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Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars

Venezuela epaiva Offline
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( This post was last modified: 03-19-2017, 09:16 PM by epaiva )

Jaguar and Puma Skull from the same Region Estado Cojedes in the Venezuelan Llanos, Puma Skull measures 17,5 cm long 12,5 cm wide, female.  Museo de Zoologia de Facultad de Ciencias de la UCV, Caracas, Venezuela
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Venezuela epaiva Offline
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(03-18-2017, 04:07 PM)peter Wrote:
(03-18-2017, 10:21 AM)epaiva Wrote:
(03-18-2017, 10:10 AM)sanjay Wrote: Thats a big difference for sure. May be age difference @epaiva ?

@sanjay

They are both adult male Jaguars but Jaguars in the Venezuelan Llanos are the second largest after Pantanal  Jaguars  they weight up to 120 kilograms and Jaguars from the Amazon in Venezuela are a lot smaller with the largest ones weighting  up to 65 kilograms.

What you see isn't a result of age or individual variation, but circumstances. There are more factors, but good conditions top the list. When you read about Amur tigers, habitat destruction, prey depletion and smaller size, go this this post.

Wild big cats can survice in barren regions and forests, but they like plains with rivers and patches of forest better. The reason is these attract herbivores. Large herbivores.

Surinam and French Guyana, not that far away from Venezuela, have dense tropical forests. Their beauty is second to none, but it isn't easy to make a living. Tropical forests are not ideal for hunters. Large animals are few and far between and small animals are, ehh, too small for a decent big cat. This is why smaller cats, like ocelots and golden cats, thrive in these conditions. Sumatra, also densely forested, is the exception to the rule. Half a century ago, it had many large animals. Sumatra still has elephants.   

Skulls of Surinam jaguars, although larger than the smaller skull posted by Epaiva, are decidedly smaller than those from the Llanos. Same for skulls of pumas shot in Surinam.

The Amazon forest, however, can produce large jaguars. Not as large as those in Venezuela or the Pantanal, but they can be large. I saw pictures of people who had been in the Amazone Basin a long time. They knew where to find large jaguars. I noticed most of these had been shot near (large) cities. Jungle cities often are surrounded by farms. Jungle animals like farms, as new opportunities. As jaguars like opportunities as well, some of them can get quite big. Not saying they compare to the Yellowstone bears who thrived near dumps, but open spaces, crops and plenty of opportunities usually produce larger animals than tropical forests and mountains. It isn't always easy to make a decent living in the natural world.     

The jaguar skulls I measured roughly ranged between 220-300 mm. The longest skull belonged to an animal allegedly shot in the extreme south of the US well over a century ago. Seems a bit unlikely, as jaguars in that region are smaller than those of the Pantanal and the Llanos. I'll post some pictures later.
 
Very interesting information, Epaiva. Many thanks.

@peter

You welcome my Friend
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Netherlands peter Offline
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( This post was last modified: 03-19-2017, 08:37 PM by peter )

EPAIVA

Nice photograph! 

In museums, skulls usually have a number. Same for the one in the photograph below. It's on the mandibula: I-3702. Directly after the number, you see ♀. This means the skull belonged to a female (♀ = female and ♂ = male).

In 2012, I measured a lot of leopard skulls in the Staatliches Museum für Naturkunde Stuttgart. Most of them belonged to leopards shot about a century ago in what is now Tanzania. Most female skulls were a tad longer (ranging between 170-200 mm. in greatest total length), but the canines in the female puma skull from Venezuela are more robust: 


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This is a photograph of a puma killed by a jaguar with a skull bite. Found it on Carnivora Forum some time ago. No information on gender and location:  


*This image is copyright of its original author


In regions where they co-exist, jaguars usually are bigger and heavier than pumas. Based on greatest total skull length, I'd say the largest pumas live in the northwestern part of the US and in southwestern Canada. Patagonian pumas almost compare, but seem to have larger teeth.

Large pumas seem to be a bit longer than large leopards, but leopards usually have longer (up to 280 mm. in greatest total length or a bit over) and more robust skulls.
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Italy Ngala Offline
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(03-19-2017, 08:25 PM)peter Wrote: This is a photograph of a puma killed by a jaguar with a skull bite. Found it on Carnivora Forum some time ago. No information on gender and location:  


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This photo is from La Milpa in Rio Bravo Conservation Area, Belize.
"Man still bears in his bodily frame the indelible stamp of his lowly origin." C. Darwin
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Canada GrizzlyClaws Offline
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I also notice a lot of convergent evolutionary patterns on the jaguar skull with the tiger skull.

Except the canines size, overall the larger jaguar skull looks quite tiger-ish in my opinion.
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Venezuela epaiva Offline
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( This post was last modified: 03-23-2017, 05:01 AM by epaiva )

(03-19-2017, 08:25 PM)peter Wrote: EPAIVA

Nice photograph! 

In museums, skulls usually have a number. Same for the one in the photograph below. It's on the mandibula: I-3702. Directly after the number, you see ♀. This means the skull belonged to a female (♀ = female and ♂ = male).

In 2012, I measured a lot of leopard skulls in the Staatliches Museum für Naturkunde Stuttgart. Most of them belonged to leopards shot about a century ago in what is now Tanzania. Most female skulls were a tad longer (ranging between 170-200 mm. in greatest total length), but the canines in the female puma skull from Venezuela are more robust: 


*This image is copyright of its original author


This is a photograph of a puma killed by a jaguar with a skull bite. Found it on Carnivora Forum some time ago. No information on gender and location:  


*This image is copyright of its original author


In regions where they co-exist, jaguars usually are bigger and heavier than pumas. Based on greatest total skull length, I'd say the largest pumas live in the northwestern part of the US and in southwestern Canada. Patagonian pumas almost compare, but seem to have larger teeth.

