There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
Every guide I spoke with said the same thing, BMW, Ryakassi and Handsome (khusapr male) are all similar size, Tarzan was the largest tiger there, bar none. Prince is less seen but said to be similar to the other 3 mentioned.
The other tourist group I befriended were very lucky, they spotted the BMW male on 2 separate safaris and spent quite a bit of time with him up close, meters from the Gypsy. Then later in my trip we both went to Kanha after pench, again they were extremely lucky and spotted what they thought was the Rhonda male but turned out to be the Sangam Male and what they said stuck with me. They said that the BMW male is not extremely large, more of an average sized male but bulky but when compared to the Sangam male, the BMW was much smaller. They said the Sangam male was bigger in every way, he was the much more impressive Tiger. The next day after they left, I got a runoff of their luck, I then spotted the Sangam male with my friend who arranged the trip and my GF plus the guides of course. My friend who has seen Wagdoh, Matkusar, Munna, Katezari, Sangam etc. said the Sangam Male was similar size to Munna and the guides who I spoke with in Kanha all said that Munna, Bheema, Link 7, Sangam were all very close in size compared to one another, it's very hard to tell who's actually larger between them in their prime. Umarpani is much less seen, but the guides who saw him all said he was a large cat and T-1 was said to be very large as well but he's not as seen either.
Kanha V Pench females
I saw the Durga Female in pench, she is said to be the same size as Collarwali and as many here know, I saw the Link 8 female in Kanha and she was massive, she was the largest female wild Cat I have seen and the Budbudi female in Kanha is also said to be equally as large, the same guy I went to kanha with was just there again and he saw the Budbudi Female this time and he confirmed that they are similar in size. The durga female also had 3 sub adult cubs, 2 females and 1 male, the father of the Sub Adults is the Handsome male and while the Male sub adult was a good size I can guarantee he would not be the size of the Sangam Male when full grown, he just didn't have the frame to match him.
Like @Roflcopters said, in Tadoba the tigers are a bit less dense and seem to be smaller overall but the largest cat my friend had every seen was Wagdoh, he's the same height as Munna, Sangam etc. but he is longer and thicker. But the tigers in Tadoba aren't as muscular in frame, even when you look at the likes of Shivaji, Katezari, Waghdoh, Mutkasur, they seem a little softer in musculature, Gabbar seemed more dense but he wasn't the largest Tiger around.
Choti Tara and the other female I saw were both smaller than the Link 8 female by a good margin, the male I saw with her was definitely large but not nearly as dense as the Sangam male.
Bandhavgarh Tigers:
There certainly are some large males but not as many IMO, Bhim and Jobhi certainly are very large but Blue Eyes wasn't extremely large, Mr. X doesn't seem to large, Bamera's other son doesn't seem that large, Mahaman male isn't that large and others I have spoken with who have seen them say they aren't quite as large as when compared with Kanha so take it for what it's worth.
I hope that you make it to India one day and you see these parks, you will then understand why Kanha has a tendency to produce larger cats. It's massive, the prey density is higher and the weather is much more accommodating. Even in Pench which is much cooler than Tadoba and more hilly, it's still thanks to man made watering holes that Khusapar even has a Tiger population, it most likely wouldn't support any tiger population during the summer month's otherwise, the Touria gate would but I had no luck there when searching for tigers.
In closing, all parks will have large and small tigers, like all wild animals, they come in many sizes and shapes. But parks with better resources will produce larger animals more often. This is proven in Africa and India, the herbivores are larger in the Ngorongoro Crater because the resources are better and the herbivores were larger in Kanha for the same reason. This is from my personal experience and others I have spoken with, so take it for what you will.
I never said Bandhavgarh Tigers were larger then Kanha males. I know Kanha definately has the larger Tigers and so does Pench....i said i like the physiques and head shapes on the Bandhavgarh males the most. As for you're visits to these parks, have you got any footage of them?? I'd like to see some videos from you're trips and see the sightings, so if you got some, please send them to me?...
