There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
(03-09-2024, 07:00 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: I was thinking, is there any known example of duo coalition where both males reached atleast 13 yrs of age as are Ross males now? On top of that, they are still territorial.
Clearly particularly healty genes out there, 13 years old and still in top condition. Very few males are able to reach that point, not even mentioning entire coalition to reach that point be that duo or not.
Tyson and Fabio, what an incredible duo they continue to be. You'd be hard pressed to find a more successful duo, and one with more longevity. They have built such an amazing legacy. I think one of the keys to their success has been that they never really had a wandering eye, meaning that they had two prides, Birmingham and Birmingham Breakaway, and they were content with that, so whatever is in their DNA, greed is not part of that equation.
It is such an odd situation, Ross Males appear to have ceded their dominance over the Birmingham Pride to the Mbiris (I'm not sure if the Mbiris are also now dominant over the Birmingham Breakaways), yet the Ross Males remain territorial in the area. But the Ross Males are certainly not strangers to atypical behavior. Take for instance their permitting BYM to remain with the pride for years beyond what most young males are allowed, even years beyond what they permitted with the Birmingham Breakaway males, and the group of Birmingham males that includes the white male.
(03-10-2024, 04:52 AM)BA0701 Wrote: Take for instance their permitting BYM to remain with the pride for years beyond what most young males are allowed
They never permitted it lol BYM was lucky he didn't get killed at some point cuz he was playing with fire, and once he was injured he had no option but to stick with the pride as much as he could even if it meant risking his life.
(03-10-2024, 04:52 AM)BA0701 Wrote: even years beyond what they permitted with the Birmingham Breakaway males, and the group of Birmingham males that includes the white male.
That's not how I remember it? the breakaways left the pride at the normal age and the white male with his two brothers left a little early if anything. Those 3 were exploring the areas around them away from the pride at an early age and left at the perfect time.
The Ross males pretty much have a good cop and bad cop dynamic and it served them very well over the years. Tyson's aggressive personality got them early success as young males and Fabio's passive personality has given them stability, If both had Tyson's personality they would have probably gone down the Mbiri males domination path of constantly getting in fights and moving around more. BYM would definitely have not made it out alive if both had Tyson's personality, that's for sure.
(03-10-2024, 05:27 AM)sik94 Wrote: The Ross males pretty much have a good cop and bad cop dynamic and it served them very well over the years. Tyson's aggressive personality got them early success as young males and Fabio's passive personality has given them stability, If both had Tyson's personality they would have probably gone down the Mbiri males domination path of constantly getting in fights and moving around more. BYM would definitely have not made it out alive if both had Tyson's personality, that's for sure.
Interesting observation, which make sense.
Tyson doesnt look like the most "rational" lion out there, he is more of a "punch first then think" character, these lions are rarely lucky enough to see far old age.
But Fabio being calculated lion, he is like a voice of reason for his brother, although Tyson is prob pissed on him for that sometimes hehe.
03-10-2024, 08:57 PM( This post was last modified: 03-10-2024, 08:58 PM by BA0701 )
(03-10-2024, 05:16 AM)sik94 Wrote:
(03-10-2024, 04:52 AM)BA0701 Wrote: Take for instance their permitting BYM to remain with the pride for years beyond what most young males are allowed
They never permitted it lol BYM was lucky he didn't get killed at some point cuz he was playing with fire, and once he was injured he had no option but to stick with the pride as much as he could even if it meant risking his life.
(03-10-2024, 04:52 AM)BA0701 Wrote: even years beyond what they permitted with the Birmingham Breakaway males, and the group of Birmingham males that includes the white male.
That's not how I remember it? the breakaways left the pride at the normal age and the white male with his two brothers left a little early if anything. Those 3 were exploring the areas around them away from the pride at an early age and left at the perfect time.
The fact that Ross Males didn't kill BYM, is permitting it. There were plenty of opportunities to kill him, if they chose, it was Tyson who gave him his severe injury to begin with, but they allowed him to linger well after that. BYM had no say so, whatsoever, in if he was allowed to remain or not, but following his injury he had no choice but to let fate prevail, whatever that may be.
As for the breakaways leaving at the normal age, that comment proves my point, BYM was permitted to linger years longer than normal, whereas the Breakaway Males and the Birmingham Males with the white male left at what would be considered a normal time. My point was that the situation with BYM was in itself very strange, which we were all commenting on at the time.
03-10-2024, 09:50 PM( This post was last modified: 03-10-2024, 10:05 PM by Tr1x24 )
(03-10-2024, 08:57 PM)BA0701 Wrote: As for the breakaways leaving at the normal age, that comment proves my point, BYM was permitted to linger years longer than normal, whereas the Breakaway Males and the Birmingham Males with the white male left at what would be considered a normal time. My point was that the situation with BYM was in itself very strange, which we were all commenting on at the time.
Breakaways where not exactly under Ross males that closely, they rarely visit them, they pretty much left on their own, but keep returning to the pride even by last year.
White male and bros started to explore early, but still aswell keep returning to the pride and Ross males up until they made a move to north of Timbavati, which is not that much earlier then BYM moved off with Torchwood male (cant remember exact dates).
