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Wanhsien tiger ~

India brotherbear Offline
Grizzly Enthusiast
#61

These Wanhsien tigers lived in China where the original brown bear lived which I refer to as the Chinese grizzly as I have yet to find any name attached to it. In fact, no information at all. Any idea the size of these bears that shared the land with the Wanhsien tiger?
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Canada GrizzlyClaws Offline
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#62

(09-10-2018, 10:36 AM)Wolverine Wrote:
(09-09-2018, 10:44 AM)GuateGojira Wrote: To be honest, I think that even at double of the weight (260 kg againts 500 kg), tigers are a treath to any giant primate. If not, check some cases of leopards of 50-60 kg hunting an killing gorillas of 130 - 140 kg, which is the weight of a young male gorilla, a "black back".

This is really fascinating question. Here we have to take into account that hominids don't posses deadly sharp claws (as the big cats), but in same time beside their gigantic physical power they have also huge canine teeth and very powerful bite. Canine teeth of gorilla are 5 cm long, same size as the lion's. The canines of the primates are created not so much to cut pieces of meat as the cats, but to make deep painful wounds in order to change the mind of the predator. Bite force of gorilla is one of the strongest in the animal kingdom:
http://thechive.com/2015/09/17/the-stron...25-photos/


*This image is copyright of its original author


Orangutan:

*This image is copyright of its original author


Probably few predators like to connect with the primates, they are bad tempered, evilish creatures. And also of course hominids are much smarter than big cats.


I was also inclined to think that big cat can kill a primate up to 2 times larger then itself. But see, if this ratio is right and if giganto weighted only 300 kg (650 pounds) it can not survive and exist in the nature among tigers... But we know for certainty that gigantopitechus existed  Lol . So obviously the first version you mentioned - it weighted up to 600 kg (1300 pounds) or more is the only possible. And actually if I'm not wrong this version is latest (from 1990) while the version that it weighted only 300 kg is earlier (from 1970) so normally the latest scientific versions are more updated. 
Despite some historical tigers had probably the largest size and linear dimentions among all cats I personally doubt that any historical tiger subspecie had a max weight more than 400 kg. Only smilodon populator and some northern cave lions probably were weighting more than 400 kg due to their more robust body structure, but this is another question.

The canine teeth of the primate are not deeply rooted like that of the carnivora, so the fatality caused by the primate canine teeth cannot be compared those of the big cats.

BTW, most fossils we came cross from the Pleistocene tigers were robust built in frame.
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Canada GrizzlyClaws Offline
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#63

(10-15-2018, 06:10 PM)brotherbear Wrote: These Wanhsien tigers lived in China where the original brown bear lived which I refer to as the Chinese grizzly as I have yet to find any name attached to it. In fact, no information at all. Any idea the size of these bears that shared the land with the Wanhsien tiger?

Not much description about the fossils of these original grizzlies.

I assume they were comparable to the modern grizzlies, and at some of period of time, more likely 300 kya, when they migrated to Europe, they suddenly magnified their size to the level of the Cave bear.
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Canada Wolverine Away
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#64

(10-15-2018, 11:40 PM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote: The canine teeth of the primate are not deeply rooted like that of the carnivora, so the fatality caused by the primate canine teeth cannot be compared those of the big cats.

Yes, the canine teeth of primates even rival in size the canines of many big cats are actually created to inflict painful wounds in order to change the mind of the attacking predator, not to kill it. Actually such vegetarian apes as gorilla and orangutan probably don't know how to kill a big cat and they don't need to know. Omnivorous primates as chimpanzee and baboon who sometimes hunt however know how to make deadly bites. Giganto as vegeterian probably behaved as gorilla or orangutan. Nevertheless the big vegeterian apes including giganto have a formidable canines, gigantic bite force typical for all bamboo eating animals (jaw mussles responsible to grind bamboo are always very well developed) and exteemly high intelligence so for sure they are formidable adversaries for the big cats. Otherwise they would not survived among predators for millions of years.
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India brotherbear Offline
Grizzly Enthusiast
#65

http://www.newhistorian.com/tiger-huntin...lves/4376/  
  
TIGER HUNTING STRATEGY AS OLD AS TIGERS THEMSELVES
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Indonesia P.T.Sondaica Offline
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#66

Ngandong Tiger not eat alpha male gigantopithecus?
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GuateGojira Offline
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#67
( This post was last modified: 12-10-2019, 02:06 AM by GuateGojira )

(10-09-2019, 03:10 PM)P.T.Sondaica Wrote: Ngandong Tiger not eat alpha male gigantopithecus?

