There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
Did he post any actual kill? Even Bruce Kekule (an expert on Indochinese Leopards) posted a picture of a Leopard with a Sambar kill in Thailand.
@Pckts Have to agree. The Red River Hog is not that impressive. An Indian or Sri Lankan Leopard killing Wild Boars seems a bit more credible.
Also Wild Bovines are the most formidable prey item (outside of the pachyderms). For example, Lions have taken down Bull Elands single handedly and have occasionally taken down Bull Giraffe. On the other hand, Cape Buffalo Bulls are too formidable for a pride, let alone a single Lion.
A Leopard can take down animals that can reach and surpass 300 kg ( Sambar Stags, Okapi Cows, Zebra Stallions, Eland Cows etc.). However, they will avoid full grown adult Forest Buffalos and Water Buffalos. They take down subadults and the occasional small cow. The reason is that these Bovines have a distinct anatomy from the goofy deer or antelope.
There was just a case in Londolozi, where a lioness killed a big adult cape buffalo bull. So saying, that it would be too much for a single lion is not quite as it is. Not easy and for sure demands a confident lion with experience. But not impossible.
If something more about lions and cape buffalos, make reply in Lion predation thread.
Some Sri Lankan Boar can be more impressive than either Red River hog or Warthog but Wild Boar come in many shapes and sizes, large individuals are few and far between but that holds true with any animal.
On Gorilla predation: Apparently they do which is impressive but even a large Silver back isn't extraordinary in body weight compared to other herbivores Leopards can take.
But I'd imagine Leopards prey on smaller individuals much more often.
The following 1 user Likes Pckts's post:1 user Likes Pckts's post • Sully
(08-21-2019, 12:10 PM)Luipaard Wrote: Becouse as we know, larger leopards are more capable of taking on heavy prey which is why I bolded this part:
Quote:Ecologically, their are certainly the apex predator in our closed forest systems here, as you state, and commonly used prey species are large. Males predominantly killed red river hogs in my dense forest sites, while in forest-savanna mosaics like northern Lope young forest buffalo become an important prey item seasonally. Gorilla and chimp are also regularly taken at all sites.
I've used the skull measurements argument many times since they're a good indicator of an animal its size (rather than weighing a gorged animal) and he stated this:
Quote:We have 3 skulls of sub-adult males now (2 killed by poachers and one found dead), and the skulls are fairly large
Being the apex predator means that there are no limitations (e.g. being small and slender to avoid bigger predators by climbing trees) so this also results in an increase of size.
For now I have two Panthera researchers (with Philipp Henschel being the leading expert in West and Central-Africa, Jo Taylor being the other one) both admitting their bigger and more robust appearance and yet you're questioning my 'claim'? Not even talking about the skulls measurements where the larger ones originate from Central Africa.
So we have leopards in equatorial forests predominantly preying upon large as red river hogs and young forest buffalo, they're the apex predator and have larger skulls than any other leopard subspecies. Photographic evidence also show us impressive leopards with many males having the appearance of a jaguar, the so called 'leopard on steroids'.
You have every right to think otherwise but I think we can safely assume that they're bigger and more robust, based on skull measurements and their appearance on photos/videos. And of course Philipp Henschel's conclusion:
Quote:It certainly makes sense for them to become big, heavy ambush predators in this environment
Oh and for those wondering, this part was about a photos I shared where I forgot to credit Philipp
Quote:Yes, it was indeed one of the first I recorded in Gabon, and no worries at all. This just happens a lot
The leopard:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Maybe you could ask from Henschel, what he thinks. I mean he has for sure seen leopards elsewhere too, so he could be asked what is his opinion about sizes when comparing these leopards to other populations?
It would be always interesting to know, but when asking questions it is also about it, that asking right questions to get clear answers. So yes, they are big, but does Henschel think, that they are bigger than other leopard populations/subspecies in Africa? Now when you have contact, try to ask that question, then we would have at least his opinion, not different kind of speculations what something he say means.
