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Tigers from Borneo, Palawan, Japan ...

United Arab Emirates BorneanTiger Offline
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( This post was last modified: 09-08-2019, 09:44 PM by BorneanTiger )

The Bornean tiger

Though I did post this before (https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-on-the-...s?page=114https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-on-the-...s?page=147), I am not the only one to point out this mystery of whether or not the Bornean tiger (which is known to have existed in prehistoric times like others tigers, such as the Palawan tiger from what is now the Philippines: https://books.google.com/books?id=XFIbjB...er&f=falsehttps://books.google.com/books?id=66mRJS...sc=y&hl=en) survived into modern or recent times, with someone else having given photos or information about it. I also want this thread to be about other prehistoric or ancient tigers in places where we wouldn't see them today, such as Palawan, Japan, and what used to be the Beringian landmass that connected what is now the Russian Far East with what is now Alaska in North America, and I'm not sure about Sri Lanka.

As for the mysterious Bornean tiger or Borneo tiger, to start with, 3 subspecies of tigers were traditionally were recognised for the Sunda Islands of Southeast Asia (https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-on-the-...s?page=140), the Sumatran tiger (Panthera tigris sumatræ), the Balinese tiger (Panthera tigris balica), and the Javan tiger (Panthera tigris sondaica). Of these, only the Sumatran tiger is known to survive (https://web.archive.org/web/201203091255...1-0001.pdf). However, according to people in the Sunda island Borneo, there was another tiger that at least used to inhabit their island as recently as the 20th century (https://news.mongabay.com/2016/11/was-bo...of-tigers/, https://scholarspace.manoa.hawaii.edu/bi...-51-69.pdf, https://books.google.com/books?id=XFIbjB...er&f=false).

Firstly, here's a look at Borneo. Borneo is rather close to Java and Sumatra, credit: http://mjhuize.blogspot.com/2014/04/expe...sland.html 

*This image is copyright of its original author


Borneo has a tropical climate similar to those of other Sunda islands, and has almost the same fauna as Sumatra (https://news.mongabay.com/2016/11/was-bo...of-tigers/). Amongst the fauna found here are potential prey of the tiger, such as the bearded pig and muntjac deer (https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Eri...stence.pdf): 

Bornean yellow muntjac, credit: http://satwakalimantan.blogspot.com/2015...tjacs.html 

*This image is copyright of its original author


Bornean jungle, credit: https://exclusives.webjet.com.au/deals/t...h-flights/ 
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The Bornean tiger was said to be small like its Sumatran relative (Page 35: https://books.google.com/books?redir_esc...er&f=false), and mostly brown with faint stripes (https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Eri...stence.pdf). For comparison, a male Sumatran tiger in the jungle of Bukit Barisan Selatan National Park, credit: https://www.newscientist.com/article/sum...rongholds/ 

*This image is copyright of its original author


People in Borneo have alleged that the tiger existed in their island not very long ago. When Taufik Wijaya of Mongabay paid a visit to Iber Djamal, a leader of the Dayak Ngaju, an indigenous Bornean folk, particularly in the Indonesian part of Borneo, which is called "Kalimantan" (meaning "Borneo"), he noticed a local kind of machete called the "Mandau", which had fangs on it. According to Djamal, these fangs were from a tiger that was killed by his ancestor, not a leopard or clouded leopard. Photo of Djamal with his Mandau, with the fangs at the bottom, next to his hand, by Jemmie Delvian: https://news.mongabay.com/2016/11/was-bo...of-tigers/ 

*This image is copyright of its original author


It is not just Bornean natives who alleged that there were tigers were in Borneo. Amongst the foreigners who talked about the tiger in Borneo was Douchan Gersi, who claimed to have seen one in South Belayan, East Kalimantan, in 1975, and published 2 photographs to support his statement, apparently including one in Page 87 of this book: https://books.google.com/books?id=wUPvHA...edir_esc=y

Douchan Gersi the predecessor of the likes of Steve Irwin and Jeff Corwin: https://bali-gazette.com/le-plus-grand-k...han-gersi/ 

*This image is copyright of its original author
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Switzerland Spalea Offline
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@BorneanTiger :

It a first time I read something about the existence possibility of a Bornean tiger. Why not as you say ! After all, Borneo, noticeably bigger than Sumatra and Java (I believe that Borneo is the fourth biggest island of the Earth between New Guinea and Madagascar), fulfils the conditions to be inhabited by tigers: climate, big forests, fauna... But we have never read that it existed.

You show a native's testimony, enjoying a Bornean tiger's fang... Yes ok.

I think it's perhaps possible that a tiger came to Borneo. But if we look at the map we nevertheless see that a real inlet of the sea separates Borneo from Java and Sumatra. It's very possible for a tiger to go from Sumatra to Java because these two islands are quite close, follow each other very closely. We can easily imagine a tiger swimming from Sumatra to Java. But to Borneo it's a quite another story.

If we could find some facts, some other bones left (more convincing than a single fang), it would be interesting because it would prove that, in a recent past, Borneo was closer to Sumatra or Java than now, making possible a tiger migration and the possibility of an indigenous population.

Another specy commune to Java, Sumatra and Borneo: the ourangutan.

PS: I smiled when I discovered for the first time your pseudo. It was, IMO, a mythical creature, quite mysterious and now you're evoking it... Yes, good !
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United Arab Emirates BorneanTiger Offline
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( This post was last modified: 07-15-2019, 03:04 PM by BorneanTiger )

(07-14-2019, 12:45 PM)Spalea Wrote: @BorneanTiger :

It a first time I read something about the existence possibility of a Bornean tiger. Why not as you say ! After all, Borneo, noticeably bigger than Sumatra and Java (I believe that Borneo is the fourth biggest island of the Earth between New Guinea and Madagascar), fulfils the conditions to be inhabited by tigers: climate, big forests, fauna... But we have never read that it existed.

You show a native's testimony, enjoying a Bornean tiger's fang... Yes ok.

I think it's perhaps possible that a tiger came to Borneo. But if we look at the map we nevertheless see that a real inlet of the sea separates Borneo from Java and Sumatra. It's very possible for a tiger to go from Sumatra to Java because these two islands are quite close, follow each other very closely. We can easily imagine a tiger swimming from Sumatra to Java. But to Borneo it's a quite another story.

If we could find some facts, some other bones left (more convincing than a single fang), it would be interesting because it would prove that, in a recent past, Borneo was closer to Sumatra or Java than now, making possible a tiger migration and the possibility of an indigenous population.

Another specy commune to Java, Sumatra and Borneo: the ourangutan.

