There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
That could turn out brutal. Whatever happens, it is crucial Sassy stays safe, otherwise succesful takevover could easily mean end of Othawa pride. Althothough there is still Gingerella, but she seem to be bonding with Ximhungwe more and more and even if Othawas would welome her back after losing current cubs, she might not find out having no incentive to go back there towards currently hostile natal pride. And Ximhungwe will keep her distance anyway.
This might also take a while, it is still 2 vs 2 (afaik) and 3 females defending cubs on top of that and this would be first time Plain Camps would be doing something like that. The thing, they are likely done with their 2 Nkuhuma breakaways and looking for more is not good for current western sector residents though if they indeed turned their attention that way. Othawa cubs are still too far from making it. I already can envision some people on the internet salivating on the prospect of Mapogo-Mantimahle mix of genes if they sire a litter with the old fertile Othawa female (a litter that could very likely had to be brought up to adulthood by Sassy, which would make it even more compelling story in the eyes of some).
However, if this will go beyond border pressure, with so many nomadic males around, Nhenha and Nkuhuma fairly close, this might take unexpected turns, either as far as Othawas are concerned or what could happen with surviving dethroned Tumbelas. Perhaps even Dark Mane might get an unexpectd body.
It would interesting how much PCs would neglect Nkuhuma Breakaways, those females might lay low to avoid unwelcome encounter with some of the sub.adults wandering around or worse, adult males realizing Plain Camps are not there.
I feel bad for Tumbelas they are certainly underdogs in this. However I disagree, Plain Camps would provide stability (assuming they would complete the takeover rather unscathed, not sustaining a crippling injury or losing numbers), they might be seen as bit of bullies (due to Tsalala death), but I don't see why they would be a danger forf lions that no longer oppose them. It is just what would be left to take over. The remnants of Othawa pride would have stability but would have to be the clock for the pride to have any future (and they might possibly split to avoid PCs as long as there are any cubs left). Ximhungwe-Othawa Breakaway duo might actually have more potential (3 Othawa females are still bigger prize I guess, males don't know about the infertility and won't calculate with age of the lionesses like we do).
Start of 2021 was rather peaceful in comparison, wasn't it? Now it is chaos everywhere.
(04-18-2022, 06:56 AM)I agree. Although, Limper is a total liability for the Othawa pride. I think twice he has jumped off a tree and hurt himself badly. If the PC males find him alone they will for sure take him out. He cannot even run to save himself. Lot of instability all of a sudden that does not bode well for the cubs. The PC males definitely look impressive. I\m actually surprised the Manghenis thwarted and rejected them. Interesting times in the Western sector for sure! RookiePundit Wrote: That could turn out brutal. Whatever happens, it is crucial Sassy stays safe, otherwise succesful takevover could easily mean end of Othawa pride. Althothough there is still Gingerella, but she seem to be bonding with Ximhungwe more and more and even if Othawas would welome her back after losing current cubs, she might not find out having no incentive to go back there towards currently hostile natal pride. And Ximhungwe will keep her distance anyway.
This might also take a while, it is still 2 vs 2 (afaik) and 3 females defending cubs on top of that and this would be first time Plain Camps would be doing something like that. The thing, they are likely done with their 2 Nkuhuma breakaways and looking for more is not good for current western sector residents though if they indeed turned their attention that way. Othawa cubs are still too far from making it. I already can envision some people on the internet salivating on the prospect of Mapogo-Mantimahle mix of genes if they sire a litter with the old fertile Othawa female (a litter that could very likely had to be brought up to adulthood by Sassy, which would make it even more compelling story in the eyes of some).
However, if this will go beyond border pressure, with so many nomadic males around, Nhenha and Nkuhuma fairly close, this might take unexpected turns, either as far as Othawas are concerned or what could happen with surviving dethroned Tumbelas. Perhaps even Dark Mane might get an unexpectd body.
It would interesting how much PCs would neglect Nkuhuma Breakaways, those females might lay low to avoid unwelcome encounter with some of the sub.adults wandering around or worse, adult males realizing Plain Camps are not there.
I feel bad for Tumbelas they are certainly underdogs in this. However I disagree, Plain Camps would provide stability (assuming they would complete the takeover rather unscathed, not sustaining a crippling injury or losing numbers), they might be seen as bit of bullies (due to Tsalala death), but I don't see why they would be a danger forf lions that no longer oppose them. It is just what would be left to take over. The remnants of Othawa pride would have stability but would have to be the clock for the pride to have any future (and they might possibly split to avoid PCs as long as there are any cubs left). Ximhungwe-Othawa Breakaway duo might actually have more potential (3 Othawa females are still bigger prize I guess, males don't know about the infertility and won't calculate with age of the lionesses like we do).
