There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
"Brett McBride is captain of the MV OCEARCH, and a main player in the handling of captured sharks. He’s a guy who has spent a lot of time on the ocean, and he recounted an experience he had as a teenager.
According to his story, he was harpooning swordfish off the coast of California from the deck of a boat when he and his shipmates heard of a white shark nearby and went to investigate. Their ship had a 42-foot plank where the harpoon man would stand, and as the ship passed the great white they marked its length from nose to tail by that plank.
They measured it later to be thirty feet!"
That shark in the second video has been a basking shark, people living in that area haven´t been in no panic. And many people recognized this shark to be a basking shark. Can you imagine reactions if there would have been a world record great white shark, never seen before. Don´t you think, that all shark experts around the world would be flying there to investigate....
Anyone having doubts, just look at that video. That shark has long and quite slender body, then look at the gap between front part of the dorsal fin compared to back part of pectoral fins, typical for the basking shark, not for the great white shark. Also look at shape of the dorsal fin, again not at all what great white sharks have but what basking sharks have. With pectoral fins difference can be more difficult to notice.
Then again that third case about claimed 30 feet great white shark is once again something which no-one can confirm and no-one has never seen such sharks in reality, unless a basking shark for instance. It actually can be confusing to see it when it´s not eating and swimming by. Some teenager boy, no matter what kind of an expert he later has become is far from reliable witness. If we would believe all rumors, we would think that there really are big foots and dragons. You post a lot of things about some "giant sharks" from very unreliable sources. We have a thread for cryptozoology separately, there is no need to pollute other threads with that kind of postings. You do post often good things, but time to time it looks like, that you post things you would like to be true with no critical view at all.
... Since when do basking sharks have the white underside that is typical of great whites? At 0:18–0:20, you should be able to see the white underside:
When looking at something through water, light can make some tricks. But when looking at fins and how they are related to each others, it´s clear, that it´s not a great white shark. Also look at that slender body, it was a hint too. When you have a massive great white shark, body is also quite different kind than on the video. There are no great white sharks in sizes 25-30 feet, which is also a very good thing to remember. Just write to any shark expert and ask for opinion if you don´t believe that one in the article I shared. Basking sharks swim also mouth closed often, when they look very different when comparing to sight, when it´s eating. @Pckts just pay attention and look those fins, body etc. That is no great white shark.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
This shark is one with many "faces" and very easy for people to make mistakes like thinking, that it´s a world record great white shark. When it´s eating and mouth open it´s not as easy to make mistake if seeing it properly.
1) Starting with the white shape or the light, though light can play tricks, the white underside is visible from different angles at different seconds, so that's no trick, but the shark does have a white underside typical of the GWS:
2) The dorsal fin isn't really different from that of the Great White below:
If one day there would be a credible observation and photos/video about 25-30 feet, 8-9 meters great white shark, you will see real marine biologists and shark experts go wild. You don´t see it, when there is a video of a basking shark like in this case. Nothing special in this. When "expert" is some amateur fisherman and Joe Rogan, I recommend to take it easy
What comes to freak specimens, when talking about great white sharks, Deep blue is a good example, 6-6,5 meters huge old female.
One more thing to notice when identifying sharks and looking differences between gws and basking shark. That smaller fin between dorsal fin and tail, gws has very small and it´s even when visible pretty tiny. Basking shark has bigger and when you watch that video, you can see quite big "middle fin" on back of this shark. Too many details showing too clearly that it´s a basking shark. Just contact some shark expert, someone well known who can be found and send email if you want to get another opinion in addition to that great white shark expert in that article I shared, did you read it? Great white shark expert said, that basking shark. This case is very clear, basking shark range covers that area where this shark was spotted.
"Brett McBride is captain of the MV OCEARCH, and a main player in the handling of captured sharks. He’s a guy who has spent a lot of time on the ocean, and he recounted an experience he had as a teenager.
According to his story, he was harpooning swordfish off the coast of California from the deck of a boat when he and his shipmates heard of a white shark nearby and went to investigate. Their ship had a 42-foot plank where the harpoon man would stand, and as the ship passed the great white they marked its length from nose to tail by that plank.
They measured it later to be thirty feet!"
That shark in the second video has been a basking shark, people living in that area haven´t been in no panic. And many people recognized this shark to be a basking shark. Can you imagine reactions if there would have been a world record great white shark, never seen before. Don´t you think, that all shark experts around the world would be flying there to investigate....