PS: I smiled when I discovered for the first time your pseudo. It was, IMO, a mythical creature, quite mysterious and now you're evoking it... Yes, good !

Yes, that was a purpose of my pseudo, the Bornean tiger isn't a well-known animal, unlike even its Balinese, Javan and Caspian relatives, so I wanted to spread awareness on it, that there were indeed tigers on the island of Borneo, and you're not alone in wondering why the island doesn't have any tigers (https://www.quora.com/Why-are-there-no-tigers-in-Borneo), even scientists have wandered why:

Taufik Wijaya, Mongabayhttps://news.mongabay.com/2016/11/was-bo...of-tigers/

"Scientifically, the nonexistence of tigers in Kalimantan raises many questions among researchers. The merging in ancient times of Borneo with mainland Southeast Asia certainly brought to it a variety of Asiatic wildlife.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Historical range of tiger is shown in pale yellow and current range (2006) in green. Map source: Fate of Wild Tigers: Sanderson, E., Forrest, J., Loucks, C., Ginsberg, J., Dinerstein, E., Seidensticker, J., Leimgruber, P., Songer, M., Heydlauff, A., O’Brien, T., Bryja, G., Klenzendorf, S., Wikramanayake, E. (2006). The Technical Assessment: Setting Priorities for the Conservation and Recovery of Wild Tigers: 2005–2015. License: Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 Generic

As a predator, the path of the tiger in the past was certainly influenced by the distribution of its prey. From a habitat perspective the characterstics of Sumatra today are similar with those of Kalimantan.

“Almost all of the animals in Kalimantan are also in Sumatra, including the orangutan and elephant. But surprisingly in Kalimantan today there aren’t any tigers,” Dinata said. “Dayak people’s recognition of the existence of tigers in the past would be an interesting thing to study.”

On the other hand, many of the sources of scientific findings in the past century are by Western researchers — it’s very rare to get information from local communities to be summarized in the scientific record."


The Earl of Cranbrook: https://www.researchgate.net/publication...cal_record

"The Late Pleistocene mammals of Borneo included ten species also present among a Javan Middle Pleistocene savanna-adapted assemblage. Of these, four are categorised as ‘megafuana’: a giant pangolin, Javan rhinoceros, Malay tapir and tiger; the Sumatran rhinoceros can be added. In addition, there are less secure Pleistocene records of Asian elephant from Sarawak and Brunei. Holocene canid remains from Madai could either be the dhole or an early domestic dog. Palynological data combined with the mammal fauna confirm that around 45,000 years ago the vicinity of Niah was vegetated by closed forest. The continuous presence of a suite of arboreal specialists, including large primates, indicates that forest cover persisted through the terminal Pleistocene. Among local extinctions, the giant pangolin apparently disappeared early in this period, but tiger, Javan rhinoceros and tapir probably survived into the last millennium. Human predation of juveniles may account for the loss of the large ungulates, but the disappearance of tiger needs another explanation."


One reason that I can think of for the Bornean tiger not being present today is that it suffered from the same problem as its Balinese and Javan relatives: persecution by humans, and for now, though Borneo is a relatively large island with a rainforest, I discovered this horrifying article from 2013 about the threat posed by logging, agribusiness and industrialisation to the forests of Borneo and Sumatra (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/m...s-palm-oil). To quote Wijaya of Mongabayhttps://news.mongabay.com/2016/11/was-bo...of-tigers/

"One recent morning I paid a visit to Iber Djamal, a leader of the Dayak Ngaju indigenous people. He had invited us to see his mandau, a traditional Dayak weapon. When I saw the mandau, which is a kind of machete, my attention focused not on the blade but on the fangs adorning it. What surprised me was that they were said to be tiger fangs.

“These are tiger fangs, not leopard fangs,” Iber said. “The fangs that decorate this mandau are from the animals that have been killed by the weapons inherited from my ancestors. Besides tigers, there are crocodiles, bears, leopards and boars.”

What kind of tiger was killed with this mandau?

“A tiger in Kalimantan. It was killed by my ancestor. There used to be tigers in Kalimantan.”

*This image is copyright of its original author

Iber Djamal shows off the tiger fangs on his mandau. Photo by Jemmie Delvian

Iber’s explanation certainly differs from the general understanding about tigers in Kalimantan, the Indonesian part of Borneo island.

Iber said that the tiger — called harimau in Indonesian and haramaung in Dayak Ngaju — was one of the animals most commonly hunted by his ancestors.
“We believe that if a man can hunt and kill a tiger when his wife is pregnant, the child will grow up to be a king or a leader,” he said. If a mandau is adorned with tiger fangs, it will endow whomever wields it with courage.

“Maybe because they’re worth so much to some people, tigers in Kalimantan have been hunted to extinction,” he said. He added that if anyone in his tribe ever found a tiger, it wouldn’t be hunted, “because these animals need to be protected.”"


If the Bornean tiger went extinct in prehistoric times like its Longdan, Ngandong, Wanhsien and Trinil relatives, then it's peculiar that Bornean natives of recent or present times would hold it in the same type of esteem as say Indians would for the Bengal tiger, or Russians would for the Amur tiger.

Chinese reliefs of the tiger by Thomas Quine at Sarawak, Malaysian Borneo, on Wikimedia Commons: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:...21871).jpg, https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:...22573).jpghttps://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:...60275).jpg

Chinese Buddhist Temple in Kuching: https://www.flickr.com/photos/quinet/28412821871/https://www.flickr.com/photos/quinet/28157560275/

*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


Chinese warrior astride a tiger, Semenggoh Nature Reserve: https://www.flickr.com/photos/quinet/26966322573/

*This image is copyright of its original author


@phatio posted some more stuff about the tiger, both fangs and skins (https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-on-the-...s?page=146), and welcome to the thread, Phatio.

(04-10-2019, 03:26 PM)phatio Wrote: Was Borneo once a land of tigers?

The scientific consensus is that while tigers did inhabit the Indonesian islands of Java and Bali, and still live in Sumatra, they never lived in Borneo.
Indigenous peoples in Borneo say otherwise. So-called ‘tiger fangs,’ for example, often feature in traditional Dayak ceremonies.
Some researchers wonder if the question of whether tigers lived in Borneo has gotten short shrift from experts who should be paying more attention to local communities.

PALANGKARAYA, Indonesia — One recent morning I paid a visit to Iber Djamal, a leader of the Dayak Ngaju indigenous people. He had invited us to see his mandau, a traditional Dayak weapon.