Start of 2021 was rather peaceful in comparison, wasn't it? Now it is chaos everywhere.
(04-18-2022, 06:56 AM)RookiePundit Wrote: It would interesting how much PCs would neglect Nkuhuma Breakaways, those females might lay low to avoid unwelcome encounter with some of the sub.adults wandering around or worse, adult males realizing Plain Camps are not there.
Even if PC males would overtake Tumbelas territory, it still wouldn't be so big territory that PC males would have to neglect some part of it. I do not see any real threats to that pride now.
The following 1 user Likes Potato's post:1 user Likes Potato's post • Tr1x24
So far we have only seen one skirmish. It may have just been a border conflict or some other coincidental meeting between the two groups. And we shouldn't underestimate the Tumbellas either. If Limper is in shape it would still be 2 versus 2 and ultimately not the the odds the PCmales are looking for. Even if he isnt, they may still choose to go after the Mhangeni pride afteral. Which has no territorial males at all and has already shown to be open to mating with them.
Sans cubs, the Othawa pride would be the jackpot though. Three experienced lionesses able to bring home food, a well defined territory with only one real border and best of all. One of the lionesses is infertile, providing far more mating opportunities.
Sadly this also means they would spend more time with the Othawas which may pose some risks of neglect to the Nkuhuma breakaways.
04-18-2022, 02:39 PM( This post was last modified: 04-18-2022, 02:42 PM by Tr1x24 )
(04-18-2022, 02:24 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: So far we have only seen one skirmish. It may have just been a border conflict or some other coincidental meeting between the two groups. And we shouldn't underestimate the Tumbellas either. If Limper is in shape it would still be 2 versus 2 and ultimately not the the odds the PCmales are looking for. Even if he isnt, they may still choose to go after the Mhangeni pride afteral. Which has no territorial males at all and has already shown to be open to mating with them.
They are deep in Tumbelas territory said by rangers, roaring and chasing dominant male, thats not a border conflict.
Limper is not healthy, its far more likely he will just flee then try to fight, injured and unhealthy lions lack confidence and will avoid any serious fights, because he knows he is too weak to fight and will prob get killed.
Limper's condition was prob the reason PC males decided on this move, lack of his presence on roars, patrol and scent markings was prob noticable.
There was reported roar battle few nights ago, if Limper didnt participate, that was a go signal for PC males.
Sabi sands has really changed after long periods of stability, stability i just thought was normal since i took a interest in learning about lions, how wrong was i! I always got a sense these pc males were menacing and aggressive, they certainly are looking to be that. Very interesting times ahead
(04-18-2022, 02:48 PM)Hairy tummy Wrote: Sabi sands has really changed after long periods of stability, stability i just thought was normal since i took a interest in learning about lions, how wrong was i! I always got a sense these pc males were menacing and aggressive, they certainly are looking to be that. Very interesting times ahead
Very interesting times ahead indeed. If the Tumbela males play it smart like their fathers did against the Avoca/Giraffe males when consolidating their territory in Manyeleti, then they will likely remain dominant over the Othawa pride. That said, their odds are far from favourable at this point.
I just hope that Limper's condition has improved enough so he can at least have a hope of helping Skorro Jnr if the PC males confront them or being able to run if caught by himself.
Was it specifically said it was dominant tumbela (aka Skorro Jr.)? I mean we all kind of expect it to be him, but so far I think I've read only "tumbela male" which could theoretically be either of the two. Technically Limper is a dominant male from Tumbela coalition too.
Either way it is a problem. Plain Camps somewhat remind me Southern Avocas in the sense they seem to always stick together so yeah, it is in theory 2 vs 2 but there is a possibility Plain Camps finding out 2 vs 1 in their favour and even if Limper would wholeheartedly take part in the fighting they are still rather favourites - if they managed to find a confidence to do this and stick together only their inexperience in such fights goes against them (and they took part in killing a lion before at least). Tumbelas are not much more experience though, at least on the winning side of it, we don't know what they experience in Kruger.
