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Tigers of Ranthambore & Western India Landscape

United States Pckts Offline
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Kunwar Shantanu Singh
Jai & Veeru
Most amazing brothers of RTR


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I'm not a big fan of them using the same names as the famous Jai and Veeru from Nagzira.




Soumya Majumder
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Kumbha , Big male from RTR , Oct 18
 


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"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
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(12-04-2018, 10:41 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(12-04-2018, 06:26 PM)Rishi Wrote:
(11-16-2018, 11:33 PM)Rage2277 Wrote: ...btw isn't sultan a dominant male in kailidevi sanctuary he has cubs with a tigress there

Movements of Tiger Sultan and his mate in vicinity of Needar dam, locals panicked
Tigress Sundari and Tiger Sultan are frequenting the area Northeast of Kailadevi Sanctuary for nearly two years. 

2nd Dec 2018, Dainik Bhaskar

Camera-trap photo of Sultan from last year
*This image is copyright of its original author

About six months ago, the female gave birth to two cubs. Now those cubs have grown too. Both of these tigers and tigress tend to roam in the area, with their cubs. Buffaloes, bulls, sheep and goats have been hunted many times on by them.

For the past three months, their pugmarks have been found quite a few times near the Jhareela village. Ruralfolk and farmers are frightened after the tiger along with the tigress was seen in front of Chandrapal Singh's house in the village on Friday night.

Because of the movement of tigers in the field, now farmers are finding it difficult to take care of & protect their crops, causing economic loss to them.
On being informed of the arrival of the tigers in Jhreela village, the forest department employees arrived on the spot, started teaching & monitoring the animals.

The villagers said that the tiger comes to the village every now and then. That's why, after sunset, nobody cares get out of their homes. Forest department workers say that they are constantly engaged in keeping an eye on the tiger pair. The movement of these tigers is spread from the area around the Needar Dam to the other side of valley of Jakhoda town.

It's nice to know that Sultan is alive and doing well, he was always one of my favorite Ranthambore males but never was very comfortable around the crazy crowds.
Old video of him as a sub adult 





Well jesus christ....of course he missed his prey. He's literally surrounded by people and jeeps. This whole scene really pisses me off. Angry Dislike
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"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
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( This post was last modified: 12-10-2018, 10:09 PM by Rishi )

Tiger ST-4 dies of injuries in Sariska, third tiger this year
December 10, 2018

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The Sariska Tiger Reserve (STR) in Rajasthan’s Alwar district lost a tiger on Sunday morning, 26 days after it was injured in a territorial fight with another big cat, forest officials said. The tiger was cremated after a team of doctors conducted the post-mortem.

With this loss, the number of tigers in Sariska has come down to 16. “Tiger ST-4, which was put in an enclosure in Kali Ghati forest range after it got injured, died on Sunday morning,” said STR chief conservator of forests Govind Sagar Bhardwaj.
Dr Dinkar Sharma, head of the board of doctors, said prima facie the cause of death is traumatic shock. “We’ve collected the samples and will send it to Bareilly for testing,” he said. Sharma added that the tiger had not eaten anything in the past few days.

14-year-old ST-4 is the third tiger to have died in Sariska this year. ST-4 got in a clash with ST-6 who is around 12-years-old. On the night of November 13 they had clashed with each other and ST-4 was wounded on the left leg and elsewhere on the body.
The wounded big cat was treated by veterinarian Dr Arvind Mathur since November 14. He was found dead in Sunday.

Tiger ST-4 was relocated from Ranthambore in 2010 and ST-6 was brought from there the following year. Both had a history of fighting over territory.

From back when ST-4 was a gorgeous prime male.



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India Rishi Offline
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( This post was last modified: 12-11-2018, 08:46 AM by Rishi )

(11-29-2018, 09:10 AM)Rishi Wrote: The debate over shifting two tigers to the Mukandra Hills, judgement soon

Dainik Bhaskar
Nov 28, 2018, 03:50 PM

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JAIPUR | Hearing & debate on the matter of shifting of two female tigers from Ranthambore Tiger Reserve to the Mukandra Hills Tiger Reserve, including arguments of the petitioner, the central and state governments, were concluded in the Rajasthan High Court were on Tuesday.

