There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
(01-27-2022, 11:34 PM)SpinoRex Wrote: I have this picture here. I took a pic from a study when i was looking at some other study topics. Im trying to find the study but for now i have just a picture. Here is a lion with a Claw length of 8.1 cm using pixel scaling. Was already quoted to be a large one...
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Intersting as it is, there is no document, chapter or study, that I am aware, that mentions the length of the claws in lions. There are some mentions in webpages with no references, but that is all.
So I will not be surprised if the claws of lions reach the 8 cm over the curve. In fact, it seems that only Mazák took the patience to measured the claws of the tigers, which reach up to 10 cm over the curves, and some of his animals were of great size.
In this case, I think that 8 cm on the curve is a good size for the claw of a lion.
I was also surprised. Although I believe that some lions can achieve it. I have a total of 3-4 lion claws that particularly stand out. Also length alone doesnt cut it as the size will still vary and some claws are more curved.
This lion claw is besides his length also really strong and thick!
Length: 7 cm straight, 10.8 cm over curves Width: 5.7 cm
Quote:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
-2-
Quote:Length: 6.7 cm straight, 11.4 cm over curves Width: 5.4 cm
-3-
(Accurate estimate based on pixel scaling using the 5.8cm knife as reference). The lower claw is just around 4.9 cm long straight / 9.3 cm over curves Length: 6 cm, 10 cm over curves Width: 5.1 cm
All measurements shown are estimates and over the curves is flawed since claws wear down with age while the curvature and hood size aren’t effected by it.
We have 100s of verified measurements with actual measuring tools shown in the big cat claws thread.
I assume you’re Muhammad?
The measurements are not estimated. The first, second were definitely measured. The third was an "estimate" but easy to calculate because of the knife.
The user has set the curve length in the file as 5_8, which should mean 5.8 cm. The same is true for the curve measurements
No, I am not Muhammad. Do you mean the user who discussed this topic with you on Carnivora? I looked at the pictures there and did some research (The note on the pictures) and finally came to the above website i linked.
He gave wrong measurement as the picture was angled (the picture with the tape). I think he claimed the claw to be around 8cm
The sheath of the claw has been pulled from the knuckle bone, so it cannot be considered as the natural length.
(01-27-2022, 11:34 PM)SpinoRex Wrote: I have this picture here. I took a pic from a study when i was looking at some other study topics. Im trying to find the study but for now i have just a picture. Here is a lion with a Claw length of 8.1 cm using pixel scaling. Was already quoted to be a large one...
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Intersting as it is, there is no document, chapter or study, that I am aware, that mentions the length of the claws in lions. There are some mentions in webpages with no references, but that is all.
So I will not be surprised if the claws of lions reach the 8 cm over the curve. In fact, it seems that only Mazák took the patience to measured the claws of the tigers, which reach up to 10 cm over the curves, and some of his animals were of great size.
In this case, I think that 8 cm on the curve is a good size for the claw of a lion.
I was also surprised. Although I believe that some lions can achieve it. I have a total of 3-4 lion claws that particularly stand out. Also length alone doesnt cut it as the size will still vary and some claws are more curved.
This lion claw is besides his length also really strong and thick!
Length: 7 cm straight, 10.8 cm over curves Width: 5.7 cm
Quote:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
-2-
Quote:Length: 6.7 cm straight, 11.4 cm over curves Width: 5.4 cm
-3-
(Accurate estimate based on pixel scaling using the 5.8cm knife as reference). The lower claw is just around 4.9 cm long straight / 9.3 cm over curves Length: 6 cm, 10 cm over curves Width: 5.1 cm
All measurements shown are estimates and over the curves is flawed since claws wear down with age while the curvature and hood size aren’t effected by it.
We have 100s of verified measurements with actual measuring tools shown in the big cat claws thread.
I assume you’re Muhammad?
The measurements are not estimated. The first, second were definitely measured. The third was an "estimate" but easy to calculate because of the knife.
The user has set the curve length in the file as 5_8, which should mean 5.8 cm. The same is true for the curve measurements
No, I am not Muhammad. Do you mean the user who discussed this topic with you on Carnivora? I looked at the pictures there and did some research (The note on the pictures) and finally came to the above website i linked.
He gave wrong measurement as the picture was angled (the picture with the tape). I think he claimed the claw to be around 8cm
The sheath of the claw has been pulled from the knuckle bone, so it cannot be considered as the natural length.
(08-04-2015, 10:57 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote: A 17 inches fossilized skull of the Barbary lion, and I think we might re-evaluate the size of this animal, since it looks as large as the Cave lion.
I think that this as @GuateGojira here said, needs to be measured "in a straight line". Also, I suspect that this particular skull belongs to to an adult male from the wild. As @GuateGojira has mentioned, obviously, the Tower of London specimens were captive. Therefore, it is interesting to have a wild specimen.
Can you contact them to ask them to measure the skull "in a straight line"?
Thank you.
From Dinoland, it has been sold out many years ago, and you can contact the owner of this website.
BTW, the straight line is probably around 16 inches, and it obviously belonged to a wild male Barbary lion, so definitely much more robust those captive specimens.
I think it is a Barbary lion skull, it is almost identical to the Tower of London collection's skulls, except for the teeth, but I'm sure that's a result of how old the skull is.
01-28-2022, 06:21 PM( This post was last modified: 01-28-2022, 06:51 PM by GuateGojira )
(01-28-2022, 02:59 PM)acutidens150 Wrote: I think it is a Barbary lion skull, it is almost identical to the Tower of London collection's skulls, except for the teeth, but I'm sure that's a result of how old the skull is.