As for the cost of these trips, is it expensive, like for a weeks visit to Kanha? And whats the probability of spotting a big male Tiger there??...
Every guide I spoke with said the same thing, BMW, Ryakassi and Handsome (khusapr male) are all similar size, Tarzan was the largest tiger there, bar none. Prince is less seen but said to be similar to the other 3 mentioned.
The other tourist group I befriended were very lucky, they spotted the BMW male on 2 separate safaris and spent quite a bit of time with him up close, meters from the Gypsy. Then later in my trip we both went to Kanha after pench, again they were extremely lucky and spotted what they thought was the Rhonda male but turned out to be the Sangam Male and what they said stuck with me. They said that the BMW male is not extremely large, more of an average sized male but bulky but when compared to the Sangam male, the BMW was much smaller. They said the Sangam male was bigger in every way, he was the much more impressive Tiger. The next day after they left, I got a runoff of their luck, I then spotted the Sangam male with my friend who arranged the trip and my GF plus the guides of course. My friend who has seen Wagdoh, Matkusar, Munna, Katezari, Sangam etc. said the Sangam Male was similar size to Munna and the guides who I spoke with in Kanha all said that Munna, Bheema, Link 7, Sangam were all very close in size compared to one another, it's very hard to tell who's actually larger between them in their prime. Umarpani is much less seen, but the guides who saw him all said he was a large cat and T-1 was said to be very large as well but he's not as seen either.
Kanha V Pench females
I saw the Durga Female in pench, she is said to be the same size as Collarwali and as many here know, I saw the Link 8 female in Kanha and she was massive, she was the largest female wild Cat I have seen and the Budbudi female in Kanha is also said to be equally as large, the same guy I went to kanha with was just there again and he saw the Budbudi Female this time and he confirmed that they are similar in size. The durga female also had 3 sub adult cubs, 2 females and 1 male, the father of the Sub Adults is the Handsome male and while the Male sub adult was a good size I can guarantee he would not be the size of the Sangam Male when full grown, he just didn't have the frame to match him.
Like @Roflcopters said, in Tadoba the tigers are a bit less dense and seem to be smaller overall but the largest cat my friend had every seen was Wagdoh, he's the same height as Munna, Sangam etc. but he is longer and thicker. But the tigers in Tadoba aren't as muscular in frame, even when you look at the likes of Shivaji, Katezari, Waghdoh, Mutkasur, they seem a little softer in musculature, Gabbar seemed more dense but he wasn't the largest Tiger around.
Choti Tara and the other female I saw were both smaller than the Link 8 female by a good margin, the male I saw with her was definitely large but not nearly as dense as the Sangam male.
Bandhavgarh Tigers:
There certainly are some large males but not as many IMO, Bhim and Jobhi certainly are very large but Blue Eyes wasn't extremely large, Mr. X doesn't seem to large, Bamera's other son doesn't seem that large, Mahaman male isn't that large and others I have spoken with who have seen them say they aren't quite as large as when compared with Kanha so take it for what it's worth.
I hope that you make it to India one day and you see these parks, you will then understand why Kanha has a tendency to produce larger cats. It's massive, the prey density is higher and the weather is much more accommodating. Even in Pench which is much cooler than Tadoba and more hilly, it's still thanks to man made watering holes that Khusapar even has a Tiger population, it most likely wouldn't support any tiger population during the summer month's otherwise, the Touria gate would but I had no luck there when searching for tigers.
In closing, all parks will have large and small tigers, like all wild animals, they come in many sizes and shapes. But parks with better resources will produce larger animals more often. This is proven in Africa and India, the herbivores are larger in the Ngorongoro Crater because the resources are better and the herbivores were larger in Kanha for the same reason. This is from my personal experience and others I have spoken with, so take it for what you will.
I never said Bandhavgarh Tigers were larger then Kanha males. I know Kanha definately has the larger Tigers and so does Pench....i said i like the physiques and head shapes on the Bandhavgarh males the most. As for you're visits to these parks, have you got any footage of them?? I'd like to see some videos from you're trips and see the sightings, so if you got some, please send them to me?...
