There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
(10-31-2020, 05:38 AM)Potato Wrote: Also yet about Southern Avocas, I remember Sabi Sabi in one of their blogs stated that they think Tsalala male are bigger then them. I am not sure how accurate is that, althrough even if they are roughly same size or a bit bigger than Tsalalas, still should be smaller than De Laportes. Hildas Rock male should look huge in comparison to Southern Avocas.
I do not think currenly we have in Sabi Sands really big lion, maybe beside Dark Mane Avoca. Nhanha should be clearly over avarage size lion, but deffinitelly not among largest lions ever seen in Sabi Sands.
Makhulu was an exceptionally large male, as well. No idea how he would compare to Nhenha, and there isn't any photos or video of Mapogos interaction with the Matimbas, in order to compare. I don't believe he was ever weighed during one of the dartings by Willem Botha, but he was visibly larger than the other Mapogos, both thickness and height. That would be really helpful if they did weigh any of these animals while having them under sedation, but I am not aware of them having ever done that. Do you have a belief on who might have been among the largest in SS history, or was your comment made in more general terms, like saying you're sure there have been bigger at some point?
10-31-2020, 06:16 AM( This post was last modified: 10-31-2020, 06:18 AM by Gijima )
(10-31-2020, 05:35 AM)Cunaguaro Wrote:
(10-31-2020, 02:37 AM)Gijima Wrote:
(10-31-2020, 02:03 AM)Cunaguaro Wrote:
(10-30-2020, 11:59 PM)Gijima Wrote:
(10-30-2020, 11:43 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(10-30-2020, 11:27 PM)TinoArmando Wrote: Legend Safaris saw to the 2 Birmingham/Gowrie males and the five Avoca males. That's why I've said this.
Im saying that massive and impressive as he described S. Avocas doesnt means that they are biggest..
And as far as I understand @Slayerd, they have been in MalaMala, so they definitely didnt see DM Avoca and Hairy Belly Matimba..
How would you even verify any of this unless they are standing next to each other? Even then (with Mfumo and Nhena) it was almost impossible to figure out. But because some ranger saw different coalitions at different sightings, doing completely different things (sitting, standing, yawning) and from different distances.. they would know if one lion in 1 inch bigger than another?
I think the only factual thing we can say is that IN MY OPINION, I find a particular lion impressive. In some rare cases (like Dark Mane) it's obvious he is bigger than his coalition members. Nhena is also obviously bigger than Tinyo. But comparing lions across coalition is almost impossible.
I would have loved to hear Legand Safari tell us about the SIX coalitions they saw in Mala Mala, the lion dynamics in that area and a lot more other interesting things about their visit.
It is not so impossible to see, in this video it is clearly appreciated that Nenha is taller than Mfumo but not more bulky. The thread of the Birmingham males could be seen in previous years photos where the 4 lions are together one next to the other and the height and volume of each could be compared, I will try to find those photos and if I find them I will share here.
However, in many cases it is a matter of appreciation, it may vary depending on who the male you are observing is with at a certain moment since if he is with a lioness the difference in size will be much more noticeable (and this tends to impress). whether the male in question is with any of his coalition partners.
On the other hand, I think that one of the members of the southern avoca coalition "biggermane" could be a good analogy with Mfumo compared to Nenha as we see in the video.
Yet you can also see Nhena is walking slight closer to the camera. And anyways this is the perfect example of why this conversation is irrelevant.... in a fight do you think Nhena’s two centimeters in height matters more than Mfumo’s 20 extra Lbs of weight? And also, when you watched the video could you really tell who was bigger or did you have to keep pausing it and slowing it down? Live sightings are the worst for making comparisons... pictures are better.
When some one asks a ranger if Nhena is the biggest lion in SS, they’ll say “sure”... But I don’t think they think you really going to treat it as a indisputable scientific fact. The same thing with ages or any other history...
You don’t measure the height of anything of similar size by just “seeing” it. That’s not how height is measured. You and I know how tall we are not by using our XMen laser vision eyes, but because we actually measured ourselves. There are taller lions in the SS (dark mane, HB, Nhena) there are bulkier lions (Southern Avocas) and leaner ones (N Avocas).... those are all facts. And no guide needs to tell me Ottawa Male is impressive. He is absolutely an impressive male.
Friend I have not mentioned a fight or anything like that for you to ask me that question, I only mentioned the issue of height and volume, which was what I read in the comments of other forum members, that's all. Remember that we are talking about appreciation, not about a technical scientific proof to argue based on an irrefutable fact.
