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So I have a question the fall of the othawa pride… it seems it didn’t happen until limper died so was him being alive the reason the other males didn’t try to come for the pride more often I mean I know he was not in any condition to fight but it just seems after he died skorro left came back and then everything went wrong. Just a thought
I suspect the Birminghams played a more active role in Limpers demise. Not that they directly killed him, but they and the Ximhunwes probably did chase him far to the east, where he was seen in the period leading up to his death. The journey into unfamiliar land probably taking too much out of him.
This meant that the Ximhunwes and Birminghams were now aware that the Othawas were now vulnerable. So they attacked, just like we unfortunatly saw today with the Nkhuma breakaways. Resulting in the death of the adults.
Gotcha! I couldn’t remember how he died i just know he was with the talamati boys then after he died and skorro jr went all the way to manyeleti then returned
With the news of Ridge Nose... How does this affect the Othawa's? I know they aren't related, but if the Mangheni's expand their territory and with the Xhim's to the north of them, does this box them into that far Southwest Corner? This area is fenced off correct?
They always had to raise lots of daughters as fast as possible or they will be outcompeted as pride.
Their main rivals are the Ximhungwes. So nothing changes for them in that aspect.
Though with the Nkuhuma breakaway pride gone. The Mangheni will probably move north a bit to exploit their new territories there. This will lower the pressure in the south west a bit, which will give them and the Ximhungwe more breating space.
02-18-2024, 08:34 PM( This post was last modified: 02-18-2024, 08:36 PM by Cath2020 )
(02-18-2024, 07:56 PM)T_Ferguson Wrote: With the news of Ridge Nose... How does this affect the Othawa's? I know they aren't related, but if the Mangheni's expand their territory and with the Xhim's to the north of them, does this box them into that far Southwest Corner? This area is fenced off correct?
We were thinking along the same lines! Whoa, my fear as well! There really is no reason to fear the smaller prides around them, unless they wish to avoid conflict for the sake of their cubs, however once their cubs reach around 2 years of age, and they need to expand their territory to feed them and spread out the family a bit, well, they can take away territories from smaller prides. I guess it's been done many times in the past. That's why, when prides get too small after awhile, they start to live on the fringes, in between territories, with a very uncertain/dangerous future.
Yes, it is fenced off, so the Othaws and Xim. Prides are boxed in, so to speak. All the more perilous if they are ever caught in an ambush.
The Orhowas have already been chased twice by mangheni and on one occasion got very very close to catching one.
There’s only so many more chances at having luck fall your way.
My hopes had been they enter estrus in coming months and the PCMs get to take over and maybe provide a buffer. But not sure PCMs are helping in that aspect. They’re making it harder.
The mangheni are a HUGE pride ATM and will soon naturally expand to seek better hunting grounds for their growing lot more hungry cubs
02-18-2024, 09:02 PM( This post was last modified: 02-18-2024, 09:08 PM by Cath2020 )
And this reminds me about why decisions to allow or not to allow previous offspring back into the pride, may predict the future. The best thing the old Manghenis did was allow the 2 Majing. daughters back into their fold after they went nomadic for a long while. They were very reluctant initially I read, but accepted them in the end. Contrast this with the Othawas, and their refusal to allow the breakaway young lioness back, which might have sealed the fate of the very young subs, plus reduced the pride numbers. She could have provided valuable help for the fleeing young with Sassy, and now she's helping to grow the Xim. Pride....
The 2 Majing. daughters helped the older mothers hunt and aided in Tinya's upbringing, now they are very much building the pride numbers with their breeding potential. 6/10 cubs are theirs.
I don’t remember for sure what is was but I believe it was skorro jr and one of the older othawa females or sassy that chased gingerella away. And the fact that I don’t think she wanted to be around any males at the time
(02-18-2024, 09:23 PM)Ttimemarti Wrote: I don’t remember for sure what is was but I believe it was skorro jr and one of the older othawa females or sassy that chased gingerella away. And the fact that I don’t think she wanted to be around any males at the time
I read that the females were very hostile towards her, particularly the aunties. I believe the males would have eventually accepted her, since they were a young coalition and took over the pride pretty bloodlessly. And Sassy would have most likely survived the takeovers...(well, much higher chance) because it was the attack by her own daughter and the Xim. Lioness which sealed her fate as she looked horrible right after they attacked her. She could never hunt well afterwards or look over her own young subs, slowly starving to death (but was euthanized by rangers in the end). Yes, she was a bit rough looking before the attack, but she was never the same and look completely ragged after the lionesses had a go at her. She must have lost too much blood, torn important ligaments/cartilage, severed nerve endings...etc. Not even the power of a lion's recuperative drive could heal her, she just plain started to deteriorate fast. It was shocking to see in a lioness during her prime years. That attack must have been so bad. Glad we didn't see it. Her own daughter had no mercy on her. Her ties to the pride were indeed, to put it mildly, long gone.
Yes it was so very sad if hairy belly could’ve held onto the territory for a few more months things would’ve been different but then the tumbelas not being healthy males also put the pride at risk
3 adult males 2 are sick
3 adult females 2 are very old it was just a bad combination followed by very very unfortunate events but those 3 girls taught the 2 young othawa girls well extremely well
We never saw the attack, so we cant tell for certain Gingerella was involved or if she was, did much of the mauling. I can see why it makes a great story though.
When Gingerella returned, she had multiple factors going against her.
The Othawas still had very young cubs which can be a source of conflict even between pride members. So they would be wary of her. She would also be pretty wary of the Tumbellas, who in turn would be on edge around her.
It also didn't help that at the time Gingerella was followed by one of her brothers. Who already was far to old to be accepted by the Othawas and would be seen as a rival by the Tumbellas. He quickly disappeared after returning so her attempts of reconciliation may very well have ended with her own brother being killed right in front of her. That's a pretty good incentive to avoid your natal pride if there was one.
Given enough time. She may have integrated with the pride again. But the Ximhungwes beat them by befriending her first.
