There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
The silver-eyed Talamati lioness feeding off a buffalo calf in Sabi Sands. She's struggling to keep strong and with the rest of the pride. It seems age is catching up to this living legend.
Photo credit: Villiers Steyn
(12-08-2021, 08:21 PM)Timbavati Wrote: The silver-eyed Talamati lioness feeding off a buffalo calf in Sabi Sands. She's struggling to keep strong and with the rest of the pride. It seems age is catching up to this living legend.
Photo credit: Villiers Steyn
*This image is copyright of its original author
She was sired by old Nkuhumas if im not wrong, she’s gotta be 12-14 years old
(11-26-2021, 12:20 AM)sundarbans Wrote: Has there been any updates about the Tsalalas? Is it confirmed that the PC males were the ones that killed the Tsalala Princess and what would be the reason for their doing so? And any news about the daughter?
I don't think there was ever any proof presented that it was the PC Males other than the fact that they seen in the vicinity of the body. Them being nearby means nothing, though. Something had been eating the carcass. They could have followed the vultures or the sound of scavengers consuming the body.
Or maybe it was them who killed her. There's no proof, only speculation. But it wasn't the the PC Males IMO. The Mbiri Pride killed a rival lioness last year, then Junior Matimba/Nkuhuma showed up and started eating her. He was there, but wasn't responsible for her death.
I disagree with you about who killed the Tsalala lioness. Of course it is only a guess.
It is true that there is no direct proof that the PC males killed the Tsalala lioness, but there is circumstantial proof for not only this death and their being in the proximity, but also for the Ximhungwe sub adult lioness disappearance since they were seen very near them around the time when the sub adult lioness disappeared. To me that is just too suspect.
I saw no injuries on the Marthly lioness save the obvious gutting but also the bite to the back of the head, right where many males gently bite when mating. I believe she was trying to protect her daughter by being the target. She obviously submitted to mating, but was killed anyway. Anyone could have began to eat her then.
I do believe that Junior did not kill the Koppies' lioness or cubs and would have tried to stop it had he been there in time. That I firmly believe and also that it pained him so that he began to consume the lioness to keep the scavengers from her carcass which I have seen lionesses do after one of their cub dies.
From what I've seen, some male lions are more aggressive and will kill for hardly a reason while others would be more apt to just chase the offender away. These PC boys IMO are like the former males lions and may kill even more sub adults in the future. I am not a fan of these types of male lions because they only have one way of dealing with things.
You may be right. It could have been them. It's just my opinion that it wasn't.
"but there is circumstantial proof"
Circumstantial evidence does not equal proof. Lions of all ages go missing all the time, but especially young lions. Anything could have happened to the Xim sub.
I
"From what I've seen, some male lions are more aggressive and will kill for hardly a reason while others would be more apt to just chase the offender away. These PC boys IMO are like the former males lions and may kill even more sub adults in the future. I am not a fan of these types of male lions because they only have one way of dealing with things."
I haven't followed the PC Males that much. Are these guys agressive? Do they have any confirmed kills? Have they even been in a fight? I'm not saying they aren't, don't, haven't; just that I'm not aware of their exploits.
(11-26-2021, 12:20 AM)sundarbans Wrote: Has there been any updates about the Tsalalas? Is it confirmed that the PC males were the ones that killed the Tsalala Princess and what would be the reason for their doing so? And any news about the daughter?
I don't think there was ever any proof presented that it was the PC Males other than the fact that they seen in the vicinity of the body. Them being nearby means nothing, though. Something had been eating the carcass. They could have followed the vultures or the sound of scavengers consuming the body.
Or maybe it was them who killed her. There's no proof, only speculation. But it wasn't the the PC Males IMO. The Mbiri Pride killed a rival lioness last year, then Junior Matimba/Nkuhuma showed up and started eating her. He was there, but wasn't responsible for her death.
I disagree with you about who killed the Tsalala lioness. Of course it is only a guess.
It is true that there is no direct proof that the PC males killed the Tsalala lioness, but there is circumstantial proof for not only this death and their being in the proximity, but also for the Ximhungwe sub adult lioness disappearance since they were seen very near them around the time when the sub adult lioness disappeared. To me that is just too suspect.
I saw no injuries on the Marthly lioness save the obvious gutting but also the bite to the back of the head, right where many males gently bite when mating. I believe she was trying to protect her daughter by being the target. She obviously submitted to mating, but was killed anyway. Anyone could have began to eat her then.
I do believe that Junior did not kill the Koppies' lioness or cubs and would have tried to stop it had he been there in time. That I firmly believe and also that it pained him so that he began to consume the lioness to keep the scavengers from her carcass which I have seen lionesses do after one of their cub dies.
From what I've seen, some male lions are more aggressive and will kill for hardly a reason while others would be more apt to just chase the offender away. These PC boys IMO are like the former males lions and may kill even more sub adults in the future. I am not a fan of these types of male lions because they only have one way of dealing with things.
You may be right. It could have been them. It's just my opinion that it wasn't.
"but there is circumstantial proof"
Circumstantial evidence does not equal proof. Lions of all ages go missing all the time, but especially young lions. Anything could have happened to the Xim sub.
I
"From what I've seen, some male lions are more aggressive and will kill for hardly a reason while others would be more apt to just chase the offender away. These PC boys IMO are like the former males lions and may kill even more sub adults in the future. I am not a fan of these types of male lions because they only have one way of dealing with things."
I haven't followed the PC Males that much. Are these guys agressive? Do they have any confirmed kills? Have they even been in a fight? I'm not saying they aren't, don't, haven't; just that I'm not aware of their exploits.