A division bench of Judge Mohammad Rafiq and Govardhan Bardar gave this interim directive to the petitioner of Ajay Shankar Dubey on the state government's request letter. 
During this, the central government started that NTCA has approved the state government to shift the two tigresses to the Mukandra Hills. The State Government also pleaded that after the NTCA's approval, the petition be dismissed by lifting the ban on shifting the tigers. On behalf of the petitioner, he said that the NTCA approval should have been taken first. 

After all the parties were heard, the court has decided to pass a final judgement after further contemplation the matter.

The applicant had filed a PIL challengeing the shifting of tiger T-91 from Ramgarh-Vishdhari Wildlife Sanctuary to Mukandra Hills Tiger Reserve without prior approval of NTCA, that too in a different zone, from the one chosen for its release. 
During the hearing on the petition, the court had put on hold translocation of any tigers to Mukandra Hills Tiger Reserve until further notice.

Court dismisses Ajay Dubey's petition & clears shifting of female tigers to MHTR

The forest department of Rajasthan can now relocate tigresses to the Mukundra Tiger Hills Reserve (MHTG) after the Rajasthan High Court dismissed a petition challenging the translocation of the male tiger T-91 aka MT-1.
The decision by the divisional bench of the court comes as a major relief for the state government, which was defending itself on not fulfilling all conditions while shifting the male tiger.

The tiger reached Ramgarh-Vishdhari Sanctuary on its own, from where he was captured & relocated due to that forest having low preybase & high human interference at present. Another tiger T-62 reached the place but had returned back to Ranthambore last month.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Also, T-91 was also released in Darah Zone as all villages weren't yet shifted out of Seljar as originally agreed upon, resulting in NTCA withdrawing the permission to continue the translocation. 
Although State govt. cleared the issue with NTCA gave the green light again, the court ordered the project be in hold until the petition is heard, that was filed by wildlife activist Ajay Dubey alleged violation of wildlife norms by the Rajasthan government in translocating the tiger and sought that the tiger be recaptured & moved back to its original habitat (!!!!!!).

Thankfully, the court observed that the NTCA is a capable body which can decide on the relocation of the tigers & that the male tiger is roaming the sanctuary alone and in stress. As the government was already sanctioned permission by the NTCA earlier, in such circumstances, court’s intervention is not warranted.

It was argued in the court that the chief wildlife warden is competent authority to take decision to shift the tiger as per section 11 of wildlife protection act 1972.
"Everything not saved will be lost."

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Rage2277 Offline
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bout time..man i hope they get tigresses from anywhere but ranthambore
"ssshhh...listen to the rain"...
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After having just seen T86 feeding on a cow , we get this amazing sighting of Noor’s daughter. Saw fresh Pugmark’s & heard a few monkey alarm calls to finally witness this. Tiger Trails By Anthony
"ssshhh...listen to the rain"...
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India Rishi Offline
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( This post was last modified: 12-19-2018, 01:12 PM by Rishi )

(12-11-2018, 09:13 AM)Rage2277 Wrote: bout time..man i hope they get tigresses from anywhere but ranthambore

From Dharmendra Khandal's FB post.
Ranthambore TR Field Director Y.K.Sahu collaring T-106.

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Couldn't find who her father is, but she is the daughter of T-39 Noor, whose mother T-13 (Fateh's mate) was granddaughter of Original Machhli) & T-12 Guda Male, now in Sariska, the son of tigress T-15 from Machhli's litter.

On the other hand, T-91 Mirza aka MT-1 is the son of T-30 Husn Ara (background unknown, Fateh's mother)
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...& Bahadur, son of T-16 Machhli.

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So, the new Mukundara female MT-2 is related to original Machhli from both mother's & father's side, while the make MT-1 is related to her from father's side atleast.
There may be other common ancestors along their parental tree bloodlines...

@Apollo @Roflcopters @Wolverine @SuSpicious

PS: Most photos & info are from www.ranthambhoreguides.com/tigers.
"Everything not saved will be lost."

