There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
(12-09-2022, 06:15 PM)ZigZak Wrote: As indicated they do not weigh their lions in the field.
Gap Africa Projects is usually "responsible" for the animals in the reserve (darting them) who work with vets from local clinics that treat them in the field and in their own clinics from what i have seen. So it is independent -> not the reserve. As implicated it was an examination and around the time when he was translocated, which is a complicated process. Maybe he was weighed in Kololo but that doesnt matter because of the reason i will mention now.
If the lion was not weighed recently/didnt go viral it is almost guarenteed workers are not even aware of that particular examination, let alone weight. As reported reserves are generally not well organized especially when it comes to such information (most have no idea especially when it is years ago) as they work with independent organisations that also usually work with vets from clinics and do not store data like those scientists in National Park with the prime example being Kruger National Park. This was the case with Kololo, Karongwe, Erindi, Madikwe, Entabeni and other Game Reserves. They do not even know the names of people that worked some years before them.
The workers that were contacted also didnt work at that time. So it is better to contact the vet that worked with Gap Africa Projects at that time as it says examination.
----
The Video was the original source (comments) and the guy doesnt seem to be a liar or dangerous guy in any way. He just posts animal videos and also shared the official documents too. He said to me "In total, two measurements were taken (2017 and 2020) .Since you can contact the staff, why don't you ask them to ask the vet who measured Dinokeng at that time?".
Maybe you didn't read the email, old friend, but I asked both of them for the contacts of the vet. They never replied to that.
Also, Carmen actually works with Gap Africa, while also being the lead of bio-monitoring team.
GAP doesnt have vets. They call local vets (there arent actual vets working for Welgevonden or Gap) so they cant tell. Also she was barely working in Welgevonden when Dinokeng was examined, so they wont be helpful. I am not concerned in this case, just want to make sure i would like to write with the vet even though the document is there. There is not a good organization, storage in Game Reserves and there are not employees for each field like in national parks, which makes it so hard to get any data from reserves when it took place a
That vet doesn't exist.He comes from a rumor made up by an extreme lion fan.
12-10-2022, 01:25 PM( This post was last modified: 12-10-2022, 01:39 PM by Charger01 )
(12-10-2022, 04:08 AM)ZigZak Wrote:
(12-09-2022, 10:23 PM)Charger01 Wrote:
(12-09-2022, 06:15 PM)ZigZak Wrote: As indicated they do not weigh their lions in the field.
Gap Africa Projects is usually "responsible" for the animals in the reserve (darting them) who work with vets from local clinics that treat them in the field and in their own clinics from what i have seen. So it is independent -> not the reserve. As implicated it was an examination and around the time when he was translocated, which is a complicated process. Maybe he was weighed in Kololo but that doesnt matter because of the reason i will mention now.
If the lion was not weighed recently/didnt go viral it is almost guarenteed workers are not even aware of that particular examination, let alone weight. As reported reserves are generally not well organized especially when it comes to such information (most have no idea especially when it is years ago) as they work with independent organisations that also usually work with vets from clinics and do not store data like those scientists in National Park with the prime example being Kruger National Park. This was the case with Kololo, Karongwe, Erindi, Madikwe, Entabeni and other Game Reserves. They do not even know the names of people that worked some years before them.
The workers that were contacted also didnt work at that time. So it is better to contact the vet that worked with Gap Africa Projects at that time as it says examination.
----
The Video was the original source (comments) and the guy doesnt seem to be a liar or dangerous guy in any way. He just posts animal videos and also shared the official documents too. He said to me "In total, two measurements were taken (2017 and 2020) .Since you can contact the staff, why don't you ask them to ask the vet who measured Dinokeng at that time?".
Maybe you didn't read the email, old friend, but I asked both of them for the contacts of the vet. They never replied to that.
Also, Carmen actually works with Gap Africa, while also being the lead of bio-monitoring team.
GAP doesnt have vets. They call local vets (there arent actual vets working for Welgevonden or Gap) so they cant tell. Also she was barely working in Welgevonden when Dinokeng was examined, so they wont be helpful. I am not concerned in this case, just want to make sure i would like to write with the vet even though the document is there. There is not a good organization, storage in Game Reserves and there are not employees for each field like in national parks, which makes it so hard to get any data from reserves when it took place a long time ago.
IF the information is real, then someone found it. Meaning it MUST exist. Now if it does, then where is it? Once again, I am not dismissing anything right now. (Anything includes the sheet as well as the replies I got from Welgevonden).
