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(01-01-2019, 03:41 AM)Shadow Wrote: At this point I found some sites giving to wolves in Finland female average weightto be 32-35 kg (70,5-77 lbs) and to males 40 kg (88 lbs), but I couldn´t find to what that information is based. I will look closer with better time.
I think this is the most precise data, since the males from South Europe are bit smaller than those from Northern Europe and their average is 40 kg.
So comparison of different subspecies should be:
1. Arabian wolf (the smallest) - average male - 20,41 kg
2. Indian wolf - average 25 to 28 kg
2. Wolves from Southern Europe - 38-40 kg
3. Northern Europe - 45 kg
4. West Canadian and Yellowstone wolves - 51 kg
I'm originally from South-East Europe (Bulgaria) when I came to Canada noticed that Canadian wolves are significantly larger, exactly their paws when I saw their traces in the snowy Rocky mountains was shocked ... huge beasts...
Also there are some differences in the coloration between European and North American wolves. While in the majority of Europe wolves are brown or brownish North American wolves are often black, grey or white, few of them are really brownish. Term "grey wolf" actually comes from America and its not very suitable for European wolves. Of course all polar wolves are white.
For example such coloration is hard to be found in Europe and is typical for Western Canada:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
While typical European wolf look like this:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Happy New Year by the way!
That 45 kg for males can be quite ok, I am not sure how accurate statistics there are. For instance Swedish site gives size range 35-55 kg and here in Finland have been bigger, I remember one shot wolf, which was told to be 65 kg and bigger have been observed as far as I know. We have that situation, that some packs come and go between Russia and Finland too. And even though we have big forests all over Finland, naturally in Russia there is so much more space for these animals.
01-01-2019, 05:21 AM( This post was last modified: 01-01-2019, 05:22 AM by Shadow )
(01-01-2019, 05:04 AM)Wolverine Wrote:
(01-01-2019, 04:55 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(01-01-2019, 04:38 AM)Wolverine Wrote:
(01-01-2019, 03:41 AM)Shadow Wrote: At this point I found some sites giving to wolves in Finland female average weightto be 32-35 kg (70,5-77 lbs) and to males 40 kg (88 lbs), but I couldn´t find to what that information is based. I will look closer with better time.
I think this is the most precise data, since the males from South Europe are bit smaller than those from Northern Europe and their average is 40 kg.
So comparison of different subspecies should be:
1. Arabian wolf (the smallest) - average male - 20,41 kg
2. Indian wolf - average 25 to 28 kg
2. Wolves from Southern Europe - 38-40 kg
3. Northern Europe - 45 kg
4. West Canadian and Yellowstone wolves - 51 kg
I'm originally from South-East Europe (Bulgaria) when I came to Canada noticed that Canadian wolves are significantly larger, exactly their paws when I saw their traces in the snowy Rocky mountains was shocked ... huge beasts...
Also there are some differences in the coloration between European and North American wolves. While in the majority of Europe wolves are brown or brownish North American wolves are often black, grey or white, few of them are really brownish. Term "grey wolf" actually comes from America and its not very suitable for European wolves. Of course all polar wolves are white.
For example such coloration is hard to be found in Europe and is typical for Western Canada:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
While typical European wolf look like this:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Happy New Year by the way!
That 45 kg for males can be quite ok, I am not sure how accurate statistics there are. For instance Swedish site gives size range 35-55 kg and here in Finland have been bigger, I remember one shot wolf, which was told to be 65 kg and bigger have been observed as far as I know. We have that situation, that some packs come and go between Russia and Finland too. And even though we have big forests all over Finland, naturally in Russia there is so much more space for these animals.
Do you have any personal experience with wolves?
I live in area, where wolves are seen time to time. This year 2-3 times within 2-3 kilometers from my house. But there is no pack hunting in nearby forests, but time to time some wolves have been passing by, usually lonely ones. Wild animals are easy to see here and I often see those, but bears, wolves and lynxes are very difficult to spot :)
(01-01-2019, 03:41 AM)Shadow Wrote: At this point I found some sites giving to wolves in Finland female average weightto be 32-35 kg (70,5-77 lbs) and to males 40 kg (88 lbs), but I couldn´t find to what that information is based. I will look closer with better time.
