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Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars

United States Pckts Offline
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#31
( This post was last modified: 04-29-2019, 10:27 PM by Pckts )

No weight provided for him, but he's an absolute tank.
I'd love to know what his weight was as well.

*This image is copyright of its original author
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
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United States ShereKhan Offline
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#32

Ironic that a thread titles Modern weights for jaguars is just full of dead jaguars killed by gutless hunters.

Not really "modern" when it was killed 30 years ago, now is it?
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United States Pckts Offline
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#33

(04-30-2019, 07:58 AM)ShereKhan Wrote: Ironic that a thread titles Modern weights for jaguars is just full of dead jaguars killed by gutless hunters.

Not really "modern" when it was killed 30 years ago, now is it?

Your requirements for modern are different from others, 30 years ago seems fairly modern to me. Also, you have the first page with no hunting photos and weights, I get that you dont like how the weights and photos were obtained but the information is still good and is used by the community. 
Considering to this day Male Jaguars fall between 100-160kg in the pantanal, I'd say these hunting weights fit right in there perfectly, dont they?
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
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Venezuela epaiva Offline
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#34
( This post was last modified: 05-07-2019, 08:24 AM by epaiva )

(04-29-2019, 10:27 PM)Pckts Wrote: No weight provided for him, but he's an absolute tank.
I'd love to know what his weight was as well.

*This image is copyright of its original author

He was a huge Jaguar hunted in 1959 en el Rosero Estado Apure in the Venezuelan Llanos , it weighted 148 kilograms.
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Venezuela epaiva Offline
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#35
( This post was last modified: 05-07-2019, 08:43 AM by epaiva )

Sadly this big and powerful Jaguar was killed recently in Macarena Meta Colombia in Los Llanos very close to the Venezuelan border, no data on its size and weight.
Credit to Armando Castellanos

*This image is copyright of its original author
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Venezuela epaiva Offline
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#36

(04-30-2019, 07:58 AM)ShereKhan Wrote: Ironic that a thread titles Modern weights for jaguars is just full of dead jaguars killed by gutless hunters.

Not really "modern" when it was killed 30 years ago, now is it?

@ShereKhan
It is extremely difficult to spot a Jaguar in the wild, the only place where you can see Wild Jaguars and you see many pictures of them is El Pantanal in Brazil.
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Finland Shadow Offline
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#37

(05-07-2019, 08:48 AM)epaiva Wrote:
(04-30-2019, 07:58 AM)ShereKhan Wrote: Ironic that a thread titles Modern weights for jaguars is just full of dead jaguars killed by gutless hunters.

Not really "modern" when it was killed 30 years ago, now is it?

@ShereKhan
It is extremely difficult to spot a Jaguar in the wild, the only place where you can see Wild Jaguars and you see many pictures of them is El Pantanal in Brazil.
I think, that it depends a bit how we define modern. Many things, like deforestation in many places has been terrible fast. But I think, that last 30-40 years can be considered reasonable modern times, imo. Even though in that time period technology has developed so much, that people now 20 years old would be shocked, if sent back in time 40 years :) But maybe animals are pretty much same as they were back then, unless gone to extinction.
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United States Pckts Offline
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#38
( This post was last modified: 05-08-2019, 01:58 AM by Pckts )

(04-29-2019, 10:27 PM)Pckts Wrote: No weight provided for him, but he's an absolute tank.
I'd love to know what his weight was as well.

*This image is copyright of its original author

What a monster, he was a huge jaguar for sure.
It really is amazing how so many of these guys are over 110kgs, they really are Lioness/Tigress sized cats.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
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United States Pckts Offline
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#39

This is Shaka, a 132 kg male jaguar monitored by us at Onçafari. The scars all over his body show us how brave this guy is.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
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Canada chui_ Offline
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#40

(04-28-2019, 01:53 AM)Pckts Wrote:
*This image is copyright of its original author

262lbs

*This image is copyright of its original author

126kg monster 277lbs!!