When I saw the mandau, which is a kind of machete, my attention focused not on the blade but on the fangs adorning it. What surprised me was that they were said to be tiger fangs.

“These are tiger fangs, not leopard fangs,” Iber said. “The fangs that decorate this mandau are from the animals that have been killed by the weapons inherited from my ancestors. Besides tigers, there are crocodiles, bears, leopards and boars.” What kind of tiger was killed with this mandau?

“A tiger in Kalimantan. It was killed by my ancestor. There used to be tigers in Kalimantan.”


*This image is copyright of its original author

Iber Djamal shows off the tiger fangs on his mandau. Photo by Jemmie Delvian

Iber’s explanation certainly differs from the general understanding about tigers in Kalimantan, the Indonesian part of Borneo island. The present scientific consensus is that no one in Kalimantan has ever found a tiger. Researchers think the only tigers in Indonesia are in Bali (now extinct), Java (thought to be extinct) and Sumatra (only a few hundred left).

Iber said that the tiger — called harimau in Indonesian and haramaung in Dayak Ngaju — was one of the animals most commonly hunted by his ancestors. “We believe that if a man can hunt and kill a tiger when his wife is pregnant, the child will grow up to be a king or a leader,” he said. If a mandau is adorned with tiger fangs, it will endow whomever wields it with courage.

“Maybe because they’re worth so much to some people, tigers in Kalimantan have been hunted to extinction,” he said. He added that if anyone in his tribe ever found a tiger, it wouldn’t be hunted, “because these animals need to be protected.”


*This image is copyright of its original author

Fangs from a tiger or a clouded leopard?

After encountering this phenomenon, I contacted Yoan Dinata, chairperson of Forum HarimauKita, an NGO, about the possibility of a long-lost species of Bornean tiger. “There is no record or scholarship of tigers ever living in Kalimantan,” Dinata said. “But there is a possibility that in the past they did live there, because the islands of Java, Sumatra and Borneo were once fused with mainland Southeast Asia.”

According to Dinata, in Kalimantan today there is only the Sunda clouded leopard (Neofelis diardi). “I don’t know if the fangs adorning all of those mandau blades are the fangs of tigers or clouded leopards,” he said. Dinata suggested that there should be more research as to the origin of the fangs. “If they really are tiger fangs, we should study how old they are.”

Scientifically, the nonexistence of tigers in Kalimantan raises many questions among researchers. The merging in ancient times of Borneo with mainland Southeast Asia certainly brought to it a variety of Asiatic wildlife. As a predator, the path of the tiger in the past was certainly influenced by the distribution of its prey. From a habitat perspective the characterstics of Sumatra today are similar with those of Kalimantan.

“Almost all of the animals in Kalimantan are also in Sumatra, including the orangutan and elephant. But surprisingly in Kalimantan today there aren’t any tigers,” Dinata said. “Dayak people’s recognition of the existence of tigers in the past would be an interesting thing to study.”

On the other hand, many of the sources of scientific findings in the past century are by Western researchers — it’s very rare to get information from local communities to be summarized in the scientific record. For example, findings that the Sumatran rhinoceros (Dicerorhinus sumatrensis) might exist in Kalimantan were questioned by some researchers. Only after evidence such as horns and tracks were found did experts begin to seriously explore the existence of this species. As a result, experts finally met the Sumatran rhino in Borneo.

Maybe at a historical moment the tracks of a Bornean tiger will be revealed based on information from local communities. Who knows?
https://news.mongabay.com/2016/11/was-bo...of-tigers/
by Taufik Wijaya on 7 November 2016 | Translated by Philip Jacobson

----------------------------------

Recently I came across an article about Bornean Tiger written by a local bornean guy. very interesting but of course it's in indonesian, you can use translate if you want to read the whole story.
https://folksofdayak.wordpress.com/2018/...tau-fakta/
it is said there were/are tigers in Borneo. The indigenous peoples of Borneo, commonly known as Dayak called the big cat "Haramaong, Remaong, Lencau" etc. and they know the larger striped cat is different from smaller clouded leopard which they called "Kule".
according to the writter, he/she has some Bornean tiger's canines which is much larger than their Sumatran's cousin. unfortunately he/she dind't post the comparison picture. The Dayak people also made "Besunung", one of their traditional clothes from real Bornean tiger skins.

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@GrizzlyClaw and @tigerluver i need your help once again to determine the originality of these allegedly Bornean tiger canines.

*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


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let say if these canines and skins were real, some people suggest they probably got those stuff from trading with sumatran, javan or malayan people where tigers existed there. but i highly doubt that, as the indigenous peoples of Borneo are forest dweller peoples. They live completely from their jungle, their home, the only resources they knew for so long. until fairly recently these people hardly knew about money, let alone trading with foreign people.

Here's some sighting reports from my quick search. May 2017
https://www.borneonews.co.id/berita/6344...da-harimau
witness insisted they saw a tiger not a clouded leopard because the animal is larger and longer, and it's a striped cat not spotted. the animal's skin is as clean and soft as carpet, they added. 

from March 2018
https://www.indopos.co.id/read/2018/03/0...uk-sekolah

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the authority checking animals pugmark

Interestingly, all of the story above coming from the same area, more or less around the yellow circle in the map below

*This image is copyright of its original author


what do you think guys? is this false alarm or have we been missing something here?

another interesting read
https://www.researchgate.net/publication...cal_record
https://www.researchgate.net/publication..._existence
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United Arab Emirates BorneanTiger Offline
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( This post was last modified: 07-31-2019, 12:52 PM by BorneanTiger )

The Palawan tiger
 
I have noticed something about the fossils discovered in the Philippine island of Palawan, which might affect the issue of whether or not the tiger was there, even if to a minor degree. Firstly, let's start with a description of Palawan, before talking about what I noticed about the fossils.
 