Anyone having doubts, just look at that video. That shark has long and quite slender body, then look at the gap between front part of the dorsal fin compared to back part of pectoral fins, typical for the basking shark, not for the great white shark. Also look at shape of the dorsal fin, again not at all what great white sharks have but what basking sharks have. With pectoral fins difference can be more difficult to notice.
Then again that third case about claimed 30 feet great white shark is once again something which no-one can confirm and no-one has never seen such sharks in reality, unless a basking shark for instance. It actually can be confusing to see it when it´s not eating and swimming by. Some teenager boy, no matter what kind of an expert he later has become is far from reliable witness. If we would believe all rumors, we would think that there really are big foots and dragons. You post a lot of things about some "giant sharks" from very unreliable sources. We have a thread for cryptozoology separately, there is no need to pollute other threads with that kind of postings. You do post often good things, but time to time it looks like, that you post things you would like to be true with no critical view at all.
... Since when do basking sharks have the white underside that is typical of great whites? At 0:18–0:20, you should be able to see the white underside:
When looking at something through water, light can make some tricks. But when looking at fins and how they are related to each others, it´s clear, that it´s not a great white shark. Also look at that slender body, it was a hint too. When you have a massive great white shark, body is also quite different kind than on the video. There are no great white sharks in sizes 25-30 feet, which is also a very good thing to remember. Just write to any shark expert and ask for opinion if you don´t believe that one in the article I shared. Basking sharks swim also mouth closed often, when they look very different when comparing to sight, when it´s eating. @Pckts just pay attention and look those fins, body etc. That is no great white shark.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
This shark is one with many "faces" and very easy for people to make mistakes like thinking, that it´s a world record great white shark. When it´s eating and mouth open it´s not as easy to make mistake if seeing it properly.
1) Starting with the white shape or the light, though light can play tricks, the white underside is visible from different angles at different seconds, so that's no trick, but the shark does have a white underside typical of the GWS:
2) The dorsal fin isn't really different from that of the Great White below:
If one day there would be a credible observation and photos/video about 25-30 feet, 8-9 meters great white shark, you will see real marine biologists and shark experts go wild. You don´t see it, when there is a video of a basking shark like in this case. Nothing special in this. When "expert" is some amateur fisherman and Joe Rogan, I recommend to take it easy
What comes to freak specimens, when talking about great white sharks, Deep blue is a good example, 6-6,5 meters huge old female.
One more thing to notice when identifying sharks and looking differences between gws and basking shark. That smaller fin between dorsal fin and tail, gws has very small and it´s even when visible pretty tiny. Basking shark has bigger and when you watch that video, you can see quite big "middle fin" on back of this shark. Too many details showing too clearly that it´s a basking shark. Just contact some shark expert, someone well known who can be found and send email if you want to get another opinion in addition to that great white shark expert in that article I shared, did you read it? Great white shark expert said, that basking shark. This case is very clear, basking shark range covers that area where this shark was spotted.
Don't get caught up in the 30' claim, we all know people over estimate size.
And the actual person who took the video claims it's a GWS and I haven't seen a GWS expert claim it as a Basking or GWS, just that site which isn't from any specific marine Biologist
"JB Currell says - On our trip from Bermuda to Cape Cod yesterday on Distant Star with Tom Brownell. About 40 miles south east of Martha’s Vineyard we came upon the largest great white shark I’ve ever seen.
It was 25-30’ Long and weighed approximately 5 thousand pounds."
Here is a great Video of a Basking Shark for Comparison
vs
I'm not saying it's 100% one or the other but I'm certainly not discounting it actually being a White Shark, I see characteristics of Both.
Quote: "“If you’re going to the Outer Cape, certainly pay attention to your surroundings; pay attention to the presence of seals and don’t go out too far,” said Greg Skomal, a state Marine Fisheries biologist and national go-to shark researcher."
Second quote:"“Know where the sandbars are, the pathways for sharks to come to shore,” Skomal added. “Also confirm what you’re looking at. There’s a tendency for the general public when they see a big fish to send it to the media first.
He added a basking shark off Martha’s Vineyard, which some are saying is a great white now making the rounds, only stokes unnecessary fear."
