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Modern Weights and Measurements of Wild Cougars
Modern Weights and Measurements of Wild Cougars
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Modern Weights and Measurements of Wild Cougars
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 (08-12-2020, 01:53 AM)Luipaard Wrote:Quote:The heaviest weighed leopard was an specimen from West Africa who yielded 96 kg (unknown amount of stomach content), and recently we have seen some males from Iran surpassing 90 kg in weight, with one topping at 95 kg, Persian leopards, in my opinion, being the heaviest and largest population. Quote:The heaviest leopard, at this moment, is a 96kg male leopard from Valencia, Namibia (from The Hunter or the Hunted: An Introduction to African Cave Taphonomy). Not sure where you got that West African specimen from. This, of course is if we exclude the 115kg injured Persian leopard and the Indian leopard Balaji (116kg when captured). Yes, that is exactly where I got it from, Namibia is southern West Africa. The 115 kg Persian leopard was quickly corrected as a mistake, his real weight was 95 kg which is the weight that I mentioned in my initial reply:  *This image is copyright of its original author Balaji was an obese leopard who's real weight was never verified, even if he did surpass 100 kg of weight, it would've been the result of copious layers of fat which don't represent an accurate depiction of a healthy individual. Any obese cat will show weights much higher than what the normal average is, we even have obese captive lions pushing 400 kg, they do not represent healthy individuals and as such aren't counted in official weight records. Balaji didn't possess a large frame either, when compared to the men around it in this picture, one can see that he isn't necessarily big, just very obese, and his fat spreads around his body. I have seen leopards with more impressive frames who were much healthier:  *This image is copyright of its original author No reliable record exists of a leopard surpassing 100 kg that was not obese. Quote:Those were 2 leopards caught in snares and therefore in bad condition, they were far from healthy and below 50kg. Also are you aware that these countries are in conflict with poachers and bushmeat hunters? There are leopard populations in Gabon who have to coexist with bushmeat hunters (who target the same prey i.e. duiker & red river hogs). Luckily there are area's where they are undisturbed and this is where you can find healthy leopard populations. I did mention they were in bad condition, hence my use of the term "dire", but even if that was the case, their weight as healthy individuals would not have approached anywhere close to 100 or 90 kg from that initial start point of less than 50 kg. If we give them 20 more kilograms at around 65-70 kg, that would put them right beside large leopards of different populations such as Sri Lanka, but wouldn't make them bigger. The second claim of the bushmeat hunters further solidifies my claim, these leopards already consume smaller prey in smaller quantities than leopards from savanna biomes, and if you add the extra pressure from human competition, that would reduce both the biomass and the frequency of predation. Animals size reflect the biomass of the prey they consume and the regularity of such consumption, at 29 kg, the biomass of the prey Central African leopards consumes is lower than that of savanna individuals, and the congregations of animals in the rainforest is also much lower than what savanna leopards have at their disposal. Quote:What @peter also mentioned, is that their skulls are heavier (heavier teeth too) and more robust compared to other leopard populations. So you do acknowledge that Persian leopards are one of the larger leopard subspecies/populations but Central African leopards somehow are smaller than savannah leopards (ca.60-65kg) despite having skulls as large as Persian leopards? I'm not just talking about skull length FYI. I would let Peter clarify what he really meant with that statement as he has had access to those skulls himself, but SCI records have shown several leopards with scores just as high as Persian leopards from savannah ecosystems, and the database on the skull of Central African leopards is more scarce than what's available for savannah leopards, so gaging an average of length with a smaller sample and compare it with that of savanna leopards with a higher sample will yield inaccurate results. You can have a couple of really big rainforest leopard skulls found, but 10 more who are significantly smaller undiscovered, and if you retain those two large skulls the impression will be that they are the bigger population compared