Lions of Manyeleti

[BA0701]

(Yesterday, 02:29 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:

(Yesterday, 02:19 AM)BA0701 Wrote: Thank you, my friend, for clarifying! Wasn't he being referred to as the "Skorro Orpen Male" for some time, or was that the Skorro male in SS? If the SS male, I had thought for the longest time that all of the Skorro cubs to the Orpens were killed when Hercules and Sumatra took over the pride.

Skorro Orpen (born early 2018) who was/is in Sabi Sands is Orpen males son from Skorro pride.

1 Skorro female formed a breakaway when Hercules/Sumatra and later Mbiris came, with 2 sub males and couple of sub females.

Younger sub male dissapeared later, only 1 left.

This young male should be called Mbiri Orpen, so we dont confuse.

Thank you, very much, this was truly helpful, in clarifying my own confusion! Reply

[criollo2mil]

(12-01-2024, 10:46 PM)BA0701 Wrote:

(12-01-2024, 10:23 PM)Rui Ferreira Wrote:

(12-01-2024, 09:05 PM)BA0701 Wrote: Tintswalo giving us the background of the young Orpen Male. I did not know he could be the last of the Koppies pride, basically one of those cubs that last female took off with, after that big fight with the Mbiri Pride. I always thought he was one of the cubs from the Skorro Pride.

" Mandevu is growing up to be a beast" good to know...
I also tought Orpen Jr Mbiri was born in the Mbiri Pride 
I wonder how trustworthy is this video

He is a Tintswalo guide, does a lot of their virtual safaris, so he is certainly trustworthy, though I am not saying he is correct on this matter, as I simply do not know for sure, myself. Though, after he made that comment, it got me thinking. I am in no way saying this is a certainty, but the age, to me, would match those Koppies cubs, more than any from Skorro Pride. Charlie, @EverseenSA, one of our friends here, actually filmed the events following the first fight with the Mbiris, when all of the Koppies cubs finally returned out of the bush, to the pride, even Junior was there, it was an exhilarating video, my wife was in tears watching it (to this day, I have always felt that Charlie's videos were the best made videos of any I have seen, stunning cinematography). Then, later on, there was another fight between them, which left one Koppies lioness, and 5 cubs remaining, and there were images (possibly video as well), of that lone lioness taking those 5 cubs, and heading into Kruger. We never heard from them since.

As for his comment about Mandevu being a beast, I think he may have been mistaken in this instance, because he immediately said how the Orpen Male was becoming a real "unit" of a lion, right afterwards, saying he is even bigger than Mandevu. So, while I might be mistaken, I think he was referring to the Orpen Male with that comment.

Poor Matt.   He is a new very young guide.    I applaud him for trying to take notes and learn these histories but he got almost everything wrong in this video.  

His explanation of The Young Mbiri make son of Orpen sounded like he got mixed up with Skorro YM son of Orpen.   His details on the Nkuhuma Pride and Junior were also all over the place.  

I have messaged him privately and offered to help clarify many of his incorrect details but I dint want to press too hard.    If he takes me up in my offer, I will try and bring him up to date with what I know.    I’m not perfect but van get the general history right Reply

[BA0701]

(Yesterday, 06:01 AM)criollo2mil Wrote:

(12-01-2024, 10:46 PM)BA0701 Wrote:

(12-01-2024, 10:23 PM)Rui Ferreira Wrote:

(12-01-2024, 09:05 PM)BA0701 Wrote: Tintswalo giving us the background of the young Orpen Male. I did not know he could be the last of the Koppies pride, basically one of those cubs that last female took off with, after that big fight with the Mbiri Pride. I always thought he was one of the cubs from the Skorro Pride.

" Mandevu is growing up to be a beast" good to know...
I also tought Orpen Jr Mbiri was born in the Mbiri Pride 
I wonder how trustworthy is this video

He is a Tintswalo guide, does a lot of their virtual safaris, so he is certainly trustworthy, though I am not saying he is correct on this matter, as I simply do not know for sure, myself. Though, after he made that comment, it got me thinking. I am in no way saying this is a certainty, but the age, to me, would match those Koppies cubs, more than any from Skorro Pride. Charlie, @EverseenSA, one of our friends here, actually filmed the events following the first fight with the Mbiris, when all of the Koppies cubs finally returned out of the bush, to the pride, even Junior was there, it was an exhilarating video, my wife was in tears watching it (to this day, I have always felt that Charlie's videos were the best made videos of any I have seen, stunning cinematography). Then, later on, there was another fight between them, which left one Koppies lioness, and 5 cubs remaining, and there were images (possibly video as well), of that lone lioness taking those 5 cubs, and heading into Kruger. We never heard from them since.

