There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
(10-31-2020, 08:34 PM)Balam Wrote: @Pckts the JID told me that Juru had last been seen on September in the area, the fires could have driven him away, but with so many large males found within the same distance I doubt that he will be able to return to claim a sizeable territory.
I also agree with you that Edno was trying to be relatively delicate with the female as he probably wanted to mate, my guess is that if there would have been a larger and more threatening male (i.e. Balam), both of them would've had a more tenacious battle. Nonetheless, kudos to the female for standing up and eventually making Edno lose interest in pursuing her.
2-1 situation alone can be confusing and a bit intimidating for solitary cat used to fight only 1-1 what comes to own species. When neither of the siblings didn´t back off and flee, Edno had to be all the time careful with both. Lions are after all only big cats used to fight against multiple opponents and still only in rare cases some lions have made a move against more than one opponent simultaneously, when facing own species. This kind of situation can be speculated in many ways, but this isn´t something what jaguars are used to. It can be, that Edno was quite surprised when both jaguars held their ground when he approached and both aggressive towards him.
Edno was the only Cat being the aggressor, both the siblings were submissive the whole time.
Obviously Edno made the offensive move. Point is, that siblings didn´t back off, but held their ground. So Edno had to be aware and careful all the time, one mistake and he could have been attacked from two directions and injured. That is something what jaguars aren´t used to. In the end it was Edno leaving and siblings staying. That kind of situation could be very confusing to any jaguar so I don´t think that Edno was "soft", he just faced something surprising and didn´t know how to handle it.
(10-31-2020, 08:34 PM)Balam Wrote: @Pckts the JID told me that Juru had last been seen on September in the area, the fires could have driven him away, but with so many large males found within the same distance I doubt that he will be able to return to claim a sizeable territory.
I also agree with you that Edno was trying to be relatively delicate with the female as he probably wanted to mate, my guess is that if there would have been a larger and more threatening male (i.e. Balam), both of them would've had a more tenacious battle. Nonetheless, kudos to the female for standing up and eventually making Edno lose interest in pursuing her.
2-1 situation alone can be confusing and a bit intimidating for solitary cat used to fight only 1-1 what comes to own species. When neither of the siblings didn´t back off and flee, Edno had to be all the time careful with both. Lions are after all only big cats used to fight against multiple opponents and still only in rare cases some lions have made a move against more than one opponent simultaneously, when facing own species. This kind of situation can be speculated in many ways, but this isn´t something what jaguars are used to. It can be, that Edno was quite surprised when both jaguars held their ground when he approached and both aggressive towards him.
Edno was the only Cat being the aggressor, both the siblings were submissive the whole time.
Obviously Edno made the offensive move. Point is, that siblings didn´t back off, but held their ground. So Edno had to be aware and careful all the time, one mistake and he could have been attacked from two directions and injured. That is something what jaguars aren´t used to. In the end it was Edno leaving and siblings staying. That kind of situation could be very confusing to any jaguar so I don´t think that Edno was "soft", he just faced something surprising and didn´t know how to handle it.
I think you're making more out of it than there was.
Edno dictated the interaction every time, the siblings did nothing other than wait and submit. Also Edno isn't going anywhere, I will guarantee it the 2 youngsters that leave not far before he does.
11-01-2020, 02:28 AM( This post was last modified: 11-01-2020, 02:29 AM by Shadow )
(11-01-2020, 02:18 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(11-01-2020, 02:05 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(11-01-2020, 01:32 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(10-31-2020, 11:53 PM)Shadow Wrote:
(10-31-2020, 08:34 PM)Balam Wrote: @Pckts the JID told me that Juru had last been seen on September in the area, the fires could have driven him away, but with so many large males found within the same distance I doubt that he will be able to return to claim a sizeable territory.
I also agree with you that Edno was trying to be relatively delicate with the female as he probably wanted to mate, my guess is that if there would have been a larger and more threatening male (i.e. Balam), both of them would've had a more tenacious battle. Nonetheless, kudos to the female for standing up and eventually making Edno lose interest in pursuing her.
2-1 situation alone can be confusing and a bit intimidating for solitary cat used to fight only 1-1 what comes to own species. When neither of the siblings didn´t back off and flee, Edno had to be all the time careful with both. Lions are after all only big cats used to fight against multiple opponents and still only in rare cases some lions have made a move against more than one opponent simultaneously, when facing own species. This kind of situation can be speculated in many ways, but this isn´t something what jaguars are used to. It can be, that Edno was quite surprised when both jaguars held their ground when he approached and both aggressive towards him.