I think this is the most precise data, since the males from South Europe are bit smaller than those from Northern Europe and their average is 40 kg.
So comparison of different subspecies should be:
1. Arabian wolf (the smallest) - average male - 20,41 kg
2. Indian wolf - average 25 to 28 kg
2. Wolves from Southern Europe - 38-40 kg
3. Northern Europe - 45 kg
4. West Canadian and Yellowstone wolves - 51 kg
I'm originally from South-East Europe (Bulgaria) when I came to Canada noticed that Canadian wolves are significantly larger, exactly their paws when I saw their traces in the snowy Rocky mountains was shocked ... huge beasts...
Also there are some differences in the coloration between European and North American wolves. While in the majority of Europe wolves are brown or brownish North American wolves are often black, grey or white, few of them are really brownish. Term "grey wolf" actually comes from America and its not very suitable for European wolves. Of course all polar wolves are white.
For example such coloration is hard to be found in Europe and is typical for Western Canada:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
While typical European wolf look like this:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Happy New Year by the way!
That 45 kg for males can be quite ok, I am not sure how accurate statistics there are. For instance Swedish site gives size range 35-55 kg and here in Finland have been bigger, I remember one shot wolf, which was told to be 65 kg and bigger have been observed as far as I know. We have that situation, that some packs come and go between Russia and Finland too. And even though we have big forests all over Finland, naturally in Russia there is so much more space for these animals.
Do you have any personal experience with wolves?
Here is a little bit more information about wolves in Finland:
01-01-2019, 06:25 AM( This post was last modified: 01-01-2019, 12:05 PM by Wolverine )
(01-01-2019, 05:21 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(01-01-2019, 05:04 AM)Wolverine Wrote:
(01-01-2019, 04:55 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(01-01-2019, 04:38 AM)Wolverine Wrote:
(01-01-2019, 03:41 AM)Shadow Wrote: At this point I found some sites giving to wolves in Finland female average weightto be 32-35 kg (70,5-77 lbs) and to males 40 kg (88 lbs), but I couldn´t find to what that information is based. I will look closer with better time.
I think this is the most precise data, since the males from South Europe are bit smaller than those from Northern Europe and their average is 40 kg.
So comparison of different subspecies should be:
1. Arabian wolf (the smallest) - average male - 20,41 kg
2. Indian wolf - average 25 to 28 kg
2. Wolves from Southern Europe - 38-40 kg
3. Northern Europe - 45 kg
4. West Canadian and Yellowstone wolves - 51 kg
I'm originally from South-East Europe (Bulgaria) when I came to Canada noticed that Canadian wolves are significantly larger, exactly their paws when I saw their traces in the snowy Rocky mountains was shocked ... huge beasts...
Also there are some differences in the coloration between European and North American wolves. While in the majority of Europe wolves are brown or brownish North American wolves are often black, grey or white, few of them are really brownish. Term "grey wolf" actually comes from America and its not very suitable for European wolves. Of course all polar wolves are white.
For example such coloration is hard to be found in Europe and is typical for Western Canada:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
While typical European wolf look like this:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Happy New Year by the way!
That 45 kg for males can be quite ok, I am not sure how accurate statistics there are. For instance Swedish site gives size range 35-55 kg and here in Finland have been bigger, I remember one shot wolf, which was told to be 65 kg and bigger have been observed as far as I know. We have that situation, that some packs come and go between Russia and Finland too. And even though we have big forests all over Finland, naturally in Russia there is so much more space for these animals.
Do you have any personal experience with wolves?
I live in area, where wolves are seen time to time. This year 2-3 times within 2-3 kilometers from my house. But there is no pack hunting in nearby forests, but time to time some wolves have been passing by, usually lonely ones. Wild animals are easy to see here and I often see those, but bears, wolves and lynxes are very difficult to spot :)
Wolves and brown bears are shy and doesn't like people around, while coyotes and black bears could be spotted much easily, I mean in Canada.
