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Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars

United States Pckts Online
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#61

(11-21-2019, 02:42 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:
(11-21-2019, 05:44 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(11-21-2019, 03:08 AM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: credits: Onçafari 


BRUTUS

*This image is copyright of its original author

Brutus: Brutus is a dominant cutted tailed male Jag in Refúgio Ecológico Caiman reserve, Southern Pantanal here in Brazil. He was one of the Jaguars that was spotted climbing Esperança's (female) tree. He possesses large rossetes around his body and he was given this name because of his large size. These pics were taken around 2 years ago and the Onçafari researchers at that time puted a radio colar with GPS on him and they have also measured him with 118 kilos / 260.145 lbs.  Here is the original post of Onçafari stating his weight  ( in                                portuguese). https://www.facebook.com/Oncafari/photos/a.275374992488885/2191319404227758/?type=3

*This image is copyright of its original author

So I would assume that maybe he is even bigger now.



*This image is copyright of its original author

Dirty,muddy Brutus  Funny



credits: Onçafari



In this video when Brutus spent most of his time around the Refúgio Ecológico Caiman, you can see how big he was in videos.

They estimated him to be 130kg now, I posted about him a few posts back as well, you can see it on post #44

That's really interesting I bet he can achieve Adriano's weight. After all these conservation projects and some deals with farmers for livestock. In your personal opinion what's the AVERAGE size of a Pantanal north/south male and female Jaguar TODAY ???
I'm not the biggest fan of using averages, I know they are much higher today than when Almeida made his hunts.
He never caught any Jaguars over 119kg except for a few he estimated to be around 130kg but now a days with the new protections to both Jaguars and Caiman we've seen many Jaguars over 130kg and up to 148kg with Adriano being possibly larger but that remains to be confirmed and since a few Jags there are even larger than Adriano who knows for sure.

Long Story short just to answer your question
Males in the Pantanal should average around 115kg while females should be around 80kg. 
But I think in a specific part of the North *meeting of the 3 rivers* will produce the largest Jags on earth and most likely those numbers would be increased there.
Also, the North should have slightly higher averages than the South as well but I've seen some decent sized cats out of Oncafari with a couple over 130kg's as well so im sure they're close overall.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
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Brazil Dark Jaguar Offline
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#62

(11-21-2019, 04:19 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(11-21-2019, 02:42 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:
(11-21-2019, 05:44 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(11-21-2019, 03:08 AM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: credits: Onçafari 


BRUTUS

*This image is copyright of its original author

Brutus: Brutus is a dominant cutted tailed male Jag in Refúgio Ecológico Caiman reserve, Southern Pantanal here in Brazil. He was one of the Jaguars that was spotted climbing Esperança's (female) tree. He possesses large rossetes around his body and he was given this name because of his large size. These pics were taken around 2 years ago and the Onçafari researchers at that time puted a radio colar with GPS on him and they have also measured him with 118 kilos / 260.145 lbs.  Here is the original post of Onçafari stating his weight  ( in                                portuguese). https://www.facebook.com/Oncafari/photos/a.275374992488885/2191319404227758/?type=3

*This image is copyright of its original author

So I would assume that maybe he is even bigger now.



*This image is copyright of its original author

Dirty,muddy Brutus  Funny



credits: Onçafari



In this video when Brutus spent most of his time around the Refúgio Ecológico Caiman, you can see how big he was in videos.

They estimated him to be 130kg now, I posted about him a few posts back as well, you can see it on post #44

That's really interesting I bet he can achieve Adriano's weight. After all these conservation projects and some deals with farmers for livestock. In your personal opinion what's the AVERAGE size of a Pantanal north/south male and female Jaguar TODAY ???
I'm not the biggest fan of using averages, I know they are much higher today than when Almeida made his hunts.
He never caught any Jaguars over 119kg except for a few he estimated to be around 130kg but now a days with the new protections to both Jaguars and Caiman we've seen many Jaguars over 130kg and up to 148kg with Adriano being possibly larger but that remains to be confirmed and since a few Jags there are even larger than Adriano who knows for sure.

