There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
--- Peter Broekhuijsen ---

  • 3 Vote(s) - 2 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Man-eaters

United States Pckts Offline
Bigcat Enthusiast
******
#16

(04-07-2015, 10:37 AM)'GuateGojira' Wrote: Check this words, from the book "The Wild Cat Book" from Fiona and Mel Sunquist (2014), about why jaguars are not man-eaters:

*This image is copyright of its original author


What do you think? It is interesting that jaguars avoid humans as much as they can, but sadly, the cattle is such an easy prey that sometimes they risk they lives for a good meal. It is also interesting that a little group of brave dogs is more than enough to keep jaguars away.
 

 
To take what Gaute posted a bit further, here is a great write up on Jaguars and why they may not be suseptable to becoming "man eaters"
https://www.thedodo.com/community/arabin...tmlJanuary 29, 2015  This post was created by a member of the Dodo Community, where anyone can post fascinating stories, photos, videos and more.Join the Dodo Community hereWhatever adaptive abilities evolution and natural selective pressures had bestowed upon the jaguar, its ability to survive in an increasingly degraded, overpopulated world of humans with abundant weapons eventually came to hinge on how feared, valued, and tolerated it was by humans occupying what had been the jaguar's world. Perhaps this is why the most important and most distinctive element of jaguarness, the characteristic that has allowed the jaguar, one of the planet's most powerful living beasts, to coexist with humans in a way that other large mammals or apex predators could not, is that of nonaggression.I call the jaguar "the reluctant warrior" because of the choices it makes, how it uses its jaguarness. Humans who have lived or worked with jaguars all acknowledge the power, fierceness, and savagery of the animal and, at the same time, its non-aggressive nature towards humans. Since the early nineteenth century, tens of thousands of people have been killed by tigers, lions, and leopards. In some cases, individuals from each of these species have become serial man-eaters. From 1900 until recent times, at least 25 kills of humans by puma were confirmed in the United States and Canada. But in the wild, there are very few recorded instances of jaguars killing people and no instances of jaguars becoming a hunter of men, a true man-eater. One attempt to explain this phenomenon points to the fact that jaguars did not evolve alongside hominids, with the first real evidence of jaguar–human interactions found only in the New World. I begin this story in a chapter from my book "An Indomitable Beast." 
*This image is copyright of its original author
Expansive landscape mosaic of the northern Pantanal of Brazil. (Photo by Steve Winter, Panthera.) Rafael Hoogesteijn, a respected veterinarian and jaguar biologist whose 1992 book "The Jaguar" is still one of the classic natural-history books on the species, now works with Panthera in the Brazilian Pantanal. As of this writing, he has had 79 jaguar encounters with up to four jaguars seen together at once. Twenty-two of the encounters occurred while he was walking alone and unarmed or when he approached a jaguar from a car, bicycle, motorcycle, or horse (other encounters involved boats, helicopters, and captures). During these encounters, each of which lasted up to 20 minutes, he followed jaguars traveling and watched them mating. Only once did Rafael feel threatened.While following approximately 30 meters (99 feet) behind a male jaguar that was following a female in heat, the animal suddenly turned, roared, and charged straight at him, teeth barred, ears back, and nape hairs erect. Rafael stood his ground and the jaguar stopped 10 to 15 meters (33 to 38 feet) away, then turned and disappeared into the nearby river. Perhaps this was a bluff, or what Rafael called "a mock attack." Perhaps, had Rafael turned and run, the outcome might have been different. Clearly the jaguar must have felt threatened and reacted explosively, but then it reassessed the situation and made the decision to stand down. Killing or hurting Rafael would have accomplished nothing for the animal, except perhaps injury to itself.I had a similar experience to that of Rafael while watching a big male jaguar recover from sedative after I had captured and radio collared it during my work in Belize. I had laid the jaguar back in an open trap to recover, waiting nearby to ensure that no other jaguar came and injured the immobilized animal. Worried that the jaguar was taking too long to wake up, I walked to the side of the trap and poked him in his hindquarters with a stick. Suddenly, a clear-eyed jaguar looked directly into my face, leapt up, and was out of the trap in seconds. As I sprinted for the safety of my truck a short distance away, the jaguar chased after me. Realizing I could not outrun the jaguar, I turned and screamed "NO!" with all the energy I could muster and with no reason to think that this would stop the charging predator. Yet, the jaguar did stop, the anger of the moment dissipated, and he turned calmly towards the jungle. Clearly, this drugged and newly collared jaguar had cause for dismay, even retribution. Still, he walked away. 
*This image is copyright of its original author
A jaguar crawling under a cattle fence during the night in order to move through a cattle ranch in the corridor. (Photo by Steve Winter, Panthera.) When animals are faced with conflict, they react with a discharge of the sympathetic nervous system priming the animal for either fighting or fleeing — the classic "fight or flight response." Sometimes the response initiates a period of heightened awareness, during which the animal rapidly processes behavioral signals from the adversary before choosing to react. In this complex behavioral arena of conflict or stress situations, jaguars, more often than not, ultimately choose non-engagement.Some have misinterpreted the wariness, secretiveness, and nonaggression of jaguars as cowardice. During his explorations of Honduras in the 1800s, William Vincent Wells stated that "the jaguar is naturally a coward, and is seldom seen except in unfrequented places." Hunters who have run jaguars with dogs have been surprised by what they suppose to be the "fear" exhibited by a predator that could easily overpower or kill the much smaller dogs chasing it. But the jaguar's flight from danger through dense forest with lots of possible hiding places and escape routes is likely a better evolutionary strategy than a direct encounter with anything capable of inflicting injury. Injury is best avoided in the disease and parasite filled tropical jungles. And anyone who has witnessed the power and ferocity of a jaguar that is cornered or on the attack would never describe this species as "cowardly." I will never forget the feelings I had looking into the face of the first jaguar we had chased for hours through the jungle until it was treed with our dogs. One line from my field notes said it all: "Those eyes were watching me with no trace of fear or anger, but with thoughts I'd never know, and listening to voices I'd never hear."Only the foolish do not respect a jaguar's space when they encounter the animal. Although jaguars usually spend their time watching, waiting, and maintaining a state of readiness, when the jaguar takes action, its movements are quick, brutal, and highly aggressive. One needs only to examine the remains of jaguar kills — holes in the skull and crushed vertebrae — to see the big cat's potential ferocity. Jaguars are warriors. And like all great warriors, their success and longevity comes not from the number of fights fought, but the number of fights avoided. When a fight does occur, it is to accomplish a necessary end result. Ideally, the fight is finished quickly and decisively with an expedient return to calm equanimity. 
*This image is copyright of its original author
The indomitable beast leaping for a piece of food hanging from a tree in Brazil. (Photo by Steve Winter, Panthera.) Text and images excerpted from "An Indomitable Beast: The Remarkable Journey of the Jaguar," now available from Island Press.Headline photo caption: Jaguar traveling in daytime during the dry season at the edge of a cattle ranch along part of the jaguar corridor in the Pantanal, Brazil. (Photo by Paul Goldstein.)