to savanna leopards who have a wider range of sizes and a higher number of them, including once again, some as big and bigger than the ones found in Central Africa. Skull measurements are not reliable sources to determine size because there are several factors that could play a role in the size of an animal's skull, including genetics and predisposition to develop different morphological traits from a different population due to environmental differences i.e. Siberian tigers having longer skulls than Bengal tigers, yet Bengals being larger in the wild. Direct weight measurements are as accurate as you can get with weight, you are literally measuring the mass of the animal directly, and any form of stomach content found in it can be deducted afterwards to get a more precise and accurate result. Finally, footage is not a scientifically nor accurate way of determining size because there are different factors that play a role in one's perception of said footage. An animal can look impressive from a specific angle of a picture or video, including how close it is to the camera, and the personal biases of the person looking at the footage also play a role in the perception they get from the images. Furthermore, with the footage that is available right now (if we are going to use), rainforest leopards are shown as very muscular but not necessarily bigger than other populations, especially savanna leopards. And based on the weights that we do have of them, the fact that the prey biomass is lower than their savanna cousins, and the few skull records available which don't really provide an accurate estimation of their size or weight, I don't see any reasons to suggest that they are any bigger than their savanna cousins, let alone the biggest population of leopards in the world.  (08-12-2020, 07:51 AM)Balam Wrote:Quote:Those were 2 leopards caught in snares and therefore in bad condition, they were far from healthy and below 50kg. Also are you aware that these countries are in conflict with poachers and bushmeat hunters? There are leopard populations in Gabon who have to coexist with bushmeat hunters (who target the same prey i.e. duiker & red river hogs). Luckily there are area's where they are undisturbed and this is where you can find healthy leopard populations. One small problem. There was an adult male Persian Leopard measured at 40 kg, with a few in the 40-45 kg and 45-50 kg range. However, many surpass 70 kg. This indicates while there will be a handful of smaller Congo Leopards in one area, there could easily be many 70-90 kg specimens that are not yet measured in a better part of the country or eco-region. It is probable that parts of Congo currently has the highest proportion of 70-80 kg or 80 + kg males still roaming around. This can also be applied to South African Leopards, where one part of the country will have 41 kg average Leopards, while another national park or mountain range will have a 60-70 kg average weight of Leopards. Also, which Siberian Tigers are you talking about? The ones in the 80s and before were the largest subspecies, while the contemporary ones are smaller than Bengal Tigers.
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Quote:This indicates while there will be a handful of smaller Congo Leopards in one area, there could easily be many 70-90 kg specimens that are not yet measured in a better part of the country or eco-region. No, it doesn't work that way. The rainforest ecosystem in the Congo is much different than the one in South Africa or Iran, and one can't simply compare one population and expect the same results for the other one within baring any differences in the biomass of prey, genetic diversity, etc. There may be some leopards in the Congo who will be around 70+ kg of weight, but there is very little reason to believe that would be the most common result for most animals when the prey they consume smaller than what the other two mentioned populations consume, so guessing 80+ kg leopards in an area that is so understudied solely based on the personal interpretations of a couple of camera traps is receiving and based solely on speculations. I'm mentioning current tiger weights and measurements, where Bengal tigers from the Terai and Assam region far surpass that of Siberian specimens. I thought that was obvious. (08-12-2020, 03:28 PM)Balam Wrote: @We could see freak sized leopards in central Africa but there is a war going on and the research would be hard to conduct because the Congo is one of the toughest environment in the world. I still want to see how a leopards claws,skull size,teeth, forelimbs, and dimensions compare to a cougars someone could even do it between the smallest of the two and then the two at parity 
86.1 kg male.