Edno was the only Cat being the aggressor, both the siblings were submissive the whole time.
Obviously Edno made the offensive move. Point is, that siblings didn´t back off, but held their ground. So Edno had to be aware and careful all the time, one mistake and he could have been attacked from two directions and injured. That is something what jaguars aren´t used to. In the end it was Edno leaving and siblings staying. That kind of situation could be very confusing to any jaguar so I don´t think that Edno was "soft", he just faced something surprising and didn´t know how to handle it.
I think you're making more out of it than there was.
Edno dictated the interaction every time, the siblings did nothing other than wait and submit. Also Edno isn't going anywhere, I will guarantee it the 2 youngsters that leave not far before he does.
Well, people who saw this said, that Edno left, not siblings. Guide told that Edno ran away and this person who took photos also said, that Edno left, not siblings. I think, that they know what they saw. But you are free to have your opinion of course, I don´t mind.
(10-31-2020, 06:26 PM)Balam Wrote: "This is the image of the beginning of the most insane behavior I have ever seen in my life. The pair of siblings, to whom it seems a coalition, won the war against another male much larger than themselves. The detail was that the female who fought the male all the time. I simply took the seven most spectacular images of my life. Any day I show them !!!!"
*This image is copyright of its original author
By Ernane Junior
Extremely interesting dynamic, for one here we have a coalition of siblings from the opposite sex, this may be the first time that such coalition is recorded in jaguars. Secondly, it was the female who looked to be twice as small as Edno the one doing most of the fighting, to the point that Edno desisted at the end. Clearly this was not a gruesome fight so who knows what the reason was for Edno to become so aggressive with them. Perhaps if he would've been more committed to exterminating them he would've succeeded. Regardless, this is a merit for this young female who may continue on to become an iconic jaguaress on the area.
MY THOUGHTS ON THAT DYNAMIC ENCOUNTER.
Edno was most likely trying to mate with the female with no harm intentions with her. But the young male's presence might've added a bit of pepper to that encounter.
The female jaguar over aggressiveness comes natural being courted when she's still accompanied by her sibling, her brother's presence and company also wouldn't make Edno's possible intentions that simple to occur so the siblings got defensive towards Edno specially the female who was Edno's possible target (to mate) so she got into a much more aggressive behavior mood to fend off Edno than her brother which also as an youngster could have been well aware they're up against a large prime male so getting into a serious long fight with probably such low experience themselves wouldn't be worth it so he backed down more than his harassed sister.
I wouldn't say Edno was going all out in that fight or got beat or anything like that, he most likely noticed newcomers stepping into his territory area and Edno could've either chased them away or he could've ''Esturrado'' ( long distance vocalization amongst jaguars) after picking up their scents to let them know by vocals he is that area's boss but instead he ''took a few advantages'' of that situation with no intentions to kill them (at least the female) but his intentions wasn't accomplished since by what the photographer says I see that the siblings were on the defensive mode and Edno ended up ''losing the war'' or losing interest on them eventually.
if it was a Jaguar like M.F. Flash male instead of the siblings Edno would've probably reacted and taken the situation more serious on a whole different dynamic occasion.
A video of that dynamic encounter would be way better to notice and to know their behaviors intents and how it all happened from the start to finish as a whole.
Jaguar Coalition.
There have been register by the Projeto Gadonça in Fazenda San Francisco in the Southern Section a coalition of 2 males thought to be brothers they shared the same kill and lived in the same territory area and both males were even seen mating with one female at same.
Also there have been registers of the jaguars ''truce'' that occurs even between males forming a coalition for a certain period of time spending time together calling out one another through the Esturros and even sharing carcasses, so again jaguars aren't as unsociable as once thought.
About this Coalition.
I think the siblings coalition who had conflict with Edno will soon split and take different paths as the female will be lasted after by the dominant males way more often in an already very competitive area as she matures she'll also start to esturrar to call out a male to mate, as she gets in heat her scent will spread out in the pantanal air like a perfume for the nearby males and dominant ones and the competition for her shall be tough so tough the female in heat could mate with more than one male.
So it will be a moment her brother wouldn't want to be close to her and shall soon split this coalition to take his own path in search for his own territory.
The Brothers Oreia and Grandão who grew up together and were seen often together in Fazenda San Francisco made a sudden appeareance chilling together back in 2013 after a long time of absence in Fazenda San Francisco - Pantanal
NOTE: Oreia is in front and Grandão is in the background.
@Dark Jaguar check the intraspecific conflicts thread, i posted two videos of the interaction. Overall I second everything you said.
The two siblings are only 15 months in age, probably just gained independence from their mother, Susanna female.