Gigantophitecus blacki  lived in mainland Asia, Ngandong tiger in the Sunda region, so no.

Now, take in count that the new estimations of weight from the Gigantophitecus put it at about 300 kg, so the Ngandong tiger with over 360 kg will be heavier than the ape.

For details on the size of the big ape, check this topic, post No. 15: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-prehistoric-apes

Check this new ilustration from Luis Guardiola, big ape but with more slender body frame:

*This image is copyright of its original author
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Canada GrizzlyClaws Offline
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#68

The most recent study showed that the Wanhsien fauna could be dated as early as from the middle early Pleistocene to the early middle Pleistocene.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11434-013-5839-6


This means the classic Wanhsien tiger in the old literature was probably over a million years old, and it represented an early offshoot of the tiger species, but the modern tigers probably did not directly evolve from them.
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Indonesia P.T.Sondaica Offline
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#69

@QuateGojira Nope gigantopithecus live in Java to
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GuateGojira Offline
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#70

(12-11-2019, 05:49 PM)P.T.Sondaica Wrote: @QuateGojira Nope gigantopithecus live in Java to

Can you show me the evidence of Gigantopitecus in Java?
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Indonesia P.T.Sondaica Offline
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#71

@GuateGojira 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication...ROM_SEMEDO

Write that
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GuateGojira Offline
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#72
( This post was last modified: 03-09-2020, 09:18 PM by GuateGojira )

(03-09-2020, 02:21 PM)P.T.Sondaica Wrote: @GuateGojira 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication...ROM_SEMEDO

Write that

Wow, very interesting. As far I know the large primate in Java was the Megantropus (a type of large Australopithecus), I will read the document for more information.

Thank you for sharing. Like

Edit: I allready checked the document, and although it is not in English, the summary provide the conclution and the graphics show that the new specimens are closer to the Gigantopithecus than to the other primates. Only in the graphic 6 is that one of the new specimens match with Australopithecus, but all the others shows a clear affinity with Gigantopithecus.

It is possible to you to tell me in what period are dated those fossils? I tried to search it in the document but I can't found it. This is in order to know if this primate shared its habitat with Panthera tigris trinilensis or Panthera tigris soloensis, or maybe the modern Panthera tigris sondaica.
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Canada GrizzlyClaws Offline
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#73

(03-09-2020, 09:05 PM)GuateGojira Wrote:
(03-09-2020, 02:21 PM)P.T.Sondaica Wrote: @GuateGojira 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication...ROM_SEMEDO

Write that

Wow, very interesting. As far I know the large primate in Java was the Megantropus (a type of large Australopithecus), I will read the document for more information.

Thank you for sharing. Like

Edit: I allready checked the document, and although it is not in English, the summary provide the conclution and the graphics show that the new specimens are closer to the Gigantopithecus than to the other primates. Only in the graphic 6 is that one of the new specimens match with Australopithecus, but all the others shows a clear affinity with Gigantopithecus.

It is possible to you to tell me in what period are dated those fossils? I tried to search it in the document but I can't found it. This is in order to know if this primate shared its habitat with Panthera tigris trinilensis or Panthera tigris soloensis, or maybe the modern Panthera tigris sondaica.



The Wanhsien tiger could live much earlier than we previously thought; from middle Early-Pleistocene to early Middle-Pleistocene.

https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/81220308.pdf

The skull also looked too fossilized to be something from the Late-Pleistocene.
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