Lions of Sabi Sands

[Hairy tummy]

Who sired the torchwood young male?
Nhenha certainly gets billed as the most impressive lion in SS, how does he compare to the his fallen coalition brothers? Reply

[Tr1x24]

(10-30-2020, 11:03 PM)Gijima Wrote: Possibly the Sand River pride with oldest, “missing” cub?
Tengile River Lodge
10/25/20
kirstensk_31

Yes, great news! Reply

[Tr1x24]

(10-30-2020, 11:23 PM)Hairy tummy Wrote: Who sired the torchwood young male?
Nhenha certainly gets billed as the most impressive lion in SS, how does he compare to the his fallen coalition brothers?

He looks like Nhenha..

Nhenha was the biggest of the Birminghams, only Mfumo came close to size, but in my opinion Nhenha was bigger/longer.. Reply

[T I N O]

Legend Safaris  saw to the 2 Birmingham/Gowrie males and the five Avoca males. That's why I've said this. Reply

[T I N O]

(10-30-2020, 11:23 PM)Hairy tummy Wrote: Who sired the torchwood young male?
Nhenha certainly gets billed as the most impressive lion in SS, how does he compare to the his fallen coalition brothers?

Nhenha has sired the majority of the cubs of the Torchwood pride in my opinion. As Well to the young Marthly Lioness Reply

[Tr1x24]

(10-30-2020, 11:27 PM)TinoArmando Wrote: Legend Safaris  saw to the 2 Birmingham/Gowrie males and the five Avoca males. That's why I've said this.

Im saying that massive and impressive as he described S. Avocas doesnt means that they are biggest..

And as far as I understand @Slayerd, they have been in MalaMala, so they definitely didnt see DM Avoca and Hairy Belly Matimba.. Reply

[Gijima]

(10-30-2020, 11:43 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:

(10-30-2020, 11:27 PM)TinoArmando Wrote: Legend Safaris  saw to the 2 Birmingham/Gowrie males and the five Avoca males. That's why I've said this.

Im saying that massive and impressive as he described S. Avocas doesnt means that they are biggest..

And as far as I understand @Slayerd, they have been in MalaMala, so they definitely didnt see DM Avoca and Hairy Belly Matimba..

How would you even verify any of this unless they are standing next to each other? Even then (with Mfumo and Nhena) it was almost impossible to figure out. But because some ranger saw different coalitions at different sightings, doing completely different things (sitting, standing, yawning) and from different distances.. they would know if one lion in 1 inch bigger than another? 

I think the only factual thing we can say is that IN MY OPINION, I find a particular lion impressive. In some rare cases (like Dark Mane) it's obvious he is bigger than his coalition members. Nhena is also obviously bigger than Tinyo. But comparing lions across coalition is almost impossible. 

I would have loved to hear Legand Safari tell us about the SIX coalitions they saw in Mala Mala, the lion dynamics in that area and a lot more other interesting things about their visit. Reply

[Tr1x24]

(10-30-2020, 11:59 PM)Gijima Wrote: How would you even verify any of this unless they are standing next to each other? Even then (with Mfumo and Nhena) it was almost impossible to figure out. But because some ranger saw different coalitions at different sightings, doing completely different things (sitting, standing, yawning) and from different distances.. they would know if one lion in 1 inch bigger than another? 

I think the only factual thing we can say is that IN MY OPINION, I find a particular lion impressive. In some rare cases (like Dark Mane) it's obvious he is bigger than his coalition members. Nhena is also obviously bigger than Tinyo. But comparing lions across coalition is almost impossible. 

I would have loved to hear Legand Safari tell us about the SIX coalitions they saw in Mala Mala, the lion dynamics in that area and a lot more other interesting things about their visit.

Yes, its impossible to know, even if you see that lion in person, you cant know if they are bigger or smaller then other lion if they dont stand against each others, because size difference between lions is pretty small.. 

We just know that DM is bigger then his brothers and Nhenha is bigger then Tinyo, and based of this we "assume" they are the biggest because we and rangers/people see that size difference..

Best mesure is to see different males with the same lioness.. We seen Nhenha and OM with the same lioness, and Nhenha to me appears more massive/bulkier but i dont think that OM is any smaller then Nhenha, prob very close in size.. Reply

[T I N O]

(10-30-2020, 11:43 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:

(10-30-2020, 11:27 PM)TinoArmando Wrote: Legend Safaris  saw to the 2 Birmingham/Gowrie males and the five Avoca males. That's why I've said this.

Im saying that massive and impressive as he described S. Avocas doesnt means that they are biggest..

And as far as I understand @Slayerd, they have been in MalaMala, so they definitely didnt see DM Avoca and Hairy Belly Matimba..

Okay. 

Legend Safaris saw to DM Avoca a couple of months ago in the northern Sabi Sands. I believe that the LS page is managed by the same persons... Anyway could be great if someone ask for this same question to them Reply

[Slayerd]

(10-30-2020, 11:59 PM)Gijima Wrote:

(10-30-2020, 11:43 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:

(10-30-2020, 11:27 PM)TinoArmando Wrote: Legend Safaris  saw to the 2 Birmingham/Gowrie males and the five Avoca males. That's why I've said this.

