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Kambula/Ntsevu males
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 (11-16-2024, 01:32 AM)BA0701 Wrote: However, we see no such lack of confidence, on a singular level, from any of the K4s, and we have not been given many opportunities to see how they function as a unit, only brief glimpses and aftermaths. Alone, they each appear more than willing to scrap it out with anyone. But, their cohesiveness as a unit is what seems to be lacking, almost entirely. Exactly, as a unit of 4 they are just not it. Even in such large coalitions, we have males who are more bonded together or should i say "coalition in a coalition", who are always together and on same page, but Kambulas dont have even that. - K4 is trying to be territorial/pride male. - K3 looks like he only wants to mate, and not hold/fight for territory by this point. - K6 is like day/night, 1 day chasing RRM and Kruger male, another he is following K5 on his adventures. - K5 idk what he is doing, in his mind he is still 4 yrs old nomad i suppose. If K4 has only 1 of his brother on the same page, they would already be territorial since early 2024, i dont think PCMs would push them off, Ndhzengas showed what strong bond/teamplay can do vs bigger/stronger PCMs and Mantimahles.  (11-16-2024, 02:57 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:(11-16-2024, 01:32 AM)BA0701 Wrote: However, we see no such lack of confidence, on a singular level, from any of the K4s, and we have not been given many opportunities to see how they function as a unit, only brief glimpses and aftermaths. Alone, they each appear more than willing to scrap it out with anyone. But, their cohesiveness as a unit is what seems to be lacking, almost entirely. You nailed it, I think that is the perfect description of where each of them are at, and that very singularly focused mindset has gotten each of them badly injured at one point or another. As I have for months, I will continue to hope that they can finally gel, as a cohesive unit, if they can accomplish that one thing, the world will be their oyster. 
I think the problem is that as a group, they are having very few struggles and hardships.
There is always one of the guys that manages to bring down a kill. Most rival males flee the area they enter and the Nkuhumas offer easy mating. I don't think they realize how lucky they are and how much work is normally actually needed for male lions to be successful. So their confidence is trough the roof and don't bother putting any real effort into it. But that leaves them inexperienced. And that sometimes comes to literally bite them in the ass.  (11-16-2024, 04:05 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: I think the problem is that as a group, they are having very few struggles and hardships. Plenty of coalitions become dominant over prides without having to fight for them. The Ndzengas/N'Waswitshakas and the Southern and Styx prides. The Gijimas and the Southern, Styx and Msuthlu prides. The Tumbelas and the Othawas. The Tintswalos and the Mbiris. And that's just in the last few years, and in Sabi Sands/Manyeleti. But that didn't stop those coalitions from sticking around until the offspring was born, and then defending the territories. I don't think it's about them 'not putting any effort in', lions aren't lazy like humans are (or can be), but something is mentally blocking them from making the transition from nomads to territorial males.
Just watched the WildEarth stream with K4. I concur with the people that said he is lucky to be alive, and to not have been castrated. He probably put up enough of a fight that finishing him off, or not inflicting more damage, just wasn't worth it for the males (most likely the Mantimahle males) that attacked him. Steve was concerned about the tendon/muscle damage, which might be permanent.
As Steve said, "Where are his brothers?" I can't help but feel that if this is it for K4 (touch wood I really hope not), then I don't put much stock in the Kambulas' chances. K4 is the most impressive, most dominant, their leader essentially. I really hope this beautiful boy gets his chance to be a territorial male and sire some offspring. Let's hope his youth allows him to make a good recovery. But you can already see how much weight he's lost considering how bulky he usually is. Fair play to him for surviving an attack by two such big, 'scary' males. Hopefully he's safe from another attack on Chitwa.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
Its not really about having bloodless takeovers. Its more about their lives in general.
Whatever time they spend traveling around their territory to scent mark is time they could spend hunting for food and looking for lionesses. So if you are not facing any challenges you are not going to spend much energy on stuff that prevents such challenges. The Kambullas, being a large group are counting on the idea that being in a large group is enough to scare other lions away. And have yet to learn that that simply isn't enough and leaves them vulnerable on their own.  (11-16-2024, 05:32 AM)NLAL11 Wrote: Just watched the WildEarth stream with K4. I concur with the people that said he is lucky to be alive, and to not have been castrated. He probably put up enough of a fight that finishing him off, or not inflicting more damage, just wasn't worth it for the males (most likely the Mantimahle males) that attacked him. Steve was concerned about the tendon/muscle damage, which might be permanent. True. Wide Nose had a far not so nasty looking injury to his rear leg but it got better of him eventually. His leg was twisted by his attackers, not so much mauled like here. Because of that, it seriously hindered WN’s movement. So can’t judge by the initial days looks. No serious predictions from here, only gut feeling.. K4 may be will survive this. (11-15-2024, 11:55 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: From what we saw so far, without K4, they prob dont stand a chance vs Sabi Sand duos, not with that "teamplay". I don’t think so. Even three of them survive for another 6 to 8 months, at some point next year, they should easily become dominant. Some here are getting carried away and becoming impatient. 3 to 4 healthy lions of 7 years of age, should easily become dominant, no matter what. 