Palawan is that narrow yet noticeably sized island in the southwest of the Philippines, near the Greater Sunda Island of Borneo: https://www.flickr.com/photos/tamaratiu/5854493319, https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Greater_sunda_islands.png

*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


Image of Palawan by Lonely Planethttps://www.lonelyplanet.com/philippines/palawan

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Puerto-Princesa Subterranean River National Park, a UNESCO World Heritage Site: https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/652/ 

*This image is copyright of its original author

 
Not only is Palawan close to Borneo, they are thought to have been connected in prehistoric times, judging from the molecular phylogeny of rodents of the family Muridae (including house mice and Old World rats), though there is no geographical evidence to support this, so it could be that their masses were greater in those times, which meant that the Balabac Strait between them was narrow enough for tigers to swim from Borneo to Palawan: https://books.google.com/books?id=JmSsNuwMAxgC&pg=PT219&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=palawan&f=false, http://macrocosm-magbook.blogspot.com/2008/07/more-evidence-of-ancient-tigers-in.html, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0031018208002113?via%3Dihub

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The fossils are two articulated phalanx bones, possibly from the same toe, which were excavated amidst an assemblage of other animal bones and stone tools in Ille Cave near the village of New Ibajay in the province of El Nido, in the northern part of Palawan. One bone (IV-1998-P-38239) was a full basal phalanx of the second digit of the left manus, and the other (IV-1998-P-38238) was the distal portion of a subterminal phalanx of the same digit and manus. With the former bone having a greatest length of 46.44 mm (1.828 inches), and the latter having a medio-lateral width of the distal end of 16.04 mm (0.631 inches), for example, their measurements were similar to those of Malayan and Indian tigers. The other fossils were identified as being of long-tailed macaques, deer, bearded pigs, small mammals, lizards, snakes and turtles: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0031018208002113?via%3Dihub
   
 
Ille Cave, north Palawan: https://pia-journal.co.uk/articles/10.5334/pia.308/

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A potential prey of the tiger, the Palawan bearded pig (Sus ahoenobarbus), a different species to the Bornean bearded pig (Sus barbatus): https://www.zoochat.com/community/media/...us.177240/
*This image is copyright of its original author


Scenario 1: The tiger subfossils were imported from elsewhere
 
From the stone tools, besides the evidence for cuts on the bones, and the use of fire, it would appear that early humans had accumulated the bones. Additionally, the condition of the tiger subfossils, dated to approximately 12,000 to 9,000 years ago, differed from other fossils in the assemblage, dated to the Upper Paleolithic. The tiger subfossils showed longitudinal fracture of the cortical bone due to weathering, which suggests that they had post-mortem been exposed to light and air. Tiger parts were commonly used as amulets in South and Southeast Asia, so it may be that the tiger parts were imported from elsewhere, as is the case with tiger canine teeth which were found in Ambangan sites dating to the 10th to 12th centuries in Butuan, Mindanao: https://books.google.com/books?id=JmSsNuwMAxgC&pg=PT219&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=tiger&f=false, https://books.google.com/books?id=e-hyDgAAQBAJ&pg=PA80&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=tiger&f=false
 
Scenario 2: The tiger migrated to Palawan from elsewhere
 
On the other hand, the proximity of Borneo and Palawan also makes it likely that the tiger had colonized Palawan from Borneo in the Middle Pleistocene, about 420,000 – 620,000 years ago, during periods in which relative sea levels decreased to their lowest, at circa −130 m (−430 ft), by the expansion of ice sheets. Considering the ability of tigers to swim, it is possible that the tiger crossed the Balabac Strait when the distance between the islands of Borneo and Palawan was much less than today, during the Middle and Late Pleistocene, before the Last Glacial Maximum circa 18,000 years ago: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0031018208002113?via%3Dihub, https://www.researchgate.net/publication/223800396_Palaeoenvironments_of_insular_Southeast_Asia_during_the_Last_Glacial_Period_A_savanna_corridor_in_Sundaland, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0277379101001019?via%3Dihubhttps://www.nature.com/articles/nature03975

Piper et al.: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0031018208002113?via%3Dihub
     

12 non-volant mammals in Palawan have close relatives in other islands of the Sunda Shelf, including Borneo. Thus the Palawan is considered to be the northeastern part of the biogeographic region of the Sunda Islands. It is believed that Palawan had a landmass of approximately 100,000 km² (39,000 miles²), when the sea was 120 metres (390 feet) lower than at current levels during the Last Glacial Maximum, and that the climate was dry and cool compared to now, with open woodland mostly constituting the vegetation, except perhaps for a few savannahs. Palawan was inhabited by a number of arboreal and terrestrial animals, such as pigs and deer, as indicated by an archaeozoological study of Ille Cave: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0031018208002113?via%3Dihub, https://www.researchgate.net/publication/255591467_The_mammals_of_Palawan_Island_Philippines, https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF00142213
 
At the end of the Pleistocene, the Balabac Strait widened due to the amelioration of the climate and subsequent rise of the sea level. The widening of the strait would have isolated the Palawan tigers and narrowed their available territory. The rise in sea level was such that almost 90% of Palawan got inundated, and its total landmass reduced to less than 12,000 km² (4,600 miles²), by around 5,000 years ago. Moreover, in the early Holocene, closed canopy rainforest would have replaced the open seasonal woodland and savannah. As indicated by the Terminal Pleistocene archaeozoological record from Ille Cave, climatic and environmental change, besides predation by humans, put pressure populations of deer, which were likely important resources for the tiger. The number of deer thus declined after 5,000 years ago, and before the start of historical records. To put it simply, a significant decrease in habitat and food resources, isolation from other populations by increasing sea levels, and possibly hunting by humans likely caused the extinction of the Palawan tiger population, just as these or similar factors threaten existing populations of tigers. To date, no evidence exists for the tiger surviving in Palawan beyond 12,000 years ago: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0031018208002113?via%3Dihub, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0277379105001617?via%3Dihub, https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF00142213
 
As mentioned by The Philippine Business and News, if the tiger wasn't native to Borneo or Palawan, then why would natives there use foreign animals for their rituals? https://thephilbiznews.com/2019/07/05/environment-feature-sumatra-tigers-in-palawan/
 
As it is, the case of the 2 Palawanese tiger toe-bones being found in Ille Cave amongst the fossils of other animals, which were likely collected by humans, somewhat resembles the case of 9 claws or toe bones of Upper Pleistocene Eurasian cave lions (Panthera spelaea or Panthera leo spelaea) from roughly the same period (the Upper Paleolithic or Pleistocene, around 16,000 years ago), which were found in La Garma Cave in Spain, amongst the fossils of other animals, including horses and goats, and were likely to have been used by early humans for rituals, and it is not like cave lions did not occur in the Iberian Peninsula: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/27/science/cave-lion-pelts-caverns.html 

The area within the La Garma cave system where the cave lion claws were found, credit: Pedro Saura

*This image is copyright of its original author

 
8 of the 9 cave lion toe bones found in the Upper Paleolithic cave site, credit: Marian Cueto

*This image is copyright of its original author
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United Arab Emirates BorneanTiger Offline
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(07-14-2019, 01:42 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote:
(07-14-2019, 12:45 PM)Spalea Wrote: @BorneanTiger :

It a first time I read something about the existence possibility of a Bornean tiger. Why not as you say ! After all, Borneo, noticeably bigger than Sumatra and Java (I believe that Borneo is the fourth biggest island of the Earth between New Guinea and Madagascar), fulfils the conditions to be inhabited by tigers: climate, big forests, fauna... But we have never read that it existed.

