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Debate and Discussion about Wild Animals
Eyes on or hands on? A discussion of human interference
Eyes on or hands on? A discussion of human interference
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Eyes on or hands on? A discussion of human interference
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You are right Sanjay. Back to posting relevent info to the thread.
I found this interesting and positive by PannaRadar net protects tigers and keeps them neighbourly
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22...Iyg9XszquA 
They need to employ this technology throughout wildlife reserves worldwide
Since my response to No jags dying from radio collars was removed, I will post the account again here
"But the 16-year-old cat, perhaps the oldest jaguar ever documented in the wild, faltered from his stressful encounter with humans. After 12 days, he was recaptured and euthanized based on a diagnosis of kidney failure." http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2...stery.html
Packer discussing the benefits of Camera Traps over Radio Collaring
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...m8XIRo8b-s @41:00 or so. Using "screenshot Serengeti" they were able to identify 4 million + images, get confirmation on each image from 10 different people who all had to agree on the animal identity and from this they were able to accurately estimate all animal species shot in a entire african range with over 220 cameras used. Very interesting listen 
Those that states that tigers "suffer" or "died" from radiocollars are just saying paranoid words and nonsenses.
Those who want to know the TRUTH about radiocollared tigers, please read these SCIENTIFIC documents from REAL studies on radiocollared tigers. Here is the list: [*]Sukumar. 1990. The Nagarhole tiger controversy. [*]Majumder & Yadav. 2014. A Suggested Protocol for Radio-Telemetry Studies on Tiger (Panthera tigris L.). [*]Barlow. 2008. Collaring Tigers for Conservation. [*]Kreeger. (no date). Chemical Capture of Free-Ranging Felids. [*]Smith et al. 1983. A technique for capturing and immobilizing tigers. [*]Miller et al. 2010. Review of research methodologies for tigers: Telemetry. [*]Chundawat & Malik. 2010. Beeping tigers: A reliable way of understanding tiger Biology, Ecology and behaviour. To ALL posters, please READ the attached documents. Then you will know the TRUTH. What is happening in Kanha and Tadoba, with tigers been radiocollared for tourists, is NOT the norm, but a bad use of an excellent (if not the best) scientific tool to understand the wild tigers. I will say it again, you can blame the user of a tool, but not the tool itself, that is an irresponsible way to get an opinion about something. I am not going to waste more words with people that exaggerate and/or lie to present a point. Here is the evidence, there you go... Good day to all. [img]http://wildfact.com/forum/images/attachtypes/pdf.gif" class="lozad max-img-size" alt="" title=""> *This image is copyright of its original author 720_A suggested protcol for - Radio telemtry studies on tiger.pdf (Size: 1.83 MB / Downloads: 1) *This image is copyright of its original author 1990 Sukumar Nagarhole Tiger Current Science.pdf (Size: 1.45 MB / Downloads: 1)*This image is copyright of its original author Chemical Capture of Free-Ranging Felids.pdf (Size: 675.77 KB / Downloads: 1)*This image is copyright of its original author collaring-for-conservation-v10.pdf (Size: 637.91 KB / Downloads: 0)*This image is copyright of its original author IZ_Miller_TigerTelemetry_2010.pdf (Size: 642.69 KB / Downloads: 0)*This image is copyright of its original author Nepal Tiger Weights.pdf (Size: 534.5 KB / Downloads: 0)*This image is copyright of its original author Radiocollared tigers in Panna.pdf (Size: 1.5 MB / Downloads: 0)
Q: “I have seen news reports that radio collaring in tigers affects mating? How true is that?” Asked by Kishore K
Answer from Dr. K. Ullas Karanth, Wildlife Conservation Society (WCS): Radio-collars have been in use since the 1960s on a variety of animals ranging in size from small birds to whales..tigers included. When professionally done it does not interfere with the normal activities of the animals. Over a 100 wild tigers have been fitted with radio-collars since the 1970s and no adverse effects on mating or reproduction have been observed. I have personally observed radio-collared tigers mating without a problem. So the news reports are not founded on facts. Of course, if the collar is not fitted properly it could cause problems and interfere with the activities of animals. Source: http://www.conservationindia.org/ask-ci/...ue-is-that
Another scientific book:
 *This image is copyright of its original author From more than 60 tigers captured in Nepal, only two died, one from an accident and the other was already old and in bad shape. That means that less than 4% died and that the technique used in Nepal, which was less modern than that of Nagarahole, Panna and new areas, was successful.
