There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
--- Peter Broekhuijsen ---

  • 3 Vote(s) - 4.33 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines

Venezuela epaiva Online
Moderator
*****
Moderators

(07-22-2021, 04:14 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(07-22-2021, 06:06 AM)epaiva Wrote:
(07-22-2021, 05:31 AM)tigerluver Wrote:
(06-07-2021, 02:42 AM)LoveAnimals Wrote: @tigerluver

I've read a study that estimated the body mass of two speciments of Ngandong Tuger and Smilodon Populator, the result was 486 kg and 517 kg for the largest speciments of the species.

Even though it's only an estimate, are these two cats truly esrimated to be that heavy on max size? That puts them on the same level of today's bears (also average polar bear) except for max sizes since kodiaks and polars can exceed 700 kg


My apologies for missing this. That paper used a lot of bone width so could be a bit overestimated but 400+ kg is fair. Yes, this is possible as their frames were very large. There are two ways to grow in weight, increase girth of the torso or length of the torso. The length of torso is what cats increased and it adds on weight very fast, perhaps even quicker than girth increases.

(07-22-2021, 04:33 AM)Acinonyx sp. Wrote: @tigerluver 

Are there any body length estimates for the smilodon species?


I do not believe so. They were quite a bit shorter in anteroposterior length for their shoulder height compared to extant cats, S. fatalis especially so. @epaiva I believe has a communication where the museum tells him the body length of the S. fatalis in their collection and hopefully he can kindly share.

Acinonyx sp.
Smilodon fatalis has a head and body length of 1,70 mts and a height at the shoulders of 1 mt
I wonder what the additional skin, flesh and muscle add to the measurements?
I would like to know that information too, i think  @“tigerluver” can give us that valuable information
2 users Like epaiva's post
Reply

United States Pckts Online
Bigcat Enthusiast
******

(07-22-2021, 06:02 PM)epaiva Wrote:
(07-22-2021, 04:14 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(07-22-2021, 06:06 AM)epaiva Wrote:
(07-22-2021, 05:31 AM)tigerluver Wrote:
(06-07-2021, 02:42 AM)LoveAnimals Wrote: @tigerluver

I've read a study that estimated the body mass of two speciments of Ngandong Tuger and Smilodon Populator, the result was 486 kg and 517 kg for the largest speciments of the species.

Even though it's only an estimate, are these two cats truly esrimated to be that heavy on max size? That puts them on the same level of today's bears (also average polar bear) except for max sizes since kodiaks and polars can exceed 700 kg


My apologies for missing this. That paper used a lot of bone width so could be a bit overestimated but 400+ kg is fair. Yes, this is possible as their frames were very large. There are two ways to grow in weight, increase girth of the torso or length of the torso. The length of torso is what cats increased and it adds on weight very fast, perhaps even quicker than girth increases.

(07-22-2021, 04:33 AM)Acinonyx sp. Wrote: @tigerluver 

Are there any body length estimates for the smilodon species?


I do not believe so. They were quite a bit shorter in anteroposterior length for their shoulder height compared to extant cats, S. fatalis especially so. @epaiva I believe has a communication where the museum tells him the body length of the S. fatalis in their collection and hopefully he can kindly share.

Acinonyx sp.
Smilodon fatalis has a head and body length of 1,70 mts and a height at the shoulders of 1 mt
I wonder what the additional skin, flesh and muscle add to the measurements?
I would like to know that information too, i think  @“tigerluver” can give us that valuable information
My guess would be that with the addition of skin and flesh we’d have a standard sized Lion/Tiger body measurement. Probably a little taller at the shoulder than while a little shorter in the body.
2 users Like Pckts's post
Reply

tigerluver Online
Prehistoric Feline Expert
*****
Moderators

(07-22-2021, 04:14 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(07-22-2021, 06:06 AM)epaiva Wrote:
(07-22-2021, 05:31 AM)tigerluver Wrote:
(06-07-2021, 02:42 AM)LoveAnimals Wrote: @tigerluver

I've read a study that estimated the body mass of two speciments of Ngandong Tuger and Smilodon Populator, the result was 486 kg and 517 kg for the largest speciments of the species.

Even though it's only an estimate, are these two cats truly esrimated to be that heavy on max size? That puts them on the same level of today's bears (also average polar bear) except for max sizes since kodiaks and polars can exceed 700 kg


My apologies for missing this. That paper used a lot of bone width so could be a bit overestimated but 400+ kg is fair. Yes, this is possible as their frames were very large. There are two ways to grow in weight, increase girth of the torso or length of the torso. The length of torso is what cats increased and it adds on weight very fast, perhaps even quicker than girth increases.