The dynamics involving the formation of coalitions by jaguars is extremely interesting and understudied. Jaguars remain, alongside snow leopards, the most understudied of the felids within the genus Panthera and interactions like this just keep showing how much we still have to know about them.
11-01-2020, 03:26 AM( This post was last modified: 11-01-2020, 03:33 AM by Pckts )
(11-01-2020, 02:28 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(11-01-2020, 02:18 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(11-01-2020, 02:05 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(11-01-2020, 01:32 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(10-31-2020, 11:53 PM)Shadow Wrote:
(10-31-2020, 08:34 PM)Balam Wrote: @Pckts the JID told me that Juru had last been seen on September in the area, the fires could have driven him away, but with so many large males found within the same distance I doubt that he will be able to return to claim a sizeable territory.
I also agree with you that Edno was trying to be relatively delicate with the female as he probably wanted to mate, my guess is that if there would have been a larger and more threatening male (i.e. Balam), both of them would've had a more tenacious battle. Nonetheless, kudos to the female for standing up and eventually making Edno lose interest in pursuing her.
2-1 situation alone can be confusing and a bit intimidating for solitary cat used to fight only 1-1 what comes to own species. When neither of the siblings didn´t back off and flee, Edno had to be all the time careful with both. Lions are after all only big cats used to fight against multiple opponents and still only in rare cases some lions have made a move against more than one opponent simultaneously, when facing own species. This kind of situation can be speculated in many ways, but this isn´t something what jaguars are used to. It can be, that Edno was quite surprised when both jaguars held their ground when he approached and both aggressive towards him.
Edno was the only Cat being the aggressor, both the siblings were submissive the whole time.
Obviously Edno made the offensive move. Point is, that siblings didn´t back off, but held their ground. So Edno had to be aware and careful all the time, one mistake and he could have been attacked from two directions and injured. That is something what jaguars aren´t used to. In the end it was Edno leaving and siblings staying. That kind of situation could be very confusing to any jaguar so I don´t think that Edno was "soft", he just faced something surprising and didn´t know how to handle it.
I think you're making more out of it than there was.
Edno dictated the interaction every time, the siblings did nothing other than wait and submit. Also Edno isn't going anywhere, I will guarantee it the 2 youngsters that leave not far before he does.
Well, people who saw this said, that Edno left, not siblings. Guide told that Edno ran away and this person who took photos also said, that Edno left, not siblings. I think, that they know what they saw. But you are free to have your opinion of course, I don´t mind.
Where are you reading that Edno ran away, let alone was being chased off?
They will leave the Meeting of the 3 rivers not Edno, you can almost guarantee it.
(10-31-2020, 06:26 PM)Balam Wrote: "This is the image of the beginning of the most insane behavior I have ever seen in my life. The pair of siblings, to whom it seems a coalition, won the war against another male much larger than themselves. The detail was that the female who fought the male all the time. I simply took the seven most spectacular images of my life. Any day I show them !!!!"
*This image is copyright of its original author
By Ernane Junior
Extremely interesting dynamic, for one here we have a coalition of siblings from the opposite sex, this may be the first time that such coalition is recorded in jaguars. Secondly, it was the female who looked to be twice as small as Edno the one doing most of the fighting, to the point that Edno desisted at the end. Clearly this was not a gruesome fight so who knows what the reason was for Edno to become so aggressive with them. Perhaps if he would've been more committed to exterminating them he would've succeeded. Regardless, this is a merit for this young female who may continue on to become an iconic jaguaress on the area.
MY THOUGHTS ON THAT DYNAMIC ENCOUNTER.
Edno was most likely trying to mate with the female with no harm intentions with her. But the young male's presence might've added a bit of pepper to that encounter.
The female jaguar over aggressiveness comes natural being courted when she's still accompanied by her sibling, her brother's presence and company also wouldn't make Edno's possible intentions that simple to occur so the siblings got defensive towards Edno specially the female who was Edno's possible target (to mate) so she got into a much more aggressive behavior mood to fend off Edno than her brother which also as an youngster could have been well aware they're up against a large prime male so getting into a serious long fight with probably such low experience themselves wouldn't be worth it so he backed down more than his harassed sister.
I wouldn't say Edno was going all out in that fight or got beat or anything like that, he most likely noticed newcomers stepping into his territory area and Edno could've either chased them away or he could've ''Esturrado'' ( long distance vocalization amongst jaguars) after picking up their scents to let them know by vocals he is that area's boss but instead he ''took a few advantages'' of that situation with no intentions to kill them (at least the female) but his intentions wasn't accomplished since by what the photographer says I see that the siblings were on the defensive mode and Edno ended up ''losing the war'' or losing interest on them eventually.
if it was a Jaguar like M.F. Flash male instead of the siblings Edno would've probably reacted and taken the situation more serious on a whole different dynamic occasion.