 
Reply

United States Pckts Offline
Bigcat Enthusiast
******
#17

Another Side note, the man whos images I post on the captive cats thread where you see tigers, lions, leopards and Jags all being raised together says this about Jaguars

"they are extremely loyal" and "great fighters"
 
Reply

Guatemala GuateGojira Offline
Expert & Researcher
*****
#18
( This post was last modified: 04-08-2015, 10:56 AM by GuateGojira )

According with the Sunquist (2014), the jaguars are the most difficult to train of the big cats. That will explain why there are very few jaguars in circus (I have saw no one in a show, by the way).

The book "An Indomitable Beast: The Remarkable Journey of the Jaguar" is a great book from the great expert, scientist-conservationist and big-cat lover Alan Rabinowitz. I have this book, so I will find more information about jaguar-human interaction at it.

It is incredible to say that the jaguars are known to fight and kill all the animals in the American continent*, but only the man and the domestic dog (in group at least) are capable of intimidate them**.

Notes:
* Although jaguars and bison-moose-red deer have never coexisted, as far I know, I am pretty sure that they could be good prey for the big cat.
** Probably the big brown bears too, but who knows, there are many cases of cougars intimidating brown bears in the wild.
 
By the way, the article posted by Pckts was also from Dr Alan Rabinowitz, here is the correct link: https://www.thedodo.com/community/arabin...30819.html
2 users Like GuateGojira's post
Reply

Netherlands peter Offline
Expert & Researcher
*****
Moderators
#19
( This post was last modified: 04-09-2015, 09:41 AM by peter )

Those who wrote wild jaguars have little experience with humans could have a point. Captive jaguars, however, have and they, judging from the number of accidents, don't seem to enjoy it very much.

I interviewed about 10 trainers, maybe more. The trainer I remember most was the one who performed with jaguars. His males, although quite a bit smaller than lions and tigers, were impressive animals. They didn't care one bit about humans. He didn't need to tell me he was very wary of them, as I saw it right away. Of all trainers I interviewed, he was the most troubled. With good reason, he told me. I hope he is alive and well.

I agree with Rabinowitz that the jaguar is very jaguarlike, meaning they live in their own world. Maybe they compare to polar bears. Polars, with good reason, are considered as very dangerous, but when they like you, you never have to be worried. Jaguars have a bad reputation, but it seems they are able and willing to connect to some humans. If they do, accidents will not happen.  
Reply

United States Roflcopters Offline
Modern Tiger Expert
****
#20
( This post was last modified: 04-14-2015, 05:40 PM by Roflcopters )

(04-09-2015, 09:39 AM)'peter' Wrote: Those who wrote wild jaguars have little experience with humans could have a point. Captive jaguars, however, have and they, judging from the number of accidents, don't seem to enjoy it very much.