https://tonyrogers.com/humor/big_mountain_lion.htm  *This image is copyright of its original author ''Taken by Roy Hisler of Duval, Washington, in the central Cascades near Bellevue, Washington, on 22 December 2002. According to a news release from the Kansas Department of Wildlife and Parks (KDWP), this picture appeared in the Fall 2003 issue of Fair Chase magazine (a Boone and Crockett Club publication dedicated to hunting and conservation of North American big game) and actually depicts a mountain lion taken near Seattle, Washington. The Trophy Watch section of the Boone and Crockett Club's web site and a thread posted on the message board of the 24 Hour Campfire web site by Jim Hackewitz, one of the men who participated in the hunt, provide the additional information that the mountain lion was taken by Roy Hisler of Duval, Washington, in the central Cascades near Bellevue, Washington, on 22 December 2002, that it weighed 190 pounds, and that Jim Hackewitz, who is pictured holding it, is 5'10" tall. ''  (12-10-2020, 10:22 PM)Pckts Wrote: The largest Skull measured by Almeida from Brazil scored 14.93 and weighed 58kg And here is the SCI Top 10 North American Scores 01/2019 Alberta, Cochrane R 16 2/16" 01/2013 Alberta, Carrot Creek Buck Creek Guide Svc. / Ryan Anderson R 16 1/16" 12/2001 Colo., Archuleta Co. Mike Ray / Lobo Outfitters H 16" 01/1985 B.C., Okanagan Marc Hubbard / Okanagan Outfitters R 15 15/16" 12/1992 B.C., Canim Lake Stuart Maitland / Eureka Peak Out. R 15 15/16" 03/2003 New Mexico, Rio Arriba Co. Cougar Mtn. Outfitters R 15 13/16" 12/2010 Arizona, White Mtns. Apache Res. K.B. Outfitters / Kelly McBride R 15 12/16" 03/2019 B.C., Peace River Jeff Baher Trophy Hunting / Jeff Baher R 15 12/16" 01/2007 Idaho, Allison Creek Ace Out. H 15 11/16" 01/1972 N.Mex., Black Mts. Orvel Fletcher R 15 10/16" Top 10 SCI South American Scores 06/2006 Argentina, La Pampa R 16 13/16" 06/2002 Argentina, Malbran Francisco J. Pizarro / Anuritay Ranch H 16 3/16" 06/2011 Argentina, San Martin Cerro Indio Safaris / Gonzalo Llambi B 16 1/16" 05/2000 Argentina, Malbran Francisco J. Pizarro / Anuritay Ranch H 16" 03/2003 Argentina, Malbran Francisco J. Pizarro / Anuritay Ranch R 15 9/16" 06/2010 Argentina, Malbran Anuritay Ranch / Carlos Barthe R 15 7/16" 08/2011 Argentina, Malbran Anuritay Ranch / Francisco J. Pizarro R 15 7/16" 10/2003 Argentina, Neuquen Algar Safaris R 15 6/16" 06/1998 Argentina, Guatrache R 15 5/16" 10/2018 Argentina, La Pampa Los Molles / Juan Carlos Wagner R 15 5/16"
More information on Patagonia specimens.
I had a talk today again with the biologist Wayaja Vargas who is by far one of the most knowledgeable people on cougars from the Chilean Patagonia, he sent me the following study in which the weights for a few captures specimens were recorded: From; EL PUMA, ANTECEDENTES DE SU CONSERVACIÓN Y MANEJO EN MAGALLANES, by Jose Cabello  *This image is copyright of its original author Size and weight The cougars that inhabit the region of Magallanes are considered the largest representatives of their species alongside those found in Canada, reaching an average weight between 65 to 85 kg, in contrast to those from Central America that average 30 kg. In Magallanes the males have a weight range from 45 to 70 kg. Three males captured by us weighed 63.5, 65, and 70 kg. According to literature, males are up to 60% heavier than females, situation corroborated by our fieldwork: 2 captured females weighed 40 kg each, unlike the males whom all surpassed 60 kg in sight (average of 66 kg)  *This image is copyright of its original author Adult male of 7 years of age and a sight of 70 kg. Captured in the Laguna Azul area  *This image is copyright of its original author Top: female of three years of age Bottom: male of seven years of age Wayaja reiterated to me that the one male captured in Torres del Paine National Park did weight 110 kg, but the team that captured him lost track of him as he left the area. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be scientific records on this male, but he's an authority on these cats and the information provided on that specimen is very valuable. I asked him what his estimations would be the very popular dominant tom Nahuel is, whom I've posted here numerous times, and he said he thinks he weighs between 95 and 100 kg. Then he told me that Nahuel is not the largest tom in the reserve, he's seen a larger male named El Loco (Crazy in English), whom he estimates weighs 110 kg, similar to the captured male whose tracks were lost: Nahuel or Oscuro (Dark)  *This image is copyright of its original author El Loco  *This image is copyright of its original author
CHART FOR MODERN RECORDS OF COUGAR WEIGHTS - PATAGONIA
 *This image is copyright of its original author It appears that the males consistently average around 70 kg in the region. For the two males under 70 kg captured in Laguna Azul, Chile, and the one from Monte Leon, Argentina, age is not provided and they may represent young adults of around 4 years of age. A lot of females from the Elbroch et al. were subadults at the moment of capture, therefore the average of 35.6 kg might not be accurate for adult females from that particular population.
