There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
All of them are his paternal brothers as long as we count Thanda Impi coalition (2 males) as the father. Including Red Road, who is believed ot be sired by Skorro Sr. As Thanda Impi males joined as unrelated males, those actually sired by Skorro Sr.'s partner Sizanani are in the end not related to him though - that applies to Ncile nad Mandevu, Lambile was ofc born tp Nharu pride as thus is realted to Skorro Jr. through his maternal side.
So all of Red Road, Ncile, Mandevu and Lambile are potentially his half-brothers as well as 5 more now perished males born into Mbiri and Nharu pride in the same litters, lost Tintswalo, Scar and Limper included (+ any possible male cubs that did not make it to sub-adulthood at least)
As for Tumbela coalition still warranting its own thread when currently down to one nomadic male, I guess one day we might have a Thanda Impi Male Lineage thread if any male cubs from Othawa, Mbiri (sans the Orpen cub) or Nharu make it to nomadic phase (although info might be scarce depending on where they would move to).
Skorro might eventually find a buddy and they get a new name, making thing even trickier thread title wise :) He is after all in an area with realatively lot of solo males, although they are all (besides Dark Mane Avoca I guess) currently dominant and thus unlikely to be receptive to an idea of joining forces.
(07-27-2022, 11:02 PM)RookiePundit Wrote: As for Tumbela coalition still warranting its own thread when currently down to one nomadic male, I guess one day we might have a Thanda Impi Male Lineage thread if any male cubs from Othawa, Mbiri (sans the Orpen cub) or Nharu make it to nomadic phase (although info might be scarce depending on where they would move to).
Skorro might eventually find a buddy and they get a new name, making thing even trickier thread title wise :) He is after all in an area with realatively lot of solo males, although they are all (besides Dark Mane Avoca I guess) currently dominant and thus unlikely to be receptive to an idea of joining forces.
Sort of in line with your fence/cliff analogy, the lineage threads had to start somewhere, so the obvious choice was to start with the sons threads, many of which are now grandsons and beyond. We are all for making as many as we need to to have as robust a repository as we are able. As long as there is enough information to create one, and enough continuing information to keep it going somewhat regularly, then we are all for it. The more inclusive those threads can be, the more helpful and informative a repository we can leave for for those coming behind us.
As you just outlined, it sounds as though we may have a great beginning for a Thanda Impi Male Lineage thread, and enough current males to keep it active. If you have enough historical information to get one started, we'll gladly do so.
(07-27-2022, 11:02 PM)RookiePundit Wrote: As for Tumbela coalition still warranting its own thread when currently down to one nomadic male, I guess one day we might have a Thanda Impi Male Lineage thread if any male cubs from Othawa, Mbiri (sans the Orpen cub) or Nharu make it to nomadic phase (although info might be scarce depending on where they would move to).
Skorro might eventually find a buddy and they get a new name, making thing even trickier thread title wise :) He is after all in an area with realatively lot of solo males, although they are all (besides Dark Mane Avoca I guess) currently dominant and thus unlikely to be receptive to an idea of joining forces.
As you just outlined, it sounds as though we may have a great beginning for a Thanda Impi Male Lineage thread, and enough current males to keep it active. If you have enough historical information to get one started, we'll gladly do so.
I don't think I have but WildFact collectively most likely does. For sure I hope there would be enough continuation in the newest generation to post about since since the original Thanda Impi duo (and their respective fallen brothers) it is a story of underdogs striving to succeed against odds with mixed results being repeated in every generation (which could be said it is a theme for wildlife to some extent) with subsequent generations not being dealt great hands either (I guess Tintswalos had it easy becoming pride males at least). Current adult generation might turn to be the last though, Skorro Jr. is back to square one and lone male now with his only son having bleak future to make it to adulthood, Tintswalo's Mbiri cubs could be hindered by inbreeding and just Red Road's Nharu cubs might have something going but still the pride is protected by a lone male and it seems like southern half of Manyeleti close to human settlement has ongoing poaching activity.
(07-27-2022, 11:02 PM)RookiePundit Wrote: As for Tumbela coalition still warranting its own thread when currently down to one nomadic male, I guess one day we might have a Thanda Impi Male Lineage thread if any male cubs from Othawa, Mbiri (sans the Orpen cub) or Nharu make it to nomadic phase (although info might be scarce depending on where they would move to).
