There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
I think its just what happens when you unify a coalition of male cats who all think the same, and are bred to fight and take over. Beatty had a group called the four brothers lead by Caesar the lion. Every animal in the arena was scared stiff when they entered it. The four brothers would take on all the cats at once till they cleared out the arena, then they would turn on each other. Beatty likened them to dictators. So there seems to be something in the lion hard-wired to take over and control.
I never compare captive to wild, its a completely different dynamic.
Plenty of coalition males don't kill the females and they are no different than the Mapogos. A lion is a lion, there are other extenuating factors that contribute to unusual behavior, I believe.
12-08-2015, 12:02 AM( This post was last modified: 12-29-2015, 12:35 PM by LionKiss )
(07-03-2015, 07:24 PM)vizions Wrote: I want to talk about the Mapogo's descendants for this post. In terms of numbers, there's a not a lot of them: there's the 3 Ottawa females, the 4 Mangheni females, and possibly the 2 Ottawa males who went into the KNP in 2012. For such a strong coalition, those numbers aren't impressive.
But then, we have to talk about the "dark" side of thoses numbers: the impact of humans.
Not a lof of people know this but the Mapogos had 5 sons in the Sand River Pride in 2009, who were around 2 years old~. Early 2009, the fences of the western sector were washed away by heavy rains and the Sand river pride (2 females adults and the 5 subadults males) broke out of the Sabi Sands reserve. The authorities decided to shot down the entire pride, and the entire pride was wiped out (one male got away but didn't survive alone). Can't imagine how awesome if those 5 had make it to maturity....
Credits to Drew Abrahamson for this sad picture...
*This image is copyright of its original author
For the Ximhungwe pride, there was a lot of misfortune due to humans also. 4 subadults ate a rabid dog and had to be put down by the authorities. One Xim lionness was killed by a snare; her 2 sons weren't accepted by the others lionness and died as a result.
Dreadlocks was a casualty of poaching also. There could be also others things that never became public and we'll never know about it.
I'm not trying to blame the Sabi Sands reserve who are doing their best to protect their wildlife, they are not the one to blame for this record.
big hypocrisy by the authorities there,
the rule is: "NO HUMAN INTERVENTION", nonsense!!
in this case the rain was just an excuse to kill the entire Mopogo Bloodline, especially the males.
I am new here, just got registered with the interest to find out more about the Mpogos, were they so strong that even humans wanted to get rid of them?
Very naive approach, we humans are thrilled by stories like those of Mapogos, and they are one reason I want to visit those parks sometime in the future,
I want to see the Lions in their natural place and grow with no human intervention otherwise I visit the zoo.
12-08-2015, 12:24 AM( This post was last modified: 12-08-2015, 12:24 AM by Pckts )
Its very sad, I don't think this idea "were they so strong that even humans wanted to get rid of them?" holds any water though.
Unfortunately, no matter how strong the wild animal is, it has already been shown that we are to much for them. Not our brawn, our brain. Its sad that we feel so insecure that we kill them though, that is just weakness and fear which is never a good combination.
While I am 1,000,000% with you on the idea that Human Intervention is the worst thing we can do to help these animals grow, its also the best thing.
Unfortunately they would never need our intervention if we stopped taking their land, hunting them and destroying the environment but since we do all of those things, they need us. Not in terms of a Zoo, but in terms of laws protecting them, stopping the destruction of their lands and removing the ones responsible for hunting them down.
Sad but unfortunately its the way of the world we have created.
12-08-2015, 01:11 AM( This post was last modified: 12-08-2015, 01:12 AM by LionKiss )
No, no I didn't mean that the Mapogos was a threat to humans but the authorities there probably would not like to have too much warfare between the different lion coalitions,
during the Mapogo reign the population of the Lions was dropped and there was a steady unrest way more than usual.
and by killing the Mapogo descendants they wanted to make sure that there will be no big trouble in the future, just my opinion of course.
But were all those Mapogo cubs a real threat? and if yes to whom? could not they dart them with anesthetic and take them back it was only 7-8 of them.
It is absolutely sad that no male mapogo cub survived, there should be quite a lot of them when Mr T and KT moved to the Eastern Kingdom but all of them have beem killed by the 4 Majingilane.
I don't think it had anything to do with that.
Apparently, when the fences were taken down, the pride was chased by the Mapogos toward the people's land, were they killed cattle. After being herded some other times back into the reserve, the Mapogos kept chasing them.
Then it was "decided", I believe by local authorities (possibly corrupt authorities) to kill them. But no, it had nothing to do with the warfare between coalitions. After all, it's their way of life.
(12-08-2015, 01:27 AM)Majingilane Wrote: I don't think it had anything to do with that.
Apparently, when the fences were taken down, the pride was chased by the Mapogos toward the people's land, were they killed cattle. After being herded some other times back into the reserve, the Mapogos kept chasing them.
Then it was "decided", I believe by local authorities (possibly corrupt authorities) to kill them. But no, it had nothing to do with the warfare between coalitions. After all, it's their way of life.
The area where they are chased out of, is there not another place they could of gone?
I just imagine africa as being extremely vast, hard for me to understand that there wasn't any where else for them to go?
I know how they treat cattle killers there though, they aren't very forgiving of them unfortunately.
12-08-2015, 02:50 AM( This post was last modified: 12-08-2015, 02:53 AM by LionKiss )
is this the last photo of Mr. T, did he die at this spot we see in the photo?
as far as i can tell he is stil alive in this photo, his head is up, but he is dying.
he could not go far anyway, he was immobilized there, right?
and the question is: What happened to his body? did someone bury him?
Quote:LionKiss:
but why the Mapogos chased them, were not they their "family", why did they want to attack them? it was their cubs, right?
When sub-adults are reaching adulthood, the males chase them. They percieve them as competitors now. They still recognize them as sons, I think, but in that stage it's very different.
Quote:Pckts:
The area where they are chased out of, is there not another place they could of gone?
I just imagine africa as being extremely vast, hard for me to understand that there wasn't any where else for them to go?
I'm not quite sure about that. But from the little I've read about it, apparently, people live there, outside the borders of the reserve. Inb fact, maybe that is why there is need at all for a reserve. To the other side, the east, there is the Kruger National Park that is immense, but it's in a different country and boundaries must be respected by the people. And anyway, subadults thrown into that area would have probably been chased and killed by the dominant coalitions that would see them, again, as competitors.
Quote:LionKiss:
and the question is: What happened to his body? did someone bury him?
I think so, yes. I don't know who did it or where, but I read they buried him.
12-08-2015, 06:32 PM( This post was last modified: 12-08-2015, 06:35 PM by LionKiss )
(12-08-2015, 03:19 AM)Majingilan Wrote: I think so, yes. I don't know who did it or where, but I read they buried him.
thanks for the info,
are those two in the photo, Mr.T (left) and Kinky Tail (right), I extracted this frame from a video on utube which was about the Mapogos and the Noch boys.
12-10-2015, 05:17 PM( This post was last modified: 12-10-2015, 09:05 PM by Tshokwane )
(12-09-2015, 06:19 PM)LionKiss Wrote:
(07-12-2015, 08:00 AM)Majingilane Wrote:
*This image is copyright of its original author
is it confirm that this is an original photo of Mr. T and KT?
Yeah, thanks, didn't notice until now.
What I was saying is that I don't think this two cubs playing are Kinky tail and Mr.T, merely two cubs that represent them.