Also, it is not about coming to discuss, that is not the intention. I just gave my opinion like others and not all of them have to be the same; This forum is not about coming to discuss but to share opinions, after all a forum like this is for that and to do it with tolerance and respect. Do not you believe it?
As for whether it is an irrelevant conversation, it obviously is from a technical point of view, although you joined in commenting on the subject despite that.
Best regards!
Sorry, I should have clarified that although I talked about the video you posted, a lot of what I was responding to was what a previous post said. I think everything you said was completely reasonable about Mfumo’s build vs Nhena, and I would totally agree with that. I need to get better at replying to the right posts and @ the right people in my replies!
10-31-2020, 06:18 AM( This post was last modified: 10-31-2020, 06:18 AM by T I N O )
(10-31-2020, 06:10 AM)BA0701 Wrote:
(10-31-2020, 05:38 AM)Potato Wrote: Also yet about Southern Avocas, I remember Sabi Sabi in one of their blogs stated that they think Tsalala male are bigger then them. I am not sure how accurate is that, althrough even if they are roughly same size or a bit bigger than Tsalalas, still should be smaller than De Laportes. Hildas Rock male should look huge in comparison to Southern Avocas.
I do not think currenly we have in Sabi Sands really big lion, maybe beside Dark Mane Avoca. Nhanha should be clearly over avarage size lion, but deffinitelly not among largest lions ever seen in Sabi Sands.
Makhulu was an exceptionally large male, as well. No idea how he would compare to Nhenha, and there isn't any photos or video of Mapogos interaction with the Matimbas, in order to compare. I don't believe he was ever weighed during one of the dartings by Willem Botha, but he was visibly larger than the other Mapogos, both thickness and height. That would be really helpful if they did weigh any of these animals while having them under sedation, but I am not aware of them having ever done that. Do you have a belief on who might have been among the largest in SS history, or was your comment made in more general terms, like saying you're sure there have been bigger at some point?
Great theme to talk.
@BA0701
I have found an old comment on Londolozi blog about Mak weight that has been answered by Richard Laburn
Question by member: AL (5th September 2010 at 18:28)
Richard,
Hey thanks a ton for the info. Didn’t expect it so soon. I unexpectedly came across this whole story of the Mapogos of Londolozi watching a YouTube video of John Varty sneaking up on a resting male lion. He gave a bit of introduction about the cat, I typed it in Google and was instantly introduced to a world of awe and violence as I have never researched lions like this before.
The Makulu Mapogo intrigues me like nothing else. He seems larger than most lions. Any specifics about his size and weight – estimate? Also, what about the other three lions, with the exception of Mr_t/SATAN? How are they holding on especially their physical conditions? I’d be overjoyed to see recent pics if any.
Once again, much appreciation for such a swift and well put response.
Regards
Al
Rich Laburn answer: Al, glad you found the information interesting. I know the video that you are talking about with JV sneaking up on the resting male. ?
As mentioned in the previous comment, I know nothing about the wellbeing of the Makulu male, however the following links will be helpful to you in furthering your research. You can try Rob the Ranger here: http://www.facebook.com/robtheranger or try Idube blog here http://idubelodge.blogspot.com/. There is also the Wildearth community to discuss Mapogo information, find them here: http://idubelodge.blogspot.com/. There should be people there who will be able to give you estimations of his size, weight, etc. BUt off the top of my head, you’re looking at 200 – 240 kg. Anything over 250kg is a very big male lion.
You will also be able to find recent pics of them on these resources. If they venture onto Londolozi anytime soon, I will definitely put some pics and video up.
At present we have the Majingilane moving throughout much of our central and northern areas. It will be worth understanding a following this coalition of males as well. They will certainly play their part in Sabi Sands history. You can find more resources on them here: http://blog.londolozi.com/2010/08/lion-w...te-part-4/
Please let me know how it goes and continue to contribute to the blog with your questions, thoughts and discussion. It is great to be able to provide answers to you and everybody else who is reading this.
Look, I don't know where all this debate came from and to be honest I think it's quite unnecessary. I don't think many of you nor I have seen lions up close as much as the Legend Safaris have. They have apparently been going on Safaris for 15 years. The only reason I sent this was because the admin of the group literally stated with his own mouth that Nhenha was huge, the largest of all males and the Southern Avocas were massive and impressive. Also speaking of how impressive the Torchwood Young Male was. For a person who has done it for 15 years, he must know alot and I'm pretty sure has more knowledge than any of us. I think you should all humble yourself to that belief because we are just enthusiasts behind devices. Even me, who has seen many lions and been on Safaris doesn't come close to his knowledge. So a debate where we doubt his word and think we know more of how lions scale is quite dumb imo when someone is seeing these animals almost daily. At the end of the day, people will believe what they wish and have a right to but this debate and going back and forth is quite dumb.
