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Othawa Pride
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Its amazing that these subs survived. I wouldnt be surprised if this sets the new record.
Though to be honest. I am kinda dreading the moment they go into estrus. At that point they will stop hiding and start seeking out males, which will bring them dangerously close to the Ximhungwe pride. It would be a rather sad echo of history if after all that time, the Othawas fate will fall on to the same fate they themselves inflicted on the Ximhungwes earlier. So with some luck, by that time, the dynamics have improved enough by that time. Western sector is a mess right now. Putting both the Ximhungwes as Othawas at risk.  (08-16-2023, 02:54 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Its amazing that these subs survived. I wouldnt be surprised if this sets the new record.By time they turn 4 in a half years old I think the ximhungwe female will be 10+ years old and might not be as aggressive I don’t even think she is to be honest but I’m not 100% sure but if the males they find are mating with them they will probably defend them hopefully  (08-16-2023, 02:54 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Its amazing that these subs survived. I wouldnt be surprised if this sets the new record. It is a double edged sword, currently they are in extreme peril, regardless of what they do, by both male and female lions. At least if they come into estrus, that may remove one of those from the equation. Given they have been doing so well, to this point, gives me a lot of hope for them. Sassy must have really had them cramming, and their final exam was to be released on their own to show what they have learned, and I believe they have passed with flying colors. A true success story for the ages, if they can keep it up, the stuff real legends are made of. These little ladies have impressed me so much from the beginning, back when they got aggressive towards a pack of hyenas over a kill, we have all seen older females not behave as boldly, these girls have a lot of spunk, and it has really gotten through some tight ones, I mean how many times have they chased the Mangheni off, including off of one of their own kills, an historically aggressive pride. Tsalala wasn't much older than they were, I don't believe, when her mother was killed, and she has been doing it all by herself. These three girls are living proof of what can be actually taught by their mothers, without that teaching our conversation would be vastly different today. Personally, imo, that puts Sassy and the last adult Tsalala lioness at legendary status equal to Tailless. I hope, right along with you, that the dynamics shift in a positive direction, and quickly, for all of the lions occupying that space. It isn't very big to begin with, but in the past they have found a way to make it work. The dynamics are shifting all over SS, currently, putting a lot of prides, and especially a ton of cubs, in danger, but with the western sector being so condensed it makes it that much harder on all of them. As for records, you very well may be entirely correct, I had not heard of lionesses being put out on their own at such young ages before. But, in my opinion, I personally believe Wonky may have been the youngest lion I have ever seen making it on his own. We will never know for certain, as we don't know exactly where he came from, but he appeared to be even younger than the Othawas when he shared that meal with DM, which is precisely why I find his story so incredibly compelling, right along with these three ladies. Do you know how old Gingerella was when she left with Junior and their younger brother? I ask because I don't believe they were together for very long, the three of them, before she came back to western sector. So, hers is another such story, though I believe she was definitely older than the current Othawas and Tsalala females.  (08-16-2023, 05:55 AM)BA0701 Wrote: Do you know how old Gingerella was when she left with Junior and their younger brother? Near 2 yrs old, that happened around late 2020, she was alone after mid 2021, so around 2.5 yrs old. Tsalala was over 2.5 when her mother was killed. They both where left solo around the same age, already quite experienced hunters from what we seen before, Gingerella was leading hunter for his brothers, even when se was still with a pride, she showed remarkable hunting talent. And Tsalala, given situation, needed to learn hunting skills before lion in pride enviroment. This 2 Othawas are without adult help since ~ 1.5 yrs of age, since October 2022 i believe, when Sassy was attacked by Ximhungwes, they where 3 at that time. They definetly had much harder time, as they where much smaller, weaker and not near experienced in hunts as these 2 above, despite having more numbers. They only now approaching age when Tsalala and Gingerella become solo, and they are solo for almost 1 year now already. But yea, alone they prob wouldnt made it, as we saw with Sparta sub, who was left alone at same age as Othawa subs, survived few months, but in the end couldnt made it. As for Wonkey, we dont know when he was born, but yea, he is prob solo since very early age. (08-16-2023, 05:55 AM)BA0701 Wrote:It was incredible seeing the bigger girl run up the tree after that leopard it was insane she is