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ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)

Netherlands peter Offline
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( This post was last modified: 10-05-2018, 01:43 AM by peter )

WOLVERINE

The effort to translate Russian books about tigers written by people in the know will be much appreciated by all. Thanks in advance.

Bulgaria was and still is a crossroads of cultures. Definitely interesting. The Black Sea, summer and no dress codes could be next, as contacts. Here's a few pictures taken in the Natural History Museum.

Adult female brown bear with cubs. Large-framed and big-skulled, she was at least 6.4 (193,04 cm.) while standing on her hindlegs:


*This image is copyright of its original author


The male tiger, large-skulled and bulky as well, was a bit longer than average: 


*This image is copyright of its original author


Standing on his hindlegs, the tiger most probably would have close to 7 feet (213,36 cm.):


*This image is copyright of its original author
 

The museum had different brown bears. The largest was a robust male reaching at least 7.4 (223,52 cm.) on his hindlegs. The others thought he was well over that mark, but that could have been a result of his weight (over 600 pounds). Remember that all measurements were a result of estimates.
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Canada Wolverine Offline
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( This post was last modified: 10-05-2018, 02:58 AM by Wolverine )


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From same Pjrevalsky book "Travel (journey) in Ussuri region" (1867) is writen how dangerous could be for tigers to hunt a male wild boars, and that these animals in Ussuriland made sometimes a seasonal migrations depending on food availability:

"Wild boar (Sus scrofa ferus, in Chinese ei-tcu) is quite numerous in all this country from south to north.

In case of food deficit or some other bad conditions, for example in times of deep snow, fallen on frozen ground, boars make migration from one place to other sometimes on big distances. In same way these cautious animals are doing if they are persistently chased by hunters or tigers.

Tiger, after man is the main enemy of boars and settling close to the herd and hunt when it need mainly females and calfs. To attack adult male boar (6-7 years old) or called "sekatc" in Siberia, who can reach 20 or more puds (320-330 kg) tiger dares only in rare cases because such a struggle cost him too expensive. Local hunters convinced me altogether that for the tiger is difficult to overcome a sekatc, who often succeed to poke him with its canine teeth, so in such a struggle die both animals - tiger and boar"


"кабан (Sus scrofa ferus Gmel., по-китайски ей-чу) водится в большом количестве на всём протяжении описываемой страны с юга на север.
В случае недостатка пищи или каких-либо других неблагоприятных явлений, например, во время глубоких снегов, выпавших на мерзлую землю, кабаны предпринимают переселение из одной местности в другую, иногда на большое расстояние. Точно так же эти осторожные животные переходят в другое место, если их станут усердно преследовать охотники или тигры.
   Последний, тигр, после человека составляет главного врага кабанов и, поселившись обыкновенно вблизи стада, ловит, по мере надобности, преимущественно самок и молодых поросят. На взрослого же самца {Взрослым, вполне сильным кабаном, самец бывает по достижении 6--7-летнего возраста.} или, как его в Сибири называют, секача, который достигает здесь до двадцати и более пудов весу, тигр отваживается нападать лишь в редких случаях, так как подобный бой часто обходится ему очень дорого. Местные охотники единогласно уверяли меня, что тигру трудно справиться с секачом, который часто успевает пырнуть его своими клыками, так что в этой борьбе иногда гибнут оба зверя -- тигр и кабан." 
http://az.lib.ru/p/przhewalxskij_n_m/text_0050.shtml
chapter 9


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Canada Wolverine Offline
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( This post was last modified: 10-06-2018, 04:11 AM by Wolverine )

(10-02-2018, 06:24 PM)peter Wrote:  

I would recommend a kind of series on Sysoev. For this reason, I added a title to your post (Sysoev - I). See what you can find. We're very interested.

Sysoev-2

Amazing fact for professor Vsevolod Sysoev is that he lived 100 years (one century) from 1911 to 2011. Titles of his books include:
Hunting in Habarovski region
Hunting in the forests of Far East
Tiger-catchers
Notes of the far eastern naturalist
Amba
In the northern jungles
Amazing wild animals
Golden Rigma vol.1, vol.2
The landlord of the Little Hingan
etc etc


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*This image is copyright of its original author


Not only in "Amba" but also in his story "the Golden Rigma" Sysoev describes the live of young tigress and her interactions with other beasts.