(10-31-2020, 06:19 AM)Slayerd Wrote: Look, I don't know where all this debate came from and to be honest I think it's quite unnecessary. I don't think many of you nor I have seen lions up close as much as the Legend Safaris have. They have apparently been going on Safaris for 15 years. The only reason I sent this was because the admin of the group literally stated with his own mouth that Nhenha was huge, the largest of all males and the Southern Avocas were massive and impressive. Also speaking of how impressive the Torchwood Young Male was. For a person who has done it for 15 years, he must know alot and I'm pretty sure has more knowledge than any of us. I think you should all humble yourself to that belief because we are just enthusiasts behind devices. Even me, who has seen many lions and been on Safaris doesn't come close to his knowledge. So a debate where we doubt his word and think we know more of how lions scale is quite dumb imo when someone is seeing these animals almost daily. At the end of the day, people will believe what they wish and have a right to but this debate and going back and forth is quite dumb.
Great words my friend.
Which area you have visited during your Safari? I really glad to know that a member here has visited and see a wild lion!
(10-31-2020, 06:19 AM)Slayerd Wrote: Look, I don't know where all this debate came from and to be honest I think it's quite unnecessary. I don't think many of you nor I have seen lions up close as much as the Legend Safaris have. They have apparently been going on Safaris for 15 years. The only reason I sent this was because the admin of the group literally stated with his own mouth that Nhenha was huge, the largest of all males and the Southern Avocas were massive and impressive. Also speaking of how impressive the Torchwood Young Male was. For a person who has done it for 15 years, he must know alot and I'm pretty sure has more knowledge than any of us. I think you should all humble yourself to that belief because we are just enthusiasts behind devices. Even me, who has seen many lions and been on Safaris doesn't come close to his knowledge. So a debate where we doubt his word and think we know more of how lions scale is quite dumb imo when someone is seeing these animals almost daily. At the end of the day, people will believe what they wish and have a right to but this debate and going back and forth is quite dumb.
My friend, while I agree with most of what you said, I am not sure anyone needs to "humble yourself to that belief". It has been a debate based on subjective material, and we all know those rarely end well and often tend to get carried away. We are all free to have our own opinions here, and though the Legend Safaris crew comments were based on an educated opinion, it is still their opinion, nobody put anything on a scale or had them measured in any way.
I also agree, entirely, seeing an image of an animal does not compare with seeing them in person, an animal of any sort. Speaking from experience of having hunted Whitetail for more than 45 years, I can absolutely see two deer in the woods and tell which is the bigger animal, with no regard for rack size, and can often guess their weight within 10-15lbs, but by no means have I done that 100% of the time. I've also taken children into the stand with me, and they believe a yearling is the biggest deer on the property, and I've seen grown men make similar mistakes, again subjective. So, credence should certainly be given to the eyes on the ground, especially when those eyes are of someone who has been doing it for quite some time. I'm just not sure we should be telling anyone what they must believe or not, not without undeniable proof such as scale weights of the animals being discussed.
"Makhulu was an exceptionally large male, as well. No idea how he would compare to Nhenha, and there isn't any photos or video of Mapogos interaction with the Matimbas, in order to compare."
Tough to judge such thinks. There is not much informations about how would Mapogos compare in body size to other lions althrough Sabi Sabi ranger said that Mak and PB were bigger than KNP males which were massive males. I do not think "exceptionally" would be right world, but Mak should be very large lion.
" I don't believe he was ever weighed during one of the dartings by Willem Botha,"
No such thinks in KNP as far as I know.
" but he was visibly larger than the other Mapogos, both thickness and height."
I do not think he was. Dreadlocks was roughly same size and Pretty Boy with Mr T not far behind.
" That would be really helpful if they did weigh any of these animals while having them under sedation"
Helpfull to satisfy our curiosity? :) It sure would be intresting (for us) if they do so, I do not think lions themselfs need that tho.
" Do you have a belief on who might have been among the largest in SS history, or was your comment made in more general terms, like saying you're sure there have been bigger at some point?"
I was talking in general about lions I know that Sabi Sands guides claimed to be very large indyviduals, larger than other lions the arena. For example Southern Matimbas and Charlestons were always described by guides as massive males in any part of Sabi Sands they showed themselfs in.