Only efficient way to spot wolf pack is by using large quantities of slaughterhouse meat and place it on the surface of frozen lake (for good visibility) during the winter. I twice participated in such an adventure in British Columbia renting a professional trapper from Yukon for 3-4 days.
The method is following. You need a big frozen lake many miles long in remote forested area. The forest ranger find a fresh wolf fingerprints, get a several hundred kilograms of smelly residual meat from slaughterhouse (because such a meat doesn't cost any money) and spread it with snowmobile on at least 5-6 places on the length of the lake on many miles from each other. Than in the next days you approach the lake with truck early morning or before darkness from the opposite side of the lake and wait when the wolves will come (if they come). One night a pack come only 80 meters away from us and was howling nearly a hour, illusive and amazing sound.
This is the location of Chilcotin mountain range, Western Canada:
(01-01-2019, 04:58 AM)epaiva Wrote: Credit to Henk Sparreboom
*This image is copyright of its original author
Didn't know therd were wolves in Mexico area!
There's the Arabian, Tibetan, Italian & Steppe/Mongolian wolves too. Good map from wiki:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Quite good, although what comes to Finland and I think to Sweden too, old information. Wolves are spread all over southern Finland nowadays from east to west. There are gaps between packs and pairs, but those can be spotted time to time anywhere in southern half of Finland.
01-01-2019, 12:05 PM( This post was last modified: 01-01-2019, 01:30 PM by Wolverine )
(01-01-2019, 05:21 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(01-01-2019, 05:04 AM)Wolverine Wrote:
(01-01-2019, 04:55 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(01-01-2019, 04:38 AM)Wolverine Wrote:
(01-01-2019, 03:41 AM)Shadow Wrote: At this point I found some sites giving to wolves in Finland female average weightto be 32-35 kg (70,5-77 lbs) and to males 40 kg (88 lbs), but I couldn´t find to what that information is based. I will look closer with better time.
I think this is the most precise data, since the males from South Europe are bit smaller than those from Northern Europe and their average is 40 kg.
So comparison of different subspecies should be:
1. Arabian wolf (the smallest) - average male - 20,41 kg
2. Indian wolf - average 25 to 28 kg
2. Wolves from Southern Europe - 38-40 kg
3. Northern Europe - 45 kg
4. West Canadian and Yellowstone wolves - 51 kg
I'm originally from South-East Europe (Bulgaria) when I came to Canada noticed that Canadian wolves are significantly larger, exactly their paws when I saw their traces in the snowy Rocky mountains was shocked ... huge beasts...
Also there are some differences in the coloration between European and North American wolves. While in the majority of Europe wolves are brown or brownish North American wolves are often black, grey or white, few of them are really brownish. Term "grey wolf" actually comes from America and its not very suitable for European wolves. Of course all polar wolves are white.
For example such coloration is hard to be found in Europe and is typical for Western Canada:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
While typical European wolf look like this:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Happy New Year by the way!
That 45 kg for males can be quite ok, I am not sure how accurate statistics there are. For instance Swedish site gives size range 35-55 kg and here in Finland have been bigger, I remember one shot wolf, which was told to be 65 kg and bigger have been observed as far as I know. We have that situation, that some packs come and go between Russia and Finland too. And even though we have big forests all over Finland, naturally in Russia there is so much more space for these animals.
Do you have any personal experience with wolves?
I live in area, where wolves are seen time to time. This year 2-3 times within 2-3 kilometers from my house. But there is no pack hunting in nearby forests, but time to time some wolves have been passing by, usually lonely ones. Wild animals are easy to see here and I often see those, but bears, wolves and lynxes are very difficult to spot :)
So Shadow this is the map of Carpenter lake where I made two wolf safaris. As you see the lake is very long - 40-45 kilometers and quite narrow. On the Northern coast is forest road (its not shown on the map). The trapper placed the meat on every 4-5 km close the opposite southern part of the lake to be further from the wolves in order to not scare them when you approach with the truck. Every pile of meat was at least 50 kilos (if pile is smaller coyotes and eagles will eat out everything before wolves come). The pack visited only one of the places on the neighbouring Dounton lake while the others were not touched.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Often wolf packs from surrounding mountains chase the deer intentionally on the frozen surface of the Carpenter lake because its slippery and wolves paws are more stable on ice surface than deer hoofs. So wolves push down the herbivores on the lake surface and hunt them down. Periodically on every 10-15 km you can see a ominous red circles of blood on the ice where wolves have killed their victims.