The killed one of the Nkuhuma sub-adults females a couple of months ago.
Nothing on videos like that. But they have a tendency to be around when lions die.
Its also not out of character for lions to be brutal killers. So its not like we are watching some anomaly.
From what the singita report mentioned it was the PC males and Nkuhuma girls combined who killed her, which as a scenario makes a lot more sense than males randomly killing a female
(11-26-2021, 12:20 AM)sundarbans Wrote: Has there been any updates about the Tsalalas? Is it confirmed that the PC males were the ones that killed the Tsalala Princess and what would be the reason for their doing so? And any news about the daughter?
I don't think there was ever any proof presented that it was the PC Males other than the fact that they seen in the vicinity of the body. Them being nearby means nothing, though. Something had been eating the carcass. They could have followed the vultures or the sound of scavengers consuming the body.
Or maybe it was them who killed her. There's no proof, only speculation. But it wasn't the the PC Males IMO. The Mbiri Pride killed a rival lioness last year, then Junior Matimba/Nkuhuma showed up and started eating her. He was there, but wasn't responsible for her death.
I disagree with you about who killed the Tsalala lioness. Of course it is only a guess.
It is true that there is no direct proof that the PC males killed the Tsalala lioness, but there is circumstantial proof for not only this death and their being in the proximity, but also for the Ximhungwe sub adult lioness disappearance since they were seen very near them around the time when the sub adult lioness disappeared. To me that is just too suspect.
I saw no injuries on the Marthly lioness save the obvious gutting but also the bite to the back of the head, right where many males gently bite when mating. I believe she was trying to protect her daughter by being the target. She obviously submitted to mating, but was killed anyway. Anyone could have began to eat her then.
I do believe that Junior did not kill the Koppies' lioness or cubs and would have tried to stop it had he been there in time. That I firmly believe and also that it pained him so that he began to consume the lioness to keep the scavengers from her carcass which I have seen lionesses do after one of their cub dies.
From what I've seen, some male lions are more aggressive and will kill for hardly a reason while others would be more apt to just chase the offender away. These PC boys IMO are like the former males lions and may kill even more sub adults in the future. I am not a fan of these types of male lions because they only have one way of dealing with things.
You may be right. It could have been them. It's just my opinion that it wasn't.
"but there is circumstantial proof"
Circumstantial evidence does not equal proof. Lions of all ages go missing all the time, but especially young lions. Anything could have happened to the Xim sub.
I
"From what I've seen, some male lions are more aggressive and will kill for hardly a reason while others would be more apt to just chase the offender away. These PC boys IMO are like the former males lions and may kill even more sub adults in the future. I am not a fan of these types of male lions because they only have one way of dealing with things."
I haven't followed the PC Males that much. Are these guys agressive? Do they have any confirmed kills? Have they even been in a fight? I'm not saying they aren't, don't, haven't; just that I'm not aware of their exploits.
Time will tell as we see what plays out. Both of our opinions are equally valid, and the future does not prove the past which I believe will stay a mystery, so even if the PC males are caught killing it doesn't mean they killed previously.
Even KNOWING everything wouldn't change a thing, but suffice it to say I don't believe in coincidences.
The Marthly ‘pride’ just can’t catch a break. As soon as there’s a glimmer of hope, it gets dashed. The Marthly lioness was all that remained of the Marthly pride following a turbulent takeover. Then came hope when she gave birth to 3 cubs. But then a male leopard killed all 3. Or at least so we thought. Hope was restored when we found her again with a single female cub who she raised into early adulthood. But then the Marthly lioness was killed by the Plains Camp males and now this young lioness is all that remains of the pride. But we have seen glimmers of hope again. The new Marthly lioness has recently killed two waterbuck cows on her own.
So, she can fend for herself but will she find new males, have cubs and restore the pride to its former glory?
Photo credit: MalaMala Game Reserve
(12-09-2021, 06:51 PM)Timbavati Wrote: What does the future hold for her?
The Marthly ‘pride’ just can’t catch a break. As soon as there’s a glimmer of hope, it gets dashed. The Marthly lioness was all that remained of the Marthly pride following a turbulent takeover. Then came hope when she gave birth to 3 cubs. But then a male leopard killed all 3. Or at least so we thought. Hope was restored when we found her again with a single female cub who she raised into early adulthood. But then the Marthly lioness was killed by the Plains Camp males and now this young lioness is all that remains of the pride. But we have seen glimmers of hope again. The new Marthly lioness has recently killed two waterbuck cows on her own.
So, she can fend for herself but will she find new males, have cubs and restore the pride to its former glory?
Photo credit: MalaMala Game Reserve
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Really nice to see she can hunt well at this age, just like the Othawa subadults
(12-09-2021, 06:51 PM)Timbavati Wrote: What does the future hold for her?
The Marthly ‘pride’ just can’t catch a break. As soon as there’s a glimmer of hope, it gets dashed. The Marthly lioness was all that remained of the Marthly pride following a turbulent takeover. Then came hope when she gave birth to 3 cubs. But then a male leopard killed all 3. Or at least so we thought. Hope was restored when we found her again with a single female cub who she raised into early adulthood. But then the Marthly lioness was killed by the Plains Camp males and now this young lioness is all that remains of the pride. But we have seen glimmers of hope again. The new Marthly lioness has recently killed two waterbuck cows on her own.
So, she can fend for herself but will she find new males, have cubs and restore the pride to its former glory?
Photo credit: MalaMala Game Reserve
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Princess Tsalala has a great future, I am sure she will achieve it just like her mother.