(12-09-2022, 06:15 PM)ZigZak Wrote: As indicated they do not weigh their lions in the field.
Gap Africa Projects is usually "responsible" for the animals in the reserve (darting them) who work with vets from local clinics that treat them in the field and in their own clinics from what i have seen. So it is independent -> not the reserve. As implicated it was an examination and around the time when he was translocated, which is a complicated process. Maybe he was weighed in Kololo but that doesnt matter because of the reason i will mention now.
If the lion was not weighed recently/didnt go viral it is almost guarenteed workers are not even aware of that particular examination, let alone weight. As reported reserves are generally not well organized especially when it comes to such information (most have no idea especially when it is years ago) as they work with independent organisations that also usually work with vets from clinics and do not store data like those scientists in National Park with the prime example being Kruger National Park. This was the case with Kololo, Karongwe, Erindi, Madikwe, Entabeni and other Game Reserves. They do not even know the names of people that worked some years before them.
The workers that were contacted also didnt work at that time. So it is better to contact the vet that worked with Gap Africa Projects at that time as it says examination.
----
The Video was the original source (comments) and the guy doesnt seem to be a liar or dangerous guy in any way. He just posts animal videos and also shared the official documents too. He said to me "In total, two measurements were taken (2017 and 2020) .Since you can contact the staff, why don't you ask them to ask the vet who measured Dinokeng at that time?".
Maybe you didn't read the email, old friend, but I asked both of them for the contacts of the vet. They never replied to that.
Also, Carmen actually works with Gap Africa, while also being the lead of bio-monitoring team.
GAP doesnt have vets. They call local vets (there arent actual vets working for Welgevonden or Gap) so they cant tell. Also she was barely working in Welgevonden when Dinokeng was examined, so they wont be helpful. I am not concerned in this case, just want to make sure i would like to write with the vet even though the document is there. There is not a good organization, storage in Game Reserves and there are not employees for each field like in national parks, which makes it so hard to get any data from reserves when it took place a
That vet doesn't exist.He comes from a rumor made up by an extreme lion fan.
I may ask who is the extreme lion fan you are talking about? The document and other details leave no room for a fabrication and i do not see any intention of it being faked but maybe thats just my point of view. I have never seen any fan from both sides faking weights. With the time we will know...
(12-09-2022, 06:15 PM)ZigZak Wrote: As indicated they do not weigh their lions in the field.
Gap Africa Projects is usually "responsible" for the animals in the reserve (darting them) who work with vets from local clinics that treat them in the field and in their own clinics from what i have seen. So it is independent -> not the reserve. As implicated it was an examination and around the time when he was translocated, which is a complicated process. Maybe he was weighed in Kololo but that doesnt matter because of the reason i will mention now.
If the lion was not weighed recently/didnt go viral it is almost guarenteed workers are not even aware of that particular examination, let alone weight. As reported reserves are generally not well organized especially when it comes to such information (most have no idea especially when it is years ago) as they work with independent organisations that also usually work with vets from clinics and do not store data like those scientists in National Park with the prime example being Kruger National Park. This was the case with Kololo, Karongwe, Erindi, Madikwe, Entabeni and other Game Reserves. They do not even know the names of people that worked some years before them.
The workers that were contacted also didnt work at that time. So it is better to contact the vet that worked with Gap Africa Projects at that time as it says examination.
----
The Video was the original source (comments) and the guy doesnt seem to be a liar or dangerous guy in any way. He just posts animal videos and also shared the official documents too. He said to me "In total, two measurements were taken (2017 and 2020) .Since you can contact the staff, why don't you ask them to ask the vet who measured Dinokeng at that time?".
Maybe you didn't read the email, old friend, but I asked both of them for the contacts of the vet. They never replied to that.
Also, Carmen actually works with Gap Africa, while also being the lead of bio-monitoring team.
GAP doesnt have vets. They call local vets (there arent actual vets working for Welgevonden or Gap) so they cant tell. Also she was barely working in Welgevonden when Dinokeng was examined, so they wont be helpful. I am not concerned in this case, just want to make sure i would like to write with the vet even though the document is there. There is not a good organization, storage in Game Reserves and there are not employees for each field like in national parks, which makes it so hard to get any data from reserves when it took place a long time ago.
