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Lions of Sabi Sands

DE_66 Offline
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( This post was last modified: 12-09-2021, 02:20 AM by DE_66 Edit Reason: clarification )

(11-26-2021, 12:50 AM)sundarbans Wrote: Has there been any updates about the Tsalalas? Is it confirmed that the PC males were the ones that killed the Tsalala Princess and what would be the reason for their doing so? And any news about the daughter?

I don't think there was ever any proof presented that it was the PC Males other than the fact that they were seen in the vicinity of the body.  Them being nearby means nothing, though.  Something had been eating the carcass. They could have followed the vultures or the sound of scavengers consuming the body.  

Or maybe it was them who killed her.  There's no proof, only speculation.  IMO it wasn't the the PC Males.  The Mbiri Pride killed a rival lioness last year, then Junior Matimba/Nkuhuma showed up and started eating her.  He was there, but wasn't responsible for her death.
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DE_66 Offline
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(11-28-2021, 08:34 PM)Timbavati Wrote: A great sighting of the fifth Mantimahle and one of the S36/Mantimahle young males in Northern Sabi Sands
Photo credits: Andrew Aveley

Whoa, the apple fell very close to the tree!  They both look magnificent!
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DE_66 Offline
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(11-29-2021, 02:57 AM)sik94 Wrote:
(11-29-2021, 02:25 AM)Mdz123 Wrote: When and why did he seperate from his brothers?

A bit how DM got separated from the N. Avocas, and at some point another coalition probably ended up pushing them apart, making it a permanent split.

The Southern Avocas pushed into his territory and he joined up with some of his sons/nephews instead of returning to his brothers.
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DE_66 Offline
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(11-29-2021, 08:47 AM)Timbavati Wrote:
(11-29-2021, 08:41 AM)DE_66 Wrote:
(11-21-2021, 07:58 PM)criollo2mil Wrote:
(11-21-2021, 03:46 PM)Slayerd Wrote: The problem for the Tsalala young female isn't her ability to survive on her own like the Sparta cub. Obviously the wild is unpredictable so all things are a danger but her skills should be good enough. She is 2 years and 10 months,nearly 3 years old. Certain lioness fall pregnant earlier like Sassy who had her first cubs at 3 years. The biggest problem is the other lions around her. She has no safety net. To the west is the Mangheni and Othawa, to the east is the Nkuhuma, to the south is the kambula breakaway and south east is the Kambula pride. She is also surrounded by males and can't use mating as a means to save herself. The only males she is safe with is her father but Nhenha is near the Kambula famales. She has to try and stay low and not bring attention to herself

To clarify for the records:  Tsalala Young Female  was born March 2019, making her 2.8 years old.  Also, Sassy mated at 3.4 years old and had her cubs when she was 3.8 years old. so this makes her almost a full year short of being within mating/estrus age.   Long, difficult path ahead
Can someone confirm?  I'm pretty sure Sassy was born in late 2015 (I thought December, but I could be wrong).  I remember her first litter of cubs appearing towards the end of 2018.
I also thought the Tsalala Princess was born in late 2018, but my memory is a lot more fuzzy with regards to her.

Sassy was born between January to February 2015. 


Othawa Pride pride status May 2015
Total = 6
3 females (born 2007 daughters of the Mapogos)
3 cubs born approx mid - late January 2015 to lioness #2
2 males & one female
The cubs fathered by Majingilanes
First viewing on drive March 17

Thank you for the correction.  I must have mixed up her birth with some other lions I was following.
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DE_66 Offline
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(11-11-2021, 11:13 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(11-11-2021, 10:55 PM)Gijima Wrote: @lionuk Thank you, at least someone saw him in person.

This most recent Londolozi story is insane. Even though I know the outcome I didn't realize how much of a stand the Avocas made. According to the rangers "one Avoca male is marching straight to where the four N'Was are vocalizing" (I'm paraphrasing) They only retreated at the last minute and then spend one full day roaring in Mala Mala knowing full well they are being pursued.

I can't even wrap my head around how they evaded being caught. One wrong move or even loss of focus those two days and they would have had four hungry lion on top of them (all for N'Ws including Gore looked great, and very aggressive). 

The Avocas better not pull a stunt like that ever again, although I must say I admire them for trying.

They tried, but yea, 4 vs 2 is impossible to defeat. 

Im glad we had witness it (it might not be over yet) and nobody got killed, its so rare we have big porportions events like this. 