I interviewed about 10 trainers, maybe more. The trainer I remember most was the one who performed with jaguars. His males, although quite a bit smaller than lions and tigers, were impressive animals. They didn't care one bit about humans. He didn't need to tell me he was very wary of them, as I saw it right away. Of all trainers I interviewed, he was the most troubled. With good reason, he told me. I hope he is alive and well.

I agree with Rabinowitz that the jaguar is very jaguarlike, meaning they live in their own world. Maybe they compare to polar bears. Polars, with good reason, are considered as very dangerous, but when they like you, you never have to be worried. Jaguars have a bad reputation, but it seems they are able and willing to connect to some humans. If they do, accidents will not happen.  




 


Peter, this is what i got from a jaguar study not too long ago. Interesting thing to note is that Tigers, Lions, Leopards and even Cougars made it to the list but Jaguars didn't. not even a single death by them. 


*This image is copyright of its original author


Sadly, there was one verified death after this table was published and that death happened in 2008.
Quote:In Brazil, the only documented, unprovoked, fatal attack
by a jaguar on a human occurred on 24 June 2008, when a young fisherman was killed
by a jaguar while sleeping in his tent on a bank of the Paraguay River in the Pantanal.
One speculation has been that this unique incident was a result of jaguars in that area
becoming habituated to people around baits used to attract jaguars to be photographed
by tourists.

 

http://www.academia.edu/2221310/Human_Di..._Oxford_UK

Go to Page 58 

 

 
2 users Like Roflcopters's post
Reply

Guatemala GuateGojira Offline
Expert & Researcher
*****
#21
( This post was last modified: 04-15-2015, 10:43 AM by GuateGojira )

So, this "unprovoked" attack, was in fact, caused by humans. [img]images/smilies/dodgy.gif[/img]

Jaguars normally avoid people, like Dr Rabinowitz say. There are several reports of jaguars attacking humans, but none of them was for predation. That is way is well know that jaguars are not man-eaters... for the moment, at least.
 
Reply

United States Pckts Offline
Bigcat Enthusiast
******
#22

But I think the lack of Jaguar attacks on humans needs to be looked at realisticly, they said that jaguars terrain really doesn't share much overlap with humans the way lions in africa or tigers in india does, I think if Jaguars shared their landscape with constant human pressure the accounts may be different. But that is simply a hunch and nothing more.
Reply

Guatemala GuateGojira Offline
Expert & Researcher
*****
#23
( This post was last modified: 04-16-2015, 08:39 AM by GuateGojira )

In fact, jaguars do share the same amount of terrain with humans like lions and tigers, although not much as leopards.

One point is culture. In America, the jaguar was worshiped as the tiger in Asia, but the jaguars always had that instinct to avoid people and despite its sacred state, they could be killed for its skins, this was a common occurrence in the Mayan culture in Guatemala and the Aztecs in Mexico. In Guatemala there is, as far I know, not a single case of a jaguar attacking a human, but this could be because many of those cases are never reported and the "problematic" animal is just killed by the locals. The jaguar was also feared as the lion on modern post-colonial culture, while the puma was stated to be the "friend of the Christian" in the old books because it was said that they don't attacked humans. However, it is clear that the attacks of pumas were more common than those of jaguars which prove that the old stories of evil jaguars were probably just an intent to dissipate the old cults of the jaguar in Latin America.

Other point is the over-hunt. Jaguars were hunted intensively, with literally thousands of skins been exported legally from South America to North America and Europe. Probably, this also affected the behavior of the great cat. I think is fair to mention one curious case with the Snow Leopard, which is say that is so tame in presence of humans that even a child with stones can frighten it. This could suggest that the normally calm behavior of the jaguar, plus the over-hunt, have prepared to jaguar to avoid humans in order to survive.

Finally, the worst problem between jaguars and humans is the cattle. In all the countries of Central and South America there is the problem of the cattle raiders, but this is because jaguars evolved to kill large animals, which were extinct since about 12,000 years ago in its habitat. So, when the Europeans bring cattle and horses, it was like if the large prey returned to the new world and the jaguars began to kill them with alacrity. This had created a big problem, specially in areas like the Pantanal.

So, despite the intense relation between jaguars and humans since ancient times, it is very interesting to see that this great cat has not reacted like its cousins of the old world. In modern times, thankfully, there is no more "legal" commerce with jaguar skins, but the conflict with cattle owners and the habitat destruction is still the first problem to the jaguar preservation. It is sad to say that the jaguar is extinct in the USA (native population, those animals since 2000 came from Mexico), El Salvador and Chile. However, new efforts from great scientists like Dr Rabinowitz, creating the famous "Jaguar Corridors", are the best examples that conserving large cats and sustaining a healthy, although not always perfect, relation between humans and jaguars IS possible, with the effort of the Governments.