(01-01-2019, 06:27 AM)Rishi Wrote: Didn't know therd were wolves in Mexico area!
There's the Arabian, Tibetan, Italian & Steppe/Mongolian wolves too. Good map from wiki:
*This image is copyright of its original author
This image is valuable also because the size comparison ratios are probably correct. Accidentaly Indian wolf is shown next to the largest subspecie (or one of the largest) - Mackenzie Valley Wolf (C.l. occidentalis) from Alaska and Western Canada. Its only rival is Arctic wolf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwestern_wolf
Mackenzie Valley Wolves hunting bison in Yellowstone:
(01-01-2019, 03:41 AM)Shadow Wrote: At this point I found some sites giving to wolves in Finland female average weightto be 32-35 kg (70,5-77 lbs) and to males 40 kg (88 lbs), but I couldn´t find to what that information is based. I will look closer with better time.
I think this is the most precise data, since the males from South Europe are bit smaller than those from Northern Europe and their average is 40 kg.
So comparison of different subspecies should be:
1. Arabian wolf (the smallest) - average male - 20,41 kg
2. Indian wolf - average 25 to 28 kg
2. Wolves from Southern Europe - 38-40 kg
3. Northern Europe - 45 kg
4. West Canadian and Yellowstone wolves - 51 kg
I'm originally from South-East Europe (Bulgaria) when I came to Canada noticed that Canadian wolves are significantly larger, exactly their paws when I saw their traces in the snowy Rocky mountains was shocked ... huge beasts...
Also there are some differences in the coloration between European and North American wolves. While in the majority of Europe wolves are brown or brownish North American wolves are often black, grey or white, few of them are really brownish. Term "grey wolf" actually comes from America and its not very suitable for European wolves. Of course all polar wolves are white.
For example such coloration is hard to be found in Europe and is typical for Western Canada:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
While typical European wolf look like this:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Happy New Year by the way!
That 45 kg for males can be quite ok, I am not sure how accurate statistics there are. For instance Swedish site gives size range 35-55 kg and here in Finland have been bigger, I remember one shot wolf, which was told to be 65 kg and bigger have been observed as far as I know. We have that situation, that some packs come and go between Russia and Finland too. And even though we have big forests all over Finland, naturally in Russia there is so much more space for these animals.
Do you have any personal experience with wolves?
I live in area, where wolves are seen time to time. This year 2-3 times within 2-3 kilometers from my house. But there is no pack hunting in nearby forests, but time to time some wolves have been passing by, usually lonely ones. Wild animals are easy to see here and I often see those, but bears, wolves and lynxes are very difficult to spot :)
So Shadow this is the map of Carpenter lake where I made two wolf safaris. As you see the lake is very long - 40-45 kilometers and quite narrow. On the Northern coast is forest road (its not shown on the map). The trapper placed the meat on every 4-5 km close the opposite southern part of the lake to be further from the wolves in order to not scare them when you approach with the truck. Every pile of meat was at least 50 kilos (if pile is smaller coyotes and eagles will eat out everything before wolves come). The pack visited only one of the places on the neighbouring Dounton lake while the others were not touched.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Often wolf packs from surrounding mountains chase the deer intentionally on the frozen surface of the Carpenter lake because its slippery and wolves paws are more stable on ice surface than deer hoofs. So wolves push down the herbivores on the lake surface and hunt them down. Periodically on every 10-15 km you can see a ominous red circles of blood on the ice where wolves have killed their victims.