(08-21-2019, 12:10 PM)Luipaard Wrote: Becouse as we know, larger leopards are more capable of taking on heavy prey which is why I bolded this part:
Quote:Ecologically, their are certainly the apex predator in our closed forest systems here, as you state, and commonly used prey species are large. Males predominantly killed red river hogs in my dense forest sites, while in forest-savanna mosaics like northern Lope young forest buffalo become an important prey item seasonally. Gorilla and chimp are also regularly taken at all sites.
I've used the skull measurements argument many times since they're a good indicator of an animal its size (rather than weighing a gorged animal) and he stated this:
Quote:We have 3 skulls of sub-adult males now (2 killed by poachers and one found dead), and the skulls are fairly large
Being the apex predator means that there are no limitations (e.g. being small and slender to avoid bigger predators by climbing trees) so this also results in an increase of size.
For now I have two Panthera researchers (with Philipp Henschel being the leading expert in West and Central-Africa, Jo Taylor being the other one) both admitting their bigger and more robust appearance and yet you're questioning my 'claim'? Not even talking about the skulls measurements where the larger ones originate from Central Africa.
So we have leopards in equatorial forests predominantly preying upon large as red river hogs and young forest buffalo, they're the apex predator and have larger skulls than any other leopard subspecies. Photographic evidence also show us impressive leopards with many males having the appearance of a jaguar, the so called 'leopard on steroids'.
You have every right to think otherwise but I think we can safely assume that they're bigger and more robust, based on skull measurements and their appearance on photos/videos. And of course Philipp Henschel's conclusion:
Quote:It certainly makes sense for them to become big, heavy ambush predators in this environment
Oh and for those wondering, this part was about a photos I shared where I forgot to credit Philipp
Quote:Yes, it was indeed one of the first I recorded in Gabon, and no worries at all. This just happens a lot
The leopard:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Maybe you could ask from Henschel, what he thinks. I mean he has for sure seen leopards elsewhere too, so he could be asked what is his opinion about sizes when comparing these leopards to other populations?
It would be always interesting to know, but when asking questions it is also about it, that asking right questions to get clear answers. So yes, they are big, but does Henschel think, that they are bigger than other leopard populations/subspecies in Africa? Now when you have contact, try to ask that question, then we would have at least his opinion, not different kind of speculations what something he say means.
I've contacted Henschel:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Yes, I didn´t doubt that. I was just saying, that if/when you are interested if rainforest leopards are bigger than other populations, make a direct question to him. Does he think that they are bigger than other leopard populations/subspecies? And if so, what makes him to think in that way? Then he answers what he answers.
If that is what he feels, it of course isn´t scientific record, but it would be still interesting to know what person like him thinks. Naturally his earlier answer already said it, that he can give only his opinion. Still opinion of a person like him, who actually is there, is more interesting than opinion from "average Joe".
(08-21-2019, 12:10 PM)Luipaard Wrote: Becouse as we know, larger leopards are more capable of taking on heavy prey which is why I bolded this part:
Quote:Ecologically, their are certainly the apex predator in our closed forest systems here, as you state, and commonly used prey species are large. Males predominantly killed red river hogs in my dense forest sites, while in forest-savanna mosaics like northern Lope young forest buffalo become an important prey item seasonally. Gorilla and chimp are also regularly taken at all sites.
I've used the skull measurements argument many times since they're a good indicator of an animal its size (rather than weighing a gorged animal) and he stated this:
Quote:We have 3 skulls of sub-adult males now (2 killed by poachers and one found dead), and the skulls are fairly large
Being the apex predator means that there are no limitations (e.g. being small and slender to avoid bigger predators by climbing trees) so this also results in an increase of size.
For now I have two Panthera researchers (with Philipp Henschel being the leading expert in West and Central-Africa, Jo Taylor being the other one) both admitting their bigger and more robust appearance and yet you're questioning my 'claim'? Not even talking about the skulls measurements where the larger ones originate from Central Africa.