Skorro might eventually find a buddy and they get a new name, making thing even trickier thread title wise :) He is after all in an area with realatively lot of solo males, although they are all (besides Dark Mane Avoca I guess) currently dominant and thus unlikely to be receptive to an idea of joining forces.
As you just outlined, it sounds as though we may have a great beginning for a Thanda Impi Male Lineage thread, and enough current males to keep it active. If you have enough historical information to get one started, we'll gladly do so.
I don't think I have but WildFact collectively most likely does. For sure I hope there would be enough continuation in the newest generation to post about since since the original Thanda Impi duo (and their respective fallen brothers) it is a story of underdogs striving to succeed against odds with mixed results being repeated in every generation (which could be said it is a theme for wildlife to some extent) with subsequent generations not being dealt great hands either (I guess Tintswalos had it easy becoming pride males at least). Current adult generation might turn to be the last though, Skorro Jr. is back to square one and lone male now with his only son having bleak future to make it to adulthood, Tintswalo's Mbiri cubs could be hindered by inbreeding and just Red Road's Nharu cubs might have something going but still the pride is protected by a lone male and it seems like southern half of Manyeleti close to human settlement has ongoing poaching activity.
Since the Prides and Lineage threads are an experiment of sorts, albeit a seemingly successful one at this juncture, we can try out another one for the Thanda Impi. There certainly appears enough of an ongoing bloodline for it.
Do we know for certain the Othawa male cub is Skorro Jr's? I only ask as if I am not mistaken, back in the beginning, Scar was doing a lot of the mating?
(07-27-2022, 11:02 PM)RookiePundit Wrote: As for Tumbela coalition still warranting its own thread when currently down to one nomadic male, I guess one day we might have a Thanda Impi Male Lineage thread if any male cubs from Othawa, Mbiri (sans the Orpen cub) or Nharu make it to nomadic phase (although info might be scarce depending on where they would move to).
Skorro might eventually find a buddy and they get a new name, making thing even trickier thread title wise :) He is after all in an area with realatively lot of solo males, although they are all (besides Dark Mane Avoca I guess) currently dominant and thus unlikely to be receptive to an idea of joining forces.
As you just outlined, it sounds as though we may have a great beginning for a Thanda Impi Male Lineage thread, and enough current males to keep it active. If you have enough historical information to get one started, we'll gladly do so.
I don't think I have but WildFact collectively most likely does. For sure I hope there would be enough continuation in the newest generation to post about since since the original Thanda Impi duo (and their respective fallen brothers) it is a story of underdogs striving to succeed against odds with mixed results being repeated in every generation (which could be said it is a theme for wildlife to some extent) with subsequent generations not being dealt great hands either (I guess Tintswalos had it easy becoming pride males at least). Current adult generation might turn to be the last though, Skorro Jr. is back to square one and lone male now with his only son having bleak future to make it to adulthood, Tintswalo's Mbiri cubs could be hindered by inbreeding and just Red Road's Nharu cubs might have something going but still the pride is protected by a lone male and it seems like southern half of Manyeleti close to human settlement has ongoing poaching activity.
Since the Prides and Lineage threads are an experiment of sorts, albeit a seemingly successful one at this juncture, we can try out another one for the Thanda Impi. There certainly appears enough of an ongoing bloodline for it.
Do we know for certain the Othawa male cub is Skorro Jr's? I only ask as if I am not mistaken, back in the beginning, Scar was doing a lot of the mating?
Honestly, how can anyone know for sure who sired any cub with a coalition? That being said, just looking at that cub's face, I'd say he's definitely Skorro's cub. Skorro's brother's didn't have that same look that Skorro Jr has. To me they all didn't look that much alike for brothers.
That lone male cub has a lot of spunk which he will really need as he runs the gauntlet in his future.
Ultimately, as lionesses mate with any male present, pride males or not. These sorts of lineages are pointless without DNA backing.
Personally I dont really see the point of only tracking male lineages. As if females dont contribute genetically.
By the time you are going past grandcubs the genetic heritage of one male lion would be diluted into nothing anyways. It just fuels the whole my fav lion is of more royal pedrigee than your lion fandom.