There are of course ways to get close to wolves to be able to see them, but that also might take time. Especially when terrain is covered, like here it often is. Forests and then fields, but wolves seem to like to move a lot inside forests here, where naturally prey animals are mostly. Moose and deer can be more often seen on fields near tree line. In Finland only up north are somewhat higher fells/hills, but nothing what could be called mountains :)
The following 1 user Likes Shadow's post:1 user Likes Shadow's post • epaiva
(01-01-2019, 03:41 AM)Shadow Wrote: At this point I found some sites giving to wolves in Finland female average weightto be 32-35 kg (70,5-77 lbs) and to males 40 kg (88 lbs), but I couldn´t find to what that information is based. I will look closer with better time.
I think this is the most precise data, since the males from South Europe are bit smaller than those from Northern Europe and their average is 40 kg.
So comparison of different subspecies should be:
1. Arabian wolf (the smallest) - average male - 20,41 kg
2. Indian wolf - average 25 to 28 kg
2. Wolves from Southern Europe - 38-40 kg
3. Northern Europe - 45 kg
4. West Canadian and Yellowstone wolves - 51 kg
I'm originally from South-East Europe (Bulgaria) when I came to Canada noticed that Canadian wolves are significantly larger, exactly their paws when I saw their traces in the snowy Rocky mountains was shocked ... huge beasts...
Also there are some differences in the coloration between European and North American wolves. While in the majority of Europe wolves are brown or brownish North American wolves are often black, grey or white, few of them are really brownish. Term "grey wolf" actually comes from America and its not very suitable for European wolves. Of course all polar wolves are white.
For example such coloration is hard to be found in Europe and is typical for Western Canada:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
While typical European wolf look like this:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Happy New Year by the way!
That 45 kg for males can be quite ok, I am not sure how accurate statistics there are. For instance Swedish site gives size range 35-55 kg and here in Finland have been bigger, I remember one shot wolf, which was told to be 65 kg and bigger have been observed as far as I know. We have that situation, that some packs come and go between Russia and Finland too. And even though we have big forests all over Finland, naturally in Russia there is so much more space for these animals.
Do you have any personal experience with wolves?
I live in area, where wolves are seen time to time. This year 2-3 times within 2-3 kilometers from my house. But there is no pack hunting in nearby forests, but time to time some wolves have been passing by, usually lonely ones. Wild animals are easy to see here and I often see those, but bears, wolves and lynxes are very difficult to spot :)
So Shadow this is the map of Carpenter lake where I made two wolf safaris. As you see the lake is very long - 40-45 kilometers and quite narrow. On the Northern coast is forest road (its not shown on the map). The trapper placed the meat on every 4-5 km close the opposite southern part of the lake to be further from the wolves in order to not scare them when you approach with the truck. Every pile of meat was at least 50 kilos (if pile is smaller coyotes and eagles will eat out everything before wolves come). The pack visited only one of the places on the neighbouring Dounton lake while the others were not touched.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Often wolf packs from surrounding mountains chase the deer intentionally on the frozen surface of the Carpenter lake because its slippery and wolves paws are more stable on ice surface than deer hoofs. So wolves push down the herbivores on the lake surface and hunt them down. Periodically on every 10-15 km you can see a ominous red circles of blood on the ice where wolves have killed their victims.
There are of course ways to get close to wolves to be able to see them, but that also might take time. Especially when terrain is covered, like here it often is. Forests and then fields, but wolves seem to like to move a lot inside forests here, where naturally prey animals are mostly. Moose and deer can be more often seen on fields near tree line. In Finland only up north are somewhat higher fells/hills, but nothing what could be called mountains :)
There is also another way - if you imitate a wolf howl during the mating season - February-March when these animals are very vocal and responding. That forest ranger tried to teach me to howl as a wolf, but its not easy since I don't have any singing talants…
Basically fore me to hear wolves is more fascinating than to see them. Its one of the most mysterious sounds in the nature, especially during the long winter nights.
(01-01-2019, 03:41 AM)Shadow Wrote: At this point I found some sites giving to wolves in Finland female average weightto be 32-35 kg (70,5-77 lbs) and to males 40 kg (88 lbs), but I couldn´t find to what that information is based. I will look closer with better time.