This article is MANDATORY, from Dr Luke Hunter, President of PANTHERA, an organization that is specifically created to PROTECT the great cats:
Panthera Statement on the Perceived Threats of Collaring Jaguars  *This image is copyright of its original author Dr. Howard Quigley, Panthera’s Jaguar Program Executive Director, and Dr. Luke Hunter, Panthera’s President, collar a jaguar in the Brazilian Pantanal. It is unfortunate that rumours and misconceptions exist about Panthera’s jaguar research program in the Pantanal. In Brazil, we work under the guidance of our partners, the Brazilian statutory conservation authority CENAP and the leading Brazilian carnivore conservation NGO Procarnivoros. CENAP reviews and approves all proposed research activities, while the scientists of both CENAP and Procarnivoros work closely with Panthera scientists on the ground to maintain the highest standards of safety and scientific rigour.The most egregious rumour that requires immediate correction is that radio-collars have caused deaths of jaguars. This is absolutely incorrect; no jaguars have died or been harmed by our radio-collaring. We are aware of a large male who was photographed with what appeared to be injuries under the collar. Panthera scientists examined the photos and could find no evidence of injuries; it is often the case that fur under the collar looks dirty which might explain the false impression. The same cat was later observed by guides who reported he ‘looked better’ and speculated that perhaps the cat’s neck had been swollen after a fight when first photographed (although we do not know this to be the case; the cat was clearly in excellent health in the photographs we examined).  *This image is copyright of its original author o Noca (pronounced no-sa), shown here, is the first female jaguar collared and monitored by Panthera through the Pantanal Jaguar Project. This photo shows Noca laying near a river in the Brazilian Pantanal one year after her collaring. Over the past year, Panthera’s scientists have monitored Noca’s movements and behavior, which have proven her to be healthy, reproductively receptive and active. Click here to learn more about Noca’s movements since her collaring. The pattern of blaming radio-collaring for deaths is one we have experienced in our projects around the world. In part, we believe this stems from the fact that the radio-collars allow us to find dead cats, whereas prior to collaring they simply disappeared. In the minds of some observers, the connection between documenting jaguar deaths and the presence of collars means the two are related; “the jaguars must be dying because of the collars!” No, they are dying of all the causes jaguars usually die- a combination mostly of natural factors and persecution by cattle-owners- but the collars now provide a window into understanding those causes.It is important to understand why we radio-collar wild cats. In the Pantanal, our chief objective is to better document the extent to which jaguars create conflict with cattle ranchers. Nearly 80% of the Pantanal is used for cattle-ranching and jaguars do prey upon cattle. However, local ranchers often blame jaguars for almost all deaths of cattle in the field and many react by widespread killing of cats. Radio-collaring is the only technique that produces the robust science we need to quantify the actual losses of cattle as well as an estimate of how many jaguars are illegally killed. Armed with that information, we can experiment with changes in cattle husbandry- such as the use of electric fences, ‘herd-guarding’ buffalo, corralling young, vulnerable calves and so on- to demonstrate to reluctant cattle-ranchers which techniques truly help to reduce their losses. By doing so, we hope to reduce ranchers’ motivation to kill jaguars and foster their tolerance for jaguars. If we succeed, jaguars will be better off on cattle ranches.  *This image is copyright of its original author A camera trap photo of a collared jaguar in the Brazilian Pantanal. It is simply not possible to get this information from viewing jaguars along the rivers or using camera-traps- remote-triggered cameras that photograph jaguars (and other wildlife) as they pass the camera. Both techniques are useful for providing some information on the numbers of jaguars, especially scientific camera-trapping which can furnish accurate density estimates. But they do not allow us to answer the key questions about jaguar-cattle conflict. Apart from limitations in the kind of data these techniques can produce, the worst jaguar-killers will not allow research on their ranches so there is no way to observe jaguars or place cameras on their properties. Our collars transmit data remotely so we are able to follow cats when they traverse such ranches; the collars even indicate when and where a cat has died so that, even if we are not allowed to examine a dead animal, we will have information on whether more cats are dying suddenly on ‘bad’ ranches. There is simply no way that watching jaguars on the river for a few hours each day can deliver the same kind of detailed information that is essential to address the killing of cats.Finally, it is erroneous to believe that the collars remain on for the life of a cat. Our collars are built with small integrated devices that trigger the collar to automatically drop-off after a pre-set period- up to 2 years. It means we do not have the capture the cat a second time to remove the collar.Panthera’s scientists have safely captured hundreds of cats of many species on every continent where cats occur. We place an absolute premium on the safety of cats and we have many decades of collective experience in ensuring that the process meets the highest possible safety standards. It is discouraging that we are often portrayed as ‘heartless scientists’ interested only in data, when in fact, every one of Panthera’s biologists works on wild cats because we treasure them deeply. By undertaking rigorous science, we hope to ensure their persistence so that future generations can also treasure them. Luke Hunter, PhD President PANTHERA Source: http://www.panthera.org/node/1564 The jaguar that died in North America was allready in bad shape and really old. The collar didn't kill it, just help to found its dead body. If you believe that Panthera, an organization with the only goal of protect and save from the extintion the great cats, is lying, then you have a BIG mental problem. [img]images/smilies/dodgy.gif[/img]
I have already posted a verified, confirmed account of a Jaguar dying from the collaring process. "But the 16-year-old cat, perhaps the oldest jaguar ever documented in the wild, faltered from his stressful encounter with humans. After 12 days, he was recaptured and euthanized based on a diagnosis of kidney failure."