In both cases we started speculated that both parties might join Ross males, as both parties where occasionaly still with them and pride up to around 4.5 - 5 yrs of age.
I think problem is that, with Fabio being very passive in this act, Tyson had hard time ousting young males, especially when they grow in size, then he just gives up and "accepts" them.
I mean, we have photos of Fabio rubbing heads with both BYM and white male when those boys where already bigger then him, he looks to like young boys around hehe.
If i remember correctly, not long ago on video Tyson attacked current BYM, around the same age he did Osindile back in 2020.
Tyson is classic bully, when he sees he is stronger he will attack, but when males grow in size and strenght, he is like "i was joking, you can stay here, i actually dont mind" hehe, and then males just leave on their own for good when they feel ready.
(03-10-2024, 08:57 PM)BA0701 Wrote: As for the breakaways leaving at the normal age, that comment proves my point, BYM was permitted to linger years longer than normal, whereas the Breakaway Males and the Birmingham Males with the white male left at what would be considered a normal time. My point was that the situation with BYM was in itself very strange, which we were all commenting on at the time.
Breakaways where not exactly under Ross males that closely, they rarely visit them, they pretty much left on their own, but keep returning to the pride even by last year.
White male and bros started to explore early, but still aswell keep returning to the pride and Ross males up until they made a move to north of Timbavati, which is not that much earlier then BYM moved off with Torchwood male (cant remember exact dates).
In both cases we started speculated that both parties might join Ross males, as both parties where occasionaly still with them and pride up to around 4.5 - 5 yrs of age.
I think problem is that, with Fabio being very passive in this act, Tyson had hard time ousting young males, especially when they grow in size, then he just gives up and "accepts" them.
I mean, we have photos of Fabio rubbing heads with both BYM and white male when those boys where already bigger then him, he looks to like young boys around hehe.
If i remember correctly, not long ago on video Tyson attacked current BYM, around the same age he did Osindile back in 2020.
Tyson is classic bully, when he sees he is stronger he will attack, but when males grow in size and strenght, he is like "i was joking, you can stay here, i actually dont mind" hehe, and then males just leave on their own for good when they feel ready.
For sure Fabio not supporting Tyson in ousting the young males is why they stayed. To the point, as you mentioned, that Tyson just kind of through up his paws. I recall Osindile coming back and sharing a meal with Tyson and the other young males, after he'd already begun hanging with TYM, and even after he joined TYM in pushing the white male and other bros back towards the pride. During that same period, when Osindile was in and out, I recall Tyson already beginning to rough up the white male a little, but unlike Osindile, the white male wasn't injured and was able to leave before it got that bad.
Ross Males are like the Odd Couple, they are total opposites in their behavior and temperament, yet they remain inseparable, as much as the S Avocas, except the S Avocas were much more alike in their temperament and behavior. I don't recall which male it was, but just a couple of months ago Ross Males shared a buffalo kill with another adult male, and Fabio appeared at ease and completely fine with it, while Tyson started a scuffle or two during the encounter. A perfect example of what we are discussing.
03-11-2024, 12:43 AM( This post was last modified: 03-11-2024, 12:46 AM by afortich )
(03-10-2024, 04:52 AM)BA0701 Wrote: Take for instance their permitting BYM to remain with the pride for years beyond what most young males are allowed, even years beyond what they permitted with the Birmingham Breakaway males, and the group of Birmingham males that includes the white male.
Hey bud, I heard from someone who appears to know a lot that such a permission has to do more with the Birmingham Pride than with the dominant coalition.
I was told that these lionesses are the one allowing the subadults to stay until ready to have a great chance of survival while nomads.
(03-10-2024, 04:52 AM)BA0701 Wrote: Take for instance their permitting BYM to remain with the pride for years beyond what most young males are allowed, even years beyond what they permitted with the Birmingham Breakaway males, and the group of Birmingham males that includes the white male.
Hey bud, I heard from someone who appear to know a lot that such a permission has to do more with the Birmingham Pride than with the dominant coalition.
I was told that these lionesses are the one not allowing the subadults to stay until ready to have a great chance of survival while nomads.
Could be, but the one thing that we do know is that it is almost always the males who drive them out. Who made the decision that it was time? Your guess is as good as mine on that one.
03-11-2024, 12:58 AM( This post was last modified: 03-11-2024, 01:01 AM by afortich )
(03-11-2024, 12:46 AM)BA0701 Wrote:
(03-11-2024, 12:43 AM)afortich Wrote:
(03-10-2024, 04:52 AM)BA0701 Wrote: Take for instance their permitting BYM to remain with the pride for years beyond what most young males are allowed, even years beyond what they permitted with the Birmingham Breakaway males, and the group of Birmingham males that includes the white male.
Hey bud, I heard from someone who appear to know a lot that such a permission has to do more with the Birmingham Pride than with the dominant coalition.
I was told that these lionesses are the one not allowing the subadults to stay until ready to have a great chance of survival while nomads.
Could be, but the one thing that we do know is that it is almost always the males who drive them out. Who made the decision that it was time? Your guess is as good as mine on that one.
You're right, it is the lions who oust them.
But in trying to rephrase what the guy told me, I think he said that Birmingham pride don't help the coalition in ousting the subadults and also allow them to come back until they're 4 or a little over.