A video of that dynamic encounter would be way better to notice and to know their behaviors intents and how it all happened from the start to finish as a whole.
Jaguar Coalition.
There have been register by the Projeto Gadonça in Fazenda San Francisco in the Southern Section a coalition of 2 males thought to be brothers they shared the same kill and lived in the same territory area and both males were even seen mating with one female at same.
Also there have been registers of the jaguars ''truce'' that occurs even between males forming a coalition for a certain period of time spending time together calling out one another through the Esturros and even sharing carcasses, so again jaguars aren't as unsociable as once thought.
About this Coalition.
I think the siblings coalition who had conflict with Edno will soon split and take different paths as the female will be lasted after by the dominant males way more often in an already very competitive area as she matures she'll also start to esturrar to call out a male to mate, as she gets in heat her scent will spread out in the pantanal air like a perfume for the nearby males and dominant ones and the competition for her shall be tough so tough the female in heat could mate with more than one male.
So it will be a moment her brother wouldn't want to be close to her and shall soon split this coalition to take his own path in search for his own territory.
The Brothers Oreia and Grandão who grew up together and were seen often together in Fazenda San Francisco made a sudden appeareance chilling together back in 2013 after a long time of absence in Fazenda San Francisco - Pantanal
NOTE: Oreia is in front and Grandão is in the background.
These are always interesting situations when something what usually isn´t seen is there. This kind of situation what happened now is rare and all what people can do is guessing. These are wild animals, which aren´t known to be able to think like us. They can be at some situations very tough and then again in unusual situations intimidated in surprising ways.
This incident was quite unique and difficult to know what happened inside heads of these cats. Whatever has happened before or happens later is one thing, but this kind of 2-1 confrontation looks like to be quite rare. First time I have seen photos or video about this kind of case so it´s pretty impossible to say if siblings usually hold their ground like these two. it was interesting to notice how siblings watched each others at one point like checking if backup is there.
As usual, unique and "not seen before" animal behavior creates somewhat same and somewhat different thoughts what happened and why. Maybe with time something more can be learned.
11-01-2020, 03:33 AM( This post was last modified: 11-01-2020, 03:40 AM by Shadow )
(11-01-2020, 03:26 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(11-01-2020, 02:28 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(11-01-2020, 02:18 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(11-01-2020, 02:05 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(11-01-2020, 01:32 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(10-31-2020, 11:53 PM)Shadow Wrote:
(10-31-2020, 08:34 PM)Balam Wrote: @Pckts the JID told me that Juru had last been seen on September in the area, the fires could have driven him away, but with so many large males found within the same distance I doubt that he will be able to return to claim a sizeable territory.
I also agree with you that Edno was trying to be relatively delicate with the female as he probably wanted to mate, my guess is that if there would have been a larger and more threatening male (i.e. Balam), both of them would've had a more tenacious battle. Nonetheless, kudos to the female for standing up and eventually making Edno lose interest in pursuing her.
2-1 situation alone can be confusing and a bit intimidating for solitary cat used to fight only 1-1 what comes to own species. When neither of the siblings didn´t back off and flee, Edno had to be all the time careful with both. Lions are after all only big cats used to fight against multiple opponents and still only in rare cases some lions have made a move against more than one opponent simultaneously, when facing own species. This kind of situation can be speculated in many ways, but this isn´t something what jaguars are used to. It can be, that Edno was quite surprised when both jaguars held their ground when he approached and both aggressive towards him.
Edno was the only Cat being the aggressor, both the siblings were submissive the whole time.
Obviously Edno made the offensive move. Point is, that siblings didn´t back off, but held their ground. So Edno had to be aware and careful all the time, one mistake and he could have been attacked from two directions and injured. That is something what jaguars aren´t used to. In the end it was Edno leaving and siblings staying. That kind of situation could be very confusing to any jaguar so I don´t think that Edno was "soft", he just faced something surprising and didn´t know how to handle it.
I think you're making more out of it than there was.
Edno dictated the interaction every time, the siblings did nothing other than wait and submit. Also Edno isn't going anywhere, I will guarantee it the 2 youngsters that leave not far before he does.
Well, people who saw this said, that Edno left, not siblings. Guide told that Edno ran away and this person who took photos also said, that Edno left, not siblings. I think, that they know what they saw. But you are free to have your opinion of course, I don´t mind.