You show a native's testimony, enjoying a Bornean tiger's fang... Yes ok.

I think it's perhaps possible that a tiger came to Borneo. But if we look at the map we nevertheless see that a real inlet of the sea separates Borneo from Java and Sumatra. It's very possible for a tiger to go from Sumatra to Java because these two islands are quite close, follow each other very closely. We can easily imagine a tiger swimming from Sumatra to Java. But to Borneo it's a quite another story.

If we could find some facts, some other bones left (more convincing than a single fang), it would be interesting because it would prove that, in a recent past, Borneo was closer to Sumatra or Java than now, making possible a tiger migration and the possibility of an indigenous population.

Another specy commune to Java, Sumatra and Borneo: the ourangutan.

PS: I smiled when I discovered for the first time your pseudo. It was, IMO, a mythical creature, quite mysterious and now you're evoking it... Yes, good !

Yes, that was a purpose of my pseudo, the Bornean tiger isn't a well-known animal, unlike even its Balinese, Javan and Caspian relatives, so I wanted to spread awareness on it, that there were indeed tigers on the island of Borneo, and you're not alone in wondering why the island doesn't have any tigers (https://www.quora.com/Why-are-there-no-tigers-in-Borneo), even scientists have wandered why:

Taufik Wijaya, Mongabayhttps://news.mongabay.com/2016/11/was-bo...of-tigers/

"Scientifically, the nonexistence of tigers in Kalimantan raises many questions among researchers. The merging in ancient times of Borneo with mainland Southeast Asia certainly brought to it a variety of Asiatic wildlife.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Historical range of tiger is shown in pale yellow and current range (2006) in green. Map source: Fate of Wild Tigers: Sanderson, E., Forrest, J., Loucks, C., Ginsberg, J., Dinerstein, E., Seidensticker, J., Leimgruber, P., Songer, M., Heydlauff, A., O’Brien, T., Bryja, G., Klenzendorf, S., Wikramanayake, E. (2006). The Technical Assessment: Setting Priorities for the Conservation and Recovery of Wild Tigers: 2005–2015. License: Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 Generic

As a predator, the path of the tiger in the past was certainly influenced by the distribution of its prey. From a habitat perspective the characterstics of Sumatra today are similar with those of Kalimantan.

“Almost all of the animals in Kalimantan are also in Sumatra, including the orangutan and elephant. But surprisingly in Kalimantan today there aren’t any tigers,” Dinata said. “Dayak people’s recognition of the existence of tigers in the past would be an interesting thing to study.”

On the other hand, many of the sources of scientific findings in the past century are by Western researchers — it’s very rare to get information from local communities to be summarized in the scientific record."


The Earl of Cranbrook: https://www.researchgate.net/publication...cal_record

"The Late Pleistocene mammals of Borneo included ten species also present among a Javan Middle Pleistocene savanna-adapted assemblage. Of these, four are categorised as ‘megafuana’: a giant pangolin, Javan rhinoceros, Malay tapir and tiger; the Sumatran rhinoceros can be added. In addition, there are less secure Pleistocene records of Asian elephant from Sarawak and Brunei. Holocene canid remains from Madai could either be the dhole or an early domestic dog. Palynological data combined with the mammal fauna confirm that around 45,000 years ago the vicinity of Niah was vegetated by closed forest. The continuous presence of a suite of arboreal specialists, including large primates, indicates that forest cover persisted through the terminal Pleistocene. Among local extinctions, the giant pangolin apparently disappeared early in this period, but tiger, Javan rhinoceros and tapir probably survived into the last millennium. Human predation of juveniles may account for the loss of the large ungulates, but the disappearance of tiger needs another explanation."


One reason that I can think of for the Bornean tiger not being present today is that it suffered from the same problem as its Balinese and Javan relatives: persecution by humans, and for now, though Borneo is a relatively large island with a rainforest, I discovered this horrifying article from 2013 about the threat posed by logging, agribusiness and industrialisation to the forests of Borneo and Sumatra (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/m...s-palm-oil). To quote Wijaya of Mongabayhttps://news.mongabay.com/2016/11/was-bo...of-tigers/

"One recent morning I paid a visit to Iber Djamal, a leader of the Dayak Ngaju indigenous people. He had invited us to see his mandau, a traditional Dayak weapon. When I saw the mandau, which is a kind of machete, my attention focused not on the blade but on the fangs adorning it. What surprised me was that they were said to be tiger fangs.

“These are tiger fangs, not leopard fangs,” Iber said. “The fangs that decorate this mandau are from the animals that have been killed by the weapons inherited from my ancestors. Besides tigers, there are crocodiles, bears, leopards and boars.”

What kind of tiger was killed with this mandau?

“A tiger in Kalimantan. It was killed by my ancestor. There used to be tigers in Kalimantan.”

*This image is copyright of its original author

Iber Djamal shows off the tiger fangs on his mandau. Photo by Jemmie Delvian

Iber’s explanation certainly differs from the general understanding about tigers in Kalimantan, the Indonesian part of Borneo island.

Iber said that the tiger — called harimau in Indonesian and haramaung in Dayak Ngaju — was one of the animals most commonly hunted by his ancestors.
“We believe that if a man can hunt and kill a tiger when his wife is pregnant, the child will grow up to be a king or a leader,” he said. If a mandau is adorned with tiger fangs, it will endow whomever wields it with courage.

“Maybe because they’re worth so much to some people, tigers in Kalimantan have been hunted to extinction,” he said. He added that if anyone in his tribe ever found a tiger, it wouldn’t be hunted, “because these animals need to be protected.”"


If the Bornean tiger went extinct in prehistoric times like its Longdan, Ngandong, Wanhsien and Trinil relatives, then it's peculiar that Bornean natives of recent or present times would hold it in the same type of esteem as say Indians would for the Bengal tiger, or Russians would for the Amur tiger.

Chinese reliefs of the tiger by Thomas Quine at Sarawak, Malaysian Borneo, on Wikimedia Commons: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:...21871).jpg, https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:...22573).jpghttps://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:...60275).jpg

Chinese Buddhist Temple in Kuching: https://www.flickr.com/photos/quinet/28412821871/https://www.flickr.com/photos/quinet/28157560275/

*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


Chinese warrior astride a tiger, Semenggoh Nature Reserve: https://www.flickr.com/photos/quinet/26966322573/

*This image is copyright of its original author


@phatio posted some more stuff about the tiger, both fangs and skins (https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-on-the-...s?page=146), and welcome to the thread, Phatio.

