There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
It’s there's any report/article with the official weight of this male lion? This thread is one of the best thanks to all the good and official information regarding lions weight and for the members who contributed to it. Note, This forum is about good information. What is good information? Good information is reliable, first-hand and authentic information related to the topic discussed. Information collected by researchers and those who have (had) first-hand experience with wild or captive animals. Could be books, articles, short stories, tables and interviews. Anything goes, as long as it is authentic and true.
It’s there's any report/article with the official weight of this male lion? This thread is one of the best thanks to all the good and official information regarding lions weight and for the members who contributed to it. Note, This forum is about good information. What is good information? Good information is reliable, first-hand and authentic information related to the topic discussed. Information collected by researchers and those who have (had) first-hand experience with wild or captive animals. Could be books, articles, short stories, tables and interviews. Anything goes, as long as it is authentic and true.
Timbavati this lion was said to be a large Male lion, unfortunately there's no article confirming about this weight
So i tried contacting this guy?
And yeah sure i always try to post good information
I never heard of Leingmara. Just a question, It's Hasan a guide? Are his words authentic? Because, If he is not a ranger, guide or an vet. The 270kg of Leingmara are just his guessing and, at the same time, misleaning information. Since there's 0 reports from the vets/rangers/managers etc. I'm not discrediting your posts because sometimes are good. But the aim of this forum is provide first-hand and authentic information. WildFact it's known for his reliablity.
11-05-2021, 12:58 AM( This post was last modified: 11-05-2021, 02:33 AM by T I N O )
Thank you for the information @"Khan85" Yes, From what I have seen. Hasan is a lion poster in FB. It seems Hasan isn't a ranger,guide or vet to determine the weight of a male lion (Of which, Probably not was weighed since there's any report so far) Looks like it was just a 'guess weight without any aunthentic/reliable source'...
@BA0701 @Lycaon
11-26-2021, 11:28 PM( This post was last modified: 11-27-2021, 01:22 AM by GuateGojira )
(10-29-2021, 04:42 PM)BIGCATSXPERT Wrote: @Khan85 I removed Bertram, 1976 and Almeida
As it included very sick individuals
I don't think a lion will average 155kg with n=22
That's not possible
Where you got that those lions were very sick? Where is the source of your claim?
It doesn't matter what you think, but what the evidence shows. Lions are small in other areas and those lions are probably of the same size as West Africa/India lions.
Dr Bertram is one of the best sources for lion data, the fact that you remove him shows how unreliable are your resultas.
12-26-2021, 03:21 AM( This post was last modified: 01-25-2022, 10:34 PM by LonePredator )
(11-16-2020, 10:48 PM)Balam Wrote:
(11-16-2020, 10:30 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(11-16-2020, 09:05 PM)Balam Wrote: A lot of the weights posted in YouTube animal channels come directly from this forum. That channel specifically is not reliable as the person who runs it is extremely bias, similar to what you see on some Tapatalk forums.
That same individual posted a comparison between an Ussuri brown bear and a Siberian tiger stating that the tiger was 200+ kg on average, when we know that's far from the truth. The purpose was to decrease the size of the bear and increase the size of the tiger to make them as similar in build as possible.
I'd stay away from those channels/forums and treat all the "data" they post with a grain of salt.
Yellowstone Brown Bears average 193kg for 5 year old + Males (65* individuals) and Amur Tiger weights between modern and past weights will be around the same average. I'm not sure how the Ussuri Brown Bear weights compare to Yellowstone but I thought both overlapped quite a bit.
Brotherbear posted this chart before involving Ussuri brown bears, although I'm curious regarding the sample size and time the bears were weighed, we know brown bears fluctuate in mass dramatically depending on the season:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Jordan Carlton from the International Association for Bear Management released this article on NatGeo and he said this concerning Ussuri brown bears:
The black grizzly or Ussuri brown bear (Ursus arctos lasiotus) is another big bear occasionally attaining a size greater than the Kamchatka brown bear. These bears are found in the Amur and Ussuri River regions of the Russian Far East, northeastern China, the Korean Peninsula and Japan.
I don't want to turn this into a tiger vs bear conversation and I'm sure this could be carried on in different threads, but my point is that certain channels online have a tendency to cherry-pick information and present in a way that is deceiving but supports their bias for a specific animal. If you look at the comments under that thread you have people with names such as "leopard owns lions" gratifying on the seemingly low weights posted on that chart.
Please stop citing Nat Geo as a reliable source of information.Nat Geo is not a credible source and Nat Geo has given out some terrible information several times. One such ridiculously surprising instance was when they posted this on their YouTube video 'Tigers 101'
(09-26-2020, 12:22 AM)Pckts Wrote: I joined SCI and now have access to their Record Books.
I'll post records of each Big Cats species I can find.
