09-19-2024, 10:46 PM)Mapokser Wrote: And although I might be wrong, I don't think the Kruger male is much younger than S.Avoca like she says, if I'm not mistaken, they are around the same age. Yes, he is atleast born in 2013, he might be even older then S.Avoca, we dont know. Theres photo of him and his bro in 2015 with pride, they where around 2-3 (hard to judge), and on photo of him from 2018, he already had full mane.
This is, however, a strong hint that the Kruger male was indeed ousted by Kambulas.
Still, Kambulas had ousted the BDM as well but didn't establish themselves with the NK pride so we'll have to wait to see if Kambulas will fully establish themselves with those Imbali females. 
By the way the are so many lone nomadic males in Sabi Sands at the moment. it would be great to see them form a bigger coalition like 4,5 or even 6 members strong. It would be awesome to see if for example Kruger and Avoca males would link up with Mohawk Avoca and Black Dam male or with Nkuchuma and Talamati males. It would be nice to see such coalition of unrelated males like De laportes, Mpondos or Talamati/Mhangeni were in the past.
I think its largely play as the animals mimic the pulse of pain that always happens during normal coitus even when no penetration obviously happens. Play has a strong practice through mimicking element in it and it makes sense that this also applies to mating. Ive also observed it happening when the lions were just calm and relaxed. So some kind of instinctual misfire due to happiness is also unlikely.
Though dominance obviously plays a role in it. So one could potentially deduce the hierarchy of a group by observing who initiates the most. 
@Potato It would be interesting to see but realistically it’s not going to happen. The only examples I can think of in that regard as you’ve mentioned Mpondos or De Laporte males. Also the coalition old Lubyelubye was part of for a while which I can’t remember their official name.
Even in the unlikely event it did things wouldn’t work as the bonds between them would be so weak the coalition would break apart at the first sign of conflict, just as what happened with the De Laporte.
It'd be cool to see a big coalition of famous unrelated Sabi Sands males, as long as they go to an area where they'd benefit the local population rather than anything else.
Still, if we take a look at these males, Kruger male and the 2 Avocas are 11+ years old, with the Avocas not always in top condition. Mohawk has also abandoned his sons who were driving to be territorial, which shows that he's likely retired already. Then there's the BDM, in his prime but either sick or permanently injured, his limp makes it unlikely for him to become a territorial male. Tumbela is in a similar situation, his last hurrah was with NK, but it seems he is done for after the fight with Gijimas. Then there's NK and Talamati, the only ones in top condition and prime age, and they are already together. Kruger male looks awesome as well but as I said, as a nomad at his age it's difficult to see him remaining as strong for long enough to become territorial again. Out of all these nomads, I think only NK/Talamati have the chance to become territorial and even then I don't think their chances are big as of right now. (09-20-2024, 01:21 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Out of all these nomads, I think only NK/Talamati have the chance to become territorial and even then I don't think their chances are big as of right now.As a duos probably yes (through I don't think Avoca/Kruger male duo will be easy push around if they indeed form a coalition), but if they would form a bigger coalition they should easly be able to compete. (09-20-2024, 01:08 AM)adamstocks16 Wrote: It would be interesting to see but realistically it’s not going to happenConsidering that there are so many of them and therefore chances of them bumping into each others are large and that bassically any arena in SS is controlled by strong coalition and therefore those nomads might feel need to form a bigger group feeling without it they won't be able to takeover any arena it seems it is perfect environment for such coalition to be formed.
Normally These groups would stand no chance.
But if we look at the prides in Sabi Sands right now, there are some that are very poorly defended. They should have no issue taking over groups like the Othawas, Ridgenoses group or Tsalala. Perhaps even Nkuhumas or Mangheni, depending on what the PCmales decide to do.
It'll be more interesting to see, I think, how the future coalitions native to Sabi Sands will develop as the next generation, assuming they'll survive to that point.
As of right now we have: 3,5yo Styx male who recently is looking impressive, he's solo. 3yo Nkuhuma young male who has no brothers. 2,5yo huge NK Breakaway sub who has no brothers as well. Then there're 9 Kambula male subs, some close to 2yo, if nothing drastic happens, it'll be tough for everybody else to compete with them when the time comes. Then you have 3 Manghenis, 2/3 1,5yo and one little over 1yo. An unknown number of Southern male cubs, I've no idea if the young females have male cubs, but I know that the 2 older cubs are female. And then there's some 11 Msuthlu cubs, many which are probably male. Some Ntsevu male cubs too, if they overcome mange. Considering how they joined their Kambula brothers at a kill recently, depending on the relationship the 2 prides keep in the next months and years, it wouldn't be impossible for Ntsevu male cubs to join Kambulas during their nomadhood. And of course, wildcards like the 2 Charleston sons which I think should be around or close to 4yo? They show up in the south from time to time, and Torchwood subs who also sometimes shows up in the north. Lots of potential coalitions to be formed in the next few years, if some of them stick to Sabi Sands, althe advantage will be on the older subs if they can form coalitions quickly, like Styx, NK young male and NK Breakaways. If not the 9 Kambulas will walk over everything. Still, it's a long time till this current generation is old enough to be challenging for territory and a lot can happen from now to then.  (09-20-2024, 01:41 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Normally These groups would stand no chance. RN group? These coalitions could takeover their former territory but taking over that ‘group’ now, and that’s assuming u mean how, is out of the question. No coalition gains anything from chasing the subadult male away and being left with a female who’s still months away from being able to conceive. This has unironically led me to a thought about that same female too, assuming PCMs keep hold of their territory up until the NK breakaway female can start establishing her own territory, I wonder how PCMs treat her. She’d be an immediate threat to any of their cubs born in other prides and wouldn’t be seen as a mating opportunity either. If we look at how big their territory is right now, they’d have a hard time sending her far out of the West. |
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