(04-10-2019, 03:26 PM)phatio Wrote: Was Borneo once a land of tigers?

The scientific consensus is that while tigers did inhabit the Indonesian islands of Java and Bali, and still live in Sumatra, they never lived in Borneo.
Indigenous peoples in Borneo say otherwise. So-called ‘tiger fangs,’ for example, often feature in traditional Dayak ceremonies.
Some researchers wonder if the question of whether tigers lived in Borneo has gotten short shrift from experts who should be paying more attention to local communities.

PALANGKARAYA, Indonesia — One recent morning I paid a visit to Iber Djamal, a leader of the Dayak Ngaju indigenous people. He had invited us to see his mandau, a traditional Dayak weapon.

When I saw the mandau, which is a kind of machete, my attention focused not on the blade but on the fangs adorning it. What surprised me was that they were said to be tiger fangs.

“These are tiger fangs, not leopard fangs,” Iber said. “The fangs that decorate this mandau are from the animals that have been killed by the weapons inherited from my ancestors. Besides tigers, there are crocodiles, bears, leopards and boars.” What kind of tiger was killed with this mandau?

“A tiger in Kalimantan. It was killed by my ancestor. There used to be tigers in Kalimantan.”


*This image is copyright of its original author

Iber Djamal shows off the tiger fangs on his mandau. Photo by Jemmie Delvian

Iber’s explanation certainly differs from the general understanding about tigers in Kalimantan, the Indonesian part of Borneo island. The present scientific consensus is that no one in Kalimantan has ever found a tiger. Researchers think the only tigers in Indonesia are in Bali (now extinct), Java (thought to be extinct) and Sumatra (only a few hundred left).

Iber said that the tiger — called harimau in Indonesian and haramaung in Dayak Ngaju — was one of the animals most commonly hunted by his ancestors. “We believe that if a man can hunt and kill a tiger when his wife is pregnant, the child will grow up to be a king or a leader,” he said. If a mandau is adorned with tiger fangs, it will endow whomever wields it with courage.

“Maybe because they’re worth so much to some people, tigers in Kalimantan have been hunted to extinction,” he said. He added that if anyone in his tribe ever found a tiger, it wouldn’t be hunted, “because these animals need to be protected.”


*This image is copyright of its original author

Fangs from a tiger or a clouded leopard?

After encountering this phenomenon, I contacted Yoan Dinata, chairperson of Forum HarimauKita, an NGO, about the possibility of a long-lost species of Bornean tiger. “There is no record or scholarship of tigers ever living in Kalimantan,” Dinata said. “But there is a possibility that in the past they did live there, because the islands of Java, Sumatra and Borneo were once fused with mainland Southeast Asia.”

According to Dinata, in Kalimantan today there is only the Sunda clouded leopard (Neofelis diardi). “I don’t know if the fangs adorning all of those mandau blades are the fangs of tigers or clouded leopards,” he said. Dinata suggested that there should be more research as to the origin of the fangs. “If they really are tiger fangs, we should study how old they are.”

Scientifically, the nonexistence of tigers in Kalimantan raises many questions among researchers. The merging in ancient times of Borneo with mainland Southeast Asia certainly brought to it a variety of Asiatic wildlife. As a predator, the path of the tiger in the past was certainly influenced by the distribution of its prey. From a habitat perspective the characterstics of Sumatra today are similar with those of Kalimantan.

“Almost all of the animals in Kalimantan are also in Sumatra, including the orangutan and elephant. But surprisingly in Kalimantan today there aren’t any tigers,” Dinata said. “Dayak people’s recognition of the existence of tigers in the past would be an interesting thing to study.”

On the other hand, many of the sources of scientific findings in the past century are by Western researchers — it’s very rare to get information from local communities to be summarized in the scientific record. For example, findings that the Sumatran rhinoceros (Dicerorhinus sumatrensis) might exist in Kalimantan were questioned by some researchers. Only after evidence such as horns and tracks were found did experts begin to seriously explore the existence of this species. As a result, experts finally met the Sumatran rhino in Borneo.

Maybe at a historical moment the tracks of a Bornean tiger will be revealed based on information from local communities. Who knows?
https://news.mongabay.com/2016/11/was-bo...of-tigers/
by Taufik Wijaya on 7 November 2016 | Translated by Philip Jacobson

----------------------------------

Recently I came across an article about Bornean Tiger written by a local bornean guy. very interesting but of course it's in indonesian, you can use translate if you want to read the whole story.
https://folksofdayak.wordpress.com/2018/...tau-fakta/
it is said there were/are tigers in Borneo. The indigenous peoples of Borneo, commonly known as Dayak called the big cat "Haramaong, Remaong, Lencau" etc. and they know the larger striped cat is different from smaller clouded leopard which they called "Kule".
according to the writter, he/she has some Bornean tiger's canines which is much larger than their Sumatran's cousin. unfortunately he/she dind't post the comparison picture. The Dayak people also made "Besunung", one of their traditional clothes from real Bornean tiger skins.

*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author



@GrizzlyClaw and @tigerluver i need your help once again to determine the originality of these allegedly Bornean tiger canines.

*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


let say if these canines and skins were real, some people suggest they probably got those stuff from trading with sumatran, javan or malayan people where tigers existed there. but i highly doubt that, as the indigenous peoples of Borneo are forest dweller peoples. They live completely from their jungle, their home, the only resources they knew for so long. until fairly recently these people hardly knew about money, let alone trading with foreign people.

Here's some sighting reports from my quick search. May 2017
https://www.borneonews.co.id/berita/6344...da-harimau
witness insisted they saw a tiger not a clouded leopard because the animal is larger and longer, and it's a striped cat not spotted. the animal's skin is as clean and soft as carpet, they added. 

from March 2018
https://www.indopos.co.id/read/2018/03/0...uk-sekolah

*This image is copyright of its original author

the authority checking animals pugmark

Interestingly, all of the story above coming from the same area, more or less around the yellow circle in the map below

*This image is copyright of its original author


what do you think guys? is this false alarm or have we been missing something here?

another interesting read
https://www.researchgate.net/publication...cal_record
https://www.researchgate.net/publication..._existence

@tigerluver About your new thread, we already have this one.
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United States tigerluver Offline
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#6

(09-01-2019, 03:37 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote:
(07-14-2019, 01:42 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote:
(07-14-2019, 12:45 PM)Spalea Wrote: @BorneanTiger :

It a first time I read something about the existence possibility of a Bornean tiger. Why not as you say ! After all, Borneo, noticeably bigger than Sumatra and Java (I believe that Borneo is the fourth biggest island of the Earth between New Guinea and Madagascar), fulfils the conditions to be inhabited by tigers: climate, big forests, fauna... But we have never read that it existed.