JULY 19, 2019 – CAPE COD, MA: Dr. Greg Skomal tags a shark along the shore line off Wellfleet and Truro on Cape Cod while working with the Atlantic White Shark Conservancy July 16, 2019. Courtesy of the Atlantic White Shark Conservancy
Quote: I am an accomplished marine biologist, underwater explorer, photographer, aquarist, and author. I have been a senior fisheries biologist with Massachusetts Marine Fisheries since 1987 and I currently head up the Massachusetts Shark Research Program (MSRP). I am also adjunct faculty at the University of Massachusetts School for Marine Science and Technology in New Bedford, MA, a guest investigator at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution in Woods Hole, MA, and an adjunct scientist with the Center for Shark Research in Sarasota, FL. I hold a master’s degree from the University of Rhode Island and a PhD from Boston University."
"Brett McBride is captain of the MV OCEARCH, and a main player in the handling of captured sharks. He’s a guy who has spent a lot of time on the ocean, and he recounted an experience he had as a teenager.
According to his story, he was harpooning swordfish off the coast of California from the deck of a boat when he and his shipmates heard of a white shark nearby and went to investigate. Their ship had a 42-foot plank where the harpoon man would stand, and as the ship passed the great white they marked its length from nose to tail by that plank.
They measured it later to be thirty feet!"
That shark in the second video has been a basking shark, people living in that area haven´t been in no panic. And many people recognized this shark to be a basking shark. Can you imagine reactions if there would have been a world record great white shark, never seen before. Don´t you think, that all shark experts around the world would be flying there to investigate....
Anyone having doubts, just look at that video. That shark has long and quite slender body, then look at the gap between front part of the dorsal fin compared to back part of pectoral fins, typical for the basking shark, not for the great white shark. Also look at shape of the dorsal fin, again not at all what great white sharks have but what basking sharks have. With pectoral fins difference can be more difficult to notice.
Then again that third case about claimed 30 feet great white shark is once again something which no-one can confirm and no-one has never seen such sharks in reality, unless a basking shark for instance. It actually can be confusing to see it when it´s not eating and swimming by. Some teenager boy, no matter what kind of an expert he later has become is far from reliable witness. If we would believe all rumors, we would think that there really are big foots and dragons. You post a lot of things about some "giant sharks" from very unreliable sources. We have a thread for cryptozoology separately, there is no need to pollute other threads with that kind of postings. You do post often good things, but time to time it looks like, that you post things you would like to be true with no critical view at all.
... Since when do basking sharks have the white underside that is typical of great whites? At 0:18–0:20, you should be able to see the white underside:
When looking at something through water, light can make some tricks. But when looking at fins and how they are related to each others, it´s clear, that it´s not a great white shark. Also look at that slender body, it was a hint too. When you have a massive great white shark, body is also quite different kind than on the video. There are no great white sharks in sizes 25-30 feet, which is also a very good thing to remember. Just write to any shark expert and ask for opinion if you don´t believe that one in the article I shared. Basking sharks swim also mouth closed often, when they look very different when comparing to sight, when it´s eating. @Pckts just pay attention and look those fins, body etc. That is no great white shark.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
This shark is one with many "faces" and very easy for people to make mistakes like thinking, that it´s a world record great white shark. When it´s eating and mouth open it´s not as easy to make mistake if seeing it properly.
1) Starting with the white shape or the light, though light can play tricks, the white underside is visible from different angles at different seconds, so that's no trick, but the shark does have a white underside typical of the GWS:
2) The dorsal fin isn't really different from that of the Great White below:
If one day there would be a credible observation and photos/video about 25-30 feet, 8-9 meters great white shark, you will see real marine biologists and shark experts go wild. You don´t see it, when there is a video of a basking shark like in this case. Nothing special in this. When "expert" is some amateur fisherman and Joe Rogan, I recommend to take it easy
What comes to freak specimens, when talking about great white sharks, Deep blue is a good example, 6-6,5 meters huge old female.
One more thing to notice when identifying sharks and looking differences between gws and basking shark. That smaller fin between dorsal fin and tail, gws has very small and it´s even when visible pretty tiny. Basking shark has bigger and when you watch that video, you can see quite big "middle fin" on back of this shark. Too many details showing too clearly that it´s a basking shark. Just contact some shark expert, someone well known who can be found and send email if you want to get another opinion in addition to that great white shark expert in that article I shared, did you read it? Great white shark expert said, that basking shark. This case is very clear, basking shark range covers that area where this shark was spotted.
Don't get caught up in the 30' claim, we all know people over estimate size.