Im saying that massive and impressive as he described S. Avocas doesnt means that they are biggest..

And as far as I understand @Slayerd, they have been in MalaMala, so they definitely didnt see DM Avoca and Hairy Belly Matimba..

How would you even verify any of this unless they are standing next to each other? Even then (with Mfumo and Nhena) it was almost impossible to figure out. But because some ranger saw different coalitions at different sightings, doing completely different things (sitting, standing, yawning) and from different distances.. they would know if one lion in 1 inch bigger than another? 

I think the only factual thing we can say is that IN MY OPINION, I find a particular lion impressive. In some rare cases (like Dark Mane) it's obvious he is bigger than his coalition members. Nhena is also obviously bigger than Tinyo. But comparing lions across coalition is almost impossible. 

I would have loved to hear Legand Safari tell us about the SIX coalitions they saw in Mala Mala, the lion dynamics in that area and a lot more other interesting things about their visit.

Because they are seeing the lions up close and can tell the difference. They can SEE difference. If they are looking at something with their own eyes and they think it is more impressive than something else, then it probably is. They don't need to see them next to each other, they can tell by seeing the same thing at 2 different times. And the funny thing is this isn't the only people who have said this. Ranger Nic has said it, Singita rangers have said it, Nkorho rangers have said it, Legends Safari has said it. I've spoken to Zaheer Ali, the photographer and he has also said it. These people are seeing these animals with their own eyes and can obviously tell a difference. It's us behind these phones that are the ones who shouldn't act like we have the knowledge. Reply

[Tr1x24]

(10-31-2020, 01:27 AM)Slayerd Wrote: Because they are seeing the lions up close and can tell the difference. They can SEE difference. If they are looking at something with their own eyes and they think it is more impressive than something else, then it probably is. They don't need to see them next to each other, they can tell by seeing the same thing at 2 different times. And the funny thing is this isn't the only people who have said this. Ranger Nic has said it, Singita rangers have said it, Nkorho rangers have said it, Legends Safari has said it. I've spoken to Zaheer Ali, the photographer and he has also said it. These people are seeing these animals with their own eyes and can obviously tell a difference. It's us behind these phones that are the ones who shouldn't act like we have the knowledge.

Well they can see the difference between some lions where the size difference is bigger, for example between Nhenha and Mohawk, even when not seen together you could tell that Nhenha is bigger/more impressive.. 

But between some lions that are very close in size, its impossible to tell who is bigger unless you see them side by side..

For example if somebody seen Hairy Belly and Ginger separeted, its impossible to tell who is bigger, because size difference between the 2 is minimal.. Reply

[Slayerd]

(10-31-2020, 01:43 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:

(10-31-2020, 01:27 AM)Slayerd Wrote: Because they are seeing the lions up close and can tell the difference. They can SEE difference. If they are looking at something with their own eyes and they think it is more impressive than something else, then it probably is. They don't need to see them next to each other, they can tell by seeing the same thing at 2 different times. And the funny thing is this isn't the only people who have said this. Ranger Nic has said it, Singita rangers have said it, Nkorho rangers have said it, Legends Safari has said it. I've spoken to Zaheer Ali, the photographer and he has also said it. These people are seeing these animals with their own eyes and can obviously tell a difference. It's us behind these phones that are the ones who shouldn't act like we have the knowledge.

Well they can see the difference between some lions where the size difference is bigger, for example between Nhenha and Mohawk, even when not seen together you could tell that Nhenha is bigger/more impressive.. 

But between some lions that are very close in size, its impossible to tell who is bigger unless you see them side by side..

For example if somebody seen Hairy Belly and Ginger separeted, its impossible to tell who is bigger, because size difference between the 2 is minimal..

And yet Hairy Belly has been said countless times to be bigger by rangers. You see these people are looking at these 14 lions in just 9 days. It's not like he saw one 2 years ago and is saying Nhenha is bigger. He is seeing them all in a very short time period. The thing is, you brought up the Othawa Male right? He wasn't even mentioned as 1 of the most impressive. The other males they mentioned was the 2 Southern Avocas. So if he was someone they also thought was Big and could not tell a difference in size between him and Nhenha, then they would have mentioned him. If these rangers, guides and photographers are seeing these lions and saying 1 is more impressive then that 1 is just more impressive. There is nothing more to add. And like I said before, it's not like Legends Safari is the only people to say this for us to doubt them. Reply

[Cunaguaro]

(10-30-2020, 11:59 PM)Gijima Wrote:

(10-30-2020, 11:43 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:

(10-30-2020, 11:27 PM)TinoArmando Wrote: Legend Safaris  saw to the 2 Birmingham/Gowrie males and the five Avoca males. That's why I've said this.

Im saying that massive and impressive as he described S. Avocas doesnt means that they are biggest..

And as far as I understand @Slayerd, they have been in MalaMala, so they definitely didnt see DM Avoca and Hairy Belly Matimba..