The following 1 user Likes Potato's post:1 user Likes Potato's post • BA0701
(10-31-2020, 06:19 AM)Slayerd Wrote: Look, I don't know where all this debate came from and to be honest I think it's quite unnecessary. I don't think many of you nor I have seen lions up close as much as the Legend Safaris have. They have apparently been going on Safaris for 15 years. The only reason I sent this was because the admin of the group literally stated with his own mouth that Nhenha was huge, the largest of all males and the Southern Avocas were massive and impressive. Also speaking of how impressive the Torchwood Young Male was. For a person who has done it for 15 years, he must know alot and I'm pretty sure has more knowledge than any of us. I think you should all humble yourself to that belief because we are just enthusiasts behind devices. Even me, who has seen many lions and been on Safaris doesn't come close to his knowledge. So a debate where we doubt his word and think we know more of how lions scale is quite dumb imo when someone is seeing these animals almost daily. At the end of the day, people will believe what they wish and have a right to but this debate and going back and forth is quite dumb.
I agree and therefore when judging lions size I am following guides opinions. I presented other opinions of people who has seen those lions in Sabi Sands. I am not saying at all that I myself know know better about size comparison of those lions at all than peaple who seen them and worked with them.
(10-31-2020, 07:05 AM)Potato Wrote: "Makhulu was an exceptionally large male, as well. No idea how he would compare to Nhenha, and there isn't any photos or video of Mapogos interaction with the Matimbas, in order to compare."
Tough to judge such thinks. There is not much informations about how would Mapogos compare in body size to other lions althrough Sabi Sabi ranger said that Mak and PB were bigger than KNP males which were massive males. I do not think "exceptionally" would be right world, but Mak should be very large lion.
" I don't believe he was ever weighed during one of the dartings by Willem Botha,"
No such thinks in KNP as far as I know.
" but he was visibly larger than the other Mapogos, both thickness and height."
I do not think he was. Dreadlocks was roughly same size and Pretty Boy with Mr T not far behind.
" That would be really helpful if they did weigh any of these animals while having them under sedation"
Helpfull to satisfy our curiosity? :) It sure would be intresting (for us) if they do so, I do not think lions themselfs need that tho.
" Do you have a belief on who might have been among the largest in SS history, or was your comment made in more general terms, like saying you're sure there have been bigger at some point?"
I was talking in general about lions I know that Sabi Sands guides claimed to be very large indyviduals, larger than other lions the arena. For example Southern Matimbas and Charlestons were always described by guides as massive males in any part of Sabi Sands they showed themselfs in.
Tough to judge such thinks. There is not much informations about how would Mapogos compare in body size to other lions althrough Sabi Sabi ranger said that Mak and PB were bigger than KNP males which were massive males. I do not think "exceptionally" would be right world, but Mak should be very large lion.
I used the word exceptional due to comments of so many Rangers in videos and web posts that were along the lines of what you mentioned with the KNP males. Exceptional, in that most knowledgeable people, who were fortunate enough to witness them in person made similar statements about him.
I do not think he was. Dreadlocks was roughly same size and Pretty Boy with Mr T not far behind.
Oh, for sure, Dreadlocks was an absolute tank, and if we were fortunate enough to have seen actual weights, it would not surprise me at all if he was the heaviest of them all.
Helpfull to satisfy our curiosity? :) It sure would be intresting (for us) if they do so, I do not think lions themselfs need that tho.
Legit LOL'd. Yes, helpful to the current discussion taking place here. Anything short of that, and we are all simply expressing our opinions, and just like Hairy Belly's age, I'm afraid at this point that is all this particular conversation will be. Educated opinions, in some cases, but opinions nonetheless.
I was talking in general about lions I know that Sabi Sands guides claimed to be very large indyviduals, larger than other lions the arena. For example Southern Matimbas and Charlestons were always described by guides as massive males in any part of Sabi Sands they showed themselfs in.
Ok, I just wanted to check. There is tremendous knowledge on lions in this forum, including yours, so I didn't know if perhaps there was one in particular that is known to have been a monster above all others, or if it was simply a general comment. But, yes I agree as well, there will always be a bigger lion somewhere, either previously, currently, or even in the future.
(10-31-2020, 05:38 AM)Potato Wrote: Also yet about Southern Avocas, I remember Sabi Sabi in one of their blogs stated that they think Tsalala male are bigger then them. I am not sure how accurate is that, althrough even if they are roughly same size or a bit bigger than Tsalalas, still should be smaller than De Laportes. Hildas Rock male should look huge in comparison to Southern Avocas.
I do not think currenly we have in Sabi Sands really big lion, maybe beside Dark Mane Avoca. Nhanha should be clearly over avarage size lion, but deffinitelly not among largest lions ever seen in Sabi Sands.