Long Story short just to answer your question
Males in the Pantanal should average around 115kg while females should be around 80kg. 
But I think in a specific part of the North *meeting of the 3 rivers* will produce the largest Jags on earth and most likely those numbers would be increased there.
Also, the North should have slightly higher averages than the South as well but I've seen some decent sized cats out of Oncafari with a couple over 130kg's as well so im sure they're close overall.
I am not the biggest fan of using averages either and that's exactly my thoughts, and I'm sure they have the potential to surpass Adriano in size so yes there might be unknown monsters out there in the Pantanal larger than him, and back to the averages subject there's a website of animal versus animal discussion and they say the average Pantanal male Jaguar is only 94/96kg, I'm like ''what the hell'' and the thing is that some of them get that info from wikipedia, if wikipedia thinks the average pantanal male jaguar wheights only 94/96kg... wikipedia should update themselves. But yeah like I said that's exactly how big I think they are TODAY and yeah in the southern Pantanal there are big ones as well even females like Nusa, she's very big. and to wrap up like I said in the beginning I don't like this average thing either.
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United States Pckts Online
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#63

That average is from Almeida, we have correspondence with Rafeal and Fernando from Panthera that quotes there average at 100kg but the fact is, you can look through the recent weights with many well over 119kg mark that will raise those averages quite a bit.
Almeida never weighed any above 119kg now we have verified weights of quite a few 130kg and over and I know first hand that the Panatanal has at least 2-3 in the meetings of 3 rivers that are larger than Adriano.
Adriano was told to me that he was 130kg but Fernando wasn't with Panthera when he wwas weighed and Paulo said panthera told him in the past that Adriano was 158kg, I prefer to use the 130kg mark just to be safe. 
Even if you use Almeidas mark, Almeida himself knew of a couple that he thought were 130kg at least and with skull measurements of 22" or more total score.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
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Brazil Dark Jaguar Offline
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#64

(11-22-2019, 01:18 AM)Pckts Wrote: That average is from Almeida, we have correspondence with Rafeal and Fernando from Panthera that quotes there average at 100kg but the fact is, you can look through the recent weights with many well over 119kg mark that will raise those averages quite a bit.
Almeida never weighed any above 119kg now we have verified weights of quite a few 130kg and over and I know first hand that the Panatanal has at least 2-3 in the meetings of 3 rivers that are larger than Adriano.
Adriano was told to me that he was 130kg but Fernando wasn't with Panthera when he wwas weighed and Paulo said panthera told him in the past that Adriano was 158kg, I prefer to use the 130kg mark just to be safe. 
Even if you use Almeidas mark, Almeida himself knew of a couple that he thought were 130kg at least and with skull measurements of 22" or more total score.
Adriano's weight is still a mistery right hahahah

I think the average weight from Almeida times should stick to the past, after so many giants ones nowadays right? and also more prey variety too. 

So I would say (just to be safe) 110/115kg male and 80kg female.

but I am not gonna lie, it still triggers me when they say in the VS debates ''a male from pantanal averages 94/96kg so bla,bla,bla'' 

Wikipedia needs an update right now  Funny
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United States Pckts Online
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#65

Oncafari
November is the #MonthOftheJaguar and we’ll be showing some curious facts about those amazing big cats! Today we’re talking about size and weight

The jaguar is the largest cat in the Americas, and the third largest cat in the world, after the tiger and the lion. On average, they weigh between 65 and 100 kilograms, but males weighing over 148 kilograms have previously been registered.
Body length, from the snout to the tip of the tail, can reach 2.5 meters, while their withers (height from the front paw to the scapula) measure 85 centimeters in height.

"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
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Belgium Luipaard Offline
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#66

(11-22-2019, 01:46 AM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:
(11-22-2019, 01:18 AM)Pckts Wrote: That average is from Almeida, we have correspondence with Rafeal and Fernando from Panthera that quotes there average at 100kg but the fact is, you can look through the recent weights with many well over 119kg mark that will raise those averages quite a bit.
Almeida never weighed any above 119kg now we have verified weights of quite a few 130kg and over and I know first hand that the Panatanal has at least 2-3 in the meetings of 3 rivers that are larger than Adriano.
Adriano was told to me that he was 130kg but Fernando wasn't with Panthera when he wwas weighed and Paulo said panthera told him in the past that Adriano was 158kg, I prefer to use the 130kg mark just to be safe. 
Even if you use Almeidas mark, Almeida himself knew of a couple that he thought were 130kg at least and with skull measurements of 22" or more total score.
Adriano's weight is still a mistery right hahahah

I think the average weight from Almeida times should stick to the past, after so many giants ones nowadays right? and also more prey variety too. 