Check this image about the jaguar corridors initiative:

*This image is copyright of its original author


I most say that one of the most healthy and stable populations of wild jaguars live in my country Guatemala, specifically in the area of El Petén, with about 250 to 300 specimens. [img]images/smilies/smile.gif[/img] However, this doesn't mean that the population is safe at all, there are still some illegal hunts and many specimens are been poisoned when they kill cattle. Guatemala has a loooooong way to walk for jaguar conservation and Belize is a good example, with about 600 specimens at a smaller area. Interestingly, all the jaguars in this region are among the smallest ones, with some specimens no larger than a large retriever dog. Other strong point in the jaguar conservation is that ALL the populations are genetically the same, so instead of several "subspecies", all the jaguars from Mexico to Argentina are one unique species with no subspecies.
 
This is an interesting link on the conflict between humans and jaguar: http://www.jaguarnetwork.org/hjc.htm

It seems that at difference with the other Panthera members, jaguars are not man-eaters and should be discarded from this topic, which focus on "Man-Eaters".
2 users Like GuateGojira's post
Reply

Netherlands peter Offline
Expert & Researcher
*****
Moderators
#24
( This post was last modified: 04-19-2015, 09:48 AM by peter )

A JUNGLE TRIP 

I've been in Surinam, French Guyana and the northern tip of Brazil in the early eighties of the last century. For some weeks, I was alone with my girlfriend in the wild. Car, canoe and tent. More than once, we saw Indians on the river. Most went their way, but a young man traveling with his wife and child accepted the invitation to come over. We had a talk with gestures and pictures drawn in the sand. I asked about the black caiman, the anaconda, the puma, the jaguar and poisonous snakes. 

He made it clear people of his community and others he had known had been killed by jaguars and adviced me to be careful. This was in French Guyana. Second place was for the anaconda. They sometimes attack and consume children. Third place was for river stingrays, electric eales and, near the coast, sharks. Incidents with poisonous snakes and the black caiman were few, but those with jaguars were not infrequent. The most dangerous of all, of course, were tropical diseases and unknown viruses.  

Sometime later, in a village on the border between French Guyana and Surinam, I witnessed a fight between an Indian and some locals near the place we stayed. The Indian probably had been cheated. When it was five to one, I stepped in. The Indian left in his canoe. The locals were certain he would return with his friends. They were right. At night, I woke up from the noise. The villagers had to compensate the Indian. After settling his affairs, the Indian then came over to see me. I asked the same questions I had asked the first Indian and the answers were the same. The jaguar was much feared by Indians.

Returning to Surinam, we met a European with a clouded past. He caught and shipped wild animals, heard about my interest in them and invited me. I saw puma's, jaguars, ocelots, jaguarundi's, a harpy eagle and many other animals. Most were sold in the USA through middlemen. He confirmed jaguars were much feared and with good reason. 

In the last week, we did a jungle tour. After some days, I was done with the tourists. We asked one of the assistents if he would show us a bit more. The young man agreed. The first night, we camped on a river island. Next morning, big prints of a large jaguar were found very close to the tent. My home, the jaguar said. My feeling was we could stay another day and the guide agreed. It was a paradise. Next morning, the tree very close to the tent was scratched and there also were scratch marks right in front of the tent. This meant the time to leave had arrived. 

The guide knew about the jungle. Quite remarkable, as most who live in the jungle know next to nothing and what they know is based on hearsay and fantasy. In French Guyana, I asked a fisherman on the shore about sharks and he said he had never seen one. Before I started swimming, he asked me to bring in the net. He promised us fish, so I agreed. I had to go in the sea to get to the net. On the beach, I saw a big fish in the net. The shark was large enough to rip me apart. He had also caught a very large stingray and killed it in the most brutal way. The man, although a fisherman all his long life, underlined that many people who live in wild places are not to be trusted. Same for wild animals. There's no rules. Every meeting stands on itself and you have to act accordingly. When you do that and stay wary, chances are you die of old age. If you don't, the duende will get you.  

The guide was the exception. He said big jungle cats are not that different from us. There's a universal right to camp on the territory of other 'jungle men' when you travel, but it's one day only. All in all, hunting animals, although nosy, are friendly, but one always has to remember life is difficult and there's also grumpy and dangerous characters, just like in humans. He knew of cases of people killed by jaguars.