So we have leopards in equatorial forests predominantly preying upon large as red river hogs and young forest buffalo, they're the apex predator and have larger skulls than any other leopard subspecies. Photographic evidence also show us impressive leopards with many males having the appearance of a jaguar, the so called 'leopard on steroids'.
You have every right to think otherwise but I think we can safely assume that they're bigger and more robust, based on skull measurements and their appearance on photos/videos. And of course Philipp Henschel's conclusion:
Quote:It certainly makes sense for them to become big, heavy ambush predators in this environment
Oh and for those wondering, this part was about a photos I shared where I forgot to credit Philipp
Quote:Yes, it was indeed one of the first I recorded in Gabon, and no worries at all. This just happens a lot
The leopard:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Maybe you could ask from Henschel, what he thinks. I mean he has for sure seen leopards elsewhere too, so he could be asked what is his opinion about sizes when comparing these leopards to other populations?
It would be always interesting to know, but when asking questions it is also about it, that asking right questions to get clear answers. So yes, they are big, but does Henschel think, that they are bigger than other leopard populations/subspecies in Africa? Now when you have contact, try to ask that question, then we would have at least his opinion, not different kind of speculations what something he say means.
I've contacted Henschel:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Yes, I didn´t doubt that. I was just saying, that if/when you are interested if rainforest leopards are bigger than other populations, make a direct question to him. Does he think that they are bigger than other leopard populations/subspecies? And if so, what makes him to think in that way? Then he answers what he answers.
If that is what he feels, it of course isn´t scientific record, but it would be still interesting to know what person like him thinks. Naturally his earlier answer already said it, that he can give only his opinion. Still opinion of a person like him, who actually is there, is more interesting than opinion from "average Joe".
I will ask these questions once he's back in Gabon.
(08-21-2019, 12:10 PM)Luipaard Wrote: Becouse as we know, larger leopards are more capable of taking on heavy prey which is why I bolded this part:
Quote:Ecologically, their are certainly the apex predator in our closed forest systems here, as you state, and commonly used prey species are large. Males predominantly killed red river hogs in my dense forest sites, while in forest-savanna mosaics like northern Lope young forest buffalo become an important prey item seasonally. Gorilla and chimp are also regularly taken at all sites.
I've used the skull measurements argument many times since they're a good indicator of an animal its size (rather than weighing a gorged animal) and he stated this:
Quote:We have 3 skulls of sub-adult males now (2 killed by poachers and one found dead), and the skulls are fairly large
Being the apex predator means that there are no limitations (e.g. being small and slender to avoid bigger predators by climbing trees) so this also results in an increase of size.
For now I have two Panthera researchers (with Philipp Henschel being the leading expert in West and Central-Africa, Jo Taylor being the other one) both admitting their bigger and more robust appearance and yet you're questioning my 'claim'? Not even talking about the skulls measurements where the larger ones originate from Central Africa.
So we have leopards in equatorial forests predominantly preying upon large as red river hogs and young forest buffalo, they're the apex predator and have larger skulls than any other leopard subspecies. Photographic evidence also show us impressive leopards with many males having the appearance of a jaguar, the so called 'leopard on steroids'.
You have every right to think otherwise but I think we can safely assume that they're bigger and more robust, based on skull measurements and their appearance on photos/videos. And of course Philipp Henschel's conclusion:
Quote:It certainly makes sense for them to become big, heavy ambush predators in this environment
Oh and for those wondering, this part was about a photos I shared where I forgot to credit Philipp
Quote:Yes, it was indeed one of the first I recorded in Gabon, and no worries at all. This just happens a lot
The leopard:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Maybe you could ask from Henschel, what he thinks. I mean he has for sure seen leopards elsewhere too, so he could be asked what is his opinion about sizes when comparing these leopards to other populations?
It would be always interesting to know, but when asking questions it is also about it, that asking right questions to get clear answers. So yes, they are big, but does Henschel think, that they are bigger than other leopard populations/subspecies in Africa? Now when you have contact, try to ask that question, then we would have at least his opinion, not different kind of speculations what something he say means.