So I would say (just to be safe) 110/115kg male and 80kg female.

but I am not gonna lie, it still triggers me when they say in the VS debates ''a male from pantanal averages 94/96kg so bla,bla,bla'' 

Wikipedia needs an update right now  Funny

They'll still average around 100 to 110kg though. A jaguar above 120kg is considered a big male so I doubt they'll average 115kg.
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United States Pckts Online
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#67
( This post was last modified: 03-18-2020, 08:58 PM by Pckts )

Shaka 132kg
Scare 115kg
Ounce 130kg
Brutus 130kg *most likely*
Adriano 130kg
142kg record jag empty

130kg average for modern day weights through Oncafari and Panthera.


I think that average is also high but certainly somewhere in the middle is reasonable and considering we've only seen larger weights now a days, 115kg average for Pantanal Males is with in reason.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
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Brazil Dark Jaguar Offline
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#68
( This post was last modified: 12-03-2019, 01:32 AM by Dark Jaguar )

(12-02-2019, 04:03 PM)Luipaard Wrote:
(11-22-2019, 01:46 AM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:
(11-22-2019, 01:18 AM)Pckts Wrote: That average is from Almeida, we have correspondence with Rafeal and Fernando from Panthera that quotes there average at 100kg but the fact is, you can look through the recent weights with many well over 119kg mark that will raise those averages quite a bit.
Almeida never weighed any above 119kg now we have verified weights of quite a few 130kg and over and I know first hand that the Panatanal has at least 2-3 in the meetings of 3 rivers that are larger than Adriano.
Adriano was told to me that he was 130kg but Fernando wasn't with Panthera when he wwas weighed and Paulo said panthera told him in the past that Adriano was 158kg, I prefer to use the 130kg mark just to be safe. 
Even if you use Almeidas mark, Almeida himself knew of a couple that he thought were 130kg at least and with skull measurements of 22" or more total score.
Adriano's weight is still a mistery right hahahah

I think the average weight from Almeida times should stick to the past, after so many giants ones nowadays right? and also more prey variety too. 

So I would say (just to be safe) 110/115kg male and 80kg female.

but I am not gonna lie, it still triggers me when they say in the VS debates ''a male from pantanal averages 94/96kg so bla,bla,bla'' 

Wikipedia needs an update right now  Funny

They'll still average around 100 to 110kg though. A jaguar above 120kg is considered a big male so I doubt they'll average 115kg.

Fantasma male 120/125 at old age, Felino male 110 at just 5 years, Monteiro male 115, Sombra 135, Sossego 133/138, Hero big male I am sure he is over 125kg easily and alot more I have no time to name all the ones I know at moment. (without mention the unknown ones).

Jaguars nowadays are not like the ones from the times when they were almost hunted to extinction like 30/40 years ago when even their preys were hunted not allowing them to grow at their full potential like today we have projects to save the species conservationists, deals with farmers to allow jaguars to feed on a certain portion of their cattles cause jags brings tourists to the area there's also increase in population of caimans and other sources of preys so if you think a 120kg male pantanal jag is big... welcome to the pantanal cause thats what they are, they're big.
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United States Pckts Online
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#69

(12-03-2019, 01:32 AM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:
(12-02-2019, 04:03 PM)Luipaard Wrote:
(11-22-2019, 01:46 AM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:
(11-22-2019, 01:18 AM)Pckts Wrote: That average is from Almeida, we have correspondence with Rafeal and Fernando from Panthera that quotes there average at 100kg but the fact is, you can look through the recent weights with many well over 119kg mark that will raise those averages quite a bit.
Almeida never weighed any above 119kg now we have verified weights of quite a few 130kg and over and I know first hand that the Panatanal has at least 2-3 in the meetings of 3 rivers that are larger than Adriano.
Adriano was told to me that he was 130kg but Fernando wasn't with Panthera when he wwas weighed and Paulo said panthera told him in the past that Adriano was 158kg, I prefer to use the 130kg mark just to be safe. 
Even if you use Almeidas mark, Almeida himself knew of a couple that he thought were 130kg at least and with skull measurements of 22" or more total score.
Adriano's weight is still a mistery right hahahah

I think the average weight from Almeida times should stick to the past, after so many giants ones nowadays right? and also more prey variety too. 

