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N'waswitshaka males

Poland Potato Offline
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(12-06-2021, 01:01 AM)Mdz123 Wrote: It should be taken in consideration that if the N’was males take over all the Birmingham teritory (although it is unlikely for now), they will have too much territory to handle by themselves. They will have half of Mala Mala and all of Sabi Sabi and Lion Sands. This will cause some trouble for them because they cant patrol such a big territory. They might abandon one of the prides in southern Sabi Sands in order to focus on Kambulas and this isnt good as the Styx pride are open for a takeover from S. Avocas or anyone else.

I do not think it would be to big to patrol at all. I do not think they even would need to vacat Styx pride in order to takeover Kambula pride. It is not unussual at all for coalition effectivly control 2 prides especially for a coalition of 4. They should handle it without much of a problem.
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Netherlands Duco Ndona Offline
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( This post was last modified: 12-06-2021, 02:47 PM by Duco Ndona )

Ussually those are two prides close to eachother. Like the Othawa and Ximhungwe pride used to be. Not two prides way across the reserve.
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RookiePundit Offline
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Gore is likely to stay back anyway and afaik he kind of was spending more time with Southern female then Amahle and Eorenji for sure, only Ubuso was with her without others regularly as well - granted we do not know what happens there when they are no sightings.

What I want to say it is quite expected they will split as they often do fluidly maybe bit more "permanently" with the distances becomign bigger. Even during the first recent incursion into Birmingham's territory or rather Londolozi and western Mala Mala, they did not last long as 4 male unit, not surprising given Gore's condition. They are often fragmented and will likely be perhaps even more or for longer periods.
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France WildRev Offline
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'We found 2 N’waswishaka male lions the evening before, following closely behind a herd of buffalo & in the morning, we located 3 of them not far from where we left them. They were still trailing the buffalo but stopped to rest as the clouds disappeared allowing us to view them,'

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*This image is copyright of its original author
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Poland Potato Offline
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(12-06-2021, 02:46 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Ussually those are two prides close to eachother.
That is mostly because prides tend to shift their territorys in order to be close to their dominant males (as of recent Nkuchuma, Talamati, Imbali and even Kambula prides can be good examples, Mhangeni pride also spent more time in Londolozi when Othawa males shifted his attention there). If Nwas would spent more time in Londolozi and Mala Mala then Styx pride would as well probably shift a bit towards north to Umkumbe or so. In general coalition such as 4 members strong should be able to cover ground on which operates 3-4 prides without too much of a problem so I can easly imagine Nwas controling Styx, Kambula and Mhangeni prides at the same time. 

(12-06-2021, 02:46 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Like the Othawa and Ximhungwe pride used to be
That is not a great example for you as controling those two prides required controling entire (Mapogos) or almost entire (Salatis) western sector. 


Anyway if you look at how much of a ground could cover coalitions in the past like Mapogos, Salatis, Majingis, Birminghams or Matimbas you can see how much arena and prides coalitions (especially bigger like 4 or more members strong) can cover. Controling 2 prides for a coalition of 4 is not even a lot.
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Netherlands Duco Ndona Offline
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( This post was last modified: 12-06-2021, 05:03 PM by Duco Ndona )

Prides may move a bit. But they are not going to stray far from their respective territories just to follow some males. Both prides would have to make conciderable sacrifices in territories to stay near and the presence of the other two prides would also deter moving closer. So that still leaves a huge territory to patrol.

As long the PC males are threatening the Mhangeni, the N. Avocas the Talamatis and the Southern Avocas the south. Defending the prides would take a huge upkeep each. It would also be very difficult to maintain dominance over all three of them at the same time as long those groups are around. So most likely they are going to stick with just the one currently willing to mate. While leaving the others to fend for themselves. Like those other coalitions largely did.

Unless the coalition falls apart and each lion picks a pride. But at that point they are more seperate coalitions than a single one.
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France WildRev Offline
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The mangheni pride moved in sabi sabi with the othawa male before being pushed back by the arrival of the n'was so yeah pride can move a lot to follow their dominant male, not 'some male'
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United Kingdom lionuk Offline
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(12-06-2021, 05:46 PM)WildRev Wrote: @lionuk already posted
Ok, I didn't see, so I'll delete that post.
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Netherlands Duco Ndona Offline
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The Mhangeni as far as I know never settled further than Londolozi. They may travel occasionally further by necessity but never stay. 

In the eyes of a pride, the male is just some male. Usefull for safety, but they wont take unnecessary risks to any cubs just to stay close to them.

Like it or not, there just isnt enough space in a coalitions core territory to house 3 large prides each besieged by rival males. They either have to abandon some or split up.
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Canada Mdz123 Offline
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(12-06-2021, 08:07 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: The Mhangeni as far as I know never settled further than Londolozi. They may travel occasionally further by necessity but never stay. 

In the eyes of a pride, the male is just some male. Usefull for safety, but they wont take unnecessary risks to any cubs just to stay close to them.

Like it or not, there just isnt enough space in a coalitions core territory to house 3 large prides each besieged by rival males. They either have to abandon some or split up.

This is not always the case. In big coalitions who have a large territory, numbers are key to success. The more males there are in a coalition, the bigger the territory they can defend. Members of such a big coalitions also need a strong bond so they wont split up. In the case of the N’was males, they have to patrol half of the Sabi Sands reserve which is a lot for 4 males, but ok for 5 males. For example, When the Majingilanes took over the Selati controled area, they had too big of a territory to patrol, so they abandoned Eastern Sector which was then occupied by S. Matimbas and Matshapiri.
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Netherlands Duco Ndona Offline
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The surface the group can patrol is the same regardless of the amount of lions in a coalition. As ultimately they just cant be at two spots at once with the full group.

Leaving them with 3 choices. Which from unlikely to most likely are. 
Kill every male lion in the region. Like the northern and southern Avocas, PC males, BBoys etc. So they no longer need to worry about patrolling.

Split the coalition in two or three and divide the prides among those. 

Or abandon some prides and focus only on those with the best food and mating opportunities.
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Timbavati Offline
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We had found two of the N’waswishaka male lions the evening before, following closely behind a large herd of buffalo and in the morning, we located three of them not far off from where they were left. They were still trailing behind the herd of buffalo but soon stopped to rest as the clouds disappeared giving us a chance to view the three of them.
Photo credits: Erin Herbst 

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author
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Tonpa Offline
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I know there's a non-intervention policy (or so they say), but pretty crazy they don't make exceptions for wounds that aren't fatal but cause prolonged suffering
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United States criollo2mil Offline
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(12-07-2021, 03:09 AM)Tonpa Wrote: I know there's a non-intervention policy (or so they say), but pretty crazy they don't make exceptions for wounds that aren't fatal but cause prolonged suffering

I get so frustrated with the ‘no intervention’ blanket policy…I would advocate for a case by case for exception.
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BigLion39 Offline
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I agree I hate the blanket policy. Like for Gores case, IMHO, he surviving, thriving I might say, so why not dart him and stick that thing back in where it belongs. I do not get it.
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