Makhulu was an exceptionally large male, as well. No idea how he would compare to Nhenha, and there isn't any photos or video of Mapogos interaction with the Matimbas, in order to compare. I don't believe he was ever weighed during one of the dartings by Willem Botha, but he was visibly larger than the other Mapogos, both thickness and height. That would be really helpful if they did weigh any of these animals while having them under sedation, but I am not aware of them having ever done that. Do you have a belief on who might have been among the largest in SS history, or was your comment made in more general terms, like saying you're sure there have been bigger at some point?
Great theme to talk.
@BA0701
I have found an old comment on Londolozi blog about Mak weight that has been answered by Richard Laburn
Question by member: AL (5th September 2010 at 18:28)
Richard,
Hey thanks a ton for the info. Didn’t expect it so soon. I unexpectedly came across this whole story of the Mapogos of Londolozi watching a YouTube video of John Varty sneaking up on a resting male lion. He gave a bit of introduction about the cat, I typed it in Google and was instantly introduced to a world of awe and violence as I have never researched lions like this before.
The Makulu Mapogo intrigues me like nothing else. He seems larger than most lions. Any specifics about his size and weight – estimate? Also, what about the other three lions, with the exception of Mr_t/SATAN? How are they holding on especially their physical conditions? I’d be overjoyed to see recent pics if any.
Once again, much appreciation for such a swift and well put response.
Regards
Al
Rich Laburn answer: Al, glad you found the information interesting. I know the video that you are talking about with JV sneaking up on the resting male. ?
As mentioned in the previous comment, I know nothing about the wellbeing of the Makulu male, however the following links will be helpful to you in furthering your research. You can try Rob the Ranger here: http://www.facebook.com/robtheranger or try Idube blog here http://idubelodge.blogspot.com/. There is also the Wildearth community to discuss Mapogo information, find them here: http://idubelodge.blogspot.com/. There should be people there who will be able to give you estimations of his size, weight, etc. BUt off the top of my head, you’re looking at 200 – 240 kg. Anything over 250kg is a very big male lion.
You will also be able to find recent pics of them on these resources. If they venture onto Londolozi anytime soon, I will definitely put some pics and video up.
At present we have the Majingilane moving throughout much of our central and northern areas. It will be worth understanding a following this coalition of males as well. They will certainly play their part in Sabi Sands history. You can find more resources on them here: http://blog.londolozi.com/2010/08/lion-w...te-part-4/
Please let me know how it goes and continue to contribute to the blog with your questions, thoughts and discussion. It is great to be able to provide answers to you and everybody else who is reading this.
Wow, thank you for this very informative post @"TinoArmando" , and about a particular lion that I can never get too much information about. So, 250KG is the magic mark, just like the Whitetail I mentioned previously. Where I hunt in South Carolina anything above 250lbs is a massive buck, and that number gets higher the more north in my country you go, I killed a 210lbs doe in Wisconsin and up there bucks regularly go over 300lbs. Do you happen to know if there have been any wild lions that were weighed on a scale, over 250KG? Thank you, again, for the reply my friend!
(10-31-2020, 05:38 AM)Potato Wrote: Also yet about Southern Avocas, I remember Sabi Sabi in one of their blogs stated that they think Tsalala male are bigger then them. I am not sure how accurate is that, althrough even if they are roughly same size or a bit bigger than Tsalalas, still should be smaller than De Laportes. Hildas Rock male should look huge in comparison to Southern Avocas.
I do not think currenly we have in Sabi Sands really big lion, maybe beside Dark Mane Avoca. Nhanha should be clearly over avarage size lion, but deffinitelly not among largest lions ever seen in Sabi Sands.
Makhulu was an exceptionally large male, as well. No idea how he would compare to Nhenha, and there isn't any photos or video of Mapogos interaction with the Matimbas, in order to compare. I don't believe he was ever weighed during one of the dartings by Willem Botha, but he was visibly larger than the other Mapogos, both thickness and height. That would be really helpful if they did weigh any of these animals while having them under sedation, but I am not aware of them having ever done that. Do you have a belief on who might have been among the largest in SS history, or was your comment made in more general terms, like saying you're sure there have been bigger at some point?
Great theme to talk.
@BA0701
I have found an old comment on Londolozi blog about Mak weight that has been answered by Richard Laburn
Question by member: AL (5th September 2010 at 18:28)
Richard,
Hey thanks a ton for the info. Didn’t expect it so soon. I unexpectedly came across this whole story of the Mapogos of Londolozi watching a YouTube video of John Varty sneaking up on a resting male lion. He gave a bit of introduction about the cat, I typed it in Google and was instantly introduced to a world of awe and violence as I have never researched lions like this before.