I created then deleted the Thanda Impi thread. It seems it became controversial our of the gate which was the exact opposite of my intentions. I did not delete it due to any one opinion, but because there was opposition from the start. Our goals are never to create something that will be controversial or divisive, which is what seems to have happened in this case. Instead, our goals are to listen to our users, and to make WildFact as informative as we are able, with the help and tremendous knowledge of our community, a community that I truly believe is one of the finest on the web. The prides and the other lineage threads have been more positively received, which is always our intention. So, moving forward we will give a little more time to the existing threads, and openly discuss further thread recommendations before proceeding.
Let us please move on with our current discussions at hand.
07-28-2022, 01:28 PM( This post was last modified: 07-28-2022, 01:33 PM by Duco Ndona )
Hold on. Just becouse I have my opinion on it does not mean it needs to be deleted. I just wont be reading them thats all.
I think an attempt to map and track the genetic lineage of the lions as a whole is a valuable idea. It just needs some rework and we need to be realistic about its accuracy.
Anyway. Lets continue. The only reason I said something is becouse I dont want such a decision to be made solely on me being grumpy.
(07-28-2022, 01:28 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Hold on. Just becouse I have my opinion on it does not mean it needs to be deleted. I just wont be reading them thats all.
I think an attempt to map and track the genetic lineage of the lions as a whole is a valuable idea. It just needs some rework and we need to be realistic about its accuracy.
Anyway. Lets continue. The only reason I said something is becouse I dont want such a decision to be made solely on me being grumpy.
Wasn't to do with what you said. We have threads on most, if not all of Thanda Impi sons, was the biggest reason for it. It would have been redundant. You're fine, noghing you said lead to it, which is why I said nobody's comment lead to my pulling it.
It was purely my mistake in creating it, mine and mine alone.
I am bit late, but as for actual paternity, withou genetic testing, we can only tell Red Road is not Sizanani's, simply because at the time he was conceived Skorro and Sizanani were yet to meet and join up as a coalition. Beyond that we cna only make educated guesses based on appearance and dominance and presence of respective males around cubs' mother in the relveant time - all coalition males likely get a chance to mate (it is rational for females to give all males a sliver of hope, the cubs might be his, as long as they believer he is gonna be around and on his last breath). And then there is the health issues theory some here on this forum speculate meight be a genetic predisposition and be related to which one of the two was actual father of the impacted individual - which to me it is bit stretch, sadly multiple males born into the Nharu pride eventually succumbed to poor health and clearly some condition have severly hindered them for a while.
We don't even know if Skorro Jr. is Skorro's son. He looks alike though. As for Tumbela Jr. (aka the lone Othawa pride male cub) I guess we kind of want him to be, especially as he is showing some character and fearless behaviour (need to be toned down, running into hyenas alone is a recept for disaster) resembling his grandfather Skorro. His supposed dad, Skoro Jr. was the most healthy and really the only healthy male of the coalition when Tumbelas took over Othawa and it is not a big jump to assume he had priority acces to Othawas and did more mating than his brothers, boosting the odds the cubs are actually sired by him, although there is never a guarantee without DNA testing. As for him being son of Skorro, I take it as a simlification, there is some resemblance, mroe so to me he on the newest pics from Manyeleti looks a lot like Red Road (similar stare, a bit) who would be his paternal half-brother. So for me it is an ok working hypotheis, which should not be presented as fact but for siplmification, I don't see a reason to include a disclaimer every time that we don't know for sure. Often personal opinion of the poster might get in the way (more elsewhere than here) and people believe what they want to believe - reminds me the situation of people speculating who was father of the impressive Othawa male (for the sake of clarity the one often reffered to as Nguvu), some saw Scar Nose Majingilane in him and some saw Hip Scar. At least with 2 male coliation like was the Thanda Impis, only two options are possible so we are more likely to correct than not even if go just be very subjective thing like appearance.
Regardless, seem like common practice males being called father and son when what is really meant is the latter is father by the coalition the former is/was part of like recently in multiple sightings Nhenha and Nkuhuma are reffered to as father and son sometimes, when they probably are not and Nkuhuma is likely his nephew (not that Nhenha knows or cares at this point). I guess the distinction between actual father and fathering coalition is gonna be impractical and one gonna get confused for the other, for sure outside of this forum.
Then again. Hairy Belly returned, as did Red Road , Nhenha and DarkMane. I guess its more common than our normal understanding of lions led us to believe
