There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
(05-28-2022, 01:16 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Looks like Mohawk Avoca got into trouble with Torchwood pride.
At 6:08 you can see both males.
Also it puts in more understandable recent Mala Mala report on that pride "The most exciting sighting of members of this pride took place in the Split Rock Donga on the 23rd. Two adult females and two sub-adult males had an altercation with two KNP males. It is unclear what caused the fight, but it is likely that sub-adult males are becoming threatening and need to explore their independence"
05-28-2022, 01:23 AM( This post was last modified: 05-28-2022, 01:25 AM by Tr1x24 )
(05-28-2022, 01:20 AM)Potato Wrote: At 6:08 you can see both males.
Also it puts in more understandable recent Mala Mala report on that pride "The most exciting sighting of members of this pride took place in the Split Rock Donga on the 23rd. Two adult females and two sub-adult males had an altercation with two KNP males. It is unclear what caused the fight, but it is likely that sub-adult males are becoming threatening and need to explore their independence"
Yea, i remember that report that 2 KNP males had a fight with Torchwoods, we where all confused as theres only 1 KNP male left and why would he fight his pride, so we taught it might be 5th Mantimahle and son.
I guess thats this video, and 2 males where N. Avocas.
(05-28-2022, 01:16 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Looks like Mohawk Avoca got into trouble with Torchwood pride.
At 6:08 you can see both males.
Also it puts in more understandable recent Mala Mala report on that pride "The most exciting sighting of members of this pride took place in the Split Rock Donga on the 23rd. Two adult females and two sub-adult males had an altercation with two KNP males. It is unclear what caused the fight, but it is likely that sub-adult males are becoming threatening and need to explore their independence"
Mala Mala made comment on this:
"We’re actually all wrong
*This image is copyright of its original author
This video was taken by one of our training rangers and we made the mistake of assuming identity based on location - this took place along the Kruger boundary about 1km south of our northern boundary - look carefully at the limping lion as he runs across the road and watch how his front left foot lands… it faces north while the lion is running east - it’s ‘clubfoot’. These are 2 of the Ndhzenga males!"
For my eye those deffinitelly look to be Northern Avocas, but nonetheless, still it is intresting comment.
05-28-2022, 03:17 PM( This post was last modified: 05-28-2022, 03:19 PM by Slayerd )
(05-28-2022, 02:36 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(05-28-2022, 02:23 PM)Potato Wrote: For my eye those deffinitelly look to be Northern Avocas, but nonetheless, still it is intresting comment.
Definitely N. Avocas.
They are confused by Blondies front foot, so they think its Wide-Nose, but Blondie limps on that foot also.
Also, thats way of Ndhzengas territory, as thats northeast near Kruger boundary.
Yes the Ndhzenga males don't have control of all of the Bboys territory. They control South East of Londolozi and South West of Mala Mala. They don't control all of central Sabi Sands like Bboys did. In fact, their territory as it is unfolding with the two S1 males is smaller than what the Bboys (Nhenha and Tinyo) once controlled in 2019-2021. Mala Mala, Londolozi, Umkumbe, Sabi Sabi. The Bboys obviously slowly lost portions of this territory in 2021.
05-28-2022, 03:40 PM( This post was last modified: 05-28-2022, 03:47 PM by Tr1x24 )
(05-28-2022, 03:17 PM)Slayerd Wrote: Yes the Ndhzenga males don't have control of all of the Bboys territory. They control South East of Londolozi and South West of Mala Mala. They don't control all of central Sabi Sands like Bboys did. In fact, their territory as it is unfolding with the two S1 males is smaller than what the Bboys (Nhenha and Tinyo) once controlled in 2019-2021. Mala Mala, Londolozi, Umkumbe, Sabi Sabi. The Bboys obviously slowly lost portions of this territory in 2021.
Bboys also never fully controled northern Londolozi and MalaMala, N. Avocas came in that empty area in 2020.
Ndhzengas currently definitely control more land then Bboys did, they control all land that Tinyo and Nhenha controled thru 2020-21, plus they still have Sabi Sabi, which Bboys didnt had (occasionaly seen at northeastern border).
This is approx. Ndhzengas current territory :
*This image is copyright of its original author
But we see that they are seen less and less south, so in future they will definitely move further north into central Sabi Sands completley.