Where are you reading that Edno ran away, let alone was being chased off?
Like I said, they will leave the Meeting of the 3 rivers not Edno, you can almost guarantee it.
I didn´t write, that it was chased off. You can check my posting if you misunderstood something. Guide who filmed this incident on video wrote, that Edno ran away. You can of course guarantee things, but I have been writing about this confrontation and what happened there. What happens in future is another thing. Big cats have been backing off to come back later, it´s not something never seen before. Being intimidated or confused at one moment doesn´t mean some "decisive loss". But it´s good to remember, that Edno, even though big and impressive, is an jaguar. Sometimes situations can be so surprising that it doesn´t know how to handle it and it has to back off. There is a video showing how one dhole manages to make a big male leopard to run away full speed, so I don´t see anything extraordinary in it, that big male jaguar doesn´t want to try his luck all the way with two smaller jaguars if not absolutely necessary.
(10-31-2020, 08:34 PM)Balam Wrote: @Pckts the JID told me that Juru had last been seen on September in the area, the fires could have driven him away, but with so many large males found within the same distance I doubt that he will be able to return to claim a sizeable territory.
I also agree with you that Edno was trying to be relatively delicate with the female as he probably wanted to mate, my guess is that if there would have been a larger and more threatening male (i.e. Balam), both of them would've had a more tenacious battle. Nonetheless, kudos to the female for standing up and eventually making Edno lose interest in pursuing her.
2-1 situation alone can be confusing and a bit intimidating for solitary cat used to fight only 1-1 what comes to own species. When neither of the siblings didn´t back off and flee, Edno had to be all the time careful with both. Lions are after all only big cats used to fight against multiple opponents and still only in rare cases some lions have made a move against more than one opponent simultaneously, when facing own species. This kind of situation can be speculated in many ways, but this isn´t something what jaguars are used to. It can be, that Edno was quite surprised when both jaguars held their ground when he approached and both aggressive towards him.
Edno was the only Cat being the aggressor, both the siblings were submissive the whole time.
Obviously Edno made the offensive move. Point is, that siblings didn´t back off, but held their ground. So Edno had to be aware and careful all the time, one mistake and he could have been attacked from two directions and injured. That is something what jaguars aren´t used to. In the end it was Edno leaving and siblings staying. That kind of situation could be very confusing to any jaguar so I don´t think that Edno was "soft", he just faced something surprising and didn´t know how to handle it.
I think you're making more out of it than there was.
Edno dictated the interaction every time, the siblings did nothing other than wait and submit. Also Edno isn't going anywhere, I will guarantee it the 2 youngsters that leave not far before he does.
Well, people who saw this said, that Edno left, not siblings. Guide told that Edno ran away and this person who took photos also said, that Edno left, not siblings. I think, that they know what they saw. But you are free to have your opinion of course, I don´t mind.
Where are you reading that Edno ran away, let alone was being chased off?
Like I said, they will leave the Meeting of the 3 rivers not Edno, you can almost guarantee it.
I didn´t write, that it was chased off. You can check my posting if you misunderstood something. Guide who filmed this incident on video wrote, that Edno ran away. You can of course guarantee things, but I have been writing about this confrontation and what happened there. What happens in future is another thing. Big cats have been backing off to come back later, it´s not something never seen before. Being intimidated or confused at one moment doesn´t mean some "decisive loss". But it´s good to remember, that Edno, even though big and impressive is an jaguar, sometimes situations can be so surprising that it doesn´t know how to handle it and it has to back off. There is a video showing how one dhole manages to make a big male leopard to run away full speed, so I don´t see anything extraordinary in it, that big male jaguar doesn´t want to try his luck with two smaller jaguars if not absolutely necessary.
11-01-2020, 03:42 AM( This post was last modified: 11-01-2020, 03:43 AM by Shadow )
(11-01-2020, 03:40 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(11-01-2020, 03:33 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(11-01-2020, 03:26 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(11-01-2020, 02:28 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(11-01-2020, 02:18 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(11-01-2020, 02:05 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(11-01-2020, 01:32 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(10-31-2020, 11:53 PM)Shadow Wrote:
(10-31-2020, 08:34 PM)Balam Wrote: @Pckts the JID told me that Juru had last been seen on September in the area, the fires could have driven him away, but with so many large males found within the same distance I doubt that he will be able to return to claim a sizeable territory.
I also agree with you that Edno was trying to be relatively delicate with the female as he probably wanted to mate, my guess is that if there would have been a larger and more threatening male (i.e. Balam), both of them would've had a more tenacious battle. Nonetheless, kudos to the female for standing up and eventually making Edno lose interest in pursuing her.
