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Kambula/Ntsevu males
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 (10-05-2024, 03:59 AM)Ngonya Wrote:The Plain camp male lions are not really with the Nukhumas? I know it is three lionesses, but there is a pride they do not really see the Mahangenis. They have cubs with them but until recently they were with them after some time when they were spending more time with the Nukhumas. I think the Plain Camp male lions size and their bond and luck helped. They have not really been lions fighting other male lions they have chased the lone Tumbela male lion, but I think the Ndhzenga male lions are the strongest or the two male lions in the north with the Torchwood male lions with very nice dark manes and experience. The plain Camp male lions are impressive I just do not think they are better than the Ndhzenga male lions although they are a bit older than the Plain Camp male lions at 9 years of age. The Plain camps male lions have been seen with the Ximungwe lioness, the young Othowa lioness, the Tsalala. I am hoping that means they are going to spend more time in the West.(10-05-2024, 12:43 AM)Potato Wrote: Considering that they are clearly unable to keep other males at bay then they definitelly wouldn't be better than PC males. They would sire cubs in the pride just to them be killed by either Mantimahles or Plains Camp males.Exactly my thoughts on it too!  (10-05-2024, 04:48 AM)Go131810 Wrote: The Plain camp male lions are not really with the Nukhumas? I know it is three lionesses, but there is a pride they do not really see the Mahangenis.The Plains Camps aren't the dominants over Nkuhuma pride, tbf no one really is actually. Covering the territories they already control is pretty much a impressive job regardless. (10-05-2024, 04:48 AM)Go131810 Wrote: They have not really been lions fighting other male lions they have chased the lone Tumbela male lion, but I think the Ndhzenga male lions are the strongest [...] The plain Camp male lions are impressive I just do not think they are better than the Ndhzenga male lions although they are a bit older than the Plain Camp male lions at 9 years of age. The Plain camps male lions have been seen with the Ximungwe lioness, the young Othowa lioness, the Tsalala. I am hoping that means they are going to spend more time in the West.All that altercation of the Ndzhengas chasing the two Plains Camp out of Londolozi just gave people TOO MUCH confidence to underestimate the PCM. During a invasion, the defenders will likely have the upperhand. 2 Selatis chased 3 Majingilanes out of the west back in the day, and that didn't make the Selatis the strongest/"better" coalition during the dispute. A more recent example can be mentioned such as the Nkuhlus and Gijimas constantly chasing each other back and forth. In Nkuhlu territory, the young Nkuhlu males are the pursuers | in Gijima territory, the experienced Gijima males are the pursuers and that doesnt make one coalition better than the other, just the odds are different. But when its the Plains Camp males getting chased once (or whatever) by the Ndzhengas, people already start talking about it like a huge loss or whatever. A fun fact that has been mentioned more than once at different thread/topics here at Wildfact is that the Plains Camp dominated most of the persecution according to a guide, Ndzhengas only succeding to get rid of them after a couple of hours. And im not trying to underestimate Ndzhengas, but personally i would risk to say that i think the PCM are stronger than them and would have the advantage in a physical confrontation. (not only against Ndzhengas but against any other lions at Sabi Sands... Only ones i see as tie are their half brothers, the Mantimahle males, who i think are the males you refer as "Torchwood Males" edit: im not saying you are underestimating the PCM, thats just a commentary in general due to recent and previous experienced, not exactly on wildfact, of people talking down on Plains Camp males. Always mentioning the special persecution with Ndzhengas.  (10-05-2024, 05:16 AM)Ngonya Wrote:(10-05-2024, 04:48 AM)Go131810 Wrote: The Plain camp male lions are not really with the Nukhumas? I know it is three lionesses, but there is a pride they do not really see the Mahangenis.The Plains Camps aren't the dominants over Nkuhuma pride, tbf no one really is actually. I think people now underestimating or downplaying the PC males' 'strength' is just a reaction to them being overhyped before that encounter. A bit like the Ndzengas were regularly belittled as not really impressive (by people including Londolozi guides), now people are perhaps overhyping them a bit, especially in comparison to the PC males. In both cases the pendulum swung the other way. It's as you said, home territory advantage is a huge factor. If the Ndzengas had gone into PC territory, the reverse would have likely happened. But it has to be said that the PC males have had very few fights against full-grown males (Nhena, Tumbela and K5), the Ndzengas not many more (S Avocas, Delaporte, possibly Tinyo, S BDMs x2). So for me it's difficult to say if either of the two duos are stronger than the other. By the 'Torchwood males' they might have been referring to the young Torchwood males, sons of the Kruger/Torchwood males. But this is the Kambula/Ntsevu males thread, not the place for discussing PC vs Ndzenga. 