I've contacted Henschel:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Yes, I didn´t doubt that. I was just saying, that if/when you are interested if rainforest leopards are bigger than other populations, make a direct question to him. Does he think that they are bigger than other leopard populations/subspecies? And if so, what makes him to think in that way? Then he answers what he answers.
If that is what he feels, it of course isn´t scientific record, but it would be still interesting to know what person like him thinks. Naturally his earlier answer already said it, that he can give only his opinion. Still opinion of a person like him, who actually is there, is more interesting than opinion from "average Joe".
I will ask these questions once he's back in Gabon.
Luckily no hurry, sometimes it takes time to get replies from busy people.
(08-21-2019, 12:10 PM)Luipaard Wrote: Becouse as we know, larger leopards are more capable of taking on heavy prey which is why I bolded this part:
Quote:Ecologically, their are certainly the apex predator in our closed forest systems here, as you state, and commonly used prey species are large. Males predominantly killed red river hogs in my dense forest sites, while in forest-savanna mosaics like northern Lope young forest buffalo become an important prey item seasonally. Gorilla and chimp are also regularly taken at all sites.
I've used the skull measurements argument many times since they're a good indicator of an animal its size (rather than weighing a gorged animal) and he stated this:
Quote:We have 3 skulls of sub-adult males now (2 killed by poachers and one found dead), and the skulls are fairly large
Being the apex predator means that there are no limitations (e.g. being small and slender to avoid bigger predators by climbing trees) so this also results in an increase of size.
For now I have two Panthera researchers (with Philipp Henschel being the leading expert in West and Central-Africa, Jo Taylor being the other one) both admitting their bigger and more robust appearance and yet you're questioning my 'claim'? Not even talking about the skulls measurements where the larger ones originate from Central Africa.
So we have leopards in equatorial forests predominantly preying upon large as red river hogs and young forest buffalo, they're the apex predator and have larger skulls than any other leopard subspecies. Photographic evidence also show us impressive leopards with many males having the appearance of a jaguar, the so called 'leopard on steroids'.
You have every right to think otherwise but I think we can safely assume that they're bigger and more robust, based on skull measurements and their appearance on photos/videos. And of course Philipp Henschel's conclusion:
Quote:It certainly makes sense for them to become big, heavy ambush predators in this environment
Oh and for those wondering, this part was about a photos I shared where I forgot to credit Philipp
Quote:Yes, it was indeed one of the first I recorded in Gabon, and no worries at all. This just happens a lot
The leopard:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Maybe you could ask from Henschel, what he thinks. I mean he has for sure seen leopards elsewhere too, so he could be asked what is his opinion about sizes when comparing these leopards to other populations?
It would be always interesting to know, but when asking questions it is also about it, that asking right questions to get clear answers. So yes, they are big, but does Henschel think, that they are bigger than other leopard populations/subspecies in Africa? Now when you have contact, try to ask that question, then we would have at least his opinion, not different kind of speculations what something he say means.
I've contacted Henschel:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Yes, I didn´t doubt that. I was just saying, that if/when you are interested if rainforest leopards are bigger than other populations, make a direct question to him. Does he think that they are bigger than other leopard populations/subspecies? And if so, what makes him to think in that way? Then he answers what he answers.
If that is what he feels, it of course isn´t scientific record, but it would be still interesting to know what person like him thinks. Naturally his earlier answer already said it, that he can give only his opinion. Still opinion of a person like him, who actually is there, is more interesting than opinion from "average Joe".
I will ask these questions once he's back in Gabon.
Luckily no hurry, sometimes it takes time to get replies from busy people.
Indeed, I'm glad he takes time to answer me even though he's in the field. Same goes for Jo Taylor who kindly answered me back. Once Henschel is back Gabon, hopefully we can make our conclusions.