*Date Taken, Location, With which Hunting Program, gun used, Skull Score*
African Lion Top 20
1. 10/2017 Zambia, Luangwa Valley Stone Hunting Safaris / Jason Stone R 29 1/16"
2. 06/2011 Zambia, Luangwa Valley Stone Hunting Safaris / Jason Stone R 28 6/16"
3. 06/1999 Zimbabwe, Zambezi Valley Rusty Labuschagne / Safari Trackers R 28 1/16"
4. 06/1999 Mozambique, Gaza Sandy McDonald / McDonald Pro Hunting R 27 11/16"
5. 11/2014 Zimbabwe, Gwaai Zim Africa / Heath Jardine R 27 10/16"
6. 06/2019 Zambia, Luangwa Valley Stone Hunting Safaris / Jason Stone B 27 7/16"
7. 04/1995 Botswana, Chobe Rann Safaris "Africa" R 27 6/16"
8. 07/2019 Zambia, Upper Lupande Stone Hunting Safaris / Jason Stone C 27 4/16"
9. 11/2008 Tanzania, Masailand Stone Hunting Safaris R 27 3/16"
10. 09/2003 Tanzania, Ruhudji Harpreet S. Brar / Rungwa Game Safaris R 27 2/16"
11. 06/2007 Botswana, Bottlepan Bottlepan Safaris / Mike Murray R 27 2/16"
12. 09/2005 Botswana, Maun Bird Safaris / Luke Blackbeard R 27 1/16"
13. 07/2007 Tanzania, Burungi Stone Hunting Safaris R 27 1/16"
14. 07/2015 Zimbabwe, Bubye Valley Conservancy John Sharp R 27 1/16"
15. 09/1994 Tanzania, Mbono Alberto Feu Hereu / T.G.T.S. R 27"
16. 04/1997 Botswana, Chobe Rann Safaris "Africa" R 27"
17. 10/2002 Tanzania, Kilombero Paul Jelonek / Bundu Safaris R 27"
18. 05/2005 Botswana, Ngamiland Kgori Safaris R 27"
19. 10/1991 Tanzania, Loliondo South Cotton Gordon Safaris R 26 14/16"
20. 07/1994 Zimbabwe, Zambezi Valley Rod Ferreira / Track-A-Hunt Safaris R 26 14/16"
African Lion (South Africa and Namibia)
Top 20
1. 09/2015 R.S.A., Bray Madubula Safaris / John Abraham R 28 15/16"
2. 10/2014 R.S.A., Cradock Madubula Safaris / Rudo Myburg R 28 12/16"
3. 02/2004 R.S.A., Timbavati John Abraham / Madubula Safaris R 28 6/16"
4. 11/2012 R.S.A., Tosca Somerby Safaris / Andre Nel R 28 6/16"
5. 07/2013 R.S.A. Watts Trophy Safaris / Gidion Watts B 28 6/16"
6. 09/2013 R.S.A., Tosca Madubula Safaris / Tony English R 28 6/16"
7. 08/2016 R.S.A., Kalahari TB Hounds Tinashe / T. Botha R 28 6/16"
8. 12/2011 R.S.A., Ingogo Ingogo Safaris / Walter Slippers C 28 4/16"
9. 05/2014 R.S.A., Northwest Province Ditholo Safaris / J.L. Giriesel R 28 4/16"
10. 11/2009 R.S.A., Kalahari Mabula Pro Safaris / Christo Gomez R 28 3/16"
11. 01/2010 R.S.A., Kuruman Stone Hunting Safaris / Jason Stone R 28 3/16"
12. 08/2010 R.S.A., Vryburg De Klerk Safaris / Christo V Deventer R 28 2/16"
13. 03/2013 R.S.A., Cradock Tam Safaris / Stepen Tam R 28 2/16"
14. 04/2013 R.S.A., Northwest Province Quagga Safaris / Eric Vissar R 28 2/16"
15. 12/2007 R.S.A., Northern Province Unico Hunting Safari / Attie van Niekerk R 28 1/16"
16. 08/2010 R.S.A., Kalahari Somerby Safaris / Helgard "Drom" Beukes R 28" 8 8
17. 08/2012 R.S.A., Kalahari Somerby Safaris R 28" 8 8
18. 10/2014 R.S.A., Cradock Madubula Safaris / Rudo Myburg R 28"
19. 06/2006 R.S.A., Ingogo Ingogo Safaris R 27 15/16"
20. 03/2004 R.S.A., Klaserie Graham Sales / Madubula Safaris R 27 14/16"
DESCRIPTION (male) Length, including tail, 8-1/2 to 10 feet (260-305 cm), occasionally more. Shoulder height 40-48 inches (100-120 cm). Weight 350-500 pounds (160-225 kg), sometimes more. (female) Head and body length, including tail, 7-9 feet (215-275 cm). Shoulder height 38-42 inches (97-107 cm). Weight 265-375 pounds (120-170 kg). The female normally has two pairs of teats, but some individuals have been recorded with three pairs.
The lion is the largest cat in Africa and, among the world's cats, is second in size only to the tiger. The smooth short coat is usually tawny beige in color, but can vary from light gray to dark reddish brown. The end of the tail has a black tuft, and there are black markings on the backs of the ears. There are five toes (including dewclaws) on the front feet, four on the hind feet, all with sharp, curved, retractile claws. The male usually has a mane of long hairs on its head, shoulders and chest, but there is much variation, with some individuals having magnificent manes and others being nearly bald, and the color varying from blond to black. Besides being considerably smaller than males, females are more lightly built and lack a mane.