The point I want to make is the Amazone forest is a very large and unknown place. Kind of a black hole. We think we know a few things, but my conclusion is we don't. This conclusion is based on what I read, saw and heard. I can understand biologists presenting the animal they're interested in the best possible way, but every creature has two sides and you only see what he wants you to see. I'm not that sure about jaguars and the reason is what I heard about them. Indians really know about animals and they said jaguars are dangerous. 

The jaguars I saw were the size of large dogs, but they were more robust and didn't fear humans one bit. I'm not saying they hunt Indians, but they most certainly don't make room for them when they meet.  

I also saw an interview with a man who had made a documentary about jaguars in Brazil. It took him the best part of two years to finish the project (it was broadcasted on the BBC) and he said he had been afraid of them more than once. He also said he feared them more than other big cats. So what do we know?
3 users Like peter's post
Reply

United States Pckts Offline
Bigcat Enthusiast
******
#25

Thats a good point @peter
It's very hard to get true encounters between wild cats and natives since the outside world really has no contact with native people. But their insight is extemely useful and thats why people like Corbett seeked them out to help with his hunts and many others. I guess we can truly never know any big cats predation rate on humans but with the information at hand it does seem as though Jags are the least likely to attack us.
Reply

Netherlands peter Offline
Expert & Researcher
*****
Moderators
#26
( This post was last modified: 04-19-2015, 09:14 AM by peter )

MAN-EATING TIGRESS INDIA (2014)


This is a newspaper report about a man-eating tigress in northern India (Corbett Park). When the article was published, the tigress, thought to be involved in 9 human deaths, was still at large:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...llage.html
1 user Likes peter's post
Reply

Guatemala GuateGojira Offline
Expert & Researcher
*****
#27
( This post was last modified: 04-19-2015, 09:23 AM by GuateGojira )

I think that the conclusion about jaguars is simple, a wild animal is a "wild animal" and it will be always dangerous for any human.

The "common" jaguar behavior would be avoidance, but if compelling by "aggressive human attacks" or to defend a "domestic" kill, they can be dangerous. There are not "official" attacks on humans for "predation", but in some places, there are stories about these events that can't be ignored.

At the end, to say that jaguars are the least likely to attack humans is accurate, but certainly, I will be not very calm if I need to confront a wild jaguar in its green kingdom.
 
2 users Like GuateGojira's post
Reply

United States Roflcopters Offline
Modern Tiger Expert
****
#28

Jaguars got to be the most intimidating looking big cat ever, specially when you know how strong they are lb for lb. 
Reply

United States Pckts Offline
Bigcat Enthusiast
******
#29

(04-20-2015, 09:21 PM)'Roflcopters' Wrote: Jaguars got to be the most intimidating looking big cat ever, specially when you know how strong they are lb for lb. 

 

They are the "pit bulls" of the big cat world.
I love keeping track of WhiteTigerBlackJaguar on IG and FB, its the only place I get to see Jags interact and compare to all other big cats and its safe to say they are truly built like a tank, their a very cool cat, thats for sure.

 
Reply

India sanjay Offline
Wildanimal Enthusiast
*****
#30
( This post was last modified: 05-10-2015, 07:58 AM by sanjay )

I am not sure, But Due to recent killing of forest guard name Rampal by the Ranthombore one of most famous tiger (T-24), Some people are calling him Mean eater (Aadam Khor).
According to the sources he has killed 4 people so far. The first one was partly eaten, the second one almost completely, the third one was being "cleaned up" for eating before others from the Forest Department aggressive pushed the tiger of the body and in the fourth case(This one) many people landed up there within seconds.
This statement is none other than one of the most biggest name in India wildlife Mr Aditya Singh. And unfortunately he consider him a man eater. He want him to be shot dead.

His main post that clarify the incident
Yesterday (8th May 2015) a dominant male tiger, called Ustaad or T 24, who is at the end of his prime attacked and killed a Forest Guard called Rampal Saini in the evening. There are lots of versions going around and few, if any of them, are close to the truth. I reached there 20 minutes after the incident happened and this is what I saw:

