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Ttimemarti · 03-08-2023, 12:28 PM

(03-08-2023, 12:04 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(03-08-2023, 10:32 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Is there a way for me to read the history of the two Mbiri males until now? I know they are currently dominant over some Birmingham females but what about their whole history?

Dont think there is source where you can find their whole history on one place, basically you need to find info by yourself thru different sources.

Yea, out of duos which we can follow more closely , this 2 are definetly quite intrigue characters from early days.

So out of all of the main famous coalitions in the timbavati manyeleti sabi sands area the matimbas are the only ones with successful sons that have successful sons… Mbiri males and then their sons the 6 mayanbulas as of rn although the mayanbulas age still young

Potato · 03-08-2023, 07:24 PM

(03-08-2023, 12:28 PM)Ttimemarti Wrote:
(03-08-2023, 12:04 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(03-08-2023, 10:32 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Is there a way for me to read the history of the two Mbiri males until now? I know they are currently dominant over some Birmingham females but what about their whole history?

Dont think there is source where you can find their whole history on one place, basically you need to find info by yourself thru different sources.

Yea, out of duos which we can follow more closely , this 2 are definetly quite intrigue characters from early days.

So out of all of the main famous coalitions in the timbavati manyeleti sabi sands area the matimbas are the only ones with successful sons that have successful sons… Mbiri males and then their sons the 6 mayanbulas as of rn although the mayanbulas age still young

Old Ross/Giraffe males comes to mind there. Very successfull lineage comes from them...

Tr1x24 · 03-08-2023, 07:40 PM

(03-08-2023, 07:24 PM)Potato Wrote: Old Ross/Giraffe males comes to mind there. Very successfull lineage comes from them...

Old Ross/Giraffe and Old Skybed males are in a way "pioneers" of "modern" Timbavati, Manyeleti and neighbouring areas, most of recet and current lineages we see here, comes from them.

Especially if we take in consideration that Skorro Thanda Impi and Buddy Orpen male are also very likely descents of Old Skybed lineage.

Potato · 03-08-2023, 08:44 PM

(03-08-2023, 07:40 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Especially if we take in consideration that Skorro Thanda Impi and Buddy Orpen male are also very likely descents of Old Skybed lineage.

Rather baseless statement, espacially regarding Buddy. Buddy is total unkown. It is unknown what pride did he came from. It is even unknown from which region did he came from. There are no any tracks of Skorrro Thanda Impi being decendent of old Skybed males either.

Tr1x24 · 03-08-2023, 09:24 PM

(03-08-2023, 08:44 PM)Potato Wrote: Rather baseless statement, espacially regarding Buddy. Buddy is total unkown. It is unknown what pride did he came from. It is even unknown from which region did he came from.

Although no evidence, Buddy first emerged around Orpen, he came from the east or north of Orpen Gate from Kruger, as there was no track of him from west (Timbavati, Kaserie) or south (Manyeleti, Sabi Sands). He was born approx around 2012-13, vast area east of and around Orpens at that time was controled by young and up and coming 9 Skybeds. Also he is very similar to Skybeds in face, especially "twin"with 1 if the males which become territorial further towards Satara. So there is some clues for that, but no way to prove it.

(03-08-2023, 08:44 PM)Potato Wrote: There are no any tracks of Skorrro Thanda Impi being decendent of old Skybed males either.

Skorro was born in Skorro pride around 2008-09, there is no track of Skorro pride that far, but they emerged around Orpen Gate few years later. Skorro pride might even be the same pride as from where Skybeds came, or a breakaway/related to them, as that pride disappeared.

Territorial males in that area around Orpen Gate at 2008/09 , where Old Skybed males. Skorro is also similar to old Skybeds in face (which obiviously doesnt prove anything, but seeing 2 lions be similar, who came from the same area, its more likely they are related then no).

Im not saying and claiming that this is 100% true, as obiviously not enough evidence, im just saying it is likey or a speculation.

Mdz123 · 03-08-2023, 09:50 PM

(03-08-2023, 07:40 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(03-08-2023, 07:24 PM)Potato Wrote: Old Ross/Giraffe males comes to mind there. Very successfull lineage comes from them...

Old Ross/Giraffe and Old Skybed males are in a way "pioneers" of "modern" Timbavati, Manyeleti and neighbouring areas, most of recet and current lineages we see here, comes from them.

Especially if we take in consideration that Skorro Thanda Impi and Buddy Orpen male are also very likely descents of Old Skybed lineage.

The lineage of these 2 coalitions are just too big, there are several cases of in-breeding. I will try to list all instances here:

The 2 Xikukutsu males are dominant over Black Dam pride and they are mated with some females who are sired by their cousin, the old Giraffe male

The 2/6 BDMs in SS are likely to take over Nkuhuma pride, which means that they will be mating with some females who were sired by their relatives the Avocas.

The Tintswlos maled are literally mating now with their sisters from the Mbiri pride.

Red road male might be also mating with his half-sisters, as its speculated he was sired by 1 of the Thanda Impi.

Junior Matimba mated with some of his half-sisters, as Matimbas were dominant over Skorro and Mbiri prides
Same goes for Mbiri males, who mated with their half-sisters from Skorro pride

Finally, the Skorro male are mating with their relatives from the Mayambula pride, as some females were sired by their half-brothers the Mbiris.

Edit: I also forgot about the BBoys, since both Bboys and Matimbas came from same pride, the BBoys mated with distant sisters in the Nkuhuma pride.

Tr1x24 · 03-08-2023, 10:29 PM

@Mdz123 well, thats normal. In all parts/corners of Kruger you will find that almost all prides are somehow related if you watch between few generatios.

Not all young nomadic males travel 50+ kms into completly new area of Kruger, where their gene is new, in fact, most of them takeover near by areas.

But then, few of them, here and there, do travel far distances, and "reset" the area with their new blood.

Inbreeding in such big area as Kruger, where you have 1-2 k lions is not a problem, its problem in small reserves, where you often need to get new male and gene to prevent it.

criollo2mil · 03-09-2023, 12:38 AM

(03-08-2023, 12:28 PM)Ttimemarti Wrote:
(03-08-2023, 12:04 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(03-08-2023, 10:32 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Is there a way for me to read the history of the two Mbiri males until now? I know they are currently dominant over some Birmingham females but what about their whole history?

Dont think there is source where you can find their whole history on one place, basically you need to find info by yourself thru different sources.

Yea, out of duos which we can follow more closely , this 2 are definetly quite intrigue characters from early days.

So out of all of the main famous coalitions in the timbavati manyeleti sabi sands area the matimbas are the only ones with successful sons that have successful sons… Mbiri males and then their sons the 6 mayanbulas as of rn although the mayanbulas age still young

Old Avoca/Girrafe have very very successful sons.

lionuk · 03-12-2023, 05:10 PM

Mbiri Male Zigzag. He's looking great!
Pic credit: Sarah Minghini