The Makulu Mapogo intrigues me like nothing else. He seems larger than most lions. Any specifics about his size and weight – estimate? Also, what about the other three lions, with the exception of Mr_t/SATAN? How are they holding on especially their physical conditions? I’d be overjoyed to see recent pics if any.
Once again, much appreciation for such a swift and well put response.
Regards
Al
Rich Laburn answer: Al, glad you found the information interesting. I know the video that you are talking about with JV sneaking up on the resting male. ?
As mentioned in the previous comment, I know nothing about the wellbeing of the Makulu male, however the following links will be helpful to you in furthering your research. You can try Rob the Ranger here: http://www.facebook.com/robtheranger or try Idube blog here http://idubelodge.blogspot.com/. There is also the Wildearth community to discuss Mapogo information, find them here: http://idubelodge.blogspot.com/. There should be people there who will be able to give you estimations of his size, weight, etc. BUt off the top of my head, you’re looking at 200 – 240 kg. Anything over 250kg is a very big male lion.
You will also be able to find recent pics of them on these resources. If they venture onto Londolozi anytime soon, I will definitely put some pics and video up.
At present we have the Majingilane moving throughout much of our central and northern areas. It will be worth understanding a following this coalition of males as well. They will certainly play their part in Sabi Sands history. You can find more resources on them here: http://blog.londolozi.com/2010/08/lion-w...te-part-4/
Please let me know how it goes and continue to contribute to the blog with your questions, thoughts and discussion. It is great to be able to provide answers to you and everybody else who is reading this.
Wow, thank you for this very informative post @"TinoArmando" , and about a particular lion that I can never get too much information about. So, 250KG is the magic mark, just like the Whitetail I mentioned previously. Where I hunt in South Carolina anything above 250lbs is a massive buck, and that number gets higher the more north in my country you go, I killed a 210lbs doe in Wisconsin and up there bucks regularly go over 300lbs. Do you happen to know if there have been any wild lions that were weighed on a scale, over 250KG? Thank you, again, for the reply my friend!
The old Birmingham male was one of them and If i not mistake Ximpoko. Both males were weighed in Timbavati. Almero of the Timbavati HQ once posted Images of them
10-31-2020, 07:57 AM( This post was last modified: 10-31-2020, 08:01 AM by T I N O )
(10-31-2020, 07:34 AM)BA0701 Wrote:
(10-31-2020, 07:05 AM)Potato Wrote: "Makhulu was an exceptionally large male, as well. No idea how he would compare to Nhenha, and there isn't any photos or video of Mapogos interaction with the Matimbas, in order to compare."
Tough to judge such thinks. There is not much informations about how would Mapogos compare in body size to other lions althrough Sabi Sabi ranger said that Mak and PB were bigger than KNP males which were massive males. I do not think "exceptionally" would be right world, but Mak should be very large lion.
" I don't believe he was ever weighed during one of the dartings by Willem Botha,"
No such thinks in KNP as far as I know.
" but he was visibly larger than the other Mapogos, both thickness and height."
I do not think he was. Dreadlocks was roughly same size and Pretty Boy with Mr T not far behind.
" That would be really helpful if they did weigh any of these animals while having them under sedation"
Helpfull to satisfy our curiosity? :) It sure would be intresting (for us) if they do so, I do not think lions themselfs need that tho.
" Do you have a belief on who might have been among the largest in SS history, or was your comment made in more general terms, like saying you're sure there have been bigger at some point?"
I was talking in general about lions I know that Sabi Sands guides claimed to be very large indyviduals, larger than other lions the arena. For example Southern Matimbas and Charlestons were always described by guides as massive males in any part of Sabi Sands they showed themselfs in.
Tough to judge such thinks. There is not much informations about how would Mapogos compare in body size to other lions althrough Sabi Sabi ranger said that Mak and PB were bigger than KNP males which were massive males. I do not think "exceptionally" would be right world, but Mak should be very large lion.
I used the word exceptional due to comments of so many Rangers in videos and web posts that were along the lines of what you mentioned with the KNP males. Exceptional, in that most knowledgeable people, who were fortunate enough to witness them in person made similar statements about him.
I do not think he was. Dreadlocks was roughly same size and Pretty Boy with Mr T not far behind.
Oh, for sure, Dreadlocks was an absolute tank, and if we were fortunate enough to have seen actual weights, it would not surprise me at all if he was the heaviest of them all.