2-1 situation alone can be confusing and a bit intimidating for solitary cat used to fight only 1-1 what comes to own species. When neither of the siblings didn´t back off and flee, Edno had to be all the time careful with both. Lions are after all only big cats used to fight against multiple opponents and still only in rare cases some lions have made a move against more than one opponent simultaneously, when facing own species. This kind of situation can be speculated in many ways, but this isn´t something what jaguars are used to. It can be, that Edno was quite surprised when both jaguars held their ground when he approached and both aggressive towards him.
Edno was the only Cat being the aggressor, both the siblings were submissive the whole time.
Obviously Edno made the offensive move. Point is, that siblings didn´t back off, but held their ground. So Edno had to be aware and careful all the time, one mistake and he could have been attacked from two directions and injured. That is something what jaguars aren´t used to. In the end it was Edno leaving and siblings staying. That kind of situation could be very confusing to any jaguar so I don´t think that Edno was "soft", he just faced something surprising and didn´t know how to handle it.
I think you're making more out of it than there was.
Edno dictated the interaction every time, the siblings did nothing other than wait and submit. Also Edno isn't going anywhere, I will guarantee it the 2 youngsters that leave not far before he does.
Well, people who saw this said, that Edno left, not siblings. Guide told that Edno ran away and this person who took photos also said, that Edno left, not siblings. I think, that they know what they saw. But you are free to have your opinion of course, I don´t mind.
Where are you reading that Edno ran away, let alone was being chased off?
Like I said, they will leave the Meeting of the 3 rivers not Edno, you can almost guarantee it.
I didn´t write, that it was chased off. You can check my posting if you misunderstood something. Guide who filmed this incident on video wrote, that Edno ran away. You can of course guarantee things, but I have been writing about this confrontation and what happened there. What happens in future is another thing. Big cats have been backing off to come back later, it´s not something never seen before. Being intimidated or confused at one moment doesn´t mean some "decisive loss". But it´s good to remember, that Edno, even though big and impressive is an jaguar, sometimes situations can be so surprising that it doesn´t know how to handle it and it has to back off. There is a video showing how one dhole manages to make a big male leopard to run away full speed, so I don´t see anything extraordinary in it, that big male jaguar doesn´t want to try his luck with two smaller jaguars if not absolutely necessary.
Where are you seeing someone say he "ran off?"
Not someone, the guide who filmed this. He wrote in Instagram.
(10-31-2020, 08:34 PM)Balam Wrote: @Pckts the JID told me that Juru had last been seen on September in the area, the fires could have driven him away, but with so many large males found within the same distance I doubt that he will be able to return to claim a sizeable territory.
I also agree with you that Edno was trying to be relatively delicate with the female as he probably wanted to mate, my guess is that if there would have been a larger and more threatening male (i.e. Balam), both of them would've had a more tenacious battle. Nonetheless, kudos to the female for standing up and eventually making Edno lose interest in pursuing her.
2-1 situation alone can be confusing and a bit intimidating for solitary cat used to fight only 1-1 what comes to own species. When neither of the siblings didn´t back off and flee, Edno had to be all the time careful with both. Lions are after all only big cats used to fight against multiple opponents and still only in rare cases some lions have made a move against more than one opponent simultaneously, when facing own species. This kind of situation can be speculated in many ways, but this isn´t something what jaguars are used to. It can be, that Edno was quite surprised when both jaguars held their ground when he approached and both aggressive towards him.
Edno was the only Cat being the aggressor, both the siblings were submissive the whole time.
Obviously Edno made the offensive move. Point is, that siblings didn´t back off, but held their ground. So Edno had to be aware and careful all the time, one mistake and he could have been attacked from two directions and injured. That is something what jaguars aren´t used to. In the end it was Edno leaving and siblings staying. That kind of situation could be very confusing to any jaguar so I don´t think that Edno was "soft", he just faced something surprising and didn´t know how to handle it.
I think you're making more out of it than there was.
Edno dictated the interaction every time, the siblings did nothing other than wait and submit. Also Edno isn't going anywhere, I will guarantee it the 2 youngsters that leave not far before he does.
Well, people who saw this said, that Edno left, not siblings. Guide told that Edno ran away and this person who took photos also said, that Edno left, not siblings. I think, that they know what they saw. But you are free to have your opinion of course, I don´t mind.
Where are you reading that Edno ran away, let alone was being chased off?
Like I said, they will leave the Meeting of the 3 rivers not Edno, you can almost guarantee it.