Large pumas seem to be a bit longer than large leopards, but leopards usually have longer (up to 280 mm. in greatest total length or a bit over) and more robust skulls.
A Big Ranch in the Venezuelan Llanos named Hato El Frio of more than 629 square kilometers has Jaguars, Pumas and Ocelots, in the north of the Ranch it has two rivers that cross the ranch it is the home of the Jaguars where if you are really lucky can see one of them and you do not find Pumas around that part of the Ranch because they avoid the larger more powerful Jaguar, in that part of the ranch we saw a few Ocelots, it seens that Jaguars dont care much about predating Ocelots. In the South of the ranch far from the rivers you find a good number of Pumas and very few Ocelots, one day when I was trying to find a Puma we found an Ocelot very hight in a tree escaping from a Puma, I took pictures of the Ocelot and videos too but the Puma when away very fast and I had no time to take pictures and video of it. Jaguars and Pumas in the Venezuelan Llanos do not attack people when ever they see humans they go away.
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Venezuela epaiva Offline
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Measurements of Jaguar Skulls in 4 Jaguar populations 
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Guatemala GuateGojira Offline
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(03-19-2017, 08:51 PM)Ngala Wrote:
(03-19-2017, 08:25 PM)peter Wrote: This is a photograph of a puma killed by a jaguar with a skull bite. Found it on Carnivora Forum some time ago. No information on gender and location:  


*This image is copyright of its original author

This photo is from La Milpa in Rio Bravo Conservation Area, Belize.

Very interesting, specially if we take in count that in Belize, male jaguars weigh between 49.9 - 64.4 kg (the smallest population with a relative large sample). The puma probably weighed a little less, Starker Leopold said that male pumas in Mexico weigh between 45 - 73 kg, but he don't mention the area (north or south of the country). Sunquist & Sunquist (2002) mention that pumas in Peru are the smaller weighing only between 28 - 30 kg. Sadly I don't have data from Belize, so we can only speculate in base of the available information.
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Venezuela epaiva Offline
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Measurements of Skulls of Pantanal Jaguars 
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Netherlands peter Offline
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( This post was last modified: 06-22-2018, 05:13 AM by peter )

'A MORPHOLOGICAL COMPARISON OF JAGUARS AND PUMAS IN SOUTHERN MEXICO' (J.A. de la Torre and M. Rivero, 2017 - in: Therya, Vol. 8, no. 2) 

The sample is a bit small (jaguars: 2♂ and 3♀ - pumas: 8♂ and 3♀), but the article again shows that two cats living in close proximity tend to develop into two very different species using a region in different ways. In most cases, the smaller of the two tends to get smaller. When the competition disappears, the opposite is seen.

As to morphology. The 2 male jaguars averaged 52,5 kg., whereas the 8 male pumas averaged 31,25 kg. In females (34,33 kg. and 21,33 kg.), the difference between both species is as outspoken as in males. Although pumas, as a result of a longer tail, are a trifle longer (referring to total length), jaguars are about 4 inches longer in head and body. They also have longer heads and longer and more robust upper canines.  

Southern Mexico could have the smallest jaguars and pumas I know of. They're definitely smaller than in Surinam.     

Interesting read: http://www.scielo.org.mx/scielo.php?pid=S2007-33642017000200117&script=sci_arttext&tlng=en
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Canada Wolverine Offline
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( This post was last modified: 06-21-2018, 09:29 AM by Wolverine )

(06-21-2018, 06:47 AM)peter Wrote: Southern Mexico could have the smallest jaguars and pumas I know of. 

Curiously enough Southern Mexico and more specially Yucatan peninsula has not only smallest jaguars and pumas but also one the smallest human race in world - Mayas  and smallest trees and smallest tropical forests. During my week long trip there in 2011 I was amazed to see that the vast forests of the province are only 4-6 meters high... and adult men from Maya tribe around 1,40-1,50. When a white man is in Yucatan he has an impression that he is a Gulliver in the land of Lilliputs. Everything in Yakatan is weirdly dwarfish, including jaguars, a dozen of them I saw when they where transported in cages by special trucks on the roads, they really have a size of Indian leopards.
If we put aside the theory of extra-terrestrial origins of ancient Mayas only scientific explanation is that local soils have extremely law fertility and are poor on minerals.
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Indonesia P.T.Sondaica Offline
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@Wolfrine male maya people is 150 cm???
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Guatemala GuateGojira Offline
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In fact, there is an issue in that figure.

As far I know, there is an study where it says that the mayan people in Guatemala had an average height of 154 cm in men and 145 cm in women. However the problem is that that study was made only in the west side of the country and it was during the 60's and 70's, which was the worst time during the internal war between the military and the guerilas. So this population suffered a lot during that conflict and the lack of food probably influenced those figures.

The sad part is that even in these days, must of the native american from Mayan origin in my country still suffer from a poor feeding and a man of 160 cm is an average one. A person of 175 cm (like me) is "tall" in comparison with most of the population and it seems this is a tendency in Latin America.
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262lbs

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126kg monster 277lbs!!

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330lb local with jaguar RECORD shot by ken vaughn



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mrs. tomas fernandez with a record jaguar ; skull 20 8/16


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huge male 116kg 255lbs


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 131 kg 288 pounds


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milton meirelles shot this monster with a skull of 20 2/16



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monster 127kg jaguar hunted by hector cuellar 279 pounds

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110 kg 242 pounds


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knut bellinger with monster 257 pounder


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Jaguar Being weighed
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United Kingdom Sully Offline
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The skull on that 330lb one is absolutely ridiculous, what a specimen
"When the tiger stalks the jungle like the lowering clouds of a thunderstorm, the leopard moves as silently as mist drifting on a dawn wind." -Indian proverb
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