There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
02-02-2022, 10:10 PM( This post was last modified: 02-02-2022, 10:10 PM by SpinoRex )
Uptade
Im now in a long conversation with the ecologist of Madikwe GR. Thankfully he is a really nice guy and is also very interested about lion datas. We even shared datas together about Kruger lions. He is at the moment in contact with the reserve management and the head guide of the lodges. I will publish it when new informations are available.
02-02-2022, 10:17 PM( This post was last modified: 02-02-2022, 10:21 PM by Pckts )
(02-02-2022, 10:10 PM)SpinoRex Wrote: Uptade
Im now in a long conversation with the ecologist of Madikwe GR. Thankfully he is a really nice guy and is also very interested about lion datas. We even shared datas together about Kruger lions. He is at the moment in contact with the reserve management and the head guide of the lodges. I will publish it when new informations are available.
Guides from lodges aren’t researchers so take everything they say in regards to capture weights with a grain of salt.
Im now in a long conversation with the ecologist of Madikwe GR. Thankfully he is a really nice guy and is also very interested about lion datas. We even shared datas together about Kruger lions. He is at the moment in contact with the reserve management and the head guide of the lodges. I will publish it when new informations are available.
Guides from lodges aren’t researchers so take everything they say in regards to capture weights with a grain of salt.
He is a staff member though. Because of that he asked the reserve management and got the confirmation of the batia male and was pretty accurate and sure about it (He said that to different users). I think it makes a difference how they explain it. Someone shared with me the video from Timbavati where a guide (with a lot of experience apparently looking at his knowledge and working time in Kruger) precisely explained the story behing these lions. I think he was the one who said that mabande weighed 250 kg (The male was back then confirmed to be weighed together with the famous lion ghost). The other lion he mentioned was it ximpoko or the Birmingham male?
Looking as for now Mabande was several times collared (at least 2 times, because he doesnt have a collar anymore) and at least 1 time weighed.
But generally i agree with you. Many weights are estimated and William Knight exactly got these infos when he asked the reserve management. Its important from where the source is... as a person alone he is already reliable due to the fact he works there.
Im now in a long conversation with the ecologist of Madikwe GR. Thankfully he is a really nice guy and is also very interested about lion datas. We even shared datas together about Kruger lions. He is at the moment in contact with the reserve management and the head guide of the lodges. I will publish it when new informations are available.
Guides from lodges aren’t researchers so take everything they say in regards to capture weights with a grain of salt.
Also i said im in contact with the ecologist. He said to me "I will check with William Knight (Head guide) where he obtained his information".
02-02-2022, 11:29 PM( This post was last modified: 02-02-2022, 11:34 PM by Pckts )
(02-02-2022, 11:02 PM)SpinoRex Wrote:
(02-02-2022, 10:17 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(02-02-2022, 10:10 PM)SpinoRex Wrote: Uptade
Im now in a long conversation with the ecologist of Madikwe GR. Thankfully he is a really nice guy and is also very interested about lion datas. We even shared datas together about Kruger lions. He is at the moment in contact with the reserve management and the head guide of the lodges. I will publish it when new informations are available.
Guides from lodges aren’t researchers so take everything they say in regards to capture weights with a grain of salt.
Also i said im in contact with the ecologist. He said to me "I will check with William Knight (Head guide) where he obtained his information".
You misunderstood my post.
Studying ecology has nothing to do with the capture, treatment and weight of wild animals. You need to speak with a zoologist/biologist who's involved in the actual capture, measurements and weighing.
And unless William Knight provides the names allegedly responsible and then you specifically speak with them, then all claims should not be used as fact. Like we've seen numerous times, it only gets you in trouble when using 2nd hand sources.
02-02-2022, 11:59 PM( This post was last modified: 02-03-2022, 12:00 AM by Pckts )
(02-02-2022, 10:59 PM)SpinoRex Wrote:
(02-02-2022, 10:17 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(02-02-2022, 10:10 PM)SpinoRex Wrote: Uptade
Im now in a long conversation with the ecologist of Madikwe GR. Thankfully he is a really nice guy and is also very interested about lion datas. We even shared datas together about Kruger lions. He is at the moment in contact with the reserve management and the head guide of the lodges. I will publish it when new informations are available.
Guides from lodges aren’t researchers so take everything they say in regards to capture weights with a grain of salt.
He is a staff member though. Because of that he asked the reserve management and got the confirmation of the batia male and was pretty accurate and sure about it (He said that to different users). I think it makes a difference how they explain it. Someone shared with me the video from Timbavati where a guide (with a lot of experience apparently looking at his knowledge and working time in Kruger) precisely explained the story behing these lions. I think he was the one who said that mabande weighed 250 kg (The male was back then confirmed to be weighed together with the famous lion ghost). The other lion he mentioned was it ximpoko or the Birmingham male?