And the actual person who took the video claims it's a GWS and I haven't seen a GWS expert claim it as a Basking or GWS, just that site which isn't from any specific marine Biologist
"JB Currell says - On our trip from Bermuda to Cape Cod yesterday on Distant Star with Tom Brownell. About 40 miles south east of Martha’s Vineyard we came upon the largest great white shark I’ve ever seen.
It was 25-30’ Long and weighed approximately 5 thousand pounds."
Here is a great Video of a Basking Shark for Comparison
vs
I'm not saying it's 100% one or the other but I'm certainly not discounting it actually being a White Shark, I see characteristics of Both.
Shark experts don´t say too much when there is nothing special for them if no-one asks. Some youtube video with nothing special really isn´t something worth too much time. That alone should make it quite clear, that they haven´t seen any 25 foot great white shark in any video. It has to be remembered, that it would be a record breaker if real.
With brief look this can be confusing footage, but there are some places to freeze the screen and see the details. And all I can see are clearly things, what basking shark has. Dorsal fin shape, gap between pectoral fins and dorsal fin when looking side from nose to tail. Also that "middle fin" is too big for great white. Overall shape and color too are what basking shark has. Every detail, which I could check are pointing to basking shark. I can understand, that some fisherman can go "nuts" when seeing this big shark briefly, I almost would bet that he had never seen a basking shark in his life.
12-10-2019, 01:15 AM( This post was last modified: 12-10-2019, 01:16 AM by GuateGojira )
I support @Shadow. From hundreds of white sharks killed, none of them surpassed the 7 meters reliable recorded and the largest ones of over 6.5 m are put in doubt. The large shark of 9-10 m reported by Gerald Wood was in fact less than 6 meters at the end, based on the jaws.
Those stories of white sharks of 10 meters are just "fisher tales". Nature may produce freaks, but in this species an animal of over 6 meters is already a very big one. "Deep Blue" is already a example of what a 6 m+ shark can be.
My main point in this discussion is, that when someone wants to claim, that there is a world record individual (and by far!) of any species noticed somewhere, but there is not a single one expert of that species saying anything.... double check, triple check and use some time with sources. Youtube is full of videos with fancy headlines with no connection to reality. Some newspapers/medias also publish articles without paying too much attention if they get just some clicks.
(12-10-2019, 01:23 AM)Shadow Wrote: My main point in this discussion is, that when someone wants to claim, that there is a world record individual (and by far!) of any species noticed somewhere, but there is not a single one expert of that species saying anything.... double check, triple check and use some time with sources. Youtube is full of videos with fancy headlines with no connection to reality. Some newspapers/medias also publish articles without paying too much attention if they get just some clicks.
No one is claiming it as a world record, the fisherman were simply estimating it's size.
12-10-2019, 01:49 AM( This post was last modified: 12-10-2019, 01:49 AM by Shadow )
I used once quite some time to learn to separate great white shark and basking shark. Here are some details which I try to find from photos and videos. That second dorsal fin isn´t pointed out in this, but it should have been. It is one quite clear detail and it´s easy to see in these pictures and same can be seen when looking at real photos and videos, when paying attention.
(07-24-2019, 03:35 PM)Shadow Wrote: I have seen recently some videos, where headlines have been like 25-35 feet great white shark etc. In many cases that big shark is actually a basking shark. In some cases people then again just exaggerate size of the shark, maybe not on purpose, but if a big great white shark swims close to boat, 16 feet is easily 25 feet, when people post videos on youtube :)
But because there really is a shark, which can be 25-35 feet and even a bit more and which can be mixed to great white shark, here two differences, which can be often noticed if paying attention while watching footage.
First thing is dorsal fin, in some cases difference can be difficult to notice, but in many cases actually very easy. Dorsal fin of a basking shark is often like top of triangle, both sides diagonal. Great white shark has then again more like so, that backside of dorsal fin is straight line downwards and front side is diagonal. This picture should open up the case, when situation is clear.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Another difference is then position of dorsal fin compared to pectoral fins. Great white shark has dorsal fin closer to pectoral fins in way, that if drawing line straight down from front of dorsal fin, that line touches backside of pectoral fins. From points, where these fins are attached to body.
When looking at baskin shark, there is small, but usually clear gap, if you draw same line straight down from front of dorsal fin and then look at pectoral fins.