"I was on a safari in Ranthambhore national park with my friend Dharmendra Khandal of Tiger Watch. At around 1805 hours we were parked near a lake when we heard a wireless message in a Forest Department jeep that was parked next to us, about a tiger attacking a forest guard near the “barrier” (very close to the main gate of the park). We rushed towards the location and by the time we reached we were told that Forest Guard Rampal Saini was attacked and killed by a tiger. His was taken to the hospital but was declared dead on arrival. Everyone present there was talking about how a young tiger called “Sultan” (or T 72) had attacked the guard. However none of the people present there had seen this happen. In fact no one present there had even seen a tiger.
At that time we were not sure if it was a leopard or a tiger, let alone which tiger. A few minutes after we reached there Dharmendra spoke to the DFO Mr. Sudarshan Sharma, who was on his way back from Jaipur after attending a meeting of the state Wild Board. He told us to wait there for ACF Daulat Singh to reach and we did not have to wait long. Dharmendra, a few forest guards and I jumped into the ACF’s jeep and we went out to search for the tiger to identify the individual. In the meantime the ACF, who has a near lifetime of experience in handling man animal conflict, had evacuated the area and asked a few other Forest Department vehicle to park strategically to search for the tiger. While we ere looking around for the tiger, we got a message from one of the Forest vehicles that the tiger had just been seen where the guard was killed. We rushed back and found T 24 or Ustaad standing over the same spot where the guard was killed. We found him sniffing the entire area and then looking for the body. The tiger was in an aggressive mood and charged at the one of the Forest Department vehicles. After searching for the body for some time the tiger gave up and slowly started walking towards the Singhdwar gate, all the while marking his territory.
We followed in the ACF’s jeep and just as we crossed the Misradhara gate, Dharmendra fell down from the jeep as the driver braked hard to stop going over a big rock. The tiger instantly turned around and started coming towards our vehicle in a manner that could be only be explained as stalking. Dharmendra jumped back in the jeep just before the driver reversed back and the tiger sniffed the area where Dharmendra had fallen down. Around 1920 the tiger disappeared in the woods heading towards the Sultanpur area."

For the Killed Forest Guard, His words are like this-

"Rampal Mali - a forest guard that I knew for over 18 years was killed by a tiger near the main gate of the Ranthambhore National Park last evening. A sad day. A few years ago we had tried, unsuccessfully, to save this same guard's son's life after he was bitten by a cobra. Rest in Peace Rampal - you will be missed."

Below is complete conversation on this matter from the page of aditya singh. Must read

Viren Mohan: Aditya.... what will be the likely fate of this tiger, given its stalking of Dharmendra, and its 4 victims already? Has it consumed any of its previous victims?

Aditya Singh: The first one was partly eaten, the second one almost completely, the third one was being "cleaned up" for eating before others from the Forest Department aggressive pushed the tiger of the body and in this case many people landed up there within seconds. Yes he is eating those he kills.

Trayambak Ojha: Thanks a lot Dicky, this helped clear the air over the issue direct from the horse's mouth. I just hope Rampalji gets peace and his family gets over his demise in any way as possible. Would definitely contribute in any way possible.

Debasis Bose: Thank you Aditya for the information.

Subhankar Paul: Hope at last we get a credible version.

Shivir Chordia: Always read about such stuff in stories, hearing what you say, makes me belive that tigers do change when they taste human blood. This is a potentially a dangerous tiger now.

    Aditya Singh: Yes very dangerous
   

Pradeep G. Kothari: Aditya Singh ji, the irreparable loss is done, what next ?

Aditya Singh: The tiger has to go.

    Shaz Syed: heart breaking
    

Radhaswami Bangale: It's a tragic incident. May God bless him peace

Suchandra Kundu: I was just waiting for your account.. Thanks My deep condolences to the bereaved family

Donny Singh: Not a good sign... All the makings of a Maneater... Though I pray not

Bhanu Devgan: that's sad .....

Rajneesh Chaudhary: i agree with donny......feel sad for the guard

Madhulika Singh: Sad and dangerous. This incident should not be ignored.

    Aditya Singh: It will not. He will be declared a man eater in 2-3 days time

Ronojoy Sinha: Sir will he be put down?

    Aditya Singh: No idea but he will be taken out.

Kiran Bhangare: Dicky, thanks for clearing the air of speculations. Rampalji R.I.P. I guess it will be a wait and watch situation for deciding on T24's fate.

Preeti Takle: What will happen to T24 now? Did he consume his earlier victims?

    Aditya Singh: Yes

Nitin Gera: A very sad turn of events... taken over by conflicting emotions for both man and animal...gives a feeling of helplessness.

Ateeb Hussain: Thanks for the update, sincerely hope the monetary compensation and job promised gets delivered in a timely and smooth manner without the aggreived family having to run from pillar to post.

    Aditya Singh: It got delivered last night
   
Mayank Chawla: He is being tracked as a suspected man eater now ?

    Aditya Singh: Yes

    Mayank Chawla: Oops...that's harsh for everyone.
 

Sunando Sen: Thanks for putting all the speculation to rest. Some tigers are just not as tolerant of human presence as others I guess

    Aditya Singh: He is very tolerant of humans but does kill them once in a while - for food

Rini Jangid: Dharmendra Khandal Bhaiya, wat was d feeling like ??? U on ground wid a tiger around..i hv goose bumps alrdy!

    Aditya Singh: I was scared

Shilpa Patel: Oh that sounds thrilling n scary too dada. But its sad if its T 24 killing the guard. Hope things settle down soon with him soon n not been declared a man eater by FD..