I think this is the most precise data, since the males from South Europe are bit smaller than those from Northern Europe and their average is 40 kg.
So comparison of different subspecies should be:
1. Arabian wolf (the smallest) - average male - 20,41 kg
2. Indian wolf - average 25 to 28 kg
2. Wolves from Southern Europe - 38-40 kg
3. Northern Europe - 45 kg
4. West Canadian and Yellowstone wolves - 51 kg
I'm originally from South-East Europe (Bulgaria) when I came to Canada noticed that Canadian wolves are significantly larger, exactly their paws when I saw their traces in the snowy Rocky mountains was shocked ... huge beasts...
Also there are some differences in the coloration between European and North American wolves. While in the majority of Europe wolves are brown or brownish North American wolves are often black, grey or white, few of them are really brownish. Term "grey wolf" actually comes from America and its not very suitable for European wolves. Of course all polar wolves are white.
For example such coloration is hard to be found in Europe and is typical for Western Canada:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
While typical European wolf look like this:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Happy New Year by the way!
That 45 kg for males can be quite ok, I am not sure how accurate statistics there are. For instance Swedish site gives size range 35-55 kg and here in Finland have been bigger, I remember one shot wolf, which was told to be 65 kg and bigger have been observed as far as I know. We have that situation, that some packs come and go between Russia and Finland too. And even though we have big forests all over Finland, naturally in Russia there is so much more space for these animals.
Do you have any personal experience with wolves?
I live in area, where wolves are seen time to time. This year 2-3 times within 2-3 kilometers from my house. But there is no pack hunting in nearby forests, but time to time some wolves have been passing by, usually lonely ones. Wild animals are easy to see here and I often see those, but bears, wolves and lynxes are very difficult to spot :)
So Shadow this is the map of Carpenter lake where I made two wolf safaris. As you see the lake is very long - 40-45 kilometers and quite narrow. On the Northern coast is forest road (its not shown on the map). The trapper placed the meat on every 4-5 km close the opposite southern part of the lake to be further from the wolves in order to not scare them when you approach with the truck. Every pile of meat was at least 50 kilos (if pile is smaller coyotes and eagles will eat out everything before wolves come). The pack visited only one of the places on the neighbouring Dounton lake while the others were not touched.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Often wolf packs from surrounding mountains chase the deer intentionally on the frozen surface of the Carpenter lake because its slippery and wolves paws are more stable on ice surface than deer hoofs. So wolves push down the herbivores on the lake surface and hunt them down. Periodically on every 10-15 km you can see a ominous red circles of blood on the ice where wolves have killed their victims.
There are of course ways to get close to wolves to be able to see them, but that also might take time. Especially when terrain is covered, like here it often is. Forests and then fields, but wolves seem to like to move a lot inside forests here, where naturally prey animals are mostly. Moose and deer can be more often seen on fields near tree line. In Finland only up north are somewhat higher fells/hills, but nothing what could be called mountains :)
There is also another way - if you imitate a wolf howl during the mating season - February-March when these animals are very vocal and responding. That forest ranger tried to teach me to howl as a wolf, but its not easy since I don't have any singing talants…
Basically fore me to hear wolves is more fascinating than to see them. Its one of the most mysterious sounds in the nature, especially during the long winter nights.
Yes, imitating animals or having good recordings of their different sounds and then playing those sounds can cause reactions :) If there is real interest and determination, these animals can be found of course. It just takes some time and patience and then knowledge about their behavior and areas they are usually. I think, that we have here site, where wolf observations are updated regularly. So it is quite easy to look at where packs and pairs or even single wolves are moving.
You can see for instance with wolves firstly wolves with gps collars. Then under that you can open map about territories in summer 2018.
Then you can see "reviirialueita" which is territorial areas. You can choose "kaikki yksilöt" which is all individuals or you can choose one or more to check individually.
Then you can look at "vaellusreitit", which shows how some wolves have been moving in Finland and also in some case in Russia.
Then there is "havainnot" and there are figures, that how many observations in some area and colour code. So darker grey is more observations.
That is quite handy tool if really interested to see wolves here :)
Wolf (Canis lupus)