Looking as for now Mabande was several times collared (at least 2 times, because he doesnt have a collar anymore) and at least 1 time weighed.
But generally i agree with you. Many weights are estimated and William Knight exactly got these infos when he asked the reserve management. Its important from where the source is... as a person alone he is already reliable due to the fact he works there.
A staff member is simply an employee of the lodge.
Lodges have nothing to do with the capture and treatment of animals. That is a government job unless the reserve is privately owned then they'll employ someone to do so. A lodge is simply a hotel/game drive service within the reserve, nothing more.
Next, asking ''reserve management" is an empty claim. You'd need to know who specifically and what their qualifications are as well as who gave them said information.
A guide claiming any weight is baseless without sources. Guides have no reason to be involved with captures so any info they get is 2nd hand. If any weights are claimed, they aren't valid unless specifically mentioned by the ones involved in the capture. For instance, any collared Tiger's weight we have has been confirmed by the ones involved or referenced in the capture and collaring of that cat. If that criteria isn't available then the weights are disregarded. This is the same for any big cat used in scientific tables.
Lastly, William Knight first gave misinformation before changing his answer.This is done time and time again and is a perfect example of what I said above.
02-03-2022, 12:00 AM( This post was last modified: 02-03-2022, 12:06 AM by SpinoRex )
(02-02-2022, 11:29 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(02-02-2022, 11:02 PM)SpinoRex Wrote:
(02-02-2022, 10:17 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(02-02-2022, 10:10 PM)SpinoRex Wrote: Uptade
Im now in a long conversation with the ecologist of Madikwe GR. Thankfully he is a really nice guy and is also very interested about lion datas. We even shared datas together about Kruger lions. He is at the moment in contact with the reserve management and the head guide of the lodges. I will publish it when new informations are available.
Guides from lodges aren’t researchers so take everything they say in regards to capture weights with a grain of salt.
Also i said im in contact with the ecologist. He said to me "I will check with William Knight (Head guide) where he obtained his information".
You misunderstood my post.
Studying ecology has nothing to do with the capture, treatment and weight of wild animals. You need to speak with a zoologist/biologist who's involved in the actual capture, measurements and weighing.
And unless William Knight provides the names allegedly responsible and then you specifically speak with them, then all claims should not be used as fact. Like we've seen numerous times, it only gets you in trouble when using 2nd hand sources.
Ecologists, biologists or zoologists actually can do the same things. The differences are marginal. Timbavati or Madikwe dont have zooligists as the ecologist take that role. I am wondering what is considered unreliable. A head guide asking the Reserve management itself is the most accurate way beside the fact to ask someone who was actively involved.
Also i said the source is important. You have your own believes but that means beside the source (wich is reliable) the only option is that he would be a liar, which then can happen for all workers there. To be sure i will double check it by the ecologist. Beside that Pantherinae got by other lodges exactly the same reply speaking about that batia male.
The head guide asked the reserve management and got the reply that Kwande wasnt weighed but one of the batia males.
As i said he will check the source to be sure. If he says the same then there shouldnt be any problem.
Im now in a long conversation with the ecologist of Madikwe GR. Thankfully he is a really nice guy and is also very interested about lion datas. We even shared datas together about Kruger lions. He is at the moment in contact with the reserve management and the head guide of the lodges. I will publish it when new informations are available.
Guides from lodges aren’t researchers so take everything they say in regards to capture weights with a grain of salt.
Also i said im in contact with the ecologist. He said to me "I will check with William Knight (Head guide) where he obtained his information".
You misunderstood my post.
Studying ecology has nothing to do with the capture, treatment and weight of wild animals. You need to speak with a zoologist/biologist who's involved in the actual capture, measurements and weighing.
And unless William Knight provides the names allegedly responsible and then you specifically speak with them, then all claims should not be used as fact. Like we've seen numerous times, it only gets you in trouble when using 2nd hand sources.
Ecologists, biologists or zoologists actually can do the same things. The differences are marginal. Timbavati or Madikwe dont have zooligists as the ecologist take that role. I am wondering what is considered unreliable. A head guide asking the Reserve management itself is the most accurate way beside the fact to ask someone who was actively involved.
As i said he will check the source to be sure. If he says the same then there shouldnt be any problem.
No, they don't and an Ecologist would have no business in the capture and measurements of a Big cat. Any reserve that employs someone involved in the capture and measurements of a Big cat will have a biologist/zoologist and vet on site. Timbavati being a private reserve may do things differently but that'd be very irresponsible since an ecologist has no proper training in that field.