Helpfull to satisfy our curiosity? :) It sure would be intresting (for us) if they do so, I do not think lions themselfs need that tho.
Legit LOL'd. Yes, helpful to the current discussion taking place here. Anything short of that, and we are all simply expressing our opinions, and just like Hairy Belly's age, I'm afraid at this point that is all this particular conversation will be. Educated opinions, in some cases, but opinions nonetheless.
I was talking in general about lions I know that Sabi Sands guides claimed to be very large indyviduals, larger than other lions the arena. For example Southern Matimbas and Charlestons were always described by guides as massive males in any part of Sabi Sands they showed themselfs in.
Ok, I just wanted to check. There is tremendous knowledge on lions in this forum, including yours, so I didn't know if perhaps there was one in particular that is known to have been a monster above all others, or if it was simply a general comment. But, yes I agree as well, there will always be a bigger lion somewhere, either previously, currently, or even in the future.
I couldn't be more agree with the words about Dreadlocks Mapogo. He was a formidable beast. the size of his head and paws was AMAZING and EXTREMELY big! He was the leader alongside Makhulu.
Dreadlock also was the father of the cub named "The Super Cub"
Here's a few good photos of Dreadlocks. at first glace we can see how big he once was on his prime days!
Image credits goes to: Khimbini Hlongwane,Michael Moss and S.Maan
Images date back from: July 2010 - 2007 - November 2007.
(10-31-2020, 07:05 AM)Potato Wrote: "Makhulu was an exceptionally large male, as well. No idea how he would compare to Nhenha, and there isn't any photos or video of Mapogos interaction with the Matimbas, in order to compare."
Tough to judge such thinks. There is not much informations about how would Mapogos compare in body size to other lions althrough Sabi Sabi ranger said that Mak and PB were bigger than KNP males which were massive males. I do not think "exceptionally" would be right world, but Mak should be very large lion.
" I don't believe he was ever weighed during one of the dartings by Willem Botha,"
No such thinks in KNP as far as I know.
" but he was visibly larger than the other Mapogos, both thickness and height."
I do not think he was. Dreadlocks was roughly same size and Pretty Boy with Mr T not far behind.
" That would be really helpful if they did weigh any of these animals while having them under sedation"
Helpfull to satisfy our curiosity? :) It sure would be intresting (for us) if they do so, I do not think lions themselfs need that tho.
" Do you have a belief on who might have been among the largest in SS history, or was your comment made in more general terms, like saying you're sure there have been bigger at some point?"
I was talking in general about lions I know that Sabi Sands guides claimed to be very large indyviduals, larger than other lions the arena. For example Southern Matimbas and Charlestons were always described by guides as massive males in any part of Sabi Sands they showed themselfs in.
Tough to judge such thinks. There is not much informations about how would Mapogos compare in body size to other lions althrough Sabi Sabi ranger said that Mak and PB were bigger than KNP males which were massive males. I do not think "exceptionally" would be right world, but Mak should be very large lion.
I used the word exceptional due to comments of so many Rangers in videos and web posts that were along the lines of what you mentioned with the KNP males. Exceptional, in that most knowledgeable people, who were fortunate enough to witness them in person made similar statements about him.
I do not think he was. Dreadlocks was roughly same size and Pretty Boy with Mr T not far behind.
Oh, for sure, Dreadlocks was an absolute tank, and if we were fortunate enough to have seen actual weights, it would not surprise me at all if he was the heaviest of them all.
Helpfull to satisfy our curiosity? :) It sure would be intresting (for us) if they do so, I do not think lions themselfs need that tho.
Legit LOL'd. Yes, helpful to the current discussion taking place here. Anything short of that, and we are all simply expressing our opinions, and just like Hairy Belly's age, I'm afraid at this point that is all this particular conversation will be. Educated opinions, in some cases, but opinions nonetheless.
I was talking in general about lions I know that Sabi Sands guides claimed to be very large indyviduals, larger than other lions the arena. For example Southern Matimbas and Charlestons were always described by guides as massive males in any part of Sabi Sands they showed themselfs in.
Ok, I just wanted to check. There is tremendous knowledge on lions in this forum, including yours, so I didn't know if perhaps there was one in particular that is known to have been a monster above all others, or if it was simply a general comment. But, yes I agree as well, there will always be a bigger lion somewhere, either previously, currently, or even in the future.
I couldn't be more agree with the words about Dreadlocks Mapogo. He was a formidable beast. the size of his head and paws was AMAZING and EXTREMELY big! He was the leader alongside Makhulu.