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2...stery.html
And do I need to go through the amount of camera traps that are being used now, again?
Its weird how I post tons of accounts and you respond to none of them. You have the idea that "if a few die, they die" as long as most survive. That is the opposite of conservation, and since camera traps, gps, radar, sonar etc. All provide far better data than camera traps could ever do. Hence why they are the most commonly used technology in monitoring wild animals. http://news.mongabay.com/news-index/came...ping1.html http://www.siliconcitynews.com/?p=16497 another MASSIVE list of animals monitored by Camera traps from the WWF http://www.wwfindia.org/?7322/Camera-tra...ross-India Im sure you will simply disregard these, but this debate is done. Animals die during camera trapping, tigers die, get stressed, loose weight, get infections, etc. Whether its 5% or 100%, it doesn't matter... Its too much! Camera traps provide more info than a radio collar ever will. Monitoring a single individual is meaningless, camera traps can do the same yet provide information on the entire land scape. Hence why they are used far more, and successfully. (03-20-2015, 07:59 PM)'Pckts' Wrote: I have already posted a verified, confirmed account of a Jaguar dying from the collaring process. "But the 16-year-old cat, perhaps the oldest jaguar ever documented in the wild, faltered from his stressful encounter with humans. After 12 days, he was recaptured and euthanized based on a diagnosis of kidney failure."The jaguar was already old and sick, his illness was NOT the result from the capture. Why you don't show the entire case and only the pages that follow this sick idea that Scientists are "killing" animals for nothing??? (03-20-2015, 08:03 PM)'Pckts' Wrote: And do I need to go through the amount of camera traps that are being used now, again?What accounts? You are only posting news reports about the use of camera traps but NONE of them prove that they are more useful than the radiocollars. You lie simply because you are influenced by the ridiculous ideas that Scientists are bad people with hidden agendas, when in reality, they are the only one fighting to save the wild animals. I will like to see those "Photographers" risking they own lives saving the great cats, just like the real Scientists have done in many occasions. You are presenting a case with no base, stating that I (and the Scientists) are willing to "kill" animals for the sake of the knowledge, and this is NOT the case. I have presented more than five scientific documents with REAL data and you IGNORE them completely, this show how biased and evil are you. In fact, I think that your attitude against science DO have a hidden agenda. About the camera traps, Dr Luke Hunter made an excellent explanation that shows that your ideas are nonsenses: "It is simply not possible to get this information from viewing jaguars along the rivers or using camera-traps- remote-triggered cameras that photograph jaguars (and other wildlife) as they pass the camera. Both techniques are useful for providing some information on the numbers of jaguars, especially scientific camera-trapping which can furnish accurate density estimates. But they do not allow us to answer the key questions about jaguar-cattle conflict. Apart from limitations in the kind of data these techniques can produce, the worst jaguar-killers will not allow research on their ranches so there is no way to observe jaguars or place cameras on their properties." Did I need to say more? Obviously not. You are wrong Pckts, and you are spreading lies against the Science, SHAME on you. 
The 'debate' on collars and biologists has been concluded. PC was warned and is now enjoying a nice vacation.
For those interested in debates and insult: Read the addition in the thread on forum rules and do it well. All staff members apologize to those who felt insulted as a result of the exchange. On behalf of the owners and the mods, Peter.
I am "warned" when he calls me a "liar?"
Yet I have posted actual accounts of animals dying during the collaring process or the sedation process or infection, etc. Please read the post in the forum rules thread, this is directly what I am speaking about. Gaute says this "You lie simply because you are influenced by the ridiculous ideas that Scientists are bad people with hidden agendas" Which I am obviously not lying, hence the actual accounts posted. I never call him a "liar" "hippie" "paranoid" etc. But yet I get warned? I am certainly NOT a liar. I have proven to you guys time in and time out. Sanjay requested proof of my verification, I provided it. He didn't ask this of any one else, but I still gave it to him because I am NOT a liar. Its disrespectful to say this to somebody, especially if they have gone above and beyond when using accounts, eye witness statements, etc. And Gaute, there are 7 other pages all with many scientist, Packer for one! Stating the opposite about Camera traps. But you ignore those? I would never discredit any scientist or naturalist that devotes their life to this study and I never have. Not agreeing with some of their means of collecting data has nothing to do with "hidden agendas" or saying they are "bad people"
The dispute ends here. My advice is to graduate in dragons first before approaching a wild one with a sword only. Didn't you know their fire will melt iron?
I send you a pm and and added a few remarks in the thread on rules. We could continue over there, but I propose to drop it as not very interested. The advice is to respect the rules and refrain from playing the mods. Most of us may seem to be be interested in the solitary tiger foremost, but remember we act as a brotherhood when one is in trouble. I reconsidered my position. You can continue, but the advice is to stay out of trouble. This forum is about good info and good debates. Treat your opponent in a way you would appreciate yourself in real life and see what you can achieve from there. We want to make this forum work. Out. |
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