(08-21-2019, 12:10 PM)Luipaard Wrote: Becouse as we know, larger leopards are more capable of taking on heavy prey which is why I bolded this part:
Quote:Ecologically, their are certainly the apex predator in our closed forest systems here, as you state, and commonly used prey species are large. Males predominantly killed red river hogs in my dense forest sites, while in forest-savanna mosaics like northern Lope young forest buffalo become an important prey item seasonally. Gorilla and chimp are also regularly taken at all sites.
I've used the skull measurements argument many times since they're a good indicator of an animal its size (rather than weighing a gorged animal) and he stated this:
Quote:We have 3 skulls of sub-adult males now (2 killed by poachers and one found dead), and the skulls are fairly large
Being the apex predator means that there are no limitations (e.g. being small and slender to avoid bigger predators by climbing trees) so this also results in an increase of size.
For now I have two Panthera researchers (with Philipp Henschel being the leading expert in West and Central-Africa, Jo Taylor being the other one) both admitting their bigger and more robust appearance and yet you're questioning my 'claim'? Not even talking about the skulls measurements where the larger ones originate from Central Africa.
So we have leopards in equatorial forests predominantly preying upon large as red river hogs and young forest buffalo, they're the apex predator and have larger skulls than any other leopard subspecies. Photographic evidence also show us impressive leopards with many males having the appearance of a jaguar, the so called 'leopard on steroids'.
You have every right to think otherwise but I think we can safely assume that they're bigger and more robust, based on skull measurements and their appearance on photos/videos. And of course Philipp Henschel's conclusion:
Quote:It certainly makes sense for them to become big, heavy ambush predators in this environment
Oh and for those wondering, this part was about a photos I shared where I forgot to credit Philipp
Quote:Yes, it was indeed one of the first I recorded in Gabon, and no worries at all. This just happens a lot
The leopard:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Maybe you could ask from Henschel, what he thinks. I mean he has for sure seen leopards elsewhere too, so he could be asked what is his opinion about sizes when comparing these leopards to other populations?
It would be always interesting to know, but when asking questions it is also about it, that asking right questions to get clear answers. So yes, they are big, but does Henschel think, that they are bigger than other leopard populations/subspecies in Africa? Now when you have contact, try to ask that question, then we would have at least his opinion, not different kind of speculations what something he say means.
I've contacted Henschel:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Yes, I didn´t doubt that. I was just saying, that if/when you are interested if rainforest leopards are bigger than other populations, make a direct question to him. Does he think that they are bigger than other leopard populations/subspecies? And if so, what makes him to think in that way? Then he answers what he answers.
If that is what he feels, it of course isn´t scientific record, but it would be still interesting to know what person like him thinks. Naturally his earlier answer already said it, that he can give only his opinion. Still opinion of a person like him, who actually is there, is more interesting than opinion from "average Joe".
I will ask these questions once he's back in Gabon.
Luckily no hurry, sometimes it takes time to get replies from busy people.
Indeed, I'm glad he takes time to answer me even though he's in the field. Same goes for Jo Taylor who kindly answered me back. Once Henschel is back Gabon, hopefully we can make our conclusions.
My guess is, that he gives quite conservative opinion. But you never know, maybe he says something really interesting even if not able or willing to say too strong statements. But as I said, think about things which you are curious and make such questions, that answers have to be then quite specific. For instance about gorillas, could he tell estimations, that how many are young, how many adult females and are there even adult males too hunted in these days? I think, that adult males are very rare and maybe no observations. But if you don´t put too many questions in one message, he might answer in relatively short time.
(08-21-2019, 12:10 PM)Luipaard Wrote: Becouse as we know, larger leopards are more capable of taking on heavy prey which is why I bolded this part:
Quote:Ecologically, their are certainly the apex predator in our closed forest systems here, as you state, and commonly used prey species are large. Males predominantly killed red river hogs in my dense forest sites, while in forest-savanna mosaics like northern Lope young forest buffalo become an important prey item seasonally. Gorilla and chimp are also regularly taken at all sites.