You show a native's testimony, enjoying a Bornean tiger's fang... Yes ok.

I think it's perhaps possible that a tiger came to Borneo. But if we look at the map we nevertheless see that a real inlet of the sea separates Borneo from Java and Sumatra. It's very possible for a tiger to go from Sumatra to Java because these two islands are quite close, follow each other very closely. We can easily imagine a tiger swimming from Sumatra to Java. But to Borneo it's a quite another story.

If we could find some facts, some other bones left (more convincing than a single fang), it would be interesting because it would prove that, in a recent past, Borneo was closer to Sumatra or Java than now, making possible a tiger migration and the possibility of an indigenous population.

Another specy commune to Java, Sumatra and Borneo: the ourangutan.

PS: I smiled when I discovered for the first time your pseudo. It was, IMO, a mythical creature, quite mysterious and now you're evoking it... Yes, good !

Yes, that was a purpose of my pseudo, the Bornean tiger isn't a well-known animal, unlike even its Balinese, Javan and Caspian relatives, so I wanted to spread awareness on it, that there were indeed tigers on the island of Borneo, and you're not alone in wondering why the island doesn't have any tigers (https://www.quora.com/Why-are-there-no-tigers-in-Borneo), even scientists have wandered why:

Taufik Wijaya, Mongabayhttps://news.mongabay.com/2016/11/was-bo...of-tigers/

"Scientifically, the nonexistence of tigers in Kalimantan raises many questions among researchers. The merging in ancient times of Borneo with mainland Southeast Asia certainly brought to it a variety of Asiatic wildlife.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Historical range of tiger is shown in pale yellow and current range (2006) in green. Map source: Fate of Wild Tigers: Sanderson, E., Forrest, J., Loucks, C., Ginsberg, J., Dinerstein, E., Seidensticker, J., Leimgruber, P., Songer, M., Heydlauff, A., O’Brien, T., Bryja, G., Klenzendorf, S., Wikramanayake, E. (2006). The Technical Assessment: Setting Priorities for the Conservation and Recovery of Wild Tigers: 2005–2015. License: Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 Generic

As a predator, the path of the tiger in the past was certainly influenced by the distribution of its prey. From a habitat perspective the characterstics of Sumatra today are similar with those of Kalimantan.

“Almost all of the animals in Kalimantan are also in Sumatra, including the orangutan and elephant. But surprisingly in Kalimantan today there aren’t any tigers,” Dinata said. “Dayak people’s recognition of the existence of tigers in the past would be an interesting thing to study.”

On the other hand, many of the sources of scientific findings in the past century are by Western researchers — it’s very rare to get information from local communities to be summarized in the scientific record."


The Earl of Cranbrook: https://www.researchgate.net/publication...cal_record

"The Late Pleistocene mammals of Borneo included ten species also present among a Javan Middle Pleistocene savanna-adapted assemblage. Of these, four are categorised as ‘megafuana’: a giant pangolin, Javan rhinoceros, Malay tapir and tiger; the Sumatran rhinoceros can be added. In addition, there are less secure Pleistocene records of Asian elephant from Sarawak and Brunei. Holocene canid remains from Madai could either be the dhole or an early domestic dog. Palynological data combined with the mammal fauna confirm that around 45,000 years ago the vicinity of Niah was vegetated by closed forest. The continuous presence of a suite of arboreal specialists, including large primates, indicates that forest cover persisted through the terminal Pleistocene. Among local extinctions, the giant pangolin apparently disappeared early in this period, but tiger, Javan rhinoceros and tapir probably survived into the last millennium. Human predation of juveniles may account for the loss of the large ungulates, but the disappearance of tiger needs another explanation."


One reason that I can think of for the Bornean tiger not being present today is that it suffered from the same problem as its Balinese and Javan relatives: persecution by humans, and for now, though Borneo is a relatively large island with a rainforest, I discovered this horrifying article from 2013 about the threat posed by logging, agribusiness and industrialisation to the forests of Borneo and Sumatra (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/m...s-palm-oil). To quote Wijaya of Mongabayhttps://news.mongabay.com/2016/11/was-bo...of-tigers/

"One recent morning I paid a visit to Iber Djamal, a leader of the Dayak Ngaju indigenous people. He had invited us to see his mandau, a traditional Dayak weapon. When I saw the mandau, which is a kind of machete, my attention focused not on the blade but on the fangs adorning it. What surprised me was that they were said to be tiger fangs.

“These are tiger fangs, not leopard fangs,” Iber said. “The fangs that decorate this mandau are from the animals that have been killed by the weapons inherited from my ancestors. Besides tigers, there are crocodiles, bears, leopards and boars.”

What kind of tiger was killed with this mandau?

“A tiger in Kalimantan. It was killed by my ancestor. There used to be tigers in Kalimantan.”

*This image is copyright of its original author

Iber Djamal shows off the tiger fangs on his mandau. Photo by Jemmie Delvian

Iber’s explanation certainly differs from the general understanding about tigers in Kalimantan, the Indonesian part of Borneo island.

Iber said that the tiger — called harimau in Indonesian and haramaung in Dayak Ngaju — was one of the animals most commonly hunted by his ancestors.
“We believe that if a man can hunt and kill a tiger when his wife is pregnant, the child will grow up to be a king or a leader,” he said. If a mandau is adorned with tiger fangs, it will endow whomever wields it with courage.

“Maybe because they’re worth so much to some people, tigers in Kalimantan have been hunted to extinction,” he said. He added that if anyone in his tribe ever found a tiger, it wouldn’t be hunted, “because these animals need to be protected.”"


If the Bornean tiger went extinct in prehistoric times like its Longdan, Ngandong, Wanhsien and Trinil relatives, then it's peculiar that Bornean natives of recent or present times would hold it in the same type of esteem as say Indians would for the Bengal tiger, or Russians would for the Amur tiger.

Chinese reliefs of the tiger by Thomas Quine at Sarawak, Malaysian Borneo, on Wikimedia Commons: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:...21871).jpg, https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:...22573).jpghttps://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:...60275).jpg

Chinese Buddhist Temple in Kuching: https://www.flickr.com/photos/quinet/28412821871/https://www.flickr.com/photos/quinet/28157560275/

*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


Chinese warrior astride a tiger, Semenggoh Nature Reserve: https://www.flickr.com/photos/quinet/26966322573/

*This image is copyright of its original author


@phatio posted some more stuff about the tiger, both fangs and skins (https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-on-the-...s?page=146), and welcome to the thread, Phatio.