*This image is copyright of its original author

330lb local with jaguar RECORD shot by ken vaughn



*This image is copyright of its original author

mrs. tomas fernandez with a record jaguar ; skull 20 8/16


*This image is copyright of its original author

huge male 116kg 255lbs


*This image is copyright of its original author

 131 kg 288 pounds


*This image is copyright of its original author

milton meirelles shot this monster with a skull of 20 2/16



*This image is copyright of its original author

monster 127kg jaguar hunted by hector cuellar 279 pounds

*This image is copyright of its original author

110 kg 242 pounds


*This image is copyright of its original author

knut bellinger with monster 257 pounder


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author

Jaguar Being weighed

Nearly all of the weights you've listed are wrong for those jaguars. Why has no one corrected this here?

Those photos are all of jaguars hunted by the clients of Tony Almeida which are provided in his book, Jaguar Hunting in the Mato Grosso. None of those jaguars were weighed at over 119kg (262lbs).

Funny thing is their true weights and skull measurements were posted by epaiva just a few posts above. At least do a little research.

Once again here are the skull measurements and weights of all those jaguars in the photos you've posted as well as all other males recorded by Tony Alemida. Rather than wasting my time going one by one and correcting all the errors, I'll just point out that the "record jaguar" with its head being held up which you've labelled as "330lb" was actually hunted by Dave Lauzen, it had a skull measuring 20 6/16 inches and was weighed at 112kg (246lb). It had the record skull at the time Almeida's first book was published in 1976 but later he recorded 3 bigger skulls. The scans below are from his 1989 book.


*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author
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Finland Shadow Offline
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#41

(08-27-2019, 11:23 PM)chui_ Wrote:
(04-28-2019, 01:53 AM)Pckts Wrote:
*This image is copyright of its original author

262lbs

*This image is copyright of its original author

126kg monster 277lbs!!

*This image is copyright of its original author

330lb local with jaguar RECORD shot by ken vaughn



*This image is copyright of its original author

mrs. tomas fernandez with a record jaguar ; skull 20 8/16


*This image is copyright of its original author

huge male 116kg 255lbs


*This image is copyright of its original author

 131 kg 288 pounds


*This image is copyright of its original author

milton meirelles shot this monster with a skull of 20 2/16



*This image is copyright of its original author

monster 127kg jaguar hunted by hector cuellar 279 pounds

*This image is copyright of its original author

110 kg 242 pounds


*This image is copyright of its original author

knut bellinger with monster 257 pounder


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author

Jaguar Being weighed

Nearly all of the weights you've listed are wrong for those jaguars. Why has no one corrected this here?

Those photos are all of jaguars hunted by the clients of Tony Almeida which are provided in his book, Jaguar Hunting in the Mato Grosso. None of those jaguars were weighed at over 119kg (262lbs).

Funny thing is their true weights and skull measurements were posted by epaiva just a few posts above. At least do a little research.

Once again here are the skull measurements and weights of all those jaguars in the photos you've posted as well as all other males recorded by Tony Alemida. Rather than wasting my time going one by one and correcting all the errors, I'll just point out that the "record jaguar" with its head being held up which you've labelled as "330lb" was actually hunted by Dave Lauzen, it had a skull measuring 20 6/16 inches and was weighed at 112kg (246lb). It had the record skull at the time Almeida's first book was published in 1976 but later he recorded 3 bigger skulls. The scans below are from his 1989 book.


*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author

Hundreds of threads, limited time and no-one can know everything about everything makes it possible that some inaccurate information gets through. When something incorrect is noticed, anyone is free to point out what is wrong and give reasoning or proof. Goal is to have here good information, which can be backed up.

I am not at all surprised, that time to time errors happen, I would be surprised only if no mistakes ever. But when someone notices something, feel free to point it out in good spirit. If some wrong information is posted on purpose, that is one thing. But when it happens by accident, it is just human.