a extremely bold young lion and she will be a very big female(08-16-2023, 02:54 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Its amazing that these subs survived. I wouldnt be surprised if this sets the new record. (08-16-2023, 10:09 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:(08-16-2023, 05:55 AM)BA0701 Wrote: Do you know how old Gingerella was when she left with Junior and their younger brother? The two Othawa lions were for sure smaller and weaker than the others mentioned, and yeah there were three of them the day they pushed back against those hyenas. Sadly the third one did not make it for long though, which caused great concern for the remaining two. I am still heartbroken over the Sparta cub, that girl had so much riding on her, but in the end she was just too small and inexperienced to survive the perils of the bush. I truly do believe that Wonky may well be the youngest lion I have heard of making it all on his own. He was just a little tike, with barely and fluff on his neck when he met up with DM, what an incredible young male. (08-16-2023, 11:19 AM)Tylermartin! Wrote:(08-16-2023, 05:55 AM)BA0701 Wrote:It was incredible seeing the bigger girl run up the tree after that leopard it was insane she is a extremely bold young lion and she will be a very big female(08-16-2023, 02:54 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Its amazing that these subs survived. I wouldnt be surprised if this sets the new record. Those girls have been bold since before Sassy actually passed, they were still with her when they ran the Manghenis off of one of their kills, and if memory serves I believe she may not have been with them any longer, but I think Sassy was still alive when they pushed back on the hyenas.
I dont think the Othawas are in that much danger really. Sure they should avoid the Ximhungwes and perhaps the larger hyena populations and such. But none of those are actively hunting them down but just small groups minding their own bussiness. Even male lions would have little interest in the girls aside from stealing the occasional kill as there are no adult lionesses in the pride to dominate. So it was relative easy to stay below the radar.
The Sparta cub probably had better odds than the Othawas did after she lost her mother. Unlike the Othawas, which grew up playing in the comfort and safety of a pride. That lioness was born in a harsh nomadic life and never knew any other life than that. So she was already very experienced and seeing she survived for a few months, was able to put this experience into practice. Unfortunatly luck just wasnt on her side in the end. Without a proper date of birth or information on his exact backstory, its hard to determine Wonkys exact age or time as a nomad. Which makes him a great honerable mention, but I wouldnt pin the record on him. Ultimately though. Our records only go back a few decades and only cover a few territories. We probably had younger survivors in the past so I dont think we saw the lowest age yet. Though we probably are only a few months from its absolute bottom as obviously cubs cant survive in the wild alone. 
@Duco Ndona they'll need at least 1,5 years to come to estrus. If they can survive till there and Kambulas or other big coalition doesn't oust PCM, the scenario will be most likely the same as right now.
Once they mate with PCM, there will hardly be any threat. I'm skeptical of Ximhungwes raising cubs in the mean time but if they do the cubs will be small, therefore you'll have 2 Ximhungwe including an old one with a limp, and 2 Othawas who wouldn't be the underdogs in the slightest, quite the opposite I bet they'd chase Ximhungwes around. Still, the West is more than big enough for these 2 prides, and they having similar numbers is just what you need to keep the balance of power, like it was back in the Mapogo and Selati era, it wasn't until Majingis took over that everything went badly for Ximhungwes.
Its not much of a open war between the prides I am concerned about. But rather each lioness sneaking off on her own to go mating with the PCmales. Only to then get jumped on by the Ximhungwes.
The Manghenis just chased the girls for a bit, a little over a week ago. They are certainly not living in a safe operating environment at the moment, and the Manghenis were already the largest pride in the area, and only growing by the day it seems.
One is never safe in nature, but that is not the same as being in critical danger at the moment. They are just not at the top of the picking order.
They probably rank roughly where cheetahs and leopards are. Perfectly capable of surviving but need to be careful to avoid lions and other large predators. 
I wonder if PCM would still attack them if/when they turn 3 early next year. Only 7 months to go.
If PCM were chill lions I wouldn't doubt, but with those 2 I'd only be confident about them not killing a lioness if the lioness is in estrus.
It would would depend on the circumstances and their mood I suppose.
I can see the PCmales keeping the girls around so they have another pride to take food from. But if they come to close to the Ximhungwes, refuse to give up their kills or otherwise become bothersome. There is no vested interest for the PCmales to keep them alive either. They already have plenty of adult lionesses to spare. |
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