There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
(05-25-2022, 08:02 PM)LonePredator Wrote: But that does not seem to be the case here which means either the Tiger is smaller than average or the Bear is bigger than usual or both.
There's nothing to scale that can give us an idea to estimate their size so we will never know about these two specimens, here the tiger is longer in TBL but the bear is taller and looks considerably heavier, that's all it matters
Not true! Now look at this, the Bear is 9.3 units in HB length while the Tiger is only 9 units AND the Bear’s neck is not even straightened out which means the real HB length of the Bear would be even longer so this Bear is clearly longer than this Amur Tiger.
*This image is copyright of its original author
In reality, the average Amur Tigers are supposed to be longer than average Ussuri Brown Bears but this Bear is longer than this Tiger which means either this Tiger is a small one or the Bear is a big one or both.
The Bear would only be 9 units and that's including his puffy fur while the Tiger would also be 9 with less fur. You must take into account the Tigers head is tilted away from the picture, when it's straightened like the Bears the length would increase. You can also see more articulation in the Tigers neck, but both are very close in length but still I'd give the advantage to the Tiger in HBL when measured between the pegs.
The Bear’s head is also lowered down. And if the Bear straightens it’s head, it’s length will increase by upto 0.8 units. The Tiger’s length would only increase about 0.5 units if the Tiger straightens his head.
And the Tiger is only 8 units. The puffy fur does not really matter because we know that the literature figures for the length of the Bear were also taken with ‘the puffy fur’. So that fur is irrelevant.
But his neck is fully extended, remember, between the pegs the animal is laid flat and straightened but not extended. The Tiger on the other hand has shortened it's neck and turned it's head. Puffy fur matters for your comparison because you're using the outline of it to determine length where if they were measured correctly the body length would be pressed flat against the skin not the fur.
The Tiger is 8.75 units with a shortened neck and head turned to the side *Notice the nose still creeps over and the rump goes past another .5 unit, the Tiger certainly would be slightly over 9
No, when the measurements are taken ‘between pegs’ the neck is fully extended and the head is held streched out straight so obviously this Bear would be about 9.7 units when you take its estimated ‘between pegs’ length.
And the Tiger is only 8.4 units in that pose and NOT 8.75 like you said so when you strech him out, he’ll be no more than 9.2 units max while the Bear could be upto 9.8 units.
The Bear here is obviously longer than the Tiger. And this particular Tiger has a very slim and slender build so it’s very likely that the Tiger is smaller than an average adult Amur male.
I don’t understand what is making you deny the obvious here, perhaps it is because you are more biased towards Bears as suggested by some of your previous posts.
That's far too much of an exaggeration.
As it stands now, both are about 9 units. Again, the tigers Rump extends more than half a unit and it's nose is about a 1/4 unit, so it's easily 8.75 but most likely more. You claiming "the obvious" is your personal bias not mine. I'm literally in a debate defending the bears prowess against the Tiger so keep your baseless acquisitions to yourself.
It's pretty simple so one last Time..
The end of the Bears starts exactly at unit 1 *that is the fur, not the skin* and the Bears nose is just short of Unit 9
The Tigers rump starts .5 a unit past where the bears fur starts and it's nose is past Unit 9 by about 1/4 a Unit. So, reducing the Bears fur, both animals are about 9 units or just short. The Tiger has it's head turned to the left, hence why you cannot see his forehead or rostrum length as well as his neck turned to accommodate the full turn of his head. The bear has his neck fully extended but his head turned down, but lay him flat and his neck shortens when not need to support a low hanging neck. Thus his total length will not change nearly as much as the Tigers, so it's fairly obvious the Tiger is at least as long but most likely longer.
Why are you lying now? The Tiger is obviously only 0.4 units at the end of the hip in the last block and the nose tip in the final block is only 0.1 units. Anyone can clearly see that but the fact you are denying it shows you’re biased and I find no use in continuing this when you are denying something that you can see so clearly.
I do not feel the need to correct you either because anyone who sees this can see it very clearly but only you are obviously denying something that you can see very clearly with your own eyes.
(05-25-2022, 08:02 PM)LonePredator Wrote: But that does not seem to be the case here which means either the Tiger is smaller than average or the Bear is bigger than usual or both.
There's nothing to scale that can give us an idea to estimate their size so we will never know about these two specimens, here the tiger is longer in TBL but the bear is taller and looks considerably heavier, that's all it matters
Not true! Now look at this, the Bear is 9.3 units in HB length while the Tiger is only 9 units AND the Bear’s neck is not even straightened out which means the real HB length of the Bear would be even longer so this Bear is clearly longer than this Amur Tiger.