(07-22-2021, 04:33 AM)Acinonyx sp. Wrote: @tigerluver 

Are there any body length estimates for the smilodon species?


I do not believe so. They were quite a bit shorter in anteroposterior length for their shoulder height compared to extant cats, S. fatalis especially so. @epaiva I believe has a communication where the museum tells him the body length of the S. fatalis in their collection and hopefully he can kindly share.

Acinonyx sp.
Smilodon fatalis has a head and body length of 1,70 mts and a height at the shoulders of 1 mt
I wonder what the additional skin, flesh and muscle add to the measurements?


S. fatalis was really short in the body. The the scapula bone very superficial so not much height needs to be added. For the length, not much has to be added either as the pelvis is superficial, so just a little for the anterior head. Based on my reconstruction of the largest humerus I got a height of about 1.05 meters and a length of about 1.6 m in the flesh.
4 users Like tigerluver's post
Reply

Venezuela epaiva Online
Moderator
*****
Moderators

Skeleton (top) and reconstructed life appearance of Smilodon fatalis. Shoulder height 100 cm.
Taken from the book Sabertooth - Mauricio Anton 

*This image is copyright of its original author
4 users Like epaiva's post
Reply

Italy LoveAnimals Offline
Animal Enthusiast
***

(07-22-2021, 05:31 AM)tigerluver Wrote: My apologies for missing this.
Don't worry it's alright, thanks for answering!

I never understood actually the real shoulder height of smilodon populator actually, some say 120 cm, others even 140 cm and Roman the one who designs models for prehistoric fauna claims a shoulder height of 130 cm. If the frame of Smilodon is so big to allow it exceeding 400 kg and perhaps approaching or reaching 500 kg, shouldn't it be at least 120 cm?
2 users Like LoveAnimals's post
Reply

Venezuela epaiva Online
Moderator
*****
Moderators

Smilodon populator was a lot larger than Smilodon fatalis, yes it measured 120 cm at the shoulders and was very powerful 
Pictures taken from the book Sabertooth (Mauricio Anton)

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author
3 users Like epaiva's post
Reply

Venezuela epaiva Online
Moderator
*****
Moderators

Credit to @paleontology_id

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author
3 users Like epaiva's post
Reply

Maldives AtroxKing Offline
New Join

(06-23-2014, 11:02 PM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote: How about the Duisburg specimen? Could he be a modern genetic twin of the Wanhsien tiger?

It is interesting to see so many modern incarnations of the prehistoric tigers.
What weight would you give for Natodomeri lion, having a 460mm skull?
2 users Like AtroxKing's post
Reply

United States GrizzlyClaws Offline
Canine Expert
*****
Moderators

(08-17-2021, 07:53 PM)AtroxKing Wrote:
(06-23-2014, 11:02 PM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote: How about the Duisburg specimen? Could he be a modern genetic twin of the Wanhsien tiger?

It is interesting to see so many modern incarnations of the prehistoric tigers.
What weight would you give for Natodomeri lion, having a 460mm skull?

From my own impression, they should have weighed about 350 - 400 kg for those really large males, maybe with very few exceptional freak specimens that could push above 400 kg.
Reply

Italy LoveAnimals Offline
Animal Enthusiast
***

@tigerluver

What is the max shoulder height for Ngandong tiger? Up to 125 cm?
1 user Likes LoveAnimals's post
Reply






Users browsing this thread:
4 Guest(s)

About Us
Go Social     Subscribe  

Welcome to WILDFACT forum, a website that focuses on sharing the joy that wildlife has on offer. We welcome all wildlife lovers to join us in sharing that joy. As a member you can share your research, knowledge and experience on animals with the community.
wildfact.com is intended to serve as an online resource for wildlife lovers of all skill levels from beginners to professionals and from all fields that belong to wildlife anyhow. Our focus area is wild animals from all over world. Content generated here will help showcase the work of wildlife experts and lovers to the world. We believe by the help of your informative article and content we will succeed to educate the world, how these beautiful animals are important to survival of all man kind.
Many thanks for visiting wildfact.com. We hope you will keep visiting wildfact regularly and will refer other members who have passion for wildlife.

Forum software by © MyBB