I've used the skull measurements argument many times since they're a good indicator of an animal its size (rather than weighing a gorged animal) and he stated this:
Quote:We have 3 skulls of sub-adult males now (2 killed by poachers and one found dead), and the skulls are fairly large
Being the apex predator means that there are no limitations (e.g. being small and slender to avoid bigger predators by climbing trees) so this also results in an increase of size.
For now I have two Panthera researchers (with Philipp Henschel being the leading expert in West and Central-Africa, Jo Taylor being the other one) both admitting their bigger and more robust appearance and yet you're questioning my 'claim'? Not even talking about the skulls measurements where the larger ones originate from Central Africa.
So we have leopards in equatorial forests predominantly preying upon large as red river hogs and young forest buffalo, they're the apex predator and have larger skulls than any other leopard subspecies. Photographic evidence also show us impressive leopards with many males having the appearance of a jaguar, the so called 'leopard on steroids'.
You have every right to think otherwise but I think we can safely assume that they're bigger and more robust, based on skull measurements and their appearance on photos/videos. And of course Philipp Henschel's conclusion:
Quote:It certainly makes sense for them to become big, heavy ambush predators in this environment
Oh and for those wondering, this part was about a photos I shared where I forgot to credit Philipp
Quote:Yes, it was indeed one of the first I recorded in Gabon, and no worries at all. This just happens a lot
The leopard:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Maybe you could ask from Henschel, what he thinks. I mean he has for sure seen leopards elsewhere too, so he could be asked what is his opinion about sizes when comparing these leopards to other populations?
It would be always interesting to know, but when asking questions it is also about it, that asking right questions to get clear answers. So yes, they are big, but does Henschel think, that they are bigger than other leopard populations/subspecies in Africa? Now when you have contact, try to ask that question, then we would have at least his opinion, not different kind of speculations what something he say means.
I've contacted Henschel:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Yes, I didn´t doubt that. I was just saying, that if/when you are interested if rainforest leopards are bigger than other populations, make a direct question to him. Does he think that they are bigger than other leopard populations/subspecies? And if so, what makes him to think in that way? Then he answers what he answers.
If that is what he feels, it of course isn´t scientific record, but it would be still interesting to know what person like him thinks. Naturally his earlier answer already said it, that he can give only his opinion. Still opinion of a person like him, who actually is there, is more interesting than opinion from "average Joe".
I will ask these questions once he's back in Gabon.
Luckily no hurry, sometimes it takes time to get replies from busy people.
Indeed, I'm glad he takes time to answer me even though he's in the field. Same goes for Jo Taylor who kindly answered me back. Once Henschel is back Gabon, hopefully we can make our conclusions.
My guess is, that he gives quite conservative opinion. But you never know, maybe he says something really interesting even if not able or willing to say too strong statements. But as I said, think about things which you are curious and make such questions, that answers have to be then quite specific. For instance about gorillas, could he tell estimations, that how many are young, how many adult females and are there even adult males too hunted in these days? I think, that adult males are very rare and maybe no observations. But if you don´t put too many questions in one message, he might answer in relatively short time.
Great idea regarding the gorilla predation. Some say they also predate on silverbacks, other claim they focus on young and vulnerable ones, especially at night.
Regarding the silverbacks, I honestly don't think they would focus on such large prey unless it would be a prime adult male leopard. I suspect silverbacks attack leopard in order to protect the other which could result in fatal injuries. But hey that's my view of it.
We do know that Henschel stated "Gorilla and chimp are also regularly taken at all sites." Thus gorilla's are prey for leopards, there's no questioning about that.
(08-21-2019, 12:10 PM)Luipaard Wrote: Becouse as we know, larger leopards are more capable of taking on heavy prey which is why I bolded this part:
Quote:Ecologically, their are certainly the apex predator in our closed forest systems here, as you state, and commonly used prey species are large. Males predominantly killed red river hogs in my dense forest sites, while in forest-savanna mosaics like northern Lope young forest buffalo become an important prey item seasonally. Gorilla and chimp are also regularly taken at all sites.