*This image is copyright of its original author
In reality, the average Amur Tigers are supposed to be longer than average Ussuri Brown Bears but this Bear is longer than this Tiger which means either this Tiger is a small one or the Bear is a big one or both.
The Bear would only be 9 units and that's including his puffy fur while the Tiger would also be 9 with less fur. You must take into account the Tigers head is tilted away from the picture, when it's straightened like the Bears the length would increase. You can also see more articulation in the Tigers neck, but both are very close in length but still I'd give the advantage to the Tiger in HBL when measured between the pegs.
The Bear’s head is also lowered down. And if the Bear straightens it’s head, it’s length will increase by upto 0.8 units. The Tiger’s length would only increase about 0.5 units if the Tiger straightens his head.
And the Tiger is only 8 units. The puffy fur does not really matter because we know that the literature figures for the length of the Bear were also taken with ‘the puffy fur’. So that fur is irrelevant.
But his neck is fully extended, remember, between the pegs the animal is laid flat and straightened but not extended. The Tiger on the other hand has shortened it's neck and turned it's head. Puffy fur matters for your comparison because you're using the outline of it to determine length where if they were measured correctly the body length would be pressed flat against the skin not the fur.
The Tiger is 8.75 units with a shortened neck and head turned to the side *Notice the nose still creeps over and the rump goes past another .5 unit, the Tiger certainly would be slightly over 9
No, when the measurements are taken ‘between pegs’ the neck is fully extended and the head is held streched out straight so obviously this Bear would be about 9.7 units when you take its estimated ‘between pegs’ length.
And the Tiger is only 8.4 units in that pose and NOT 8.75 like you said so when you strech him out, he’ll be no more than 9.2 units max while the Bear could be upto 9.8 units.
The Bear here is obviously longer than the Tiger. And this particular Tiger has a very slim and slender build so it’s very likely that the Tiger is smaller than an average adult Amur male.
I don’t understand what is making you deny the obvious here, perhaps it is because you are more biased towards Bears as suggested by some of your previous posts.
That's far too much of an exaggeration.
As it stands now, both are about 9 units. Again, the tigers Rump extends more than half a unit and it's nose is about a 1/4 unit, so it's easily 8.75 but most likely more. You claiming "the obvious" is your personal bias not mine. I'm literally in a debate defending the bears prowess against the Tiger so keep your baseless acquisitions to yourself.
It's pretty simple so one last Time..
The end of the Bears starts exactly at unit 1 *that is the fur, not the skin* and the Bears nose is just short of Unit 9
The Tigers rump starts .5 a unit past where the bears fur starts and it's nose is past Unit 9 by about 1/4 a Unit. So, reducing the Bears fur, both animals are about 9 units or just short. The Tiger has it's head turned to the left, hence why you cannot see his forehead or rostrum length as well as his neck turned to accommodate the full turn of his head. The bear has his neck fully extended but his head turned down, but lay him flat and his neck shortens when not need to support a low hanging neck. Thus his total length will not change nearly as much as the Tigers, so it's fairly obvious the Tiger is at least as long but most likely longer.
Why are you lying now? The Tiger is obviously only 0.4 units at the end of the hip in the last block and the nose tip in the final block is only 0.1 units. Anyone can clearly see that but the fact you are denying it shows you’re biased and I find no use in continuing this when you are denying something that you can see so clearly.
I do not feel the need to correct you either because anyone who sees this can see it very clearly but only you are obviously denying something that you can see very clearly with your own eyes.
"lying?"
I literally showed you exactly where they started and the corresponding math that goes with it. You tried to downgrade one and were wrong, simple as that. Keep your immature sensitivity out of it with your personal attacks.
(05-25-2022, 08:02 PM)LonePredator Wrote: But that does not seem to be the case here which means either the Tiger is smaller than average or the Bear is bigger than usual or both.
There's nothing to scale that can give us an idea to estimate their size so we will never know about these two specimens, here the tiger is longer in TBL but the bear is taller and looks considerably heavier, that's all it matters
Not true! Now look at this, the Bear is 9.3 units in HB length while the Tiger is only 9 units AND the Bear’s neck is not even straightened out which means the real HB length of the Bear would be even longer so this Bear is clearly longer than this Amur Tiger.
*This image is copyright of its original author
In reality, the average Amur Tigers are supposed to be longer than average Ussuri Brown Bears but this Bear is longer than this Tiger which means either this Tiger is a small one or the Bear is a big one or both.