I find it hard to root for them but Plain Camps ruling over Northwestern Sabi Sands and Ndhzengas in the centre should be good for lion ppopulation of Sabi Sands - genetic diversity and stability wise. The 3 new males finding their place would not be bad either (ideally if they can magically exchange places wth Tintswalos in Manyeleti without any bloodshed that would be great gentic diversity wise, but currently virtually impossible). Plain Camps also have potential for great healthy physical appearance due to who sired them, they seem to be missing just darker shades of manes now and that should come with time, hopefully there is nothing wrong with them they could pass on.
(04-18-2022, 02:24 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: So far we have only seen one skirmish. It may have just been a border conflict or some other coincidental meeting between the two groups. And we shouldn't underestimate the Tumbellas either. If Limper is in shape it would still be 2 versus 2 and ultimately not the the odds the PCmales are looking for. Even if he isnt, they may still choose to go after the Mhangeni pride afteral. Which has no territorial males at all and has already shown to be open to mating with them.
They are deep in Tumbelas territory said by rangers, roaring and chasing dominant male, thats not a border conflict.
Limper is not healthy, its far more likely he will just flee then try to fight, injured and unhealthy lions lack confidence and will avoid any serious fights, because he knows he is too weak to fight and will prob get killed.
Limper's condition was prob the reason PC males decided on this move, lack of his presence on roars, patrol and scent markings was prob noticable.
There was reported roar battle few nights ago, if Limper didnt participate, that was a go signal for PC males.
Hope we get new update today.
They were chasing him though. Its not like there are hard borders between territories the PC males have to stop at. So such chases last until they lose track of Skorro or no longer feel safe enough to continue in the others territory.
We have no footage or anything of the start of the conflict.
I think we are also underestimating Limper. He is afteral also seen climbing trees. Which is not something a lion which already has leg problems would consider.
(04-18-2022, 02:48 PM)Hairy tummy Wrote: Sabi sands has really changed after long periods of stability, stability i just thought was normal since i took a interest in learning about lions, how wrong was i! I always got a sense these pc males were menacing and aggressive, they certainly are looking to be that. Very interesting times ahead
Last year we were in the middle of the Avoca BBoy war and just a month away from the death of Othawa young male. While discussing wheter or not it was time to declare the Matimba coalition extinct. The Othawas were also giving birth of the first cubs after their takeover by the Tumbellas just a few months earlier.
Does anyone have any credible sources that can confirm that a Talamati Sub Female was found dead?
Im looking for credible corroboration not trying to spread rumors.
Did I miss this being reported earlier? I just came about the information last night that a lioness was found dead in Singita, then some mentioned that the Talamatis had one female down?
(04-18-2022, 07:22 PM)criollo2mil Wrote: Does anyone have any credible sources that can confirm that a Talamati Sub Female was found dead?
Im looking for credible corroboration not trying to spread rumors.
Did I miss this being reported earlier? I just came about the information last night that a lioness was found dead in Singita, then some mentioned that the Talamatis had one female down?
Recent or before?
Subadult female was found dead last year in Singita near Plains Camp males, its believed to be Nkuhuma subadult female, which might be the case as looks like only 2 out of 3 Nkuhuma subadult females are seen.
(04-18-2022, 07:22 PM)criollo2mil Wrote: Does anyone have any credible sources that can confirm that a Talamati Sub Female was found dead?
Im looking for credible corroboration not trying to spread rumors.
Did I miss this being reported earlier? I just came about the information last night that a lioness was found dead in Singita, then some mentioned that the Talamatis had one female down?
The story goes that one of the regular WildEarth viewers visited Arathusa I think in July 2021. There they were told by Roy Mkansi that two of the Talamati sub females were killed in Buffelshoek sometime around March-April 2021 but he didn't elaborate further. Upon counting it seemed the Talamatis were indeed down 1 sub-adult female. No clue what caused her death.
04-18-2022, 07:40 PM( This post was last modified: 04-18-2022, 07:43 PM by criollo2mil )
This incident is NEW. a lioness carcass found in Singita is the information.
(04-18-2022, 07:34 PM)Tonpa Wrote: The story goes that one of the regular WildEarth viewers visited Arathusa I think in July 2021. There they were told by Roy Mkansi that two of the Talamati sub females were killed in Buffelshoek sometime around March-April 2021 but he didn't elaborate further. Upon counting it seemed the Talamatis were indeed down 1 sub-adult female. No clue what caused her death.
This would make a SECOND female sub adult. The body found in Singita.