But very good to get accurate information and reasoning to back it up. Keep up good postings, but also remember that we all make sometimes mistakes :)
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United States Pckts Offline
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#42
( This post was last modified: 08-28-2019, 02:10 AM by Pckts )

Quote:Funny thing is their true weights and skull measurements were posted by epaiva just a few posts above. At least do a little research.
The images and weights were provided via a "big game" page which has been discussed here prior. Some inaccuracies could very well be listed.

But not all of them are inaccurate 

mrs. tomas fernandez with a record jaguar ; skull 20 8/16-Correct 

milton meirelles shot this monster with a skull of 20 2/16-Correct

monster 127kg jaguar hunted by hector cuellar 279 pounds- Incorrect 118kg *No skull size measured, shown as 127kg*

knut bellinger with monster 257 pounder- Incorrect  actually 108kg not 116kg

330lb local with jaguar RECORD shot by ken vaughn- Inconclusive *No Weight Provided*


Now, I ask you how do you know each image is the corresponding Jaguar mentioned in the Book?
Do you have page references or are you assuming each belongs to that account?



Let's not be so quick to discredit some based off a few inaccuracies if they are inaccuracies... 






Quote:"record jaguar" with its head being held up which you've labelled as "330lb" was actually hunted by Dave Lauzen, it had a skull measuring 20 6/16 inches and was weighed at 112kg (246lb).



Page # or Image exist from Almeida's first book?
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
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Canada chui_ Offline
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#43

(08-28-2019, 12:12 AM)Pckts Wrote:
Quote:Funny thing is their true weights and skull measurements were posted by epaiva just a few posts above. At least do a little research.
The images and weights were provided via a "big game" page which has been discussed here prior. Some inaccuracies could very well be listed.

But not all of them are inaccurate 

mrs. tomas fernandez with a record jaguar ; skull 20 8/16-Correct 

milton meirelles shot this monster with a skull of 20 2/16-Correct

monster 127kg jaguar hunted by hector cuellar 279 pounds- Incorrect 118kg *No skull size measured, shown as 127kg*

knut bellinger with monster 257 pounder- Incorrect  actually 108kg not 116kg

330lb local with jaguar RECORD shot by ken vaughn- Inconclusive *No Weight Provided*


Now, I ask you how do you know each image is the corresponding Jaguar mentioned in the Book?
Do you have page references or are you assuming each belongs to that account?



Let's not be so quick to discredit some based off a few inaccuracies if they are inaccuracies... 






Quote:"record jaguar" with its head being held up which you've labelled as "330lb" was actually hunted by Dave Lauzen, it had a skull measuring 20 6/16 inches and was weighed at 112kg (246lb).



Page # or Image exist from Almeida's first book?

As has already been explained to you, those photos are from Tony Almeida’s books. 

The jaguar hunted by Ken Vaughn was not weighed – so the weight of 330lb would be incorrect not inconclusive – because it does not exist (do you need further clarification?). The guy (Almeida) who recorded all these jaguars did not weigh any jaguar close to that weight, nor did he believe they could reach that weight.

More importantly, the picture you posted with the label “330lb local with jaguar RECORD” is not of the jaguar hunted by Ken Vaughn in the first place (this is another mistake on your part). That picture is of the one hunted by Dave Lauzen as has already been explained to you. This jaguar weighed 112kg (246lb). It had the record skull at one point and that image of the guy holding its head was on the cover of Almeida’s 1976 book. It is also on the second page of that book, note the skull measurement 20 3/8 inches (that is the same as 20 6/16 just in case you need clarification on that).


*This image is copyright of its original author


Also the top photo with the 262lb weight and the one further down you’ve labelled as 288lb are photos of the same jaguar. The correct weight was 119kg (262lb), hunted by John Howell, this was the heaviest jaguar ever recorded by Almeida.
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United States Pckts Offline
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#44
( This post was last modified: 09-14-2019, 04:21 AM by Pckts )

Quote:The jaguar hunted by Ken Vaughn was not weighed – so the weight of 330lb would be incorrect not inconclusive – because it does not exist (do you need further clarification?). The guy (Almeida) who recorded all these jaguars did not weigh any jaguar close to that weight, nor did he believe they could reach that weight.
We know that is wrong. Also, what page does he make this claim? I have the book now and I have seen no such claim from him as of yet.