*This image is copyright of its original author



INTRODUCTION
"Do you know where grapes encircle pine trees and tigers hunt rain deers? This is our Amur region.
Despite I am born in one of the most wonderful places of south Crimea I quickly got used to the Far East, fell in love with this land with whole my heart, attached here for all my life. This is a truly wild country...…………………………………………..

In Ussuriland grow mixed cedar-broad leafed forests. Dence crowns of 40 m high cedars, oakes and other trees close above your head. Your way is fenced by high ferns, liana and thorny buches. Its darkish, dumpy and humid. The feet sink in the wet soil where at some places are printed a rounded traces of tiger paws. Everything resemble jungles.

I have roam countless times in forests of Sihote Allin mountains...…………………………………… I remember especially clearly the meetings with tiger-catchers, a men with romantic and manish profession, who you can find only in the Far east. I have also took part in catching of tigers - an wonderfull royal beasts.
in the literature tiger is described as fierce, blood thirsty beast. I cant agree with such a description. Our fareastern, relictic, longhaired tiger is a very valuable animal. He is not aggressive and is very usefull for the battle with the wolves avalanche. Tiger is a alive monument of the former greatness of the pine-broadleafed forests and deserves further research. Forests of Far East would get poor and boring if the tiger extinct.
………………………………………………………………………………….
I have always been a passionate hunter and loved to hunt bears. In the Amur region there are a lot of brown bears. They reach up to half ton weight. These "landlords" of our forests insult not only deers and boars but dare to enter into battles with tigers and became a winners. We have not only brown bears but Hymalayan black bears as well and they have a semi-tree way of life. 
https://www.litmir.me/br/?b=153848

to be continued
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( This post was last modified: 10-06-2018, 04:08 AM by Wolverine )

Sysoev-III

After this biographical introduction starts the fictional story "Golden Rigma" itself. 

"This winter in the surrounding forests bears didn't enter hibernation due to lack of food. One old shatun (not-hibernating roaming old male) tirelessly followed the tiger family and was eating the residuals of their food. The bear was skinny and almost blind. His claws pulling out ominously 10 cm were making a strange noise as castanets.
……………………………………………………….
Despite the fact that te roaming bear avoided the tigress he didn't afraid of her. He just didn't want to enter in battle knowing the power and sharpness of tiger's paws. He was completely satisfied with the role of scavenger. 
…………………………………………. 
One day shatun become so nasty that appear directly to tiger family dinner. The tigress who still didn't succeed to satisfy her hunger by killed deer attacked with anger the bear. She skillfully used her strong paws but didn't dare to use her teeth because afraid to not enter into iron embrace of the shatun. The bear roaring loudly accepted intimidating positions...……………………………. He didn't want to fight with the fast and dangerous enemy, he only wanted to chase away the tigress and her cubs from carcass, from the tasty aroma of the meet his saliva was dropping on the snow. ………………………………………………
…… The argument of the mighty predators of the Sihote Alin forest turned into real battle. Both enemies were extremely hungry and nobody wanted to give way. According to the laws of taiga the right to appropriate others prey has only the strongest. This fact was realized by the subadult tiger cubs and they wanting to help their mother started offensive against the bear. Seeing that he is already attacked by tree tigers the bear started to withdraw, guarding his back close to tree trunks and finally left the battle ground."

Some paintings:


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Asiatic black bear

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India brotherbear Offline
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( This post was last modified: 10-05-2018, 02:40 PM by brotherbear )

Exceptional postings Wolverine. Post #1817 captured my attention. I have always ( ever since I discovered the Russian taiga due to AVA ), considered the big three ( three kings ) of the R.F.E. to be the boar, the bear, and the tiger ( in no particular order ). In ancient Europe, before the crowning of the lion, the top two animals as seen on such places as shields and banners were the bear and the boar. I know that both the brown bear and the tiger hunt wold boar but I have always thought that the big tusker will sometimes be the victor. 
A little personal experience. My father-in-law once owned cows and hogs. One day, his playful 1800-pound Herford bull got playful with his biggest boar hog. Hogs are not playful. The boar gave the bull a gash on his face that caused the bull to bleed horribly. Even though my father-in-law attempted first aid, the big bull died within 24 hours.