I've used the skull measurements argument many times since they're a good indicator of an animal its size (rather than weighing a gorged animal) and he stated this:
Quote:We have 3 skulls of sub-adult males now (2 killed by poachers and one found dead), and the skulls are fairly large
Being the apex predator means that there are no limitations (e.g. being small and slender to avoid bigger predators by climbing trees) so this also results in an increase of size.
For now I have two Panthera researchers (with Philipp Henschel being the leading expert in West and Central-Africa, Jo Taylor being the other one) both admitting their bigger and more robust appearance and yet you're questioning my 'claim'? Not even talking about the skulls measurements where the larger ones originate from Central Africa.
So we have leopards in equatorial forests predominantly preying upon large as red river hogs and young forest buffalo, they're the apex predator and have larger skulls than any other leopard subspecies. Photographic evidence also show us impressive leopards with many males having the appearance of a jaguar, the so called 'leopard on steroids'.
You have every right to think otherwise but I think we can safely assume that they're bigger and more robust, based on skull measurements and their appearance on photos/videos. And of course Philipp Henschel's conclusion:
Quote:It certainly makes sense for them to become big, heavy ambush predators in this environment
Oh and for those wondering, this part was about a photos I shared where I forgot to credit Philipp
Quote:Yes, it was indeed one of the first I recorded in Gabon, and no worries at all. This just happens a lot
The leopard:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Maybe you could ask from Henschel, what he thinks. I mean he has for sure seen leopards elsewhere too, so he could be asked what is his opinion about sizes when comparing these leopards to other populations?
It would be always interesting to know, but when asking questions it is also about it, that asking right questions to get clear answers. So yes, they are big, but does Henschel think, that they are bigger than other leopard populations/subspecies in Africa? Now when you have contact, try to ask that question, then we would have at least his opinion, not different kind of speculations what something he say means.
I've contacted Henschel:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Yes, I didn´t doubt that. I was just saying, that if/when you are interested if rainforest leopards are bigger than other populations, make a direct question to him. Does he think that they are bigger than other leopard populations/subspecies? And if so, what makes him to think in that way? Then he answers what he answers.
If that is what he feels, it of course isn´t scientific record, but it would be still interesting to know what person like him thinks. Naturally his earlier answer already said it, that he can give only his opinion. Still opinion of a person like him, who actually is there, is more interesting than opinion from "average Joe".
I will ask these questions once he's back in Gabon.
Luckily no hurry, sometimes it takes time to get replies from busy people.
Indeed, I'm glad he takes time to answer me even though he's in the field. Same goes for Jo Taylor who kindly answered me back. Once Henschel is back Gabon, hopefully we can make our conclusions.
My guess is, that he gives quite conservative opinion. But you never know, maybe he says something really interesting even if not able or willing to say too strong statements. But as I said, think about things which you are curious and make such questions, that answers have to be then quite specific. For instance about gorillas, could he tell estimations, that how many are young, how many adult females and are there even adult males too hunted in these days? I think, that adult males are very rare and maybe no observations. But if you don´t put too many questions in one message, he might answer in relatively short time.
Great idea regarding the gorilla predation. Some say they also predate on silverbacks, other claim they focus on young and vulnerable ones, especially at night.
Regarding the silverbacks, I honestly don't think they would focus on such large prey unless it would be a prime adult male leopard. I suspect silverbacks attack leopard in order to protect the other which could result in fatal injuries. But hey that's my view of it.
We do know that Henschel stated "Gorilla and chimp are also regularly taken at all sites." Thus gorilla's are prey for leopards, there's no questioning about that.
When looking at observations of Baumgärtel, Schaller, Fay and then some scientific studies, it all points out to that direction, that silverbacks are in quite safe position. They don´t seem to be the first gorillas to be attacked. But then again there are some confirmed (in this I trust to expertise and trustworthy of those same people I mentioned before) incidents, where leopards have killed them.