The Bear would only be 9 units and that's including his puffy fur while the Tiger would also be 9 with less fur. You must take into account the Tigers head is tilted away from the picture, when it's straightened like the Bears the length would increase. You can also see more articulation in the Tigers neck, but both are very close in length but still I'd give the advantage to the Tiger in HBL when measured between the pegs.
The Bear’s head is also lowered down. And if the Bear straightens it’s head, it’s length will increase by upto 0.8 units. The Tiger’s length would only increase about 0.5 units if the Tiger straightens his head.
And the Tiger is only 8 units. The puffy fur does not really matter because we know that the literature figures for the length of the Bear were also taken with ‘the puffy fur’. So that fur is irrelevant.
But his neck is fully extended, remember, between the pegs the animal is laid flat and straightened but not extended. The Tiger on the other hand has shortened it's neck and turned it's head. Puffy fur matters for your comparison because you're using the outline of it to determine length where if they were measured correctly the body length would be pressed flat against the skin not the fur.
The Tiger is 8.75 units with a shortened neck and head turned to the side *Notice the nose still creeps over and the rump goes past another .5 unit, the Tiger certainly would be slightly over 9
No, when the measurements are taken ‘between pegs’ the neck is fully extended and the head is held streched out straight so obviously this Bear would be about 9.7 units when you take its estimated ‘between pegs’ length.
And the Tiger is only 8.4 units in that pose and NOT 8.75 like you said so when you strech him out, he’ll be no more than 9.2 units max while the Bear could be upto 9.8 units.
The Bear here is obviously longer than the Tiger. And this particular Tiger has a very slim and slender build so it’s very likely that the Tiger is smaller than an average adult Amur male.
I don’t understand what is making you deny the obvious here, perhaps it is because you are more biased towards Bears as suggested by some of your previous posts.
That's far too much of an exaggeration.
As it stands now, both are about 9 units. Again, the tigers Rump extends more than half a unit and it's nose is about a 1/4 unit, so it's easily 8.75 but most likely more. You claiming "the obvious" is your personal bias not mine. I'm literally in a debate defending the bears prowess against the Tiger so keep your baseless acquisitions to yourself.
It's pretty simple so one last Time..
The end of the Bears starts exactly at unit 1 *that is the fur, not the skin* and the Bears nose is just short of Unit 9
The Tigers rump starts .5 a unit past where the bears fur starts and it's nose is past Unit 9 by about 1/4 a Unit. So, reducing the Bears fur, both animals are about 9 units or just short. The Tiger has it's head turned to the left, hence why you cannot see his forehead or rostrum length as well as his neck turned to accommodate the full turn of his head. The bear has his neck fully extended but his head turned down, but lay him flat and his neck shortens when not need to support a low hanging neck. Thus his total length will not change nearly as much as the Tigers, so it's fairly obvious the Tiger is at least as long but most likely longer.
Why are you lying now? The Tiger is obviously only 0.4 units at the end of the hip in the last block and the nose tip in the final block is only 0.1 units. Anyone can clearly see that but the fact you are denying it shows you’re biased and I find no use in continuing this when you are denying something that you can see so clearly.
I do not feel the need to correct you either because anyone who sees this can see it very clearly but only you are obviously denying something that you can see very clearly with your own eyes.
"lying?"
I literally showed you exactly where they started and the corresponding math that goes with it. You tried to downgrade one and were wrong, simple as that. Keep your immature sensitivity out of it with your personal attacks.
You said the end of the face in the picture is taking 0.25 length of the corresponding block which is obviously not true and when something is not true, then it’s a lie.
(05-25-2022, 08:10 PM)AndresVida Wrote: There's nothing to scale that can give us an idea to estimate their size so we will never know about these two specimens, here the tiger is longer in TBL but the bear is taller and looks considerably heavier, that's all it matters
Not true! Now look at this, the Bear is 9.3 units in HB length while the Tiger is only 9 units AND the Bear’s neck is not even straightened out which means the real HB length of the Bear would be even longer so this Bear is clearly longer than this Amur Tiger.
*This image is copyright of its original author
In reality, the average Amur Tigers are supposed to be longer than average Ussuri Brown Bears but this Bear is longer than this Tiger which means either this Tiger is a small one or the Bear is a big one or both.
The Bear would only be 9 units and that's including his puffy fur while the Tiger would also be 9 with less fur. You must take into account the Tigers head is tilted away from the picture, when it's straightened like the Bears the length would increase. You can also see more articulation in the Tigers neck, but both are very close in length but still I'd give the advantage to the Tiger in HBL when measured between the pegs.
The Bear’s head is also lowered down. And if the Bear straightens it’s head, it’s length will increase by upto 0.8 units. The Tiger’s length would only increase about 0.5 units if the Tiger straightens his head.