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( This post was last modified: 12-19-2018, 02:10 PM by Rage2277 )

noor's last litter was sired by t57 aurangzeb..safe to say all the tigers in ranthambore are related..though despite little to no genetic diversity they look healthy and are quite impressive in general @Rishi
"ssshhh...listen to the rain"...
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( This post was last modified: 12-19-2018, 04:41 PM by Rishi )

(12-17-2018, 11:12 PM)peter Wrote:
(12-17-2018, 12:52 PM)Apollo Wrote: Khumba male






mating pair from Ranthambore






I asked Apollo to post the video of the Jilin tiger (post 1,973) and both videos in which Ranthambore tiger feature (post 1,974) in this thread, because they're special.

Jilin tigers are Amur tigers, but there is no contact between tigers in Sichote-Alin and those of northeastern China. Chances are they could develop in a different way, that is. The largest Amur tigers were shot in Manchuria. A century later, I wonder if we will see something similar in the near future. Northeastern China roughly compares to Sichote-Alin, but the photographs I saw suggest the vegetation could be a bit more lush. More cover, that is. Tigers in the southwestern part of Sichote-Alin (and those in northeastern China) hunt bears more often than elsewhere. A result of more cover or a result of a lack of large prey animals (in northeastern China, tigers attack domesticated animals at times)? Quite a few tigers in southwestern Sichote-Alin and northeastern China are recent migrants. Maybe they lack knowledge in the wild boar department?  

Ranthambore tigers belong to Panthera tigris tigris, but they seem different from tigers in northern, southern, central and northeastern India. Less stripes, shorter stripes and more black. A bit longer and taller and seemingly not as massive as in other regions in India. Even the infamous man-eater who was arrested and jailed some time ago, although well over 500 pounds in his prime, was different from the tanks occasionally seen in central and northeastern India. This although measurements suggest they could top the list for India.

In a way, they remind me of Kalahari lions. These lions could top the list for Africa, but also seem less massive than in southern Africa and the Crater.

Could be a result of adaptation to more arid conditions. Preyanimalwise, semi-deserts are less productive than lush forests, safari-like landscapes and hills in more tropical regions. In spite of that, Ranthambore tigers and Kalahari lions seem a bit longer and taller than tigers and lions living in more productive regions. 

Many thanks, Apollo.
(12-18-2018, 12:10 AM)Pckts. Wrote: I also have my doubts about that, I see no reason for them to be Taller or Longer than any other Tiger, there is no benefit there and the prey they hunt is no different than Tigers else where, in fact, the prey there is small to mid size but missing the large bovines, Rhino or Elephant that should require more size. 

Genetically, they are more comparable to Ngorongoro Crater lions than Kalahari lions. Less genetic diversity but larger & little to no inbreeding related issues.  

Actually the two strongest plausible reasons for them having disinct physical appearancepearance, are prey availablity & genetic isolation, or most likely both working together.

In absence of larger prey animals like gaurs or water-buffaloes, the "chaser" get a clear survival advantage over the "wrestler"... physique wise. The longer & taller tigers do have an edge while surviving mainly on animals like deers or pigs.
Another similar example i'll give is Corbett where too tall, long & athletic tigers are very common.

Also unlike Panna or Corbett, this region's tiger population have become completely isolated from rest (already was, due to sparsely vegetated dry hills between them & other central Indian tigers, but main reason explained below), meaning repeatation of same genes while it's traits become more & more prominent every generation.

(12-19-2018, 11:12 AM)GuateGojira Wrote: 2. Valmik Thapar found that the tigers from Ranhambore are not "native" from the area, but were introduced by the Maharajas from the Gwalior region, which is very close to the Terai...

No! Gwalior is just on the other side of Ranthambore in MP. The city is north of Kuno-Palpur & princely state was the northern half of today's Madhya Pradesh. It's southeast of Ranthambore's actually...

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Back in the hunting era it was the Gwalior reign that was famous for her tigers & a popular hunting destination, while Ranthambore was a tiny fragmented outer fringe of the Western India Tiger Landscape. 
You may know, that until it got declared a Tiger Reserve & Fateh Singh Rathore took charge of the relocation, all its prime tiger areas of today, like Rajbag lake etc. were settled & cultivated. There were barely a dozen tigers...

A book (i can't recall which) stated that Kailadevi actually had lions once due to its being mostly scrub & thorn forests.