How would you even verify any of this unless they are standing next to each other? Even then (with Mfumo and Nhena) it was almost impossible to figure out. But because some ranger saw different coalitions at different sightings, doing completely different things (sitting, standing, yawning) and from different distances.. they would know if one lion in 1 inch bigger than another? 

I think the only factual thing we can say is that IN MY OPINION, I find a particular lion impressive. In some rare cases (like Dark Mane) it's obvious he is bigger than his coalition members. Nhena is also obviously bigger than Tinyo. But comparing lions across coalition is almost impossible. 

I would have loved to hear Legand Safari tell us about the SIX coalitions they saw in Mala Mala, the lion dynamics in that area and a lot more other interesting things about their visit.

It is not so impossible to see, in this video it is clearly appreciated that Nenha is taller than Mfumo but not more bulky. The thread of the Birmingham males could be seen in previous years photos where the 4 lions are together one next to the other and the height and volume of each could be compared, I will try to find those photos and if I find them I will share here.

However, in many cases it is a matter of appreciation, it may vary depending on who the male you are observing is with at a certain moment since if he is with a lioness the difference in size will be much more noticeable (and this tends to impress). whether the male in question is with any of his coalition partners.

On the other hand, I think that one of the members of the southern avoca coalition "biggermane" could be a good analogy with Mfumo compared to Nenha as we see in the video.

Reply

[Tr1x24]

(10-31-2020, 01:57 AM)Slayerd Wrote: And yet Hairy Belly has been said countless times to be bigger by rangers

Yes, because they see him side by side with Ginger, watch them separeted and they would not know the difference, because the size difference between them is very small, not like size difference between Nhenha and Tinyo which is big.. 

(10-31-2020, 01:57 AM)Slayerd Wrote: The other males they mentioned was the 2 Southern Avocas.

They said S. Avocas are "massive and impressive"... Which they are, but massive and impressive doesnt neccesary means the biggest.. Biggermaned male is absolute tank, he looks very impressive, but that doesnt means that he is big as Nhenha in height..

Im just saying that if 2 lions are close in size, i mean 1, 2 cm difference, its impossible to tell if you dont see those lions side by side.. Reply

[Gijima]

(10-31-2020, 02:03 AM)Cunaguaro Wrote:

(10-30-2020, 11:59 PM)Gijima Wrote:

(10-30-2020, 11:43 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:

(10-30-2020, 11:27 PM)TinoArmando Wrote: Legend Safaris  saw to the 2 Birmingham/Gowrie males and the five Avoca males. That's why I've said this.

Im saying that massive and impressive as he described S. Avocas doesnt means that they are biggest..

And as far as I understand @Slayerd, they have been in MalaMala, so they definitely didnt see DM Avoca and Hairy Belly Matimba..

How would you even verify any of this unless they are standing next to each other? Even then (with Mfumo and Nhena) it was almost impossible to figure out. But because some ranger saw different coalitions at different sightings, doing completely different things (sitting, standing, yawning) and from different distances.. they would know if one lion in 1 inch bigger than another? 

I think the only factual thing we can say is that IN MY OPINION, I find a particular lion impressive. In some rare cases (like Dark Mane) it's obvious he is bigger than his coalition members. Nhena is also obviously bigger than Tinyo. But comparing lions across coalition is almost impossible. 

I would have loved to hear Legand Safari tell us about the SIX coalitions they saw in Mala Mala, the lion dynamics in that area and a lot more other interesting things about their visit.

It is not so impossible to see, in this video it is clearly appreciated that Nenha is taller than Mfumo but not more bulky. The thread of the Birmingham males could be seen in previous years photos where the 4 lions are together one next to the other and the height and volume of each could be compared, I will try to find those photos and if I find them I will share here.

However, in many cases it is a matter of appreciation, it may vary depending on who the male you are observing is with at a certain moment since if he is with a lioness the difference in size will be much more noticeable (and this tends to impress). whether the male in question is with any of his coalition partners.

On the other hand, I think that one of the members of the southern avoca coalition "biggermane" could be a good analogy with Mfumo compared to Nenha as we see in the video.

Yet you can also see Nhena is walking slight closer to the camera. And anyways this is the perfect example of why this conversation is irrelevant.... in a fight do you think Nhena’s two centimeters in height matters more than Mfumo’s 20 extra Lbs of weight? And also, when you watched the video could you really tell who was bigger or did you have to keep pausing it and slowing it down? Live sightings are the worst for making comparisons... pictures are better. 

When some one asks a ranger if Nhena is the biggest lion in SS, they’ll say “sure”... But I don’t think they think you really going to treat it as a indisputable scientific fact. The same thing with ages or any other history... 

You don’t measure the height of anything of similar size by just “seeing” it. That’s not how height is measured. You and I know how tall we are not by using our XMen laser vision eyes, but because we actually measured ourselves. There are taller lions in the SS (dark mane, HB, Nhena) there are bulkier lions (Southern Avocas) and leaner ones (N Avocas).... those are all facts. And no guide needs to tell me Ottawa Male is impressive. He is absolutely an impressive male. Reply