( Had to edit due to my memory. This happened in the 1970's ).
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( This post was last modified: 10-06-2018, 11:22 AM by Wolverine )

From the description of prof. Sysoev could be made important conclusion - some brown bears in Ussuriland not only scavenge tiger food but attach themselves to particular tiger or tiger family for prolonged periods of time - probably weeks or more and follow them. Same as some satellite jackals  called "kahl-boll" are doing in India with the significant difference that while jackal eat residuals of tiger prey big brown bears can displace or seriously injure a tigress or even kill young tiger (descripted in Sysoevs story "Amba"). If the bear is not enough big or is too old (as in Sysoevs story "Golden Rigma) the bear is doing exactly what is doing the jackal - wait until the tiger has finished with the meal. Brown bears seems to follow mainly tigresses or tiger families because they are eaisier to be displaced and intimidated. When tigress has a cubs probably she is more cautious because doesn't want to risk the lives of the cubs and easier to give way to the bear. The prove is the last years documentary case with the gigantic ar. 400 kg bear Hlamida following and displacing persistently almost a month a tigress with subadult cubs.




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Is this suppose to be a cub, male tiger and a female tiger?


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(10-06-2018, 07:08 AM)paul cooper Wrote: Is this suppose to be a cub, male tiger and a female tiger?


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There is no adult male tiger here - these are the tigress with the two subadult almost grown cubs from the Sysoevs story.
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( This post was last modified: 10-06-2018, 03:51 PM by peter )

ABOUT THE RUSSIAN FAR EAST, ARSENIEV, SYSOEV, WOLVERINE AND THE USSURI WILD BOAR

The Russian Far East is a mystery for many. We know it has brown bears, Himalayan black bears, Amur tigers and wild boars, but we don't know how and when they interact. And in what way. The articles published in the period 1992-2018, although very informative, reveiled something, but we want to know a bit more.

The best way to get there, is books. Books written in the time the Russian Far East still was an uninterrupted sea of forest from the Russian Maritime Province all the way to Lake Baikal. Some explorers, naturalists, hunters and biologists, often one and the same back then, wrote books. The most famous no doubt is 'Dersu The trapper' (Arseniev).    

V.D. Sysoev, however, was more productive in the book department. Like many, he explored the Russian Far East a long time ago. As he was there a very long time, he must have seen a lot. He could be our man, that is. What did he see? Most fortunately, Sysoev wrote books. Lots of them, in fact. The problem is they are in Russian. 

Wolverine is the only member able in Russian. Every translation he posts, therefore, will be much appreciated. Thanks again on behalf of all, Wolverine, and please continue. We're very interested.

As to Amur tigers and Ussuri wild boars. Some time ago, I posted parts of an article on wild boars. It said Ussuri wild boars are the largest of their species. Interesting, of course, but what does it mean? 

Now photographs come in. Anything available? Yes.

Here's two I found on the new Carnivora forum some weeks ago. They were posted by poster 'Atrox' and they're telling.

Here's the difference between a Sardinian wild boar (Sardinia is an island in the Mediterranean) and an Ussuri wild boar (ventral view):


*This image is copyright of its original author


Here's another one. Adult male Ussuri wild boar (354 kg. or 781 pounds) and adult grey wolf:


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India parvez Offline
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https://journals.plos.org/plosone/articl...ne.0193495
with help of Wisdom of the god
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( This post was last modified: 10-07-2018, 11:24 AM by Wolverine )

Sysoev-IV

In the forests of Ussuriland beside the mighty brown bears (Ursus arctos) roam also a much smaller Asiatic black bears (Ursus thibetanus). While the average weight of adult male Ussuri brown bear is 270 kg, the average adult male black bear is 130-135 kg, half of the former. Black bears seems to be regularly hunted by Amur tigers.Hunting a male black bear for tiger is probably equal challenge as hunting of female brown bear (145 kg) .

