There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
(09-11-2022, 03:21 AM)sik94 Wrote: Update on S8...
I have kept names of guides and the lodge out of the text as requested.
"Just listened to a message from the guide.
And this is what he says...
They found S8 and he had a bad wound to his leg (similar to Blondie) and bleeding at the mouth area which suggested to them a broken jaw, heavily salivating and roaring.
50m away Dark Mane and 2 Talamati subs were found also with some fresh wounds and scarring. They said based on tracks and marks it suggested that they were the ones that faught."
According to guides and rangers as well as the lodge...
Talamatis were on a buffalo kill and Kambulas arrived and also fed on buffalo with Dark Mane.
The Talamatis were found yesterday and 50m off was Kambula Subs.
1/2 Talamati Young Males does have an injury to his leg and the female's tail has started bleeding badly again.
S8 has not been seen since but there is an audio of a male lion and they are going to check again tomorrow."
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Sounds like it was likely DM and a Talamati male were indeed the ones who chased S8 awhile back. Surprising given DM's poor condition at that time. Not surprising that three beat one, no matter how big that one is. As far as mouth injuries go, Scar Mbiri has done very well with a nasty mouth injury and vids of him when it first happened showed he was salivating as described here, and as you mentioned Blondie's leg injury and he's doing well. Point being, these creatures are as resilient as any on the planet, and until we hear different I believe we can still hope for his recovery. Maybe we will get some pics of him, or perhaps they will find it does not appear as bad as it did initially, given a little time.
So sad for S8 but this was expected because S8 was always chasing them and looking a fight.
I always suspected that the lions chasing S8 were DM and the young boys.
I didn't expect the young boys to backup DM in this way. They still haven't gone nomadic and aren't really in a coalition with DM, they aren't even territorial and neither really is DM anymore. Young males still living with their natal don't do this, even when they have a massive numerical advantage. This is pretty amazing I'm not gonna lie.
Young males still living with their pride do that. I remember reports of young Mapogos backing the West Street Males multiple times, as well as going in patrols with the WSM despite not being territorial yet. In fact, they were the reason the WSM weren't ousted in their last years. Not only that but they would also chase other prides away when their natal pride was getting attacked, even after the death of the WSM.
(09-11-2022, 03:21 AM)sik94 Wrote: Update on S8...
I have kept names of guides and the lodge out of the text as requested.
"Just listened to a message from the guide.
And this is what he says...
They found S8 and he had a bad wound to his leg (similar to Blondie) and bleeding at the mouth area which suggested to them a broken jaw, heavily salivating and roaring.
50m away Dark Mane and 2 Talamati subs were found also with some fresh wounds and scarring. They said based on tracks and marks it suggested that they were the ones that faught."
According to guides and rangers as well as the lodge...
Talamatis were on a buffalo kill and Kambulas arrived and also fed on buffalo with Dark Mane.
The Talamatis were found yesterday and 50m off was Kambula Subs.
1/2 Talamati Young Males does have an injury to his leg and the female's tail has started bleeding badly again.
S8 has not been seen since but there is an audio of a male lion and they are going to check again tomorrow."
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Sounds like it was likely DM and a Talamati male were indeed the ones who chased S8 awhile back. Surprising given DM's poor condition at that time. Not surprising that three beat one, no matter how big that one is. As far as mouth injuries go, Scar Mbiri has done very well with a nasty mouth injury and vids of him when it first happened showed he was salivating as described here, and as you mentioned Blondie's leg injury and he's doing well. Point being, these creatures are as resilient as any on the planet, and until we hear different I believe we can still hope for his recovery. Maybe we will get some pics of him, or perhaps they will find it does not appear as bad as it did initially, given a little time.
So sad for S8 but this was expected because S8 was always chasing them and looking a fight.
I always suspected that the lions chasing S8 were DM and the young boys.
I didn't expect the young boys to backup DM in this way. They still haven't gone nomadic and aren't really in a coalition with DM, they aren't even territorial and neither really is DM anymore. Young males still living with their natal don't do this, even when they have a massive numerical advantage. This is pretty amazing I'm not gonna lie.
Young males still living with their pride do that. I remember reports of young Mapogos backing the West Street Males multiple times, as well as going in patrols with the WSM despite not being territorial yet. In fact, they were the reason the WSM weren't ousted in their last years. Not only that but they would also chase other prides away when their natal pride was getting attacked, even after the death of the WSM.
Can you find me one of these reports because it's news to me.
The following 1 user Likes sik94's post:1 user Likes sik94's post • afortich
09-14-2022, 04:52 AM( This post was last modified: 09-14-2022, 08:18 AM by afortich )
I don't know anything about whether the Talamatis' behavior is common or not.
However, I think I've read or seen in a video that Makhulu mapogo helped West-Street males chasing intruders. Also remember that some of the Mapogos, the older ones, were helping patrolling.
If find the video, I will post it here.