Dreadlock also was the father of the cub named "The Super Cub"
Here's a few good photos of Dreadlocks. at first glace we can see how big he once was on his prime days!
Image credits goes to: Khimbini Hlongwane,Michael Moss and S.Maan
Images date back from: July 2010 - 2007 - November 2007.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Which pride was "Super Cub" born into, and what happened to him? These pictures, especially the bottom one, are perfect examples of what my preferred body type is for lions. Dreadlocks literally looks like he could walk through a brick wall in that image. including that absolutely huge head of his. Still cannot believe he got poached, remove the human intervention from the equation, and who knows how things might have turned out.
The following 1 user Likes BA0701's post:1 user Likes BA0701's post • T I N O
(10-31-2020, 07:05 AM)Potato Wrote: "Makhulu was an exceptionally large male, as well. No idea how he would compare to Nhenha, and there isn't any photos or video of Mapogos interaction with the Matimbas, in order to compare."
Tough to judge such thinks. There is not much informations about how would Mapogos compare in body size to other lions althrough Sabi Sabi ranger said that Mak and PB were bigger than KNP males which were massive males. I do not think "exceptionally" would be right world, but Mak should be very large lion.
" I don't believe he was ever weighed during one of the dartings by Willem Botha,"
No such thinks in KNP as far as I know.
" but he was visibly larger than the other Mapogos, both thickness and height."
I do not think he was. Dreadlocks was roughly same size and Pretty Boy with Mr T not far behind.
" That would be really helpful if they did weigh any of these animals while having them under sedation"
Helpfull to satisfy our curiosity? :) It sure would be intresting (for us) if they do so, I do not think lions themselfs need that tho.
" Do you have a belief on who might have been among the largest in SS history, or was your comment made in more general terms, like saying you're sure there have been bigger at some point?"
I was talking in general about lions I know that Sabi Sands guides claimed to be very large indyviduals, larger than other lions the arena. For example Southern Matimbas and Charlestons were always described by guides as massive males in any part of Sabi Sands they showed themselfs in.
Tough to judge such thinks. There is not much informations about how would Mapogos compare in body size to other lions althrough Sabi Sabi ranger said that Mak and PB were bigger than KNP males which were massive males. I do not think "exceptionally" would be right world, but Mak should be very large lion.
I used the word exceptional due to comments of so many Rangers in videos and web posts that were along the lines of what you mentioned with the KNP males. Exceptional, in that most knowledgeable people, who were fortunate enough to witness them in person made similar statements about him.
I do not think he was. Dreadlocks was roughly same size and Pretty Boy with Mr T not far behind.
Oh, for sure, Dreadlocks was an absolute tank, and if we were fortunate enough to have seen actual weights, it would not surprise me at all if he was the heaviest of them all.
Helpfull to satisfy our curiosity? :) It sure would be intresting (for us) if they do so, I do not think lions themselfs need that tho.
Legit LOL'd. Yes, helpful to the current discussion taking place here. Anything short of that, and we are all simply expressing our opinions, and just like Hairy Belly's age, I'm afraid at this point that is all this particular conversation will be. Educated opinions, in some cases, but opinions nonetheless.
I was talking in general about lions I know that Sabi Sands guides claimed to be very large indyviduals, larger than other lions the arena. For example Southern Matimbas and Charlestons were always described by guides as massive males in any part of Sabi Sands they showed themselfs in.
Ok, I just wanted to check. There is tremendous knowledge on lions in this forum, including yours, so I didn't know if perhaps there was one in particular that is known to have been a monster above all others, or if it was simply a general comment. But, yes I agree as well, there will always be a bigger lion somewhere, either previously, currently, or even in the future.
I couldn't be more agree with the words about Dreadlocks Mapogo. He was a formidable beast. the size of his head and paws was AMAZING and EXTREMELY big! He was the leader alongside Makhulu.
Dreadlock also was the father of the cub named "The Super Cub"
Here's a few good photos of Dreadlocks. at first glace we can see how big he once was on his prime days!
Image credits goes to: Khimbini Hlongwane,Michael Moss and S.Maan
Images date back from: July 2010 - 2007 - November 2007.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Which pride was "Super Cub" born into, and what happened to him? These pictures, especially the bottom one, are perfect examples of what my preferred body type is for lions. Dreadlocks literally looks like he could walk through a brick wall in that image. including that absolutely huge head of his. Still cannot believe he got poached, remove the human intervention from the equation, and who knows how things might have turned out.
The Super cub born into the Ximhungwe pride.
That impressive cub has been killed by Mr T. I'll post images of the Super Cub in Mapogo thread, If you want take a look there more than welcome