If K4 stays safe I think he'll survive, but not sure about fully recovering, that limp looks dangerous, it might be permanent.
His father died of a similar injury, IIRC even in the same leg, and given by sons of the Mantimahle males... This is possibly the worst injury any of the 4 got so far and with K4 out of the game, at least for a while, I doubt the other 3 will establish themselves. Issue with lions that are late bloomers like the Kambula is exactly this, at some point you run out of luck and gets badly injured, if they had matured earlier, more in line with the average lion that, as 4 strong, become fully territorial around 5yo, they wouldn't be in this situation, still it's not like they are "to blame" for how they are/develop. I hope he makes a full recovery and becomes territorial with his brothers in the near future, though I always thought that if one of them dies, the other 3 wouldn't be able to be successful so losing K4, the most territorial of them, would be a huge blow to the coaltion. (11-16-2024, 08:20 AM)Mapokser Wrote: If K4 stays safe I think he'll survive, but not sure about fully recovering, that limp looks dangerous, it might be permanent. Not saying K4's injuries are not serious, as they clearly are, very serious in fact. But, the flesh on Nhenha's leg was literally shredded, as if it had been put through a meat grinder. 
3 Kambula males back in the north around Chitwa Chitwa , they were roaring
(K3, K5, K6) K3  *This image is copyright of its original author K6 K5  *This image is copyright of its original author K6  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author by Tony Raiburn
@Tr1x24 Kambulas are like their brother the NK male.
They are great hunters, good at getting buffalo, big, strong and apparently powerful fighters when backed against a corner, however, weak when having to initiate the fight/clash. Difference is that NK has the "excuse" of not having a brother or a long time coalition partner, while Kambulas are bonded to each other since their birth, 3/4 of them are even littermates. Still, southern ranger did say K6 was caught by 2 Gijimas when a clash happened between Gijimas and the 5 Kambula Breakaways, and that his siblings returned to possibly help him but were chased off again till they bumped onto PCM. We saw how after very likely being initially split by RR and Nhahru pride, K4 returned to help K5 when he thought K5 was winning the fight, but retreated when he realized RR was the one winning, then at some point K6 returned and chased RR off. Against the Kruger male more recently, it was a bit similar with K4 advancing first while K6 stayed back being more cautious, when K6 realized they had the advantage, he approached, Kruger male broke ranks and got chased. Back in the BDM days, it looks like similar stuff happened as initially it was reported BDM chased the Kambulas off the NK pride and had some minor injuries, but straight up the next day, Kambulas regrouped, were again with the Nkuhumas while BDM were on the run. Kambulas also chased 1/2 Mantimahle and territorial Kruger male 2v1 ( before the elephant clash ). So they obviously have the natural instincts of working together and helping their brothers in a clash, the issue is that their drive for dominance and confidence in a clash are low, so unless they feel they have an overwhelmingly advantage, they'd rather retreat than risk themselves to support a brother. If BDM weren't intimidated against 4 nomads, like the others duos weren't, I bet they'd still be dominant to this day, because I don't think Kambulas would push against a more willing duo. It's interesting, however, why they behave this way, their upbringing and environment was good, growing up in the strongest pride, leaving as nomads at the ideal age and in a big group, their slightly older brothers not showing any lack of confidence or good teamplay, and from a genetic point of view, all their ancestors we know worked well together with their siblings. Their mothers, fathers and grandparents were all more confident and stronger together at a lower age. So I can only think that they were unlucky with whatever genes determine likelihood of high confidence, trust on one another in a clash and drive for dominance. They underperforming in clashes shows the lack of confidence, and the roaming around abandoning territories plus tolerating many other males at the dinner table ( at a rate higher than we usually see with other males ) shows the lack of a strong drive for dominance. It also doesn't help that everybody expected they would be a bigger than average force due to their lineage made up of big famous coalitions that took big territories ganging up on other lions and so on. (11-16-2024, 09:39 PM)Mapokser Wrote: apparently powerful fighters when backed against a corneri still get confused when thinking about them getting cornered. Its either they get so submissive the males dont make an effort to kill or the opposite(?) But idk, look at 5th Majingilane, thats probably as fierce as a young male lion can do when outnumbered (of what we've seen so far). Doubt the Kambulas are much different than that, so its more of what the dominant males feel like doing. Both coalitions, Plains Camp and Gijima, seem to "spare" most of the lions they got a hold on, so its not like the Kambulas are fighting so fiercely they break free or whatever, can be more attributed to the males mauling them imo |
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