Weights for adult cougars of over 24 months of age from Torres del Paine National Park, Chile. From Ecology of the Patagonia puma Felis concolor patagonica in southern Chile, by Franklin et al.
 *This image is copyright of its original author The males in this study averaged ~76 kg in weight, here no range is given to know how much the heaviest and lighter ones weighed. The females averaged close to 50 kg which is really impressive and the highest average for Patagonian specimens for both sexes recorded. Unfortunately, I cannot include the weights in the table of data compilation as the individual values are not given, though I'm sure that if we were to include these weights, plus those from Suquist, our sample size would be of 18 individuals and well above 70 kg in average, my guess is around 72-73 kg. It seems plausible that Patagonian cougars are indeed the largest of their species being slightly heavier than Rocky Mountains individuals, but the difference seems to be minimal and plenty of overlap occurs; and solidifying their position as 4th largest extant felid comfortably. 
Body measurements for 43 cougars from Alberta:
 *This image is copyright of its original author
Weights from Macdonald et al. 2010:
 *This image is copyright of its original author
A myth seems to be floating around claiming that cougars from the Araucania region of Chile "average 40 kg" in weight, thus reducing the overall average for the Patagonian ecotype. This, of course, is completely false. From the book "Puma Araucano, Vida en una Dimension Paralela" by Fernando Vigal Mugica, the morphology of cougars based on his team's capture and overall appearance is given:
 *This image is copyright of its original author "Its height and body weight fluctuate notably between the different populations of Chile and accross the Americas. These differences can be considerable even when comparing the weight or mass of specimens of a same age and sex. This is how a 3-year-old male in La Araucanía can weigh 30 kg and a specimen of Magallanes, 70 kg."  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author "Males are generally larger, surpassing the females in about a 40% by mass or weight. During the years of observation and study of the species, the greatest weight or mass that we were able to register was that of a five-year-old male with 60 kg of weight. The rest of the specimens never exceeded 50 kg. However, we have heard testimonies from people who in the past hunted 80 kg specimens in the Araucanía. For our part, during a field trip in the course of this investigation we managed to make eye contact with a specimen that, according to our calculations, may well have weighed 80 kg or more."  *This image is copyright of its original author "In contrast, other scholars indicate that the skulls of pumas show growth up to a certain stage of their life, being that of females up to 5 or 6 years of age, while, in the males, this growth can manifest up to 7 or 9 years of life. According to our studies based on morphometric measurements recorded in catches and recaptures of adult animals, we can conclude that both males and females not only register growth in their skull throughout their life, but also in their mass and morphometric measurements general." From this initial excerpt, it is noted that the accurate body mass of adult males should stabilize at around 7 years of age, the heaviest male captured by them weighed 60 kg and was estimated as being 5 years old, the older lesser sized males are not given age estimations, but it is very likely that these were young adults yet to reach their full-size potential as one male mentioned by them to have weighed 30 kg was estimated as a 3-year-old, still a sub-adult. He then proceeds to speak of an adult male from that same area they estimated as being 80 kg or more in body mass. Then from the paper: PUMA CONCOLOR COMO AMENAZA PARA GANADEROS DE CAUTÍN, REGIÓN DE LA ARAUCANÍA, Y EVALUACIÓN DE