That's like the primary reason i'm not comfortable with the whole lion relocation to Kuno & this...
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( This post was last modified: 12-19-2018, 03:10 PM by Pckts )

I agree about the genetic bottle necking and the same characteristics seen in most tigers in Ranth, I dont agree that a taller or longer tiger would be advantageous for hunting smaller prey. The prey available in Ranth. Is available in all other reserves as well so I dont think there would be a morphological change in Tigers in Ranth. But no where else.
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( This post was last modified: 12-19-2018, 05:06 PM by Rishi )

(12-19-2018, 03:06 PM)Pckts Wrote: I dont agree that a taller or longer tiger would be advantageous for hunting smaller prey. The prey available in Ranth. Is available in all other reserves as well so I dont think there would be a morphological change in Tigers in Ranth. But no where else.

No no. Not smaller prey, faster & weaker... A taller & longer & slimmer tiger is a better sprinter.

Unlike Tadoba or Terai or the Ghats, where the main source of food are sambar & gaurs, especially for males, here it's mainly cheetals & pigs. It's similar in Corbett too & tall, slender tigers are commonly seen there as well...
On top of that, just outside Ranthambore & Mukundara CTR the vegetation quickly changes from dry-deciduous to thickets & thorn forest (see the new map in previous post) making it even harder to ambush hunt.

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In Kanha or Chitwan, a big strong male who can wrestle down gaurs & buffalos will find the bulk to be an edge, with no drawbacks, as food is always plenty.
Here, he won't really have much use for it, but it may hold him back in the survival race when life gets tough.

Muscle mass is costly...biologically. And this area is India's most drought prone zone. If it doesn't rain for 5 years straight, the muscular hunk could be having a hard time to avoid death by starvation & may get replaced by a lanky male he drove out earlier.

Plus, that's just a gross generalisation. As we know both Corbett as well as the greener & cattle grazed areas of Ranth had plenty of stout & stocky specimens.

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T-34 Kumbha is just a slim individual, always was.
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( This post was last modified: 12-19-2018, 10:22 PM by Pckts )

Tadoba and pench have high populations of boar, chital and sambar, all are high up on the predatory importance. Even big males hunt these species, not as common as females for obvious reasons but they still hunt them and thus have no difficulty doing so. But the fact that they also have larger prey means that you see even larger cats though, but you don't see this difference in the females for some reason.
Maya in Tadoba is a small tigress yet she's actually hunted Gaur successfully and arrowhead in Ranth. Is a small tigress and yet she's hunted Sambar successfully as well.

  Regarding cattle grazing, Khumba is a notorious cattle taker as well as many ranth. Tigers but for whatever reason he doesn't have that stocky look. But I'm with you that some can have a stocky look, just not many there. T57 comes to mind for me but that's my point, when they look stocky their height doesn't jump put at you due to their large body, Their limbs look short when the large body is closer to the floor.

In regards to Corbett and Ranthambore, my understanding is that they are two very different places with many things unique to the area, especially Corbett. But that being said, most of the Tigers I've seen in Corbett don't impress me with their size but I've heard other opinions saying they have some of the largest tigers. That being said, I've also heard that they are normal sized as well but going off the eye test alone, I've never been overly impressed by many of seen there tbh. But Tiger spotting in Corbett is a completely different animal from Ranthambore.
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I just spoke with someone else about this, his opinion shocked me a bit but he certainly knows his stuff.


When I asked how Tigers in Ranthambhore compare to Tigers in other parts of India he's seen, he said 

"I saw 2 males there, seemed big definitely
But a couple of them I saw in Bandhavgarh too were quite big, Equal to Ranthambore.
Ranthambore females are a bit bigger than Tadoba  or Pench.
But again, depends from Tiger to Tiger."

That honestly surprised me, to me Bandhavgarh males seem much larger but Ranthambore must have some large males to compare to them so that changed my mind a bit.


That being said, I respect his opinion quite a bit so if he says they are similar sized to Bandhavgarh then I'll take his word for it.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
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India Rishi Offline
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( This post was last modified: 12-20-2018, 08:28 AM by Rishi )

IMO of all (known) central Indian tigers, Mamu of Bandhavgarh looks most similar to the western ones.
You could mistake him for one...




©Ravi Bandhavgarh
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