As for the cost of these trips, is it expensive, like for a weeks visit to Kanha? And whats the probability of spotting a big male Tiger there??...
Here are my photo's from my trips to India a long with a couple of videos as well
In regards to cost, it will depend on what you're looking to do, duration and amount of parks you want to see. India isn't a relatively expense place and the flights are very cheap compared to Africa. If you're actually interested in doing it and like to get an itemized quote, I'd be happy to put you in contact with my guy.
In regards to spotting a big male, there is no guarantee. Tigers are much more secretive than lions and the Indian forests don't reveal their secrets easily, you need a mixture of Good guides, keen ears and lots of luck. But if you're smart about the parks you go to, the odds of seeing a tiger are high, the odds of seeing a specific tiger are not as high. It was my 2nd to last safari in Kanha after visiting Tadoba and Pench before I finally got to see a big male and it just so happened to be a Male not seen often, so go figure.
03-22-2018, 01:36 PM( This post was last modified: 04-23-2018, 02:07 PM by Rishi )
(03-22-2018, 01:48 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(03-22-2018, 01:35 AM)@brotherbear Wrote: Pckts says: I just spoke with someone who works for a Tiger Reserve
His Responses below: "The largest Tigers he's weighed are 345kgs and 13.3 feet and he also said he has one that weighed almost 400kg " 345 kg = 760.59 pounds. 400 kg = 881.85 pounds. I am interested in seeing where this leads.
It can't really lead far until the person decides to publish the weights, but like with many other weights we can only take their word for it.
I have provided evidence to the ones that have asked and I'm sure they would agree its a very large cat and the source is reliable but outside of that, we can only go off of speculation.
*This image is copyright of its original author
If tigress Julie in the image from Panna could be considered 180kg for the sake of argument (she's probably not), for a male that easily looks 1.5 times the size of Madla in comparison, 300kg++ is not an improbable weight.
That reminds me, several of the super-tigers ever recorded should have an minimum empty weight at about 350kg...
(04-02-2018, 02:30 PM)Apollo Wrote: Nice info bro.
How Bajrang stack up in size compared to males like waghdoh, Narasimha, Katezari and Khali ??
According to my buddy, Katezari is the similar size to Matkasur and Waghdoh was larger than both, but I'll let shaileshsharadnaik give us more info on that.
Hello Friends.
I have seen katezari, waghdoh, Bajrang, Matkasur.
Frommy perspective; Katezari and Bajrang are of same size. Waghdoh may be similar in size but was bulkier because of his age. Matkasur is certainly smaller than all these.
Wait a minute...
I thought, incorrectly apparently, that Matkasur is really large.
He does look so. But several people have confirmed that he's nothing special!
Are you now saying that Wagdoh isn't much larger but "maybe similar in size but bulkier" than the rest of Tadoba resident males?
I have stopped forming any ideas from photos after seeing this...
*This image is copyright of its original author
& then came to know that his weight was confirmed to be 220kg (adjusted).
So, i'd like another word on Wagdoh...
The following 1 user Likes Rishi's post:1 user Likes Rishi's post • Sanju
I've been wondering. Is there a possibility that some of the northern bengal tigers have Caspian tigers' DNA?
Have they done genetic testing on all of the larger sized specimens of the Northern Bengal tigers? The ones that said to be the biggest of all bengals?
When I look at the tigers in this video, the first question that popped in my mind is whether or not those huge bengals might be have some caspian tiger DNA.
10-06-2018, 01:58 PM( This post was last modified: 10-06-2018, 02:04 PM by Rishi )
(10-06-2018, 01:07 PM)AllenZhu88 Wrote: I've been wondering. Is there a possibility that some of the northern bengal tigers have Caspian tigers' DNA?
Have they done genetic testing on all of the larger sized specimens of the Northern Bengal tigers? The ones that said to be the biggest of all bengals?
When I look at the tigers in this video, the first question that popped in my mind is whether or not those huge bengals might be have some caspian tiger DNA.