As for his comment about Mandevu being a beast, I think he may have been mistaken in this instance, because he immediately said how the Orpen Male was becoming a real "unit" of a lion, right afterwards, saying he is even bigger than Mandevu. So, while I might be mistaken, I think he was referring to the Orpen Male with that comment.

Poor Matt.   He is a new very young guide.    I applaud him for trying to take notes and learn these histories but he got almost everything wrong in this video.  

His explanation of The Young Mbiri make son of Orpen sounded like he got mixed up with Skorro YM son of Orpen.   His details on the Nkuhuma Pride and Junior were also all over the place.  

I have messaged him privately and offered to help clarify many of his incorrect details but I dint want to press too hard.    If he takes me up in my offer, I will try and bring him up to date with what I know.    I’m not perfect but van get the general history right

You can sense his unease, just in his delivery. But, at least, as you mention, he is trying, and I really do appreciate that. He had his notes, and all, spent some serious time researching, but just as we had the same confusion here, given they both have been called by very similar names, I see how it could happen. I do hope he takes you up on your offer, as being the sincere offer to help that it is, and isn't embarrassed by it, because he clearly put a lot of effort in. Reply

[Mapokser]

Yeah, Mandevu is the older half-brother/cousin of the Orpen son.

Both sons of the Matimba daughters in the Mbiri pride. Tintswalos probably considered the Orpen cubs to be fellow pride members, seeing them with their mother/aunt, so they didn't kill them. Reply

[Mapokser]

By Vestment, the entire Mbiri pride together.

Orpen son and his younger half-brother:

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Tintswalo subadult son, I hope this guy is Ncile's son, cuz the cub and him are likely the only possible legacy left for Ncile, while Mandevu still can sire new cubs:

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Mandevu:

*This image is copyright of its original author

Orpen son with Mandevu in the background:

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Edit: it'd be a dream if the subadult ends up becoming mature enough to join his brother and father, this way they'd be 3 and in the future, when Mandevu ages, Orpen would still have someone close to him in age, to keep competing. Reply

[criollo2mil]

Red Road has a new generation of cubs. Mother is 1/3 Original Nharus, born in the 2010 litters and sisters of the Birminghams. She has to be around 14 years old but we’ve seen that Birmingham Lionesses have an above average life span,,,,White Dot herself is 18 and still looks strong.

Reply

[Rui Ferreira]

(1 hour ago)criollo2mil Wrote: Red Road has a new generation of cubs.   Mother is 1/3 Original Nharus, born in the 2010 litters and sisters of the Birminghams.   She has to be around 14 years old but we’ve seen that Birmingham Lionesses have an above average life span,,,,White Dot herself is 18 and still looks strong.

So these little puff balls are cousins of some 
Mangheni
Kambulas
Tsalala
Nkuhuma 
Styx
Torchwood 
Lionesses 

And 
Kambula
Torchwood 
Nkuhuma 
Males
I hope I havent miss any cousins from their mother's side ( not even counting the other Nharu lionesses and even Birmingham) Reply

[criollo2mil]

(1 hour ago)Rui Ferreira Wrote:

(1 hour ago)criollo2mil Wrote: Red Road has a new generation of cubs.   Mother is 1/3 Original Nharus, born in the 2010 litters and sisters of the Birminghams.   She has to be around 14 years old but we’ve seen that Birmingham Lionesses have an above average life span,,,,White Dot herself is 18 and still looks strong.

So these little puff balls are cousins of some 
Mangheni
Kambulas
Tsalala
Nkuhuma 
Styx
Torchwood 
Lionesses 

And 
Kambula
Torchwood 
Nkuhuma 
Males
I hope I havent miss any cousins from their mother's side ( not even counting the other Nharu lionesses and even Birmingham)

Add Tumbela (son of these females) and as such Othowas, also Mongawane Birmingham Male (brother to RRM), and as such his cubs in Skorro Pride

And so on and so on. Many many connections indeed. Reply

[Ttimemarti]

The Birmingham Pride has to be the greatest pride of all time I mean their genes are everywhere! And in almost every pride in manyleti timbavti and sabi sands + Kruger Reply