05-28-2022, 04:30 PM( This post was last modified: 05-28-2022, 04:32 PM by Slayerd )
(05-28-2022, 03:40 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(05-28-2022, 03:17 PM)Slayerd Wrote: Yes the Ndhzenga males don't have control of all of the Bboys territory. They control South East of Londolozi and South West of Mala Mala. They don't control all of central Sabi Sands like Bboys did. In fact, their territory as it is unfolding with the two S1 males is smaller than what the Bboys (Nhenha and Tinyo) once controlled in 2019-2021. Mala Mala, Londolozi, Umkumbe, Sabi Sabi. The Bboys obviously slowly lost portions of this territory in 2021.
Bboys also never fully controled northern Londolozi and MalaMala, N. Avocas came in that empty area in 2020.
Ndhzengas currently definitely control more land then Bboys did, they control all land that Tinyo and Nhenha controled thru 2020-21, plus they still have Sabi Sabi, which Bboys didnt had (occasionaly seen at northeastern border).
This is approx. Ndhzengas current territory :
*This image is copyright of its original author
But we see that they are seen less and less south, so in future they will definitely move further north into central Sabi Sands completley.
The Bboys in my opinion held more land from 2019-2021. The Bboys still held majority of Mala Mala and Londolozi. Lions would occasionally be seen in their territory but the Bboys would push back into those areas. Nhenha was seen patrolling till beyond Bush Camp Sabi Sabi in Aug 2020 and the Bboys pushed even further when chasing the Nwaswitshaka Males earlier that year. The Bboys were even seen in areas beyond what we would consider their territory on occasions such as in Kirkmans Kamp in 2019, Singita on multiple occasions, far east of Mala Mala on multiple occasions, Cheetah Plains 2020 and they would push boundaries when chasing lions. Like Nhenha in northern Londolozi chasing the two Avocas, Singita when he chased the two Nwalungu males, southern Sabi Sabi when chasing the Nwaswitshaka, southern Sabi Sabi when Nhenha chased the Plains Camp males and their sisters, Northern Mala Mala when they chased the Nkuhuma and Avocas(seen at Mlowathi Dam), Eastern border when chasing the Fourways pride and Kruger Males. This is their territory between 2019-2021 IMO. And the yellow circles is the areas they would push on occasion.
05-28-2022, 05:14 PM( This post was last modified: 05-28-2022, 05:32 PM by Tr1x24 )
(05-28-2022, 04:30 PM)Slayerd Wrote: The Bboys in my opinion held more land from 2019-2021. The Bboys still held majority of Mala Mala and Londolozi. Lions would occasionally be seen in their territory but the Bboys would push back into those areas. Nhenha was seen patrolling till beyond Bush Camp Sabi Sabi in Aug 2020 and the Bboys pushed even further when chasing the Nwaswitshaka Males earlier that year. The Bboys were even seen in areas beyond what we would consider their territory on occasions such as in Kirkmans Kamp in 2019, Singita on multiple occasions, far east of Mala Mala on multiple occasions, Cheetah Plains 2020 and they would push boundaries when chasing lions. Like Nhenha in northern Londolozi chasing the two Avocas, Singita when he chased the two Nwalungu males, southern Sabi Sabi when chasing the Nwaswitshaka, southern Sabi Sabi when Nhenha chased the Plains Camp males and their sisters, Northern Mala Mala when they chased the Nkuhuma and Avocas(seen at Mlowathi Dam), Eastern border when chasing the Fourways pride and Kruger Males. This is their territory between 2019-2021 IMO. And the yellow circles is the areas they would push on occasion.
Sightings you described, where they where seen, was mostly when they chased out intruders.
Lions when chasing intruders chase them far out of their territory and borders. Bboys where never considered territorial males at those places you mark with yellow, especially not in the Sabi Sabi (which was empty land before Ndhzengas establish themselves) or Southern MalaMala near Kirkmans Kamp (which is S. Avocas territory) or Singita (which was Othawa male territory).
Lions also roam occasionaly outside of their territory, i mean even Ndhzengas where seen at Singita in late 2020 if i remember correctly , they where also seen at S1 in Kruger in mid 2021, that doesnt mean they where territorial there.
Also, Bboys territory in 2018-2020 was bigger then in 2021.
Your map might work for 2018-2020, but not for 2021, as N'ws completley establish themselves south, Bboys where not seen deep at Sabi Sabi after Ndhzengas become territorial (which happened mid to late 2020) , N. Avocas also pushed all the way to MalaMala Main Camp and northern Londolozi to Sand River, and Othawa male took western Londolozi.
So in 2021,Bboys territory looked approx. like this :
*This image is copyright of its original author
Much smaller then in previous years, but yea, from 2018-2020, they had similar territory to what Ndhzengas have now, except that they had boundaries further north, while Ndhzengas have further south.