Here Sysoev describes how Amur tigress is pulling out a hibernating black bear from the den:


*This image is copyright of its original author



"...when the nose of the tigress got the smell of the Asiatic black bear she stop walking: black bears always has been a favorite food for the tigers. Firstly Rigma (the tigress) looked at the surroundings and arrived to conclusion that the bear after didn't find any suitable hole in a tree dig under the roots of Tilia tree growing on steep slope and here entered into winter hibernation. Approaching the tilia she decided to get the bear. Bu how? When after widening of the exit she tried to pull out the bear the tigress met the grinned canines and long claws of the bear. The narrow exit didnt allow her to penetrate in the den; to pull out stacked and desperately biting "housekeeper" proved to be impossible.

Then Rigma accepted more tricky and smart way. She dig a bit from the side opposite to the den's exit, catched the bear's buttock and wrested a piece of skin with black hair. The bear turned around with roar. Wherever direction bear turned around from one of the exits was visible some vulnerable part of his body. Seeing that can not hide anymore the bear decided to save his life by running away, but in the moment he show up his head and shoulders from the den Rigma bite him for the nape and killed him. Then she drag out already softened bear's body from the den and pulling it aside started her dinner.
The weight of the bear was 100+ kg. "
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( This post was last modified: 10-10-2018, 04:54 AM by peter )

(10-02-2018, 06:48 PM)P.T.Sondaica Wrote: @peter amba kill by male brown bear is real?

Shortly after you posted the question, I took a break of a week. When I returned, I was busy. Sorry about the delay.  

In 2010, there was a debate about Sysoev and his story ('Amba') in the thread 'Male brown bears are not out of the predatory reach of tigers if of similar size' (Animals Versus Animals, Yuku - Tapatalk today).

Alexious3, one of the most informed posters, thought the story could have been fictional, but he wasn't sure. He knew of 2 male tigers killed by male brown bears in the Russian Far East. One incident happened in 1960, the other in 1972. Apart from the fact that the tiger was an adult male, there's no info on the 1972 incident, but one of the posters involved in the debate, Grahh, posted a newspaper report (in English) about the 1960 incident.  

Rukovsky also reported about a fight between a male bear and a male tiger. The bear, described as a 'very large' individual, won and consumed most of the tiger. The skull later found in the snow suggested the tiger had been about 4 years of age. According to Alexious3, this incident could have been the 1960 incident described in the newspaper report posted by Grahh, but he wasn't sure. 

Sysoev's story ('Amba') was published after the 1960 incident. Alexious3 didn't know if it was based on that incident, but it could have been. In Sysoev's story, the bear was an emaciated 'Schatun' (a non-hibernating male brown bear). 

Sysoev's story has a lot of details suggesting he might have seen a fight between a tiger and a brown bear. Some time later, I read he had seen 4 fights between tigers and brown bears. In 2 cases, the bear won. In one, the tiger won. One fight ended in a draw. Again, I'm unable to say if the information I read is correct. 

There's a famous photograph of a diorama constructed between 1964-1966. Apparently, it was supervised by Sysoev. It could be that it was based on his story ('Amba'), but that again is only a guess. Here's the photograph of the diorama posted before:


*This image is copyright of its original author
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(10-06-2018, 03:04 PM)peter Wrote: ABOUT THE RUSSIAN FAR EAST, ARSENIEV, SYSOEV, WOLVERINE AND THE USSURI WILD BOAR

The Russian Far East is a mystery for many. We know it has brown bears, Himalayan black bears, Amur tigers and wild boars, but we don't know how and when they interact. And in what way. The articles published in the period 1992-2018, although very informative, reveiled something, but we want to know a bit more.

The best way to get there, is books. Books written in the time the Russian Far East still was an uninterrupted sea of forest from the Russian Maritime Province all the way to Lake Baikal. Some explorers, naturalists, hunters and biologists, often one and the same back then, wrote books. The most famous no doubt is 'Dersu The trapper' (Arseniev).    

V.D. Sysoev, however, was more productive in the book department. Like many, he explored the Russian Far East a long time ago. As he was there a very long time, he must have seen a lot. He could be our man, that is. What did he see? Most fortunately, Sysoev wrote books. Lots of them, in fact. The problem is they are in Russian. 

Wolverine is the only member able in Russian. Every translation he posts, therefore, will be much appreciated. Thanks again on behalf of all, Wolverine, and please continue. We're very interested.