BEHAVIOR Lions are the most social of all cats and usually are found in family groups, or prides, consisting of related females and their young plus one or more adult males. Adult males often form small bachelor groups. Seldom solitary. Each group has a large home range. Not territorial. Breeding takes place throughout the year, although in any one pride the females tend to deliver offspring at about the same time. A female normally gives birth every 18-26 months, with 3-4 cubs the usual number (the range is 1-6). Cubs are sexually mature at 3-4 years, but continue to grow until about age six. Longevity in the wild: males about 12 years, but up to 16 years, females 15-16 years, but up to 18 years; in captivity average 13 years, but as much as 25-30 years.
Lions spend most of the time resting and sleeping, averaging 20 or more hours of inactivity a day. Activity may occur at any hour, but their hunts take place mainly at twilight and night. Lions are entirely carnivorous, their usual prey consisting of warthogs, antelopes and zebras in the 100-650-pound range (45-300 kg), though larger species such as buffalo and giraffe are also taken. Will eat carrion. An individual lion can eat as much as 80-90 pounds (36-41 kg) of meat at one meal, and is estimated to require 10-20 large prey animals per year. May prey on cattle and other livestock, and some lions become man-eaters, creating havoc when they do. Drinks daily when water is available, but can subsist without water for long periods by obtaining moisture from its prey.
Sense of smell is good, hearing and eyesight are excellent. Its voice is the well-known roar, which is heard mainly at night and is audible for miles. Able to run 40 mph (65 km/h) for a short distance. A poor tree-climber.
HABITAT Grassland, bush and savanna woodland. Rarely in dense forest. Never in rain forest.
DISTRIBUTION Widespread throughout Africa from south of the Sahara to northern Namibia, Botswana and parts of South Africa.
REMARKS A lion is a highly esteemed hunting trophy and taking a good one is a major event for both client and safari staff. The usual hunting methods are by baiting or tracking; however, many lions are taken by chance encounter. Lions can be extremely dangerous when wounded or provoked, especially if other members of the pride become involved.
Trophy quality is determined largely by the mane, although size of body and skull are also important. Because a lion's Record Book score is the sum of its skull measurements, skull size is of primary importance to anyone seeking a high ranking. Unfortunately, a large-bodied, large-skulled lion can have a poor mane, and vice versa. The ideal combination of a full mane of whatever color the hunter prefers, a large body and a large skull is difficult to find and often necessitates a number of safaris.
An unfortunate consequence is the setup or "canned" lion hunt, in which a captive lion is presented to an unsuspecting client. Such a "hunt" can be impossible for the client to detect if well-orchestrated. Since the beginning, SCI has had a policy against accepting setup lions for the Record Book, and has never knowingly done so.
Interesting. Do you have detailed measurements on those lion skulls such as skull length and width for individual lions? Those with skull scores at 28 and above seem questionable.
(11-05-2021, 12:22 AM)Khan85 Wrote: Afaik, Hasan is a poster on a lion group on facebook. He isn't a guide or involved in research on lions.
Some information from Madikwe (Shared by Red Devil originally.) -
As he told me, the older 258 kg figure from Madikwe is a typo/inaccurate.
One of the Batia males was 245 kg empty.
Some new information coming from Madikwe Lion Game Reserve.
Kwandwe, the large lion mentioned earlier to be 270 kg was never weighed. Head Guide Mr. William Knight again confirmed that the weight of 270 kg was an estimate and a more reasonable, realistic estimate for Kwandwe would be 230 - 240 kg.
Information about the lion Batia was correct, he was 248 kg empty.
Now, one thing also clear is that the male lion of 258 kg mentioned way earlier was definitely a typo. The actual value was 248 kg instead.
01-24-2022, 04:25 PM( This post was last modified: 01-29-2022, 07:37 PM by SpinoRex )
Information about the Madikwe Lions to come to a final conclusion.
Overall there were 3 mails that has been sent. The first mail actually was a conversation between a staff member and the head guide that was forwarded to a user. The second mail was connected to the first mail as the guy asked about confirmation, which was given at the end. The 3rd mail is completely different and the weight as well. Btw im prettty sure that Kwandwe and Momohole were the biggest of the park, which is the same result others got quite quickly looking at the lions there. Even if he was 270kg he had stomach content though. 2 mails are confirming the weight and 1 is completely different. Next step would be to get a final result... the ones who wrote the mails are asking again right now... at least 2 of the 3 mentioned above.
1- Mail: Forwarded Conversation
*This image is copyright of its original author
2- Confirmation and Batia male Infos
*This image is copyright of its original author
3- Another mail with completely different results but confirmation of the batia male
*This image is copyright of its original author
So as it seems there is still something to do about this lion named Kwandwe. 2 mails agreeing and 1 disagreement. But the batia male is one of the largest male comfortably with a weight of 248 kg on a empty stomach
Modern Weights and Measurements of Wild Lions