Still not so much information and it would be interesting to learn more. Gorillas and chimps are dangerous prey, when they are in groups. One chimpanzee has practically no chance, but when there are many, they know how to kill a leopard. I remember one interesting article or was it a study about chimpanzees. When they are in areas where is a lot of people, they act with more confidence also concerning leopards. In places, where no humans nearby, they are much more cautious and scary. Right now I don´t remember where it was said, but if someone is interested, it should be possible to find.
@Luipaard Is it possible to ask Henschel whether he can share photos of Leopard kills from Gabon?
This is the closest kill to be photographed there:
Male Chimpanzee killed by Leopard in Gabon
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
" On August 7, 1995, I found the carcass of a chimpanzee in a forest about 300 m from the sea line. A part of the body that included the shoulders was on the ground with hairs scattered around it; The left hand was found 3 m north of the shoulder, and.the lower half of the body was found 10 m north of the left hand. The right hand Pan Africa News, 7(2), December, 2000 was found 17 m east of the shoulder, and the head was found 15 m south of the right hand, with its eyes wide opened (Fig. 1). The abdominal region and internal organs were not found, probably because they had been eaten. The head of the chimpanzee was infested with maggots, but the blood remaining on fallen leaves was not dry, indicating that the predation had occurred 1 or 2 days before. The cranial bone was collected and examined (Fig. 2). There was no injury remaining on the skull. The canines were large. Third molars were all erupted completely, but with slight wear. Thus this chimpanzee was considered to be a late adolescent male of 12 ·or 13 years old (Mauri, personal communication}. Leopard dung was found at the side of the chimpanzee shoulders, and there were new footprints of an adult leopard in a savanna grassland about 20 m from the carcass. These remains suggest that an adult leopard ate a late adolescent male chimpanzee, which was probably killed by the leopard because leopards do not usually eat dead animals. Although I do not know whether this chimpanzee was in good health, this observation suggests the· possibility that predation by leopards is a threat for chimpanzees in this area. "
Possible Case of Predation on a Chimpanzee by a Leopard in the Petit Loango Reserve, Gabon. by Takeshi Furuichi
(08-24-2019, 05:46 AM)Styx38 Wrote: @Luipaard Is it possible to ask Henschel whether he can share photos of Leopard kills from Gabon?
This is the closest kill to be photographed there:
Male Chimpanzee killed by Leopard in Gabon
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
" On August 7, 1995, I found the carcass of a chimpanzee in a forest about 300 m from the sea line. A part of the body that included the shoulders was on the ground with hairs scattered around it; The left hand was found 3 m north of the shoulder, and.the lower half of the body was found 10 m north of the left hand. The right hand Pan Africa News, 7(2), December, 2000 was found 17 m east of the shoulder, and the head was found 15 m south of the right hand, with its eyes wide opened (Fig. 1). The abdominal region and internal organs were not found, probably because they had been eaten. The head of the chimpanzee was infested with maggots, but the blood remaining on fallen leaves was not dry, indicating that the predation had occurred 1 or 2 days before. The cranial bone was collected and examined (Fig. 2). There was no injury remaining on the skull. The canines were large. Third molars were all erupted completely, but with slight wear. Thus this chimpanzee was considered to be a late adolescent male of 12 ·or 13 years old (Mauri, personal communication}. Leopard dung was found at the side of the chimpanzee shoulders, and there were new footprints of an adult leopard in a savanna grassland about 20 m from the carcass. These remains suggest that an adult leopard ate a late adolescent male chimpanzee, which was probably killed by the leopard because leopards do not usually eat dead animals. Although I do not know whether this chimpanzee was in good health, this observation suggests the· possibility that predation by leopards is a threat for chimpanzees in this area. "
Possible Case of Predation on a Chimpanzee by a Leopard in the Petit Loango Reserve, Gabon. by Takeshi Furuichi