    Aditya Singh: He has been declared a man eater. An official formality is left now

Priyvrat Gadhvi: I am reasonably sure after such behaviour and its previous history, T24 might be headed to captivity..tragic but necessary

Bridget Wijnberg Dallas: Condolences to his friends and family. The blessing is that At least he would have died quickly. I hope the tiger isn't shot. It just feels wrong.

Chitra Warrier: Are we talking about a tiger in the wild or some animal in the zoo. While we respect the fact that a life was lost we should remember that we are talking about a tiger that was only protecting it's territory.

    Aditya Singh: How do you know that ? I don't think you were there

Shreeya Athavale: Condolences

Suman Desarker: I was just waiting for Aditya's update and thanks for it.

Sadaf Randerian: Thank you Aditya for giving us all a detailed update. Really appreciate it as it comes from a reliable and learned person as yourself. Prayers for Rampalji and his family. May He RIP. Hoping T24 doesn't meet a fate he doesn't deserve. He's beautiful albeit aggressive.
Hope Dharmendra ji is well.

Aditya Singh: He asked for this fate, in my opinion

    Sadaf Randerian: Excuse my ignorance but what fate are we referring to here?

Mandeep Oberoi: Do keep us posted on developments.. Also status on T24.

Sandeep Singh: This is proving time and again that the patrolling done by forest guards on foot is a dangerous call as they always tend to be agressive on seeing people on foot and feel threatened and this is the result of this. It's in their their genes as the poaching was done by people on foot and not by vehicles. Time and again we are putting the lives of guards at risk by not giving them proper patrolling vehicle . May his soul rest in peace .

    Aditya Singh: Vehicles can cover barely 2-3% of the park. So what patrolling are we talking about if you can cover only 2-3%

Subhradip Sen: Thanks a lot Aditya for the update..please keep us posted..

Suchismita Sahu: Very sad.. Hope poor T24 / Ustaad will not be penalised for it.. It's not his fault though it's an unfortunate incident..

    Aditya Singh: He has to be penalised. he killed humans for food

Abhishek Singh Tanwar: Its all our fault although we know that from last one or two year t24 is just moving around to the main gate or to the common road govt officers must take a decigion now people in delhi or some were els will say its man eating tiger ...

    Aditya Singh: It is a man eating tiger. he is one of the 7 or 8 tigers that move around near the road though he is the only one that kills.

    Abhishek Singh Tanwar: I agree but when we no all things why we not shift them to some other zone . He is very wel capable to surviv any were

    Abhishek Singh Tanwar: I reply you sir . T24 man eating tiger is the biggest attraction for the business of ranthambore national park its the major reason .

    Abhishek Singh Tanwar: Thats why he is not going to shift any were.   

Arvind Ramamurthy: Man!!! That is one tiger to be scared of!

Abhishek Singh Tanwar: Befor 2 monts only t24 come out from the serious ill ness . Now he is targeting the easy task its very simple i respect rampal ji . Bagwan un ke aatma ko shanti de but plz dont blame to ustaad t24

Abhishek Singh Tanwar: Adity sir you should say some thing


Aditya Singh: I strongly believe that he should be shot or taken out of the wild forever. Believe me you would feel the same if you were there.

    Abhishek Singh Tanwar: Sorry sir but you are connected with wild life and even you think he should be shot
   
Sundar Sarma: Peace to the departed soul! And more power to you Aditya for taking it upon yourself to keep us always with the actual developments at Ranthambhore.

Gaurav Chawla: Thanks for the info sir

Amit Khandelwal: Don't want to see T-24 in captivity Or declare as Maneater....even tiger identify is still not confirmed... some of the local/national newspaper says it was T-72...i don't care whosoever the Tiger was, he just didn't like the presence of human in his territory... RIP Rampal Saini

    Aditya Singh: If he does not like the presence of humans then why does he eat them ? I would love to hear your views if one of your relatives was the one eaten.

    Amit Khandelwal: Aditya frankly telling you whenever i visit any of the tiger reserve, i know i'm visiting at my own risk...i cannot blame any wild animal for any mishap if it's happens with me or any of my group members...i'm aware about the bond which one's supposed to signed while obtaining the permit/entering the park? I'm aware that insurance companies do not pay claims for such accidents if happens inside the park (even cattle compensation rule also state this in BTR, don't know what rule is followed in RTR)....so it's a identified risk which is willingly chosen by our self so why to blame the tiger? I'v seen the partial eaten bodies (in pics) of 3 peoples killed by T-24 in the past but cannot comment on the part why those bodies were partially eaten by the Tiger (only expert can give their views)...but what i understood is he didn't become a man eater and was dependent on his natural prey only (3 kills in 5 years).  

Roshan Panjwani: I am nowhere close to being an expert on the topic - however, is relocating the tiger to a forest that is not open to tourism, an option?

