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Plains Camp males
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PCMs spotted in Nkorho.
As @BA0701 had said in one of the other threads, these guys have been responsible for many bigs deaths already proper Mapogo style - some more confirmed than others. The one thing that, atleast for me, allowed such actions to be looked passed were them successfully siring offspring in 3 different prides. I’d hate for all that killing to be for nothing. That’s why I hate seeing them this far East away from their territory. Ridge Nose offspring are at a stage of independence but it doesn’t look great for cubs in Mhangeni and Ximhungwe Prides if PCMs successfully takeover Nkuhuma Pride. Are they strong enough to hold all 3 prides and control the territory as of rn, sure, but their territory is already too vast for them to stop intruders from coming into the West. Males also wouldn’t have to overthrow them in order to kill their cubs, they just have to show up when it’s been vacated.  (05-16-2024, 11:23 PM)KM600 Wrote: PCMs spotted in Nkorho. I mean... What coalitions have done this before? In our recorded time which obviously is not very long most were larger coalitions than 2 I would think. The Mapogo's were 5 and 6, the Majings were 4 the Birmingham's were 4... I might be off on my numbers, but 2 should not be able to hold that size of a territory. 
They're definitely the Mapogo of this time.
I think there will be a big clash in the north soon, be it against Kambulas or Mantimahle/Ndhzengas coming to investigate.  (05-16-2024, 11:59 PM)Mapokser Wrote: They're definitely the Mapogo of this time. I just don't think the Kambula's will try anything, even if they should. My big worry is that the NK male sub gets caught, or Khanya (who I think went south). The Mantimahle's pose an interesting dance partner here, as they are both big boys with giant dark manes. I am not 100% sure the N'Was would be up to this task, but who knows. Don't ask me why, I just think the N'Was are happy with their territory, and I question if Orange Eye is that strong. (05-16-2024, 11:59 PM)Mapokser Wrote: They're definitely the Mapogo of this time. I have the same kinda feeling, not so sure it will result in a big fight but I can definitely see a few standoffs happening with PCMs keen on Nkuhuma Pride and the North as a whole. 
I think you all are overselling it a bit.
Sure they kill some more lions than most coalitions. But its a far cry from the around 100 lions that the Mapogos killed. The Mapogos were also famous for their unusual aggression both towards the lionesses and their cubs and each other. While the PCmales are actually quite gentle towards their prides and cubs or even their rivals as Skorro luckily found out. We also have to take into account that they also have a far larger territory and interact with far more different groups than the average coalition. So have been in far more take overs, are constantly at risk of being dragged into interpride conflicts and have a far larger chance of running into semi nomadic males. If adjusted to that, the amount of death they caused is probably not significantly larger than the average coalition. While the Mapogos are clearly an outlier in that aspect. They may rival, or even scatter the Mapogos success if it comes to territory and offspring. But in brutality the Mapogos are, at least in modern lion tracking records, thankfully still unrivalled. As for who has the potential of becoming the next Mapogos. The source of the Mapogos brutality lies in that they were in far bigger coalition than could be sustained by the food and mating opportunities in the region. This caused a lot of infighting making the males constantly frustrated and aggressive, which in turn got vented on the cubs, lionesses or whichever lion unlucky to be around. You are not going to see that in a group as small and well bonded with each other as the PCmales are. Its going to be one of the bigger struggling coalitions like the Nkhulus that are most at risk of going Mapogo. But realistically, a split is still a far more likely outcome. If Mapogo style events are really that common in Sabi Sands that we are seeing two in just the lifespan of one lion. Lions would have wiped themselves out a long time ago.
@T_Ferguson Ndhzengas will probably not want to take over, but they are known for going north to investigate their neighbors roaring or to see if they are trespassing, they also had many clashes with BDM back in the day.
Both have proved their prowess and strength, they can chase the competition, size doesn't matter in that. Only disadvantage they have is that the PCM are probably not the type of males to entertain a back and forth chasing match, to entertain competition where each side sizes each other, try to separate one of the enemies and so on, classic lion competition. PCM will probably charge anyone they meet and either chase their enemies or if the enemies don't run, engage in a brawl directly. And in a 2v2 straight up brawl it wouldn't be easy to take on massive beasts who are very aggressive and experienced. PCM fight hard for mating rights, they are always full of scars, so not only they have size and power, but also skills and experience. As for the Kambulas, yeah, they are surprisingly weak for their age and numbers, but you never know, we are tired of seeing how it always comes down to numbers. (05-17-2024, 01:33 AM)Mapokser Wrote: @T_Ferguson Ndhzengas will probably not want to take over, but they are known for going north to investigate their neighbors roaring or to see if they are trespassing, they also had many clashes with BDM back in the day. OH, I agree completely. The BDM's however are not on the PCM level, or even 3 or 4 levels below them. The BDM's were basically run out by the Kambula's and in truth, just K4. I would prefer not to see a clash with the N'Was and PCM's simply because it would be bad for a LOT of cubs at this point. 
Usually I advocate for caution regarding our judgement of lion behaviour, but Nkorho?? Really?? That's ridiculous.
I worry for the Ximungwe and Mhangeni prides as well, but as of right now I can't see any aggressive male lions approaching that area. Of course, this can change in a matter of weeks. The PCMs seem to enjoy the company of their cubs (especially the Ximungwe cubs) so let's hope they return to visit them soon. But I have also noticed (with the NK Breakaways and the Mhangeni pride) that once the cubs are close to reach 1 year of age, the PCMs visit far less often and it stats to dwindle. As the Ximungwe cubs approach that 1-year mark, I wonder if this is a natural consequence for them too, which would be very worrying. The PCMs were seen in Singita with the Mhangeni pride on the morning of May 13 though - so not that long ago. It seems like they cover vast distances at rapid speeds. 
Its not that odd. The cubs at one year old are no longer the adorable little fluffballs that are easy to chase off and only take a few bites worth of food. But more ravenous teenagers that are less willing to be ordered around by good old pops. For lots of male lions the pride becomes a bit to intense at times so they start spending more time away from them.
Crazy that they broke nkuhuma pride up just to eventually take over the nkuhuma pride insane but was hopeful the othawa girls would keep them in the west but they went north hopefully if they do take the nkuhuma pride they moved closer to the west all that land for 2 males that’s a lot of patrolling even in the west is fenced in
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