As to Amur tigers and Ussuri wild boars. Some time ago, I posted parts of an article on wild boars. It said Ussuri wild boars are the largest of their species. Interesting, of course, but what does it mean? 

Now photographs come in. Anything available? Yes.

Here's two I found on the new Carnivora forum some weeks ago. They were posted by poster 'Atrox' and they're telling.

Here's the difference between a Sardinian wild boar (Sardinia is an island in the Mediterranean) and an Ussuri wild boar (ventral view):


*This image is copyright of its original author


Here's another one. Adult male Ussuri wild boar (354 kg. or 781 pounds) and adult grey wolf:


*This image is copyright of its original author
Peter, could you tell me where the boar's skull discovered ? and how about the size number of this boar'skull?
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( This post was last modified: 10-12-2018, 11:41 AM by Wolverine )


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Jury Mihailovitch Jankovskij (the elder)
translation from book "Fifty years of tiger hunting":
https://www.rulit.me/books/polveka-ohoty...086-5.html

Chapter 1
MY FIRST TIGER HUNTING
…………………………………….

"So, it happened in December 1889. Platon who just arrived from horse riding informed us that he discovered killed by tiger our mare Zelna at around six verstes (distance) from our manor house and was directed by group of crows. Despite at those times such an event was something normal we felt sad because we knew well that horse and it cost us also a financial loses. My father start preparing for hunt and we sent Platon to gather a horses spread on the fields before the nightfall in order to prevent their killing by a tiger. Since there was nobody else in home my dad agreed to get me with himself.

The area where was killed Zelna was difficult and dangerous for hunting of tiger. It was a flat coast of lake Lobiazhee 1 km wide and covered by canes. In many places was growing a young pine wood and if you follow the traces of the tiger you can directly run into it. Also there was only little bit snow which dispersed our attention following his traces. Beside this is hard to notice the tiger among the yellowish canes.

We started careful preparing for the hunt and this was typical for my father. For such a carefull preparations I am endlessly grateful to him since when you go to serious job you should be not dispersed nor careless. This habitude in the future has saved my live many times in the future. Unfourtunately in this case my father had only one Winchester gun. For me there was no firearm and I got only Platon's spear and was proud of it.

I remember how mom said: if the tiger attack your dad do not afraid and cut the beast!
I think not many mothers would allow their 11 years old sons to participate in tiger hunt.


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I remember what a frustrating impression created in me following picture: in small meadow on the tramped snow among pine trees was lying torned apart our Zelna. Abdamon was cuted apart, all intestines were pulling out, half of the buttock was eaten out. With our approach the feeding on the carcass group of eagles and crows fly away cawing loudly and landed on the top of the surrounding trees unhappy that disturbed their dinner on the horse killed by the tiger. During the night the carcass got frozen and the hungry crows were pecking with difficulties. 

After we observed carefully the snow we found the place where the tiger was prowling towards the victim and by the way during the jump he broke with the chest a pine tree a hand tick. Then the tiger in his favourite fashion jumped on the horse's back caught the neck with his teeth and broke it with one movement only. Has to e mentioned that concerning the power of his muscles tiger can not compare with not other living creature.

Making further observations we arrived to conclusion that lastly the tiger was here a couple of hours before our arrival, he has eaten from his favourite part - the buttock and then moved to rest among the canes. 

… we started to follow tiger footprints ……………. when we went further it got easier to follow. Tiger (we found the place he was lying) obviously after heard our steps start to move away hiding among the canes, but as always in his favorite fashion turned aside in order to check do we follow him. In any case he was somewhere very close and I didn't realize how dangerous was the moment. Tiger's patience could finish in any moment due to our persistence, he could ambush us and attack. I realized all this after many years, but then under protection of my father I was quite."

etc etc finaly the tiger escaped crossing the border with Korea (or China - not clear)







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( This post was last modified: 10-19-2018, 07:04 AM by peter )

BROWN BEARS AND HIMALAYAN BLACK BEARS AS HUNTERS 

1 - Introduction

In the Russian Far East, tigers and bears have been neighbours for many years. Although we now know a bit more about the way they interact as a result of a number of articles published in the last two decades, these animals still are an enigma in many ways.  