So I would say (just to be safe) 110/115kg male and 80kg female.

but I am not gonna lie, it still triggers me when they say in the VS debates ''a male from pantanal averages 94/96kg so bla,bla,bla'' 

Wikipedia needs an update right now  Funny

They'll still average around 100 to 110kg though. A jaguar above 120kg is considered a big male so I doubt they'll average 115kg.

Fantasma male 120/125 at old age, Felino male 110 at just 5 years, Monteiro male 115, Sombra 135, Sossego 133/138, Hero big male I am sure he is over 125kg easily and alot more I have no time to name all the ones I know at moment. (without mention the unknown ones).

Jaguars nowadays are not like the ones from the times when they were almost hunted to extinction like 30/40 years ago when even their preys were hunted not allowing them to grow at their full potential like today we have projects to save the species conservationists, deals with farmers to allow jaguars to feed on a certain portion of their cattles cause jags brings tourists to the area there's also increase in population of caimans and other sources of preys so if you think a 120kg male pantanal jag is big... welcome to the pantanal cause thats what they are, they're big.

Shaka 132kg
Scare 115kg
Ounce 130kg
Brutus 130kg *most likely*
Adriano 130kg
148kg record jag empty


ones above added to the ones I listed
Fantasma 120kg
Felino 110kg
Monteiro 115kg
Sombra 135kg'
Sossego 133kg
Hero 125kg

New Average
116kg for 12 males from N. and S. Pantanal 
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
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Brazil Dark Jaguar Offline
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#70

(12-03-2019, 01:46 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(12-03-2019, 01:32 AM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:
(12-02-2019, 04:03 PM)Luipaard Wrote:
(11-22-2019, 01:46 AM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:
(11-22-2019, 01:18 AM)Pckts Wrote: That average is from Almeida, we have correspondence with Rafeal and Fernando from Panthera that quotes there average at 100kg but the fact is, you can look through the recent weights with many well over 119kg mark that will raise those averages quite a bit.
Almeida never weighed any above 119kg now we have verified weights of quite a few 130kg and over and I know first hand that the Panatanal has at least 2-3 in the meetings of 3 rivers that are larger than Adriano.
Adriano was told to me that he was 130kg but Fernando wasn't with Panthera when he wwas weighed and Paulo said panthera told him in the past that Adriano was 158kg, I prefer to use the 130kg mark just to be safe. 
Even if you use Almeidas mark, Almeida himself knew of a couple that he thought were 130kg at least and with skull measurements of 22" or more total score.
Adriano's weight is still a mistery right hahahah

I think the average weight from Almeida times should stick to the past, after so many giants ones nowadays right? and also more prey variety too. 

So I would say (just to be safe) 110/115kg male and 80kg female.

but I am not gonna lie, it still triggers me when they say in the VS debates ''a male from pantanal averages 94/96kg so bla,bla,bla'' 

Wikipedia needs an update right now  Funny

They'll still average around 100 to 110kg though. A jaguar above 120kg is considered a big male so I doubt they'll average 115kg.

Fantasma male 120/125 at old age, Felino male 110 at just 5 years, Monteiro male 115, Sombra 135, Sossego 133/138, Hero big male I am sure he is over 125kg easily and alot more I have no time to name all the ones I know at moment. (without mention the unknown ones).

Jaguars nowadays are not like the ones from the times when they were almost hunted to extinction like 30/40 years ago when even their preys were hunted not allowing them to grow at their full potential like today we have projects to save the species conservationists, deals with farmers to allow jaguars to feed on a certain portion of their cattles cause jags brings tourists to the area there's also increase in population of caimans and other sources of preys so if you think a 120kg male pantanal jag is big... welcome to the pantanal cause thats what they are, they're big.

Shaka 132kg
Scare 115kg
Ounce 130kg
Brutus 130kg *most likely*
Adriano 130kg
148kg record jag empty


ones above added to the ones I listed
Fantasma 120kg
Felino 110kg
Monteiro 115kg
Sombra 135kg'
Sossego 133kg
Hero 125kg

New Average
116kg for 12 males from N. and S. Pantanal 
Yeah and this is Sossego male sadly he is no longer with us he was found dead in 2015 at Rio Negro bay with a cheek fracture to the skull and there's a huge chance of him being killed by poachers ( that wouldn't surprise me ) and many people already believe he was and shot to death, some states there's already confirmation from the damaged skull on the side.
I could never forget about Sossego when it comes to very big males hehe.