And the Tiger is only 8 units. The puffy fur does not really matter because we know that the literature figures for the length of the Bear were also taken with ‘the puffy fur’. So that fur is irrelevant.
But his neck is fully extended, remember, between the pegs the animal is laid flat and straightened but not extended. The Tiger on the other hand has shortened it's neck and turned it's head. Puffy fur matters for your comparison because you're using the outline of it to determine length where if they were measured correctly the body length would be pressed flat against the skin not the fur.
The Tiger is 8.75 units with a shortened neck and head turned to the side *Notice the nose still creeps over and the rump goes past another .5 unit, the Tiger certainly would be slightly over 9
No, when the measurements are taken ‘between pegs’ the neck is fully extended and the head is held streched out straight so obviously this Bear would be about 9.7 units when you take its estimated ‘between pegs’ length.
And the Tiger is only 8.4 units in that pose and NOT 8.75 like you said so when you strech him out, he’ll be no more than 9.2 units max while the Bear could be upto 9.8 units.
The Bear here is obviously longer than the Tiger. And this particular Tiger has a very slim and slender build so it’s very likely that the Tiger is smaller than an average adult Amur male.
I don’t understand what is making you deny the obvious here, perhaps it is because you are more biased towards Bears as suggested by some of your previous posts.
That's far too much of an exaggeration.
As it stands now, both are about 9 units. Again, the tigers Rump extends more than half a unit and it's nose is about a 1/4 unit, so it's easily 8.75 but most likely more. You claiming "the obvious" is your personal bias not mine. I'm literally in a debate defending the bears prowess against the Tiger so keep your baseless acquisitions to yourself.
It's pretty simple so one last Time..
The end of the Bears starts exactly at unit 1 *that is the fur, not the skin* and the Bears nose is just short of Unit 9
The Tigers rump starts .5 a unit past where the bears fur starts and it's nose is past Unit 9 by about 1/4 a Unit. So, reducing the Bears fur, both animals are about 9 units or just short. The Tiger has it's head turned to the left, hence why you cannot see his forehead or rostrum length as well as his neck turned to accommodate the full turn of his head. The bear has his neck fully extended but his head turned down, but lay him flat and his neck shortens when not need to support a low hanging neck. Thus his total length will not change nearly as much as the Tigers, so it's fairly obvious the Tiger is at least as long but most likely longer.
Why are you lying now? The Tiger is obviously only 0.4 units at the end of the hip in the last block and the nose tip in the final block is only 0.1 units. Anyone can clearly see that but the fact you are denying it shows you’re biased and I find no use in continuing this when you are denying something that you can see so clearly.
I do not feel the need to correct you either because anyone who sees this can see it very clearly but only you are obviously denying something that you can see very clearly with your own eyes.
"lying?"
I literally showed you exactly where they started and the corresponding math that goes with it. You tried to downgrade one and were wrong, simple as that. Keep your immature sensitivity out of it with your personal attacks.
You said the end of the face in the picture is taking 0.25 length of the corresponding block which is obviously not true and when something is not true, then it’s a lie.
You're literally calling me a liar over a minuscule difference over what .25 is yet you "lie" and say something like this
Quote:the Bear is 9.3 units in HB length
and you expect to be taken seriously?
Seems a bit hypocritical to me, doesn't it?
07-16-2022, 01:18 AM( This post was last modified: 07-16-2022, 01:19 AM by Twico5 )
(07-15-2022, 10:45 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(07-15-2022, 09:44 PM)Twico5 Wrote: Huge male jaguar and male cougar in brazil's atlantic forest
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
I'm actually more impressed with that Male Cougar. He could possibly be in the 60-70kg range which is very good for them in that region.
He looks young, his head is quite small and unimpressive. But yeah a 70kg cougar is large for a sub adult rainforest specimen like that one since that is not their preferred habitat. That jaguar is such a beast. You can tell he is just so powerful and dominant.
(07-15-2022, 09:44 PM)Twico5 Wrote: Huge male jaguar and male cougar in brazil's atlantic forest
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
I'm actually more impressed with that Male Cougar. He could possibly be in the 60-70kg range which is very good for them in that region.
He looks young, his head is quite small and unimpressive. But yeah a 70kg cougar is large for a sub adult rainforest specimen like that one since that is not their preferred habitat. That jaguar is such a beast. You can tell he is just so powerful and dominant.
Their heads are small, his frame is still impressive. The Jaguar seems to be fairly standard, if you have a link I’m sure he’s mentioned in the table since he’s collared.