Does anyone has some recent info about N'ws?? Nothing on them since they where seen mating with that infertile Kambula, which was 2 days ago.


N'was COULD end up like the Vurhamis IF they're not careful.
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Timbavati Offline
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(11-29-2021, 08:53 AM)DE_66 Wrote:
(11-28-2021, 08:34 PM)Timbavati Wrote: A great sighting of the fifth Mantimahle and one of the S36/Mantimahle young males in Northern Sabi Sands
Photo credits: Andrew Aveley

Whoa, the apple fell very close to the tree!  They both look magnificent!

I couldn't be more agree.
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Timbavati Offline
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(11-29-2021, 09:02 AM)DE_66 Wrote:
(11-29-2021, 08:47 AM)Timbavati Wrote:
(11-29-2021, 08:41 AM)DE_66 Wrote:
(11-21-2021, 07:58 PM)criollo2mil Wrote:
(11-21-2021, 03:46 PM)Slayerd Wrote: The problem for the Tsalala young female isn't her ability to survive on her own like the Sparta cub. Obviously the wild is unpredictable so all things are a danger but her skills should be good enough. She is 2 years and 10 months,nearly 3 years old. Certain lioness fall pregnant earlier like Sassy who had her first cubs at 3 years. The biggest problem is the other lions around her. She has no safety net. To the west is the Mangheni and Othawa, to the east is the Nkuhuma, to the south is the kambula breakaway and south east is the Kambula pride. She is also surrounded by males and can't use mating as a means to save herself. The only males she is safe with is her father but Nhenha is near the Kambula famales. She has to try and stay low and not bring attention to herself

To clarify for the records:  Tsalala Young Female  was born March 2019, making her 2.8 years old.  Also, Sassy mated at 3.4 years old and had her cubs when she was 3.8 years old. so this makes her almost a full year short of being within mating/estrus age.   Long, difficult path ahead
Can someone confirm?  I'm pretty sure Sassy was born in late 2015 (I thought December, but I could be wrong).  I remember her first litter of cubs appearing towards the end of 2018.
I also thought the Tsalala Princess was born in late 2018, but my memory is a lot more fuzzy with regards to her.

Sassy was born between January to February 2015. 


Othawa Pride pride status May 2015
Total = 6
3 females (born 2007 daughters of the Mapogos)
3 cubs born approx mid - late January 2015 to lioness #2
2 males & one female
The cubs fathered by Majingilanes
First viewing on drive March 17

Thank you for the correction.  I must have mixed up her birth with some other lions I was following.
Always a pleasure, don't worry
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WildRev Offline
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(11-29-2021, 09:06 AM)DE_66 Wrote:
(11-11-2021, 11:13 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(11-11-2021, 10:55 PM)Gijima Wrote: @lionuk Thank you, at least someone saw him in person.

This most recent Londolozi story is insane. Even though I know the outcome I didn't realize how much of a stand the Avocas made. According to the rangers "one Avoca male is marching straight to where the four N'Was are vocalizing" (I'm paraphrasing) They only retreated at the last minute and then spend one full day roaring in Mala Mala knowing full well they are being pursued.

I can't even wrap my head around how they evaded being caught. One wrong move or even loss of focus those two days and they would have had four hungry lion on top of them (all for N'Ws including Gore looked great, and very aggressive). 

The Avocas better not pull a stunt like that ever again, although I must say I admire them for trying.

They tried, but yea, 4 vs 2 is impossible to defeat. 

Im glad we had witness it (it might not be over yet) and nobody got killed, its so rare we have big porportions events like this. 

Does anyone has some recent info about N'ws?? Nothing on them since they where seen mating with that infertile Kambula, which was 2 days ago.


N'was COULD end up like the Vurhamis IF they're not careful.
Any coalition can end up as the Vurhamis if they're not careful. 
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Netherlands Duco Ndona Offline
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Pretty much this. 

Having good "blood" or big numbers in your coalition mean nothing if you are a slow learner of the laws of nature.
Plenty of lions are build up to be big new king of the reserve. only to disappear without a trace in their first years. 
Just think of Nguvu, Nym and Syms coalition or the Othawa youngsters.
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Canada Mdz123 Offline
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(11-29-2021, 04:08 PM)WildRev Wrote:
(11-29-2021, 09:06 AM)DE_66 Wrote:
(11-11-2021, 11:13 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(11-11-2021, 10:55 PM)Gijima Wrote: @lionuk Thank you, at least someone saw him in person.