PERROS PROTECTORES DE REBAÑO COMO HERRAMIENTA DE MITIGACIÓN DEL CONFLICTO. By Christian Sepulveda Cabrera, the following data is given:  *This image is copyright of its original author "Data of the Metrenco veterinary clinic that receives pumas captured by the SAG of Region IX and investigations by Vidal and Sanderson (2012) of pumas in Araucanía indicate that Juvenile males weigh around 36 kg, while adult females weigh between 24 and 30 kg." Once again, the low values for the weights of males are indicative of juvenile (i.e. sub-adult) individuals, and therefore cannot be taken as an accurate outlook on cougars from that area. The author does allude that cougars from the rainforest of southern Chile (Araucania) are smaller than those from the open areas of the Patagonia, but this is due to the smaller prey biomass and prey availability found here, as the largest native prey is the pudu, the world's smallest deer, which seldomly surpasses 10 kg in weight. Feral hogs may be present in this area as well which would allow some males, as the 80+ kg estimated aforementioned before, to reach sizes comparable to those of surrounding areas. That same paper also references the exceptional weight claimed for some males of reaching sizes of 120 kg, this claim comes from Iriarte and is eachoed in the study: REVISIÓN ACTUALIZADA SOBRE LA BIODIVERSIDAD Y CONSERVACIÓN DE LOS FELINOS SILVESTRES DE CHILE:  *This image is copyright of its original author "However, molecular studies (Culver et al., 2000; Johnson et al., 2005) suggest a phylogeographic division of 6 subspecies, finding a subspecies (P. concolor puma) in our country. High degrees of gene flow reported in different molecular studies (Culver et al., 2000) suggest that the total number of subspecies could be lower. According to the subdivision ancient, 4 subspecies of the 32 described in America would be recognized: Puma concolor incarum that it is distributed from the south of Ecuador and Peru to the north of Chile (AricaParinacota, Tarapacá and Antofagasta regions), from sea level to 5,200 meters; P. c. cougar what it occupies the central zone, especially mountain range, between Coquimbo (30 ° S) and Valdivia (40 ° S); P. c. araucana, which is the smallest and inhabits between the Araucanía and Los Lagos Regions, extending in Argentina through the southwest of Neuquén and west of Río Negro; finally, P. c. patagonica that lives in steppe areas of the Aysén and Magallanes Regions. This last subspecies is the largest on a continental level, with specimens exceeding 120 kilos (Parera, 2002; Iriarte, 2008; Iriarte & Jaksic, 2012)." The claims of 120 kg should be taken with a grain of salt as we don't have the primary source for them, but what is clear is that the largest specimens from this geographical area are capable of surpassing 100 kg in weight, being the 4th largest cats in the world, and the supposed 40 kg average does not come from adult males and is not an accurate indicator of the average size of males from that region.
"It is with joy that we communicate the success of the capture of the first puma of the #deltadosalobra, in this click of the biologist of the #oncafari @joaobachur!
It is a beautiful male, named Salobra, weighing 51.3 kg, very healthy, young, which will be monitored for a year, bringing us a lot of information about the occurrence of the species in the region, as well as helping us in its protection. We have 12 more days of catches and the wait for 2 jaguars! Congratulations to the dedicated @oncafari team! Every procedure performed without any stress, with countless data obtained and in a short period of time for an action of such precision and care." This a young male so still not a prime individual but nice to see another cougar captured by Oncafari in the Pantanal! This makes two males so far, of 51.3, and 64 kg respectively. Hopefully, jaguars from Da Ilha will be captured next. |
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