Quite many posters interested in tigers and bears seem to think that brown bears are large, but clumsy scavengers unable to defend themselves against a determined professional like a tiger. I don't know how they got to that opinion, but it's far from the truth.

On the internet, you can find many videos of brown bears hunting and killing large mammals. In the hunting department, they do very well. Brown bears hunt in spring in particular. During hibernation, they can lose up to 30% of their weight. In spring they need a lot of energy and the best way to get there fast is protein. 

In summer and autumn, bears switch to vegetables. Most of the time, forest products are available. More often than not, there's no need to compete in order to eat. In terms of energy, no big investment is needed. This enables bears to fatten up for hibernation.       

Himalayan black bears, about half the size of brown bears in the Russian Far East, also hunt. We seldom hear about them, because brown bears get a lot more airplay. But the Russian Far East has many Himalayan black bears. 

As this post is about bears, I initially wanted to use one of the bear threads. I decided against it, because it is of interest for those doing tigers and bears in the Russian Far East. The aim of the post is to show those interested that bears are far from clumsy and defenceless.        

2 - Brown bear and wild boar

The video below was posted in 2010 by Grahh, a bear poster involved in nearly all debates about tigers and bears in the Russian Far East in AVA (Yuku, now Tapatalk). The video was taken from a car and shows a brown bear struggling with a wild boar. The bear is seen standing on his hind legs most of the time. This position enabled him to use his weight and front limbs with great effect. Weight, when used in this way, is an effective method to subdue an opponent of similar size.   

Those who saw videos of big cats killing large mammals could be a bit surprised about the method used by the bear in that there's no crippling bite. The method used by the bear, however, is effective as well. As you can see, the exhausted wild boar is not able to use his tusks. Bears often use weight and brute force to kill animals. 

In spring, brown bears hunt. In spite of their size, they're fast and much more agile than many think. In the video, the bear left the scene before the boar was killed because he was disturbed: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBDAOY3Qwnw

3 - Himalayan black bear and wild boar

In 1993, 'Tiger, deer and ginseng', written by V. Jankowski, was published (in Russian). This is the book in which the very large Sungari river tiger is discussed. During the debate about the tiger and the bear he had killed a few days before he was shot, Warsaw, Wolverine and WaveRiders posted translations of the part in which the tiger featured. These enabled me to get to a kind of reconstruction. I'll post it soon.

As to the large male Himalayan black bear and the wild boar he killed. When he was out for tigers troubling a small village, V. Jankowski saw a large wild boar in a riverine forest. At least, that's what he thought. He shot the 'boar'. When he went over to see what had happened, he saw he had shot a well-fed male Himalayan black bear. The bear had killed a large male wild boar. It was the first time he saw a wild boar killed by a Himalayan black bear.

Himalayan male bears average 130-140 kg., but individual variation is pronounced. Large males can reach 180-200 kg., if not more. Males of that size do not fear tigers and apparently are able to hunt as well.

Here's Valery Jankowski with a large Himalayan black bear. I don't know if it is the bear mentioned in his book, but it shows that some males can reach a great size:  


*This image is copyright of its original author
   

4 - Finland

The last days I've been talking about tigers and bears with a new member, Shadow. Like Wolverine, he's very well-read in the department of tigers and bears in the Russian Far East. Shadow is from Finland, where they have brown bears. My guess is that brown bears in Finland more or less compare to those in the Russian Far East. They don't have exceptional individuals occasionally seen in the Russian Far East, but adult males not seldom reach 250-300 kg. 

In spring, brown bears hunt mammals up to the size of an adult bull moose. Shadow saw the results of severe fights. I invited him to tell us a bit more. You might be surprised about the abilities of brown bears.

Youtube has a lot of videos from Finland. In quite many, bears feature. My advice is to have a good look at them. Chances are you will conclude that adult male brown bears are far from clumsy and defenceless. 

In many bear videos you can see wolves. In Finland, brown bears and wolves seem to interact in a different way than in the northwestern part of the US and Canada.

The bear and the wolf in the photograph below (taken by Lasse Rautiainen) seemed to get along. The photograph, to be sure, is not shopped. We're talking about wild animals here. It was posted before, but I decided for a repost:       


*This image is copyright of its original author
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