07-16-2022, 06:12 AM( This post was last modified: 07-16-2022, 06:19 AM by Twico5 )
(07-16-2022, 05:13 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(07-16-2022, 01:18 AM)Twico5 Wrote:
(07-15-2022, 10:45 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(07-15-2022, 09:44 PM)Twico5 Wrote: Huge male jaguar and male cougar in brazil's atlantic forest
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
I'm actually more impressed with that Male Cougar. He could possibly be in the 60-70kg range which is very good for them in that region.
He looks young, his head is quite small and unimpressive. But yeah a 70kg cougar is large for a sub adult rainforest specimen like that one since that is not their preferred habitat. That jaguar is such a beast. You can tell he is just so powerful and dominant.
Their heads are small, his frame is still impressive. The Jaguar seems to be fairly standard, if you have a link I’m sure he’s mentioned in the table since he’s collared.
No name is given but the jag is this male here.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
I think i will stand by huge male jaguar instead of "standard". Doesnt look standard, looks like a huge male jaguar. The cougar on the other hand looks like a sub adult, its head is small. The dome of its head is not prominent like in an adult male puma. Atlantic forest pumas are not small. None of the adult males ive seen look like this and for all we know it could be a female puma.
07-16-2022, 07:35 AM( This post was last modified: 07-16-2022, 07:47 AM by Pckts )
(07-16-2022, 06:12 AM)Twico5 Wrote:
(07-16-2022, 05:13 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(07-16-2022, 01:18 AM)Twico5 Wrote:
(07-15-2022, 10:45 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(07-15-2022, 09:44 PM)Twico5 Wrote: Huge male jaguar and male cougar in brazil's atlantic forest
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
I'm actually more impressed with that Male Cougar. He could possibly be in the 60-70kg range which is very good for them in that region.
He looks young, his head is quite small and unimpressive. But yeah a 70kg cougar is large for a sub adult rainforest specimen like that one since that is not their preferred habitat. That jaguar is such a beast. You can tell he is just so powerful and dominant.
Their heads are small, his frame is still impressive. The Jaguar seems to be fairly standard, if you have a link I’m sure he’s mentioned in the table since he’s collared.
No name is given but the jag is this male here.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
I think i will stand by huge male jaguar instead of "standard". Doesnt look standard, looks like a huge male jaguar. The cougar on the other hand looks like a sub adult, its head is small. The dome of its head is not prominent like in an adult male puma. Atlantic forest pumas are not small. None of the adult males ive seen look like this and for all we know it could be a female puma.
It’s 100% a male Cougar https://www.instagram.com/tv/Ce7ANCwreht/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= And while it’s not quite adult it’s still a big male. The Jaguar is a standard male, and if it’s one of the same males we have on record from them it’s either 70kg or 71kg when captured. If that’s the case, the Puma is certainly not as large as I thought and the it’s more to do with the Jaguar being smaller.
(07-15-2022, 09:44 PM)Twico5 Wrote: Huge male jaguar and male cougar in brazil's atlantic forest
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
I'm actually more impressed with that Male Cougar. He could possibly be in the 60-70kg range which is very good for them in that region.
He looks young, his head is quite small and unimpressive. But yeah a 70kg cougar is large for a sub adult rainforest specimen like that one since that is not their preferred habitat. That jaguar is such a beast. You can tell he is just so powerful and dominant.
Their heads are small, his frame is still impressive. The Jaguar seems to be fairly standard, if you have a link I’m sure he’s mentioned in the table since he’s collared.
No name is given but the jag is this male here.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
I think i will stand by huge male jaguar instead of "standard". Doesnt look standard, looks like a huge male jaguar. The cougar on the other hand looks like a sub adult, its head is small. The dome of its head is not prominent like in an adult male puma. Atlantic forest pumas are not small. None of the adult males ive seen look like this and for all we know it could be a female puma.
It’s 100% a male Cougar https://www.instagram.com/tv/Ce7ANCwreht/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= And while it’s not quite adult it’s still a big male. The Jaguar is a standard male, and if it’s one of the same males we have on record from them it’s either 70kg or 71kg when captured. If that’s the case, the Puma is certainly not as large as I thought and the it’s more to do with the Jaguar being smaller.
Regardless of that jag's actual weight it clearly is a well fed healthy adult male you can tell because of its stomach. The puma is obviously still lighter too but its not an adult. It probably weighs 50-60 kilograms. We really dont have that many weights for atlantic forest pumas, but from what ive seen these pumas are the same size as the jaguars they co exist with and are probably only slightly lighter. This does not include SP pumas that tend to be really lightweight because they have no prey.
