The Caspian Tiger (Panthera tigris virgata)

[Wolverine]

As long as I know captive Caspian tigers were breeding during 60's and 70's in Moscow zoo, but the director of the zoo - shame on him - decided to stop breeding them and shifted to Amur tigers. If not that disastrous decision now we could still have pure captive Caspian in the world. In same time during 60's and 70's Amur tigers were also on the bring of extinction with only 100-200 of them left in the wild so maybe we should not judge the director too harsh. Reply

[Jimmy]

@Wolverine if so then there would probably have been tough competition between dholes and wolves, how might have they coexisted, I think it would have been like coyotes and wolves but dholes probably lived with larger packs and possed a real thteat, maybe it was like those between Spotted hyena and African wild dogs!!! Reply

[Wolverine]

Unlike coyotes dholes are big game hunters and make larger packs. I would compare coyotes with jackals, not with dholes. 
In same time there is a big difference between smallish tropical wolves who could coexist with dholes (and tigers) and large and powerfull Nordic wolves which pursue dholes and are in same time aggressively pursued by Amur tigers as competitors. Reply

[Jimmy]

Yeah that's the thing, i took coyote only interms of size probably their relationship was closer to that between spotted hyena and wild dogs in terms of pack size and body mass ratios, but wolves are more co-ordinated, agile and fast themselves but they don't have as devastating bite as a spotted hyena and both being top canines targeting the same prey make things a lot interesting, they would try to jump up the hierarchy and could challenge each other time to time. It would look epic, a large Ussuri dhole pack against slightly small pack of Ussuri wolves trying to establish dominance over a kill are sidelined while a large bear or a tiger claims the kill. Reply

[BorneanTiger]

(12-25-2018, 03:13 AM)Wolverine Wrote: As long as I know captive Caspian tigers were breeding during 60's and 70's in Moscow zoo, but the director of the zoo - shame on him - decided to stop breeding them and shifted to Amur tigers. If not that disastrous decision now we could still have pure captive Caspian in the world. In same time during 60's and 70's Amur tigers were also on the bring of extinction with only 100-200 of them left in the wild so maybe we should not judge the director too harsh.

Do you have a reference for this? I have references for Caspian tigers from Iran and the Caucasus being bred in Germany: 

Caucasian tiger in Berlin Zoo, 1899: https://web.archive.org/web/200708240914...ger-13.htm

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Soraya the Persian tigress in Hagenbeck Zoo, 1955–1969: http://www.catsg.org/fileadmin/fileshari...n_Iran.pdf

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But not in any Russian zoo. Interestingly however, there's another Russian zoo that came in the news for housing a big cat that's supposed to be lost in the wild: Novorsibirsk Zoo , which apparently had Cape lions, or descendants of a lion that was left behind a circus many years prior, before transferring them to a zoo in their natural home country of South Africa (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/monitor...007452.stm, http://www.aparchive.com/metadata/SOUTH-...52f6d011cc), so I wonder how many zoos or circuses in Russia or elsewhere had Caspian tigers? Reply

[Wolverine]

(12-25-2018, 12:51 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote: Do you have a reference for this? I have references for Caspian tigers from Iran and the Caucasus being bred in Germany: 

Yes, but I have to correct myself, it was in 1920's-1930's. In Moscow zoo lived a Caspian tigress "Tereza" , she was presented to Soviet ambassador in Iran in 1926 from Iranian authorities. Tereza lived 18 years. In the work "Caspian tiger - analysis of the current situation" by O. Tcaruk & U.Tcukin, p.17 is written shortly:

https://wwf.ru/upload/iblock/058/obzorny...zbruss.pdf

"Содержание в неволе В Московском зоопарке до конца 30-х годов жила ручная тигрица Тереза, подаренная нашему послу в Иране в 1926 году. Последний туранский тигр жил в Гамбурге до 1959 году. В 1978 году во время исламской революции в Тегеране в шахском зверинце были расстреляны последние животные этого подвида. "

Obviously at that time the director of Moscow was on crossroads - to breed Caspian tigers or to breed Amur tigers. Both subspecies at those times were on the edge, and he decided to continue with Amurs.

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*This image is copyright of its original author

Here Bornean Tiger is a 50 pages long "Program of Reintoduction of the tiger in Kazahstan", unfourtunately for you everything is in Russian:

https://wwf.ru/upload/iblock/c7e/tigerpr...5_russ.pdf Reply

[Wolverine]

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[BorneanTiger]

(12-27-2018, 06:18 AM)Wolverine Wrote:

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Where are these photos from? Reply

[Wolverine]

This tiger trophy is from the personal collection of Pyotr Semyonov-Tyan-Shansky (1827-1914) - a Russian explorer of Central Asia, he is most famous with his expeditions in the aria of Tyan-Shan mountains, so probably the tiger was shot in the aria of Tyan-Shan, now its in the house museum of Pyotr Semyonovich in St Petersburg:
https://www.rgo.ru/ru/article/po-sledam-...edovatelya



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyotr_Semy...an-Shansky

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Concerning the photo from the bottom (post #22) I'm not sure is it from Caspian or Bengal tiger so decided to delete it.

Painting of Caspian tiger:

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[Lycaon]

Here is a rare photo of a living caspian tiger 

credits go to mohammad Farhadinia

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[Lycaon]

Here is another live caspian

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credits to Mohammad Fardhianina Reply

[Lycaon]

Yet another photo of a live caspian tiger, probably in the moscow zoo

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[Wolverine]

(12-25-2018, 11:08 AM)Jimmy Wrote:  It would look epic, a large Ussuri dhole pack against slightly small pack of Ussuri wolves trying to establish dominance over a kill are sidelined while a large bear or a tiger claims the kill.

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[Jimmy]

(01-14-2019, 11:53 AM)Wolverine Wrote:

(12-25-2018, 11:08 AM)Jimmy Wrote:  It would look epic, a large Ussuri dhole pack against slightly small pack of Ussuri wolves trying to establish dominance over a kill are sidelined while a large bear or a tiger claims the kill.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Where did you find this, large packs of both would look awesome, did it have a backstory or something, this look like might have been in children's book, would love to read what went on?? Reply

[Rishi]

A painting i found once... Caspian?

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