259kgs (empty stomach) male from Timbavati weighed by the head of the carnivore team in kruger. This Lion is called the "Timbavati male lion", 5 years old, he sired the 3 huge Machaton males also, and was the main Male lion in Kings Camp area in Timbavati around
(12-11-2022, 08:02 PM)ZigZak Wrote: 259kgs (empty stomach) male from Timbavati weighed by the head of the carnivore team in kruger. This Lion is called the "Timbavati male lion", 5 years old, he sired the 3 huge Machaton males also, and was the main Male lion in Kings Camp area in Timbavati around
(12-11-2022, 08:02 PM)ZigZak Wrote: 259kgs (empty stomach) male from Timbavati weighed by the head of the carnivore team in kruger. This Lion is called the "Timbavati male lion", 5 years old, he sired the 3 huge Machaton males also, and was the main Male lion in Kings Camp area in Timbavati around
*This image is copyright of its original author
Still no word on the Vets name?
If you read my post there is still a lot to ask. I personally wrote with him, so you can be sure about it. If you assure me that you wont contact the person until i am done i may give you his name via PM in few days. Luckily he had no problem with his name being shared (for now at least).
Timbavati Lions impressed me. We have 3 male lions that were weighed and those were the lions that dominated the kings camp area. We have the father of the machaton lions who weighed 259 kg without stomach fill at the age of 5. Then we have Ximpoko who weighed c.280 kg (283 kg i believe) with a recent meal and the lion Mabande that was darted alongside with him weighed c.250 kg. I guess he had stomach content but we dont know. There is a male also from a timbavati back then that was named Waza Waza and he apparently weighed 270 kg but the information on that specimen is poor and it sounded lika an estimate. So dominant lions and thus the fair maximum is around 240-260 kg without stomach fill. Anything above that are exceptions and very large lions.
Gap Africa Projects 通常对保护区内的动物“负责”（飞镖），这些动物与当地诊所的兽医一起工作，这些兽医在野外和我所见的自己的诊所中治疗它们。所以它是独立的 -> 不是储备。言外之意是检查，又是在易位前后，过程复杂。也许他在 Kololo 称过体重，但这并不重要，因为我现在要提到的原因。
GAP 没有兽医。他们打电话给当地的兽医（没有真正的兽医为 Welgevonden 或 Gap 工作）所以他们无法分辨。此外，在检查 Dinokeng 时，她几乎没有在 Welgevonden 工作，所以他们不会提供帮助。我不关心这种情况，只是想确保我愿意和兽医一起写信，即使文件在那里。禁猎区没有良好的组织和存储，也没有像国家公园那样的每个领域的员工，这使得很久以前就很难从保护区获取任何数据。
(01-09-2023, 11:08 PM)acutidens150 Wrote: Can someone give me the link to Smuts 1980 study on lions (Pdf document, I'd like most but if can't then anything else)
01-24-2023, 07:05 PM( This post was last modified: 01-25-2023, 05:24 AM by Bruceenzo )
(12-01-2022, 12:32 AM)ZigZak Wrote:
(11-30-2022, 01:41 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(11-30-2022, 12:14 AM)ZigZak Wrote:
(11-29-2022, 09:38 PM)Mapokser Wrote: @ZigZak wasn't BDM's skull the third largest, not the largest?
As i know BDM Skull must be the largest. Because as i know the biggest lion skull ever had a score of 26.5 inches and that comes from Kirbies Lion. However BDM had a skull score of 28 inches following wards protocol. I honestly think he had a skull length of c.430 mm and a zogomatic width of c.280 mm.
His skull would rank 17th amongst S.A. Lions *general overexaggerating seen in private reserves* from SCI but again the process is different and even master measurers can do so in different ways.
I saw on Youtube someone say it was 16'' x 12'' which would be very unusual zygomatic width for that length in Lions, your measurements would be more plausible but still need verification.
Those measurements were estimates by lion fans because of the score of 28 inches that was reached by Black Dam.
You look like someone I know. I'm not sure. If you are China IP, or the IP of multiple countries (the reason for vpn switching), I will be sure. This 287kg lion information looks like a trick for a person to reply to himself with two Instagram, I don't know why you should erase the online status of the other party. It looks like the performance of not understanding and feeling guilty after the rumor. Well, you look very much like some extreme lion fan I know.In addition, the Facebook of the person who provided your 287kg screenshot and your WF are all recently registered, which makes me more sure that you are him. I need the help of the administrator. Which country is the IP address of the banned guy? He looks like a Chinese lion fan, similar to Warsaw, and also very good at spreading rumors. I hope that the administrator can reply to my question, which is very important.
Modern Weights and Measurements of Wild Lions