This most recent Londolozi story is insane. Even though I know the outcome I didn't realize how much of a stand the Avocas made. According to the rangers "one Avoca male is marching straight to where the four N'Was are vocalizing" (I'm paraphrasing) They only retreated at the last minute and then spend one full day roaring in Mala Mala knowing full well they are being pursued.

I can't even wrap my head around how they evaded being caught. One wrong move or even loss of focus those two days and they would have had four hungry lion on top of them (all for N'Ws including Gore looked great, and very aggressive). 

The Avocas better not pull a stunt like that ever again, although I must say I admire them for trying.

They tried, but yea, 4 vs 2 is impossible to defeat. 

Im glad we had witness it (it might not be over yet) and nobody got killed, its so rare we have big porportions events like this. 

Does anyone has some recent info about N'ws?? Nothing on them since they where seen mating with that infertile Kambula, which was 2 days ago.


N'was COULD end up like the Vurhamis IF they're not careful.
Any coalition can end up as the Vurhamis if they're not careful. 

This is why the Majingilanes were so succesful for so long. Be careful and have a strong bond. The 5th male wasnt careful and got killed by Mapogos, which shows what you are saying.
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RookiePundit Offline
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As for PC males being responsible for Tsalala's death, the carcass has what seems like a lion bite wounds on top of her neck. It could happen any random way I guess but male lion suffocating her, being above or on top of her seems very likely. There might not even be an apparent reason, there was a fatality in a group of zoo lions done in similar way, all of a sudden, simply an excess. Tsalala also could have try to get her daughter more time to escape, she might not be as quick due her pregnancy and not receptive to any mating attempts. PC males already killed a female sub-adult quite recently (in contrast to Limper Tumbela who seemed to be no danger to the Ximhungwe cub/sub-adult). Unimaginable things and freak accidents happen, but PC males are very likely culprits or rather one of them with or without the other being involved (if it was a mating attempt gone wrong, likely without). Certainly they don't seem to turn out as gentle ones.
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United States BA0701 Offline
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(11-29-2021, 05:49 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Pretty much this. 

Having good "blood" or big numbers in your coalition mean nothing if you are a slow learner of the laws of nature.
Plenty of lions are build up to be big new king of the reserve. only to disappear without a trace in their first years. 
Just think of Nguvu, Nym and Syms coalition or the Othawa youngsters.

I do still hope we receive word on Junior one of these days.
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(11-29-2021, 08:52 AM)DE_66 Wrote:
(11-26-2021, 12:50 AM)sundarbans Wrote: Has there been any updates about the Tsalalas? Is it confirmed that the PC males were the ones that killed the Tsalala Princess and what would be the reason for their doing so? And any news about the daughter?

I don't think there was ever any proof presented that it was the PC Males other than the fact that they seen in the vicinity of the body.  Them being nearby means nothing, though.  Something had been eating the carcass. They could have followed the vultures or the sound of scavengers consuming the body.  

Or maybe it was them who killed her.  There's no proof, only speculation.  But it wasn't the the PC Males IMO.  The Mbiri Pride killed a rival lioness last year, then Junior Matimba/Nkuhuma showed up and started eating her.  He was there, but wasn't responsible for her death.

That was the second of the last two Koppies lionesses, and Junior fathered her cubs. There were seven cubs between the two females, then the final female was seen without the cubs a couple times not long after the incident you mentioned then disappeared. It is believed she moved into Kruger, unknown what happened to the cubs.
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Netherlands Duco Ndona Offline
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( This post was last modified: 11-30-2021, 03:31 AM by Duco Ndona )

He probably isnt death yet. But until his coalition fell apart, people were really building him up to be the new big kings of Kruger etc. 
Now we are glad if we get any hints he is alive. Which is a somewhat more reasonable outlook on young nomadic males to be honest.

Speaking of male Othawa cubs. Its now reported they are apparently down to just one male cub. (That is, one of the two apparently got misgendered, none killed).
Which is great news for the pride. 5 new lionesses is just what they need to breath new life in the current group of aging lionesses.
But that poor sole male cub is going to have a very rough life later on.

There is no real evidence, but If I were to put my money on it and assuming the blame lies with lions and not hyenas, illness or some hunting accident. Id put it on the PC males.
They were seen closeby and whereever they go, the Nkuhuma male or the Mhangeni probably stay clear of.
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( This post was last modified: 11-30-2021, 04:35 AM by WildRev )

Styx pride, with cubs trying to take down their moms

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