*This image is copyright of its original author


posted by: Fazenda Barranco Alto



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Brazil Dark Jaguar Offline
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#71

credits: Onça Pantaneira Project



Male Jag monitored weighting 128 kilos in 2008



*This image is copyright of its original author


''Among the animals captured in July, the highlight is the largest male captured so far by the Project team. About seven years old, the large male weighed 128kg and was found after preying on a heifer at Nossa Senhora do Carmo farm, neighboring the São Bento farm and which has been giving great support to the project's activities in the region.''  - Onça Pantaneira Project



check out the original post (in portuguese) and the pic in better quality.  (note. the one in the bottom is a female)

 http://procarnivoros.org.br/wp_ipc/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Boletim-informativo-Projeto-Onca-Pantaneira_04.pdf
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#72


*This image is copyright of its original author
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
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United States Pckts Online
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#73

Not a wild Jag but I didn't want to start a new thread for captive Jaguar weights.
112kg at his prime is a large captive Jag, that's for sure.

*This image is copyright of its original author
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
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Brazil Dark Jaguar Offline
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#74
( This post was last modified: 12-21-2019, 09:50 AM by Dark Jaguar )

credits: onçafari

                  Zico male

I was wondering about his weight for a while and thankfully onçafari updated their website and they provided his weight at 110kg

https://oncafari.org/animal/zico/


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#75

(09-17-2019, 09:50 PM)Pckts Wrote:
*This image is copyright of its original author

as stated in post #45, this guy was not 330lbs but he was shot by Ken Vaughn and his score was 20 4/16'' with an estimated weight from Almeida of at least 130kg empty. 

Yes you are correct about that jaguar being the one taken by Ken Vaughn. I had incorrectly assumed it was the one taken by Dave Lauzen as there is a bit of discrepancy in the skull measurements provided. The skull of the huge male taken by Ken Vaughn was measured by Tony Almeida at 20 4/16" using the Boone and Crockett method where the skull length is measured without the mandible. While the same skull measured using the SCI method with mandible attached was 20 6/16" - this "official" record measurement is what Almeida provided on the intro page of his 1976 book. This led me to incorrectly conclude the jaguar was the one taken by Dave Lauzen whose skull Almeida measured at 20 6/16" as listed in the table at the end of his 1990 book. However, it should be noted the skull of Lauzen's jaguar was measured before it was boiled and dried (see pg 239 of his 1990 book) and therefore its true measurements would be smaller.

The main point, however is that the weights of a lot of the big jaguars taken by Almeida were clearly being exaggerated, despite the fact they are very clearly stated in his book.

Also, Tony Almeida did not estimate Ken Vaughn's jaguar at "at least" 130kg as you are for some reason claiming (and thus implying it would've weighed 130kg or more). He said it may have weighed close to 130kg, which means the opposite (ie 130kg would've been the upper estimate not the lower end). He actually states in his 1976 that this enormous jaguar with the record skull probably weighed 5-10kg more than his heaviest recorded at 119kg (therefore around 124-129kg with empty stomach). On page 131 of his 1976 book and on page 121 of his 1990 book he states this jaguar must have weighed "close to 130kg".

From Almeida's 1976 book, Jaguar Hunting in the Matto Grasso.

*This image is copyright of its original author


Quote:I'm not the biggest fan of using averages, I know they are much higher today than when Almeida made his hunts.

He never caught any Jaguars over 119kg except for a few he estimated to be around 130kg but now a days with the new protections to both Jaguars and Caiman we've seen many Jaguars over 130kg and up to 148kg with Adriano being possibly larger but that remains to be confirmed and since a few Jags there are even larger than Adriano who knows for sure


Tony Almeida gave an estimate of "close to 130kg" for only one jaguar he hunted, which he states was the biggest out of nearly 50 adult males from the Pantanal. So how are you claiming that there were a few he estimated around 130kg?

Quote:Shaka 132kg
Scare 115kg
Ounce 130kg
Brutus 130kg *most likely*
Adriano 130kg
148kg record jag empty


The 148kg jaguar was not weighed with an empty stomach. I don't know why you keep making these claims.
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