@Potato Well, at least they are around. I don't think Kambulas at the moment are good but PCM IMO would be worse.
As already mentioned, PCM has/had countless prides by now and is only doing a good job with Ximgungwes ( for now ). Besides, Kambulas are 4 strong, 3/4 over 6yo, the other one 5.5yo, at some point it's likely that they'll eventually be able to beat strong duos. @Ngonya All the other duos in Sabi Sands are as strong or even strong than PCM and and give the impression of ruling more stable and safe prides and territory so this isn't an excuse for their poor dynamics with the prides. Ndhzengas are doing a great job with Ntsevu and Kambula prides, and they beat the PCM so they're not weaker. Gijimas doing an amazing job with Msuthu and Southern Pride, and now possibly with Styx pride as well, they've chased 3 and 4 territorial Nkhulus, so by feats they are the strongest, PCM have only beat old Nhenha and NK as far as territorial males go. Mantimahles seems to have a big legacy already and they chased Kambulas anand BDM, so same thing PCM have done, they're likely not weaker. Nkhulus are 6-5 strong, clearly the strongest coalition by sheer numbers, they now have cubs with 2 different prides, let's see how they do. Btw, PCM territory is larger than that of Selatis, Majingilane and Western Mapogo, as it includes a good portion of the north. Although this is impressive in terms of expansion and strength, it's not good for the prides as they're unable to offer much protection, if any at all, hell they don't even protect the Manghenis who live in their core territory. 
I dont think strength is the issue with the PCmales but rather experience and skill.
There is something they are doing wrong. Perhaps they dont scent mark enough, dont try to smell or track males, avoid confrontation or dont aggressively chase long enough to completely send a rival off. But somehow rival males feel that aslong they arent seen, they can do as they please. Add to that that they have multiple predies to keep track off and a rather large area to cover, and their strength and numeral advantage stops mattering as much. The Kambulas atleast have the advantage of numbers and having only the Nkuhumas to protect. I think that if they were to settle down. There isnt much the other two coalitions will do anymore. Even right now they arent doing much there. Let alone with rivals to concider.
K6 with Nkuhuma female yesterday
 *This image is copyright of its original author by Ale
K6and K4 seem to be the most dominant bros when it comes to females
K3 at Buffelshoek back in July
 *This image is copyright of its original author by Mel Chiert
Kambula male K3 with a beaten / battle scarred face.
He was limping a bit last month and i wonder with who he got in a fight with... Perhaps one of his brothers? seems unlikely since his limp, as i said, was at one of his back legs it would need to be quite the aggression towards a coalition partner / brother to cause such thing. During last month, Kruger male was with a wound on his face at the same time and in a near area, where he briefly joined Southern Avoca.  *This image is copyright of its original author By Graeme Mitchley
Im assuming this is likely from a couple of weeks ago since Graeme Mitchley sometimes recycles his unposted pics.
K5 on giraffe carcass
 *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author by Heike
 *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author by Chloe Louise
Seems like later joined by Tiyelele, he is still with her  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
Kruger Kambula male K2 and his partner Pretoriuskop with a lioness
Pretoriuskop  *This image is copyright of its original author ´K2 pairing with a lioness  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author by Jean
same author also posted the 2 Nkuhuma young males at the buffalo kill so it seems like its pretty recent! (10-14-2024, 01:39 AM)Ngonya Wrote: Kruger Kambula male K2 and his partner Pretoriuskop with a lionessWhere is the other Kambula male lion? (10-14-2024, 03:49 AM)Go131810 Wrote: Where is the other Kambula male lion?Im not sure how could i answer such question since i didn't take the pictures and wasn't there. But based on my knowledge and vision towards K1, he appears to be a more cautious / shy male, usually avoiding vehicles or atleast just hanging on his own a bit away from roads. |
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