(09-14-2022, 04:52 AM)afortich Wrote: I don't know anything about whether the Talamatis' behavior is common or not.
However, I think I've read or seen in a video that Makhulu mapogo helped West-Street males chasing intruders. Also remember that some of the Mapogos, the older ones, were helping patrolling.
If find the video, I will post it here.
It's definitely a little unusual.
Makhulu definitely wasn't chasing intruders or patrolling for the aging WST male as a subadult. lol. He did help the pride hunt and stuff but wasn't acting as a dominant male or formed a coalition with the WST male. The most young males still in their natal pride will do is what Jr Matimba did against the Bboys or Nguvu when the Southern Avocas first showed up in the Western block. Maybe some defensive posturing or some growling, definitely no physical contact or chasing intruders cuz that would be crazy.
09-14-2022, 09:06 PM( This post was last modified: 09-15-2022, 10:48 PM by afortich )
(09-14-2022, 10:35 AM)sik94 Wrote:
(09-14-2022, 04:52 AM)afortich Wrote: I don't know anything about whether the Talamatis' behavior is common or not.
However, I think I've read or seen in a video that Makhulu mapogo helped West-Street males chasing intruders. Also remember that some of the Mapogos, the older ones, were helping patrolling.
If find the video, I will post it here.
It's definitely a little unusual.
Makhulu definitely wasn't chasing intruders or patrolling for the aging WST male as a subadult. lol. He did help the pride hunt and stuff but wasn't acting as a dominant male or formed a coalition with the WST male. The most young males still in their natal pride will do is what Jr Matimba did against the Bboys or Nguvu when the Southern Avocas first showed up in the Western block. Maybe some defensive posturing or some growling, definitely no physical contact or chasing intruders cuz that would be crazy.
@sik94, thank you for the clarification above my friend.
Now I have questions about what I thought I've read/seen of the Mapogos.
09-15-2022, 11:51 AM( This post was last modified: 09-15-2022, 12:12 PM by BA0701 )
(09-14-2022, 10:35 AM)sik94 Wrote: The most young males still in their natal pride will do is what Jr Matimba did against the Bboys or Nguvu when the Southern Avocas first showed up in the Western block. Maybe some defensive posturing or some growling, definitely no physical contact or chasing intruders cuz that would be crazy.
There was a video I've seen when the 5 Selati males were still with their natal pride and together with their moms and aunts made a pretty big statement to an adult male. The youngs boys even stayed back when the lionesses walked away from the now laying down, submitted male and showed the male who was boss. If I find the video ill link it here
Here's a newer video of the original with clippets of the video im referring to. Apparently the adult was Dominant Toulon.
(09-14-2022, 10:35 AM)sik94 Wrote: The most young males still in their natal pride will do is what Jr Matimba did against the Bboys or Nguvu when the Southern Avocas first showed up in the Western block. Maybe some defensive posturing or some growling, definitely no physical contact or chasing intruders cuz that would be crazy.
There was a video I've seen when the 5 Selati males were still with their natal pride and together with their moms and aunts made a pretty big statement to an adult male. The youngs boys even stayed back when the lionesses walked away from the now laying down, submitted male and showed the male who was boss. If I find the video ill link it here
Here's a newer video of the original with clippets of the video im referring to. Apparently the adult was Dominant Toulon.
09-16-2022, 05:00 AM( This post was last modified: 09-16-2022, 05:05 AM by sik94 )
(09-15-2022, 11:51 AM)BigLion39 Wrote:
(09-14-2022, 10:35 AM)sik94 Wrote: The most young males still in their natal pride will do is what Jr Matimba did against the Bboys or Nguvu when the Southern Avocas first showed up in the Western block. Maybe some defensive posturing or some growling, definitely no physical contact or chasing intruders cuz that would be crazy.
There was a video I've seen when the 5 Selati males were still with their natal pride and together with their moms and aunts made a pretty big statement to an adult male. The youngs boys even stayed back when the lionesses walked away from the now laying down, submitted male and showed the male who was boss. If I find the video ill link it here
Here's a newer video of the original with clippets of the video im referring to. Apparently the adult was Dominant Toulon.
I have seen that video before and It wasn't anything to do with the Selaties or the Toulon males. There are atleast 7 young males, probably 8 in that video. Selaties weren't 8 at any point so this video is just plain wrong and they aren't Selaties. The whisker pattern of the male doesn't match dominant Toulon either.
(09-16-2022, 05:00 AM)sik94 Wrote: I have seen that video before and It wasn't anything to do with the Selaties or the Toulon males. There are atleast 7 young males, probably 8 in that video. Selaties weren't 8 at any point so this video is just plain wrong and they aren't Selaties. The whisker pattern of the male doesn't match dominant Toulon either.
I couldn't find the original video. I always thought there were 5 males in this video and I thought they were young Selatis but I guess not. I guess it doesn't matter tho cause they did tell off that big adult male.