I didn´t write, that it was chased off. You can check my posting if you misunderstood something. Guide who filmed this incident on video wrote, that Edno ran away. You can of course guarantee things, but I have been writing about this confrontation and what happened there. What happens in future is another thing. Big cats have been backing off to come back later, it´s not something never seen before. Being intimidated or confused at one moment doesn´t mean some "decisive loss". But it´s good to remember, that Edno, even though big and impressive is an jaguar, sometimes situations can be so surprising that it doesn´t know how to handle it and it has to back off. There is a video showing how one dhole manages to make a big male leopard to run away full speed, so I don´t see anything extraordinary in it, that big male jaguar doesn´t want to try his luck with two smaller jaguars if not absolutely necessary.
Where are you seeing someone say he "ran off?"
Not someone, the guide who filmed this. He wrote in Instagram.
(10-31-2020, 11:53 PM)Shadow Wrote: 2-1 situation alone can be confusing and a bit intimidating for solitary cat used to fight only 1-1 what comes to own species. When neither of the siblings didn´t back off and flee, Edno had to be all the time careful with both. Lions are after all only big cats used to fight against multiple opponents and still only in rare cases some lions have made a move against more than one opponent simultaneously, when facing own species. This kind of situation can be speculated in many ways, but this isn´t something what jaguars are used to. It can be, that Edno was quite surprised when both jaguars held their ground when he approached and both aggressive towards him.
Edno was the only Cat being the aggressor, both the siblings were submissive the whole time.
Obviously Edno made the offensive move. Point is, that siblings didn´t back off, but held their ground. So Edno had to be aware and careful all the time, one mistake and he could have been attacked from two directions and injured. That is something what jaguars aren´t used to. In the end it was Edno leaving and siblings staying. That kind of situation could be very confusing to any jaguar so I don´t think that Edno was "soft", he just faced something surprising and didn´t know how to handle it.
I think you're making more out of it than there was.
Edno dictated the interaction every time, the siblings did nothing other than wait and submit. Also Edno isn't going anywhere, I will guarantee it the 2 youngsters that leave not far before he does.
Well, people who saw this said, that Edno left, not siblings. Guide told that Edno ran away and this person who took photos also said, that Edno left, not siblings. I think, that they know what they saw. But you are free to have your opinion of course, I don´t mind.
Where are you reading that Edno ran away, let alone was being chased off?
Like I said, they will leave the Meeting of the 3 rivers not Edno, you can almost guarantee it.
I didn´t write, that it was chased off. You can check my posting if you misunderstood something. Guide who filmed this incident on video wrote, that Edno ran away. You can of course guarantee things, but I have been writing about this confrontation and what happened there. What happens in future is another thing. Big cats have been backing off to come back later, it´s not something never seen before. Being intimidated or confused at one moment doesn´t mean some "decisive loss". But it´s good to remember, that Edno, even though big and impressive is an jaguar, sometimes situations can be so surprising that it doesn´t know how to handle it and it has to back off. There is a video showing how one dhole manages to make a big male leopard to run away full speed, so I don´t see anything extraordinary in it, that big male jaguar doesn´t want to try his luck with two smaller jaguars if not absolutely necessary.
Where are you seeing someone say he "ran off?"
Not someone, the guide who filmed this. He wrote in Instagram.
(11-01-2020, 01:32 AM)Pckts Wrote: Edno was the only Cat being the aggressor, both the siblings were submissive the whole time.
Obviously Edno made the offensive move. Point is, that siblings didn´t back off, but held their ground. So Edno had to be aware and careful all the time, one mistake and he could have been attacked from two directions and injured. That is something what jaguars aren´t used to. In the end it was Edno leaving and siblings staying. That kind of situation could be very confusing to any jaguar so I don´t think that Edno was "soft", he just faced something surprising and didn´t know how to handle it.
I think you're making more out of it than there was.
Edno dictated the interaction every time, the siblings did nothing other than wait and submit. Also Edno isn't going anywhere, I will guarantee it the 2 youngsters that leave not far before he does.
Well, people who saw this said, that Edno left, not siblings. Guide told that Edno ran away and this person who took photos also said, that Edno left, not siblings. I think, that they know what they saw. But you are free to have your opinion of course, I don´t mind.
Where are you reading that Edno ran away, let alone was being chased off?
Like I said, they will leave the Meeting of the 3 rivers not Edno, you can almost guarantee it.