Actually it was pretty well established that Caspian tigers were merely a western metapopulation of the Siberian tigers, that reached the place through the silk-route & Altai mountains.
The all India genome sequencing established that Bengal tiger are quite a bit different from Siberian tigers, look in the Tiger Extinction thread. They came into Indian subcontinent from the east, but never actually made it northwest of Indo-Gangetic basin due to the unsuitable arid natural vegetation...& lions maybe.
I was able to get a response from Someone who has actually seen Kaziranga and Dudhwa Tigers in person as to which are larger and this is what they said.
Nirmalya ChakrabortyI have seen Kaziranga tigers are larger. They feed on wild buffaloes and grow huge and bulky.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Very interesting, hopefully we can get more people's input on this at some point.
07-22-2020, 02:37 AM( This post was last modified: 07-22-2020, 03:02 AM by Ashutosh )
Two issues need to be cleared up first. When talking about “bigger” tiger, are we talking about in average or exceptional specimens.
Secondly, casual wildlife enthusiasts who have seen wildlife in both landscapes can only go on the handful of tigers they see, so it may not be an accurate reflection of the entire park base. But, hypothetically, if Rabin Sharma of Kaziranga was to go to Dudhwa for a year and study the tigers there, his word on their size difference would carry far more weightage. Afterall, he has probably seen most of the tigers in Kaziranga and he can generalise their average size and identify the biggest specimen much easily and more accurately than most people (even naturalists).
I mean, even with all the tourists going into these parks, we have photographic records of maybe 35% of individuals living in landscapes such as Kaziranga (and that is being generous), it would be higher for other reserves. Tourists go weeks without a tiger sighting in Kaziranga (there is a board at the park gate which tells you the number of days since the last tiger sighting, even in peak tourist season it can reach a couple of weeks).
Other than that, you do what we do. Compare camera traps and images from different sources with different lighting, distance, angle and make educated speculations (of course without being delusional and hyperbolic).
(07-22-2020, 02:37 AM)Ashutosh Wrote: Two issues need to be cleared up first. When talking about “bigger” tiger, are we talking about in average or exceptional specimens.
Secondly, casual wildlife enthusiasts who have seen wildlife in both landscapes can only go on the handful of tigers they see, so it may not be an accurate reflection of the entire park base. But, hypothetically, if Rabin Sharma of Kaziranga was to go to Dudhwa for a year and study the tigers there, his word on their size difference would carry far more weightage. Afterall, he has probably seen most of the tigers in Kaziranga and he can generalise their average size and identify the biggest specimen much easily and more accurately than most people (even naturalists).
I mean, even with all the tourists going into these parks, we have photographic records of maybe 35% of individuals living in landscapes such as Kaziranga (and that is being generous), it would be higher for other reserves. Tourists go weeks without a tiger sighting in Kaziranga (there is a board at the park gate which tells you the number of days since the last tiger sighting, even in peak tourist season it can reach a couple of weeks).
Other than that, you do what we do. Compare camera traps and images from different sources with different lighting, distance, angle and make educated speculations (of course without being delusional).
I agree for the most part although if you view Nirmalya Chakraborty's fb profile you can see that he's actually been lucky enough to view quite a few Dudhwa males over the years.
He's also viewed Tigers from all over India *North to South*
I'd say he's probably one of the most experienced wildlife photographers I've viewed on FB.
Here's one of his Kaziranga Males he's seen. *his photo*
I wrote about this before. There is no such as biggest Bengal tiger location. Tigers in north, central, and south India seems similar size besides biggest one and average size. People are often saying northern Bengal is the biggest cat ever, but they are only few cm and small kg difference than tigers in south India.
Just one correction, maybe a little late as this image is all over the web.
This is not a picture of Madla male, this is a Nepalese tiger captured between 1972 - 1980. The original picture is in a book from 1990 that I found in Archive.org. So no, this is not Madla, and no, I don't know what male is this, if is Sauraha or Dakre.
Where is the biggest bengal tigers?