Here some photos to show the difference.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
One more image, in this up to bottom: Great white shark, Porbeagle shark, Shortfin Mako shark, Baskin shark and Bluea shark.
*This image is copyright of its original author
In pictures like this it looks like impossible to mix these sharks, but when basking shark swims mouth closed, it looks so different, than in many pictures and photos taken, when it has mouth wide open. Also color differences are often pretty impossible to use as reliable ways to identify, when light conditions, projections (or is reflections better term) have effect. These two characteristics then again are usually possible to see at some point. And if not giving 100% certainty always, at least much better estimation is possible than most people can do, when they give opinions based on what they want to see, not what careful observer, who knows differences, sees there.
But when seeing "sensational" headlines, it´s good to remember, that yes, there are giant sharks in the ocean as we speak, but those biggest of the big, basking sharks and whale sharks aren´t predators.
(12-10-2019, 01:23 AM)Shadow Wrote: My main point in this discussion is, that when someone wants to claim, that there is a world record individual (and by far!) of any species noticed somewhere, but there is not a single one expert of that species saying anything.... double check, triple check and use some time with sources. Youtube is full of videos with fancy headlines with no connection to reality. Some newspapers/medias also publish articles without paying too much attention if they get just some clicks.
No one is claiming it as a world record, the fisherman were simply estimating it's size.
Point is, that 25-30 feet would be a world record if great white shark and by far. That alone should ring some bells when finding that kind of videos. It was said, that this shark was "reported" while in reality it was just some sensational headlines, no real reports about anything.
More information:
In the book "Mediterranean Great White Sharks: A Comprehensive Study Including All Recorded Sightings" from 2015, the authors present a list of many white sharks, sadly many are contradictory and some are estimations. The longest was 587 cm "actually" measured from Tunisia (estimated weight at 2,000 kg) and the heaviest a female of 2,300 kg from Spain (total length of 500 cm). Here is the picture of the longest female:
*This image is copyright of its original author
There are other especimens of 600 cm but are just estimations. There is a story of one of 670 cm but other report of the same animal says it was 570 cm, weight at about 2,032 kg.
This other source says that while the longest specimens in European museums probably measured up to 600 cm, the longest completelly reconstructed was of 589 cm in total length:
*This image is copyright of its original author
In the book "Sharks The Animal Answer Guide" from 2014, there is a part dedicated about the size of the white shark, check it out:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Finally, the statements of the FAO in this book of 2001:
*This image is copyright of its original author
It seems that about 6 meters long and about 2,000 kg is about the maximum that a white shark can get.
12-10-2019, 10:38 AM( This post was last modified: 12-11-2019, 09:27 PM by BorneanTiger )
@GuateGojira @Shadow @Pckts @epaiva Unless that shark is a hybrid between the great white and basking sharks, hence why it has features of both species (like the white underside, which would be seen in Great Whites, but not basking sharks, and because the white colour is visible from different angles, I rule out the possibility of it being a light-trick), and why Ben Wigren didn't say that it is "certainly" a basking shark, but "most certainly" a basking shark, hence he didn't fully refute the claim by J. B. Currell, rather, he mostly rejected it:
12-10-2019, 11:23 AM( This post was last modified: 12-15-2019, 12:38 AM by Shadow )
(12-10-2019, 10:38 AM)BorneanTiger Wrote: @GuateGojira @Shadow @Pckts @epaiva Unless that shark is a hybrid between the great white and basking sharks, hence why it has features of both species (like the white underside, which would be seen in Great Whites, but not basking sharks):
Hybrid blacktip shark; credit: University of Queensland
*This image is copyright of its original author
That was in every way looking to be a regular basking shark. In that video was nothing special really. Also basking sharks can have some color variations and from right angle in water light and reflections can make confusing things. Some details also are quite difficult to really separate from each others. But when looking at that shark and stopping video in certain points, all typical characteristics of a basking shark can be found. Gap between pectoral fins and dorsal fin. Dorsal fin is also a perfect example of a typical basking shark. Second dorsal fin, big and clearly what basking sharks have. Also when looking some details which are a bit more difficult to notice like head and snout area and pectoral fins, all point out a basking shark.
Also experienced shark biologist sees nothing special in this (my posting #94 and Greg Skomal). Better not to start make up some imaginary explanations to this case. Fisherman got overly exited, that´s only extraordinary thing in this. A good example how "myths" are born, when people do that. Just pay attention when you see headlines, which are out of this world.