A head guide asking reserve management could mean anything. First you're taking a guides word for it, then you're accepting the idea that who they spoke with was involved in the capture of said animal yet you're being provided no proof of that person being in the know or providing any verifiable information. Like I've stated, we have numerous examples of people using guides or photographers who spoke with guides as proof of an animal being weighed then every time it turns out to be wrong.
02-03-2022, 01:06 AM( This post was last modified: 02-03-2022, 06:02 PM by SpinoRex )
(02-02-2022, 11:59 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(02-02-2022, 10:59 PM)SpinoRex Wrote:
(02-02-2022, 10:17 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(02-02-2022, 10:10 PM)SpinoRex Wrote: Uptade
Im now in a long conversation with the ecologist of Madikwe GR. Thankfully he is a really nice guy and is also very interested about lion datas. We even shared datas together about Kruger lions. He is at the moment in contact with the reserve management and the head guide of the lodges. I will publish it when new informations are available.
Guides from lodges aren’t researchers so take everything they say in regards to capture weights with a grain of salt.
He is a staff member though. Because of that he asked the reserve management and got the confirmation of the batia male and was pretty accurate and sure about it (He said that to different users). I think it makes a difference how they explain it. Someone shared with me the video from Timbavati where a guide (with a lot of experience apparently looking at his knowledge and working time in Kruger) precisely explained the story behing these lions. I think he was the one who said that mabande weighed 250 kg (The male was back then confirmed to be weighed together with the famous lion ghost). The other lion he mentioned was it ximpoko or the Birmingham male?
Looking as for now Mabande was several times collared (at least 2 times, because he doesnt have a collar anymore) and at least 1 time weighed.
But generally i agree with you. Many weights are estimated and William Knight exactly got these infos when he asked the reserve management. Its important from where the source is... as a person alone he is already reliable due to the fact he works there.
A staff member is simply an employee of the lodge.
Lodges have nothing to do with the capture and treatment of animals. That is a government job unless the reserve is privately owned then they'll employ someone to do so. A lodge is simply a hotel/game drive service within the reserve, nothing more.
Next, asking ''reserve management" is an empty claim. You'd need to know who specifically and what their qualifications are as well as who gave them said information.
A guide claiming any weight is baseless without sources. Guides have no reason to be involved with captures so any info they get is 2nd hand. If any weights are claimed, they aren't valid unless specifically mentioned by the ones involved in the capture. For instance, any collared Tiger's weight we have has been confirmed by the ones involved or referenced in the capture and collaring of that cat. If that criteria isn't available then the weights are disregarded. This is the same for any big cat used in scientific tables.
Lastly, William Knight first gave misinformation before changing his answer.This is done time and time again and is a perfect example of what I said above.
That was because of the rumored estimates in the park. Such estimates for Kwande were given before(250 kg and so on) . We are talking about the fact that the information he got was from the reserve management/headquarter (about the batia male lion). He got the info that Kwandwe was estimated also from that source. Beside the fact the lodge royalmadikwe gave exactly the same number.
I dont want to talk about that anymore. Its baseless unless i get a new mail from the ecologists
(02-05-2022, 04:41 PM)SpinoRex Wrote: UPTADE (New lion weights)
The ecologist of Madikwe said to me:
Quote:The Homob male in Pilannesberg for example weighed 237kgs (pers coms Gus Van
Dyk) but he had just eaten- so arguably you can take of at least 20-30kg
Gus Van?
Did you ask how who/how he obtained the weight from?
No he just said it to me. But Gus Van Dyk is a field biologist and responsible for Wildlife Conservation at Tswali Kalahari now.
I will ask him personally as well
That would definitely be who you want to speak with. Hopefully he can give you some weights and measurements.
Although rob already gave me the info but maybe he has more infos on weighed lions. I will ask now many reserves and nationalparks about their lions.
The batia male 2004 (Rob send me a special picture), Here he isnt so "fat" as before(2001) but really compact. T
*This image is copyright of its original author
Information about the batia males from Rob
Quote:FYI – The Bartia brothers were introduced into Madikwe from Etosha in 1995
as 3yr olds.
In 2008 at around 16yrs - the one was killed by a buffalo and the other by other territorial male lions.
Also i am now in contact with Yamaguchi and shared him the datas about lion and tigers especially about those from Timbavati, The tiger from Jhala and so on. I gave him the contact details of those who weighed them and he was really interested. These individuals may get their place in scientific literature
Modern Weights and Measurements of Wild Lions