(04-10-2019, 03:26 PM)phatio Wrote: Was Borneo once a land of tigers?

The scientific consensus is that while tigers did inhabit the Indonesian islands of Java and Bali, and still live in Sumatra, they never lived in Borneo.
Indigenous peoples in Borneo say otherwise. So-called ‘tiger fangs,’ for example, often feature in traditional Dayak ceremonies.
Some researchers wonder if the question of whether tigers lived in Borneo has gotten short shrift from experts who should be paying more attention to local communities.

PALANGKARAYA, Indonesia — One recent morning I paid a visit to Iber Djamal, a leader of the Dayak Ngaju indigenous people. He had invited us to see his mandau, a traditional Dayak weapon.

When I saw the mandau, which is a kind of machete, my attention focused not on the blade but on the fangs adorning it. What surprised me was that they were said to be tiger fangs.

“These are tiger fangs, not leopard fangs,” Iber said. “The fangs that decorate this mandau are from the animals that have been killed by the weapons inherited from my ancestors. Besides tigers, there are crocodiles, bears, leopards and boars.” What kind of tiger was killed with this mandau?

“A tiger in Kalimantan. It was killed by my ancestor. There used to be tigers in Kalimantan.”


*This image is copyright of its original author

Iber Djamal shows off the tiger fangs on his mandau. Photo by Jemmie Delvian

Iber’s explanation certainly differs from the general understanding about tigers in Kalimantan, the Indonesian part of Borneo island. The present scientific consensus is that no one in Kalimantan has ever found a tiger. Researchers think the only tigers in Indonesia are in Bali (now extinct), Java (thought to be extinct) and Sumatra (only a few hundred left).

Iber said that the tiger — called harimau in Indonesian and haramaung in Dayak Ngaju — was one of the animals most commonly hunted by his ancestors. “We believe that if a man can hunt and kill a tiger when his wife is pregnant, the child will grow up to be a king or a leader,” he said. If a mandau is adorned with tiger fangs, it will endow whomever wields it with courage.

“Maybe because they’re worth so much to some people, tigers in Kalimantan have been hunted to extinction,” he said. He added that if anyone in his tribe ever found a tiger, it wouldn’t be hunted, “because these animals need to be protected.”


*This image is copyright of its original author

Fangs from a tiger or a clouded leopard?

After encountering this phenomenon, I contacted Yoan Dinata, chairperson of Forum HarimauKita, an NGO, about the possibility of a long-lost species of Bornean tiger. “There is no record or scholarship of tigers ever living in Kalimantan,” Dinata said. “But there is a possibility that in the past they did live there, because the islands of Java, Sumatra and Borneo were once fused with mainland Southeast Asia.”

According to Dinata, in Kalimantan today there is only the Sunda clouded leopard (Neofelis diardi). “I don’t know if the fangs adorning all of those mandau blades are the fangs of tigers or clouded leopards,” he said. Dinata suggested that there should be more research as to the origin of the fangs. “If they really are tiger fangs, we should study how old they are.”

Scientifically, the nonexistence of tigers in Kalimantan raises many questions among researchers. The merging in ancient times of Borneo with mainland Southeast Asia certainly brought to it a variety of Asiatic wildlife. As a predator, the path of the tiger in the past was certainly influenced by the distribution of its prey. From a habitat perspective the characterstics of Sumatra today are similar with those of Kalimantan.

“Almost all of the animals in Kalimantan are also in Sumatra, including the orangutan and elephant. But surprisingly in Kalimantan today there aren’t any tigers,” Dinata said. “Dayak people’s recognition of the existence of tigers in the past would be an interesting thing to study.”

On the other hand, many of the sources of scientific findings in the past century are by Western researchers — it’s very rare to get information from local communities to be summarized in the scientific record. For example, findings that the Sumatran rhinoceros (Dicerorhinus sumatrensis) might exist in Kalimantan were questioned by some researchers. Only after evidence such as horns and tracks were found did experts begin to seriously explore the existence of this species. As a result, experts finally met the Sumatran rhino in Borneo.

Maybe at a historical moment the tracks of a Bornean tiger will be revealed based on information from local communities. Who knows?
https://news.mongabay.com/2016/11/was-bo...of-tigers/
by Taufik Wijaya on 7 November 2016 | Translated by Philip Jacobson

----------------------------------

Recently I came across an article about Bornean Tiger written by a local bornean guy. very interesting but of course it's in indonesian, you can use translate if you want to read the whole story.
https://folksofdayak.wordpress.com/2018/...tau-fakta/
it is said there were/are tigers in Borneo. The indigenous peoples of Borneo, commonly known as Dayak called the big cat "Haramaong, Remaong, Lencau" etc. and they know the larger striped cat is different from smaller clouded leopard which they called "Kule".
according to the writter, he/she has some Bornean tiger's canines which is much larger than their Sumatran's cousin. unfortunately he/she dind't post the comparison picture. The Dayak people also made "Besunung", one of their traditional clothes from real Bornean tiger skins.

*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author



@GrizzlyClaw and @tigerluver i need your help once again to determine the originality of these allegedly Bornean tiger canines.

*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


let say if these canines and skins were real, some people suggest they probably got those stuff from trading with sumatran, javan or malayan people where tigers existed there. but i highly doubt that, as the indigenous peoples of Borneo are forest dweller peoples. They live completely from their jungle, their home, the only resources they knew for so long. until fairly recently these people hardly knew about money, let alone trading with foreign people.

Here's some sighting reports from my quick search. May 2017
https://www.borneonews.co.id/berita/6344...da-harimau
witness insisted they saw a tiger not a clouded leopard because the animal is larger and longer, and it's a striped cat not spotted. the animal's skin is as clean and soft as carpet, they added. 

from March 2018
https://www.indopos.co.id/read/2018/03/0...uk-sekolah

*This image is copyright of its original author

the authority checking animals pugmark

Interestingly, all of the story above coming from the same area, more or less around the yellow circle in the map below

*This image is copyright of its original author


what do you think guys? is this false alarm or have we been missing something here?

another interesting read
https://www.researchgate.net/publication...cal_record
https://www.researchgate.net/publication..._existence

@tigerluver About your new thread, we already have this one.


So that section is an article section, meant to be a stand alone piece. I was going to link the thread here so thank you for doing that.
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