Differences in the Southern Pantanal compared to the Northern
Southern Pantanal has a more harsh flood season, it's been more molested by farmers and Jaguars are harder to see there. To entice Jags to come out they do bait them in the South to get them to walk in front of their safari vehicles.
https://www.amazonadventures.com/blog/pantanal-tours-is-the-north-or-south-better

"But for people who want to see jaguars, the north is definitely the place to go to, especially around Porto Jofre"


But the South is where you want to go if you want to see Macaws, Peccary, Giant Anteaters, Tapir and Yellow Anaconda. My guess would be due to the fact that Jaguar numbers aren't as high, but that is only a guess.
Per Paulo, Jags in the South may not be as large as they are in the North but they are still plenty large, have solid numbers and have a strong prey base. But most likely due to the fact that they are a bit more intruded on by humans and deal with a heavier flood season, that may have something to do with it. I also believe the South doesn't have the same Caiman Population as the North does. 

Below is a list of Southern Pantanal Jag weights included the famous Brutus.

First up is Scare 
115kg
Also notice they mention 2 Jags weighing 130kg or above

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author





Here is one of the 130kg Jaguars 

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author


Here is the famous Brutus, he was 4 years old when captured and weighed 110kg and is said to now weigh around 130kg



*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author








76kg Female



*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author





Examples of the Safari Tour they are trying to popularize at the Refúgio Ecológico Caiman
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
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United States Pckts Offline
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#45
( This post was last modified: 09-17-2019, 01:55 AM by Pckts )

@chui_ 
Quote:More importantly, the picture you posted with the label “330lb local with jaguar RECORD” is not of the jaguar hunted by Ken Vaughn in the first place (this is another mistake on your part). That picture is of the one hunted by Dave Lauzen as has already been explained to you. This jaguar weighed 112kg (246lb)
Notice who took that jag and the weight Almeida estimated him to be, which was "130kg Empty"

*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


More Scans 

*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author

3x's 21+'' Jaguar Scores mentioned by Almeida

2 Skulls that Scored over 21'' from Jaguar Hunting in the Mato Grosso and Bolivia page 56

"Padrin also sent me a photo and the measurements of the record skull of a Venezuelan Jaguar, shot near the town of San Fernando de Apure, in 1946, by a man called Spencel. This skull, now in the museum of the Universidad Central De Venezuela, Caracas, measures 21 3/16! (Major A. Ellis had a skull of similar proportions from a jaguar shot in Miranda, southern Pantanal, and that was the biggest skull of a Brazilian jaguar that I have ever heard of.) Spencel's jaguar reputedly weighed 264 lbs (120 kilos). A photo of a jaguar being weighed in at 325 lbs (148kg) is shown in Mondolfi and Hoogjesteijn's study on the Venezuelan jaguar."
&

*This image is copyright of its original author


Jaguar dimensions from Almeida 

Page 57

"The greatest height at the shoulder recorded by us was 32''; the average shoulder height of 29 male Pantanal jaguars came to 26.28''
"The height of a jaguar is a good indication of its  size. Another good indication is the girth (circumference) of the body directly behind the shoulders and at the middle of the belly. 
Largest girth behind the shoulder we have annotated is 43'', but Pantanal males average 40'' and females 36''
"A female who had utterly gorged herself showed the extraordinary girth of 44.5'' around her stomach, a measurement only a few males ever surpass. The record stomach girth, however, belonged to a male whose belly was empty, except for some hair. It went 47"

"The largest head circumference we have recorded is 30.25"; the average for 31 Pantanal males is 27.77", for seventeen Pantanal females 23.82. The largest neck circumference for a male is 27"; the average neck girth of 28 males is 24.93", of 16 females 21.44"

"The largest girth at shoulder of a male went 25.5'', of a female 22''. The average of 30 males 22.23'', of 17 females 18.94''. Several Males showed a forearm girth of 17'', though the average of 30 males is 24.93'', of females 13.65''
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
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