Nop, it is not. In fact, I was checking the skull in the original page it it looks more like an American "lion" than to a modern lion at all. Also, the information that they share about the skull, the guy from the webpage says that is 100,000 years ago! How in hell could he got a Barbary lion skull from 100,000 years ago? Which are the posibilities? Check the image:
*This image is copyright of its original author
How he can say that this "subspecies" evolved at 100,000 years ago and latter he says that this particular skull is also from 100,000 years ago? There are no Paleontological studies in Morocco or anything around that area, not focused in Pleistocene mammals at least, so this story do not make sence and is certainly false. Also, he claim that Barbary lions were of the same size as American cave "lions", that is a nonesense and support my view that IF this skull is real, that is from Panthera atrox (and a small one, as the length that he report is incorrectly taken), again IF is real.
The more I check this entire history and check the specimen, the more I see that all this looks like an scam. That huge collection of "fossils", how he get them? Who is (or are) his scientific advisor? Did he has calibration methods and devices to check the age of the specimens?
We need to make this questions about the specimens from this type of webpages. Like I said, if you check the entire story about how he got the skull, it looks to good to be real. Please read it, the link is in the upper part of the image.
01-28-2022, 06:41 PM( This post was last modified: 01-28-2022, 06:56 PM by GuateGojira )
(01-28-2022, 03:54 AM)Pckts Wrote: It’s not a matter of taking the word or not but understanding if it’s over the curves or not, this is very important. The odds of none of the captive Amurs used not being close to the same size as Mazaks Tigers are slim, the data base is quite large.
The largest captive Amurs on record would be Gamin and Kistora, I wonder if Craig has their claw measurements.
I clearly said that the measurement is on the curve of the claw, many times. Did you read that part?
To confirm, in the book "Der Tiger", page 30 (I have the book of 2013, which is the reprint of the edition of 1983, in German), he says "The claw length can reach 80 to 100 mm measured on the outer curve". He put the same in his document of 1981:
*This image is copyright of its original author
So yes, he did measured claws of tigers, and the measuremnt was taken over the curve, like I said before.
I don't think that many captive Amur tigers reached the sizes of "Amur" the large tiger of Prague, that was a real giant. Gamin and Kistora were heavy and tall, but are they large overall too, with large paws? Did you know they measurements and how they compare with the two tigers called "Amur" from Prague and Duisburg zoo? That will be interesting to know.
(01-28-2022, 03:54 AM)Pckts Wrote: It’s not a matter of taking the word or not but understanding if it’s over the curves or not, this is very important. The odds of none of the captive Amurs used not being close to the same size as Mazaks Tigers are slim, the data base is quite large.
The largest captive Amurs on record would be Gamin and Kistora, I wonder if Craig has their claw measurements.
I clearly said that the measurement is on the curve of the claw, many times. Did you read that part?
To confirm, in the book "Der Tiger", page 30 (I have the book of 2013, which is the reprint of the edition of 1983, in German), he says "The claw length can reach 80 to 100 mm measured on the outer curve". He put the same in his document of 1981:
*This image is copyright of its original author
So yes, he did measured claws of tigers, and the measuremnt was taken over the curve, like I said before.
I don't think that many captive Amur tigers reached the sizes of "Amur" the large tiger of Prague, that was a real giant. Gamin and Kistora were heavy, but are they large overall too? Did you know they measurements and how they compare with the two tigers called "Amur" from Prague and Duisburg zoo? That will be interesting to know.
Maybe it got lost in the translation but I didn’t see you clearly state it.
Regardless, we agree, it’s over the curves.
In regards to Gamin and Kistora, I know Kistora was actually taller than the Duisburg male. Kistora being 44” at the shoulder and Gamin had a 14.1cm pugmark.
Unfortunately the details of protocol are lacking but Craig is generally open to share if asked.
Larger African Lion claws they were selling at the time about 20 years back measured 10 centimeters around the outside curve
Attached pictures of the large one I have here in my collection
(01-29-2022, 03:17 AM)epaiva Wrote: Larger African Lion claws they were selling at the time about 20 years back measured 10 centimeters around the outside curve
Attached pictures of the large one I have here in my collection
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
I think it is also slightly pulled from the knuckle bone.
(01-29-2022, 03:17 AM)epaiva Wrote: Larger African Lion claws they were selling at the time about 20 years back measured 10 centimeters around the outside curve
Attached pictures of the large one I have here in my collection
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
I wonder how much those 7-8cm claws are over the curves?
(01-29-2022, 03:17 AM)epaiva Wrote: Larger African Lion claws they were selling at the time about 20 years back measured 10 centimeters around the outside curve
Attached pictures of the large one I have here in my collection
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
I wonder how much those 7-8cm claws are over the curves?
That completely depends. Based on the infos from the lion claws it should be definetely over 10cm.
I found some informations of (Indochinese/bengals?) tigers. I will just post the normal pictures because the websites include some really hard pictures. The following images below may be upsetting to some viewers.
(01-29-2022, 03:17 AM)epaiva Wrote: Larger African Lion claws they were selling at the time about 20 years back measured 10 centimeters around the outside curve
Attached pictures of the large one I have here in my collection
(01-29-2022, 03:17 AM)epaiva Wrote: Larger African Lion claws they were selling at the time about 20 years back measured 10 centimeters around the outside curve
Attached pictures of the large one I have here in my collection