I didn´t write, that it was chased off. You can check my posting if you misunderstood something. Guide who filmed this incident on video wrote, that Edno ran away. You can of course guarantee things, but I have been writing about this confrontation and what happened there. What happens in future is another thing. Big cats have been backing off to come back later, it´s not something never seen before. Being intimidated or confused at one moment doesn´t mean some "decisive loss". But it´s good to remember, that Edno, even though big and impressive is an jaguar, sometimes situations can be so surprising that it doesn´t know how to handle it and it has to back off. There is a video showing how one dhole manages to make a big male leopard to run away full speed, so I don´t see anything extraordinary in it, that big male jaguar doesn´t want to try his luck with two smaller jaguars if not absolutely necessary.
Where are you seeing someone say he "ran off?"
Not someone, the guide who filmed this. He wrote in Instagram.
Where is the ig post?
In instagram, you need to read comment section.
I am, which is why I'm asking you where you see it because I don't.
(11-01-2020, 02:05 AM)Shadow Wrote: Obviously Edno made the offensive move. Point is, that siblings didn´t back off, but held their ground. So Edno had to be aware and careful all the time, one mistake and he could have been attacked from two directions and injured. That is something what jaguars aren´t used to. In the end it was Edno leaving and siblings staying. That kind of situation could be very confusing to any jaguar so I don´t think that Edno was "soft", he just faced something surprising and didn´t know how to handle it.
I think you're making more out of it than there was.
Edno dictated the interaction every time, the siblings did nothing other than wait and submit. Also Edno isn't going anywhere, I will guarantee it the 2 youngsters that leave not far before he does.
Well, people who saw this said, that Edno left, not siblings. Guide told that Edno ran away and this person who took photos also said, that Edno left, not siblings. I think, that they know what they saw. But you are free to have your opinion of course, I don´t mind.
Where are you reading that Edno ran away, let alone was being chased off?
Like I said, they will leave the Meeting of the 3 rivers not Edno, you can almost guarantee it.
I didn´t write, that it was chased off. You can check my posting if you misunderstood something. Guide who filmed this incident on video wrote, that Edno ran away. You can of course guarantee things, but I have been writing about this confrontation and what happened there. What happens in future is another thing. Big cats have been backing off to come back later, it´s not something never seen before. Being intimidated or confused at one moment doesn´t mean some "decisive loss". But it´s good to remember, that Edno, even though big and impressive is an jaguar, sometimes situations can be so surprising that it doesn´t know how to handle it and it has to back off. There is a video showing how one dhole manages to make a big male leopard to run away full speed, so I don´t see anything extraordinary in it, that big male jaguar doesn´t want to try his luck with two smaller jaguars if not absolutely necessary.
Where are you seeing someone say he "ran off?"
Not someone, the guide who filmed this. He wrote in Instagram.
Where is the ig post?
In instagram, you need to read comment section.
I am, which is why I'm asking you where you see it because I don't.
(11-01-2020, 02:18 AM)Pckts Wrote: I think you're making more out of it than there was.
Edno dictated the interaction every time, the siblings did nothing other than wait and submit. Also Edno isn't going anywhere, I will guarantee it the 2 youngsters that leave not far before he does.
Well, people who saw this said, that Edno left, not siblings. Guide told that Edno ran away and this person who took photos also said, that Edno left, not siblings. I think, that they know what they saw. But you are free to have your opinion of course, I don´t mind.
Where are you reading that Edno ran away, let alone was being chased off?
Like I said, they will leave the Meeting of the 3 rivers not Edno, you can almost guarantee it.
I didn´t write, that it was chased off. You can check my posting if you misunderstood something. Guide who filmed this incident on video wrote, that Edno ran away. You can of course guarantee things, but I have been writing about this confrontation and what happened there. What happens in future is another thing. Big cats have been backing off to come back later, it´s not something never seen before. Being intimidated or confused at one moment doesn´t mean some "decisive loss". But it´s good to remember, that Edno, even though big and impressive is an jaguar, sometimes situations can be so surprising that it doesn´t know how to handle it and it has to back off. There is a video showing how one dhole manages to make a big male leopard to run away full speed, so I don´t see anything extraordinary in it, that big male jaguar doesn´t want to try his luck with two smaller jaguars if not absolutely necessary.
Where are you seeing someone say he "ran off?"
Not someone, the guide who filmed this. He wrote in Instagram.
Where is the ig post?
In instagram, you need to read comment section.
I am, which is why I'm asking you where you see it because I don't.
Ya, I know. And I see the comment section with comments in Portuguese. I don't see where he claims that Edno ran off hence why I'm asking where he does. Maybe I have to wait for a translation on a pc or Balam can assist.
Jaguars of Brazil - Dynamics,Lifestyle,Datas,Studies,Reports