    Ram Mohan: Relocation should be avoided, it would only increase the competition wid d pre-existing populations in the new area....Mr. Roshan neither am I an expert....just putting forward my views regarding it.
   
Sonia Sehgal: Best would be if the tiger is kept in captivity.....he would be kept alive. No such horrible incidents should occur. Its such a sad incident in Ranthambhore national park history. RIP Rampalji.

Abhishek Singh Tanwar: Aditya sir you were their after 20 min ustaad killed who knows that he kill just to eat them not to protect him self . I m sorry but rampal ji family member was died becz of the bite of a cobra if i m not wrong so what it means that snake wann eat them 2 or to protect.

Bhargava Srivari: I can imagine (at least I think so) what you're feelings are after someone you are closely connected to was killed by the tiger, but I'm not sure I quite understand the reasoning for killing the tiger as fair. May be I'm missing something because I was no where near the scene but I sincerely hope you all are right in your reasoning and and are not acting in the grief of losing the guard. Once the tiger goes, unfortunately its gone forever.
Don't misunderstand me as I have immense respect for you and believe that spending close to 20 years in the park would have surely given you enough wisdom to understand situations as they are; I'm only trying to get my own understanding right.

Amit Khandelwal: Better to kill the tiger rather keeping him in captivity

Geoffrey C. Ward: Surely, Tigers known to have killed humans with the intention of eating them should be eliminated. Anything else is foolish sentimentality -- and terrible for tiger survival in the long run

Vivienne Chauhan: Aditya, thank you for your true reporting of this incident, and all I can say is I sincerely hope that you, yours and all the people I know in Ranthambhore will be extraordinarily careful and please stay safe.  I know you would not say in a lighthearted manner that a tiger should be removed, and if someone of your on the ground knowledge says this should happen, then I, for one, believe you. Again, please all of you stay safe.

Ganesh Prakasam: Worrying times indeed, hope Rampal family gain courage to overcome this sad phase

Jeanette Leinweber: I’ve never read any such manipulative horrid and utter nonsense like this “report”. What a disgusting mindset!!!! Do you really believe Ustad sniffing the place does entitle you to assume he killed the man? And now you think you have to require to remove the animal? Who do you think who you are?! A f’n photographer who has nothing better in minds than bothering these cats for some personal gain and who thinks he knows it all??? Get your greedy nasty arse out of the woods there and stop annoying the wildlife!!!!!! You and your cadets here know much better that there is no prove that T-24 has killed this and or any of the other persons earlier! Just because the killings happened in his territory or him appearing on the scene not being amused of a screaming bunch of guys is not evidence enough!!! Shame on you!

Wild Fact: That's really very sad incident. We respect Aditya Sir. It doesn't matter who kill him.
According to me, Why ustaad has been taken so lightly if he has already killed 3 men in past. The decision should have been taken when he killed his 1st or 2nd victim.
As you mentioned he has past his prime and he has record of eating man in his past so precaution must have been taken so far.
Killing such a famous tiger is not solution.
I am sure this will divide the widlife community in 2 part.
Sir, we know you have better understanding about these animals and your feeling for Mr. Rampal, But I think there are much better solutions.
Since we all are wildlife lovers , How we can support bullet for a tiger ?

Avijit Sarkhel: To all those who feel very angry and feel killing this tiger is a must- please check or go to Sunderbans. This is a routine there. And people or forest department do not ask for the blood of every tiger that kills a man. Tigers are predators and they will 'kill'. That is why we love them. In fact we pay to watch a 'kill'. But when the prey is a human being it is VERY SAD'. It should not happen, it is a violation or aberration except in high man-animal conflict areas like Sunderbans. So all kind of methods need to be sorted to before even considering the ultimate step. This may involve radio collaring this tiger and keeping a team monitor its movements, certainly tranquillising it checking for injuries that are not obvious and ensuring that staff and villagers know it very well (creating good facial posters) can be some steps but killing it will be dangerous as it will set an example and later more animals will be killed at any opportunity in the name of conflict. 
1 user Likes sanjay's post
Reply






Users browsing this thread:
1 Guest(s)

About Us
Go Social     Subscribe  

Welcome to WILDFACT forum, a website that focuses on sharing the joy that wildlife has on offer. We welcome all wildlife lovers to join us in sharing that joy. As a member you can share your research, knowledge and experience on animals with the community.
wildfact.com is intended to serve as an online resource for wildlife lovers of all skill levels from beginners to professionals and from all fields that belong to wildlife anyhow. Our focus area is wild animals from all over world. Content generated here will help showcase the work of wildlife experts and lovers to the world. We believe by the help of your informative article and content we will succeed to educate the world, how these beautiful animals are important to survival of all man kind.
Many thanks for visiting wildfact.com. We hope you will keep visiting wildfact regularly and will refer other members who have